Ironmanx43

Thanks Dave for your input. Hope everything is well down under (sorry couldn't resist)

Ironmanx43

Dave - P.S. I've heard that the F/G Fuse will increase your weight. If it was me (and it is at least here) I'd go with balsa and forget the F/G.

larry@coyotenet

My Feedback: (21)

I am currently building the vailly 190 from a Precision kit. Here are my observations.
The plans and the kit are both off slightly on every piece. Variations are from 1/8 to 1/2 inches in some parts. The wood was overall acceptable but some of the parts and sheeting were horrible. Wing ribs required enlarging the notches for the spars and recutting the notches by 1/16th to 1/8 on every rib. All wood was labeled and easy to recognize. Some of the wood appears to be either old or very dry. It actually shattered when bent. Light ply parts were generally good but some of the ribs were warped badly. The method for building the wing was easy and went together fast except for the need to fine tune every part before it would fit correctly. The method of building the wing in the flap area required much beefing up since it had no spars and depended on 3/32 sheeting and ribs for it's structure, warped quite easily. The flaps themselves warp easily unless beefed up. I am no fan of the way the surfaces built, they look really good when done but the method of construction with the 1/32 ply forming the trailing edges is not my favorite. I was forced to get a plastic model of the 190 in order to visualize the contours of the fuselage for sheeting, the plans are very vague in this area. I am using Gene Barton retracts which are works of art but which have the worst mounting system I have ever seen, They required a very unique mount to be built into the wing.
I would go with the Vailly or the Robart retracts next time, very simple to mount.
Overall impression, Either the plans shrink and expand due to humidity (can be a problem with blueprint type plans) or they don't match the kit. Nothing is off very much but nothing really fits exactly. I would use a glass fuse next time, the shape of the 190 is deceiving unless you have a plastic model to go from, This probably is the reason why so many models of the 190 don't look quite right and you don't know why. The structure of the plane is quite light, for instance, the wing is 92" and a large chord, yet the spars are two (2) 1/4 x 1/2 spruce or basswood with 1/16 shear web. Wing center section braces are 1/8 ply and rear spar is 1/4 x 1/2 balsa on the bottom and 1/4 x 1/8 spruce on the top. The one I am working on will have the center section wrapped for strength. Fiberglass cowl is great, but BIG. I would say that this plane has a lot of air built into it! Should be able to meet the weight suggestion of 28 to 32 pounds with no problem, only trouble might be the retracts which weigh quite a bit more than the ones the plans show.
This plane is not for the novice, or even the reasonably good builder. I can see someone with experience building, say the TopFlite giant scale kits being totally lost on this one. For comparison my experience building warbirds and sport planes goes back to the early 70's building just about every TF and Royal scale kit and advancing to scratch building from my own plans and building from Bryan Taylor and other English plane designers. I have probably built close to 100 various types of planes from kits and plans and scratch so I consider myself to be competent builder.
Would I build this plane again? Yes. I would change some things like getting a glass fuse and using Vailly retracts, but I am sure the finished plane will be a great flier and look impressive.


Larry

Ironmanx43

WOW - I am becoming very disillusioned. [sm=drowning.gif] So many negative vibes regarding PCK, its putting my engineering background into a flatspin. [] I'll try to take the negatives, put them in a box and remember that I helped design upgrades to both the Patriot and AMRAAM missles when I worked at Raytheon and see where it takes me. Wish me luck and many happy thoughts. [sm=bananahead.gif]

Ironmanx43

THought I'd let you all in on the paint scheme I am thinking of attempting. Here it is. However, I am open to suggestions for others.

larry@coyotenet

My Feedback: (21)

Not a knock on Precision Cut Kits, just my observations on the kit I am building. I think the problem, differences between kit and plan, might be caused by differences in the plans used to cut the kit and the plans I was sent. I still think it could be the plan shrinking and expanding due to temp or humidity. I live in a very low humidity location while Vailly is in a high humidity area. It is possible that the parts also changed because of the differences between the humidity. I do think that the wood included with the kit for sheeting the wing was very uneven in quality, even to the point of changing from hard to soft on the same sheet. Would I build another PCK cut kit? Certainly, but nothing is perfect. Sorry to keep changing this post but forgot to mention that plane will use either a Quadra 100 or a Brison 5.8. We fly at 5,000 feet so the extra power comes in handy.

Larry

Ironmanx43

No problem, Larry. Just receiving bad vibes from people regarding a kit I just put doen my money on. Do you have any pics of your FW190? I'd love to see them.

Ironmanx43

Update - the goodies from Vailly have just arrived - I am preparing to sling balsa and hopefully provide som pics tonight

Ironmanx43

Ok got to give credit where credit is due. Larry was abosolutely right. Although the laser cut ply parts seem to be on the mark, there are a number of Balsa parts that are 1/16 to 1/8 off the mark, just like Larry said. Also, the full kit was missing some balso stock and balsa filler stock. I'm not miffed, but I am not pleased.

Nevertheless, with a good heart I proceed anyway. I've started on the rudder. I'll have to go to my LHS to get some filler stock to finish it. Here are some Pics of the goodies I got from Vailly today and the beginning of the Rudder.

Ironmanx43

Goodies

Ironmanx43

Problems uploading -- Please standby

Ironmanx43

More Goodies[8D]

Ironmanx43

Some More Goodies

Ironmanx43

RUdder pics

Ironmanx43

Final Pics

ticketec

My Feedback: (2)

My down under is all good, thanks for asking

I have also heard that the f/g fuse's come out a little heavier, but when you consider the amount of work you have to do to get the balsa one up to the glassed stage, i reckon it might be worth a pound or two, but i guess in my case, it's not really an option

Well look forward to seeing how she's comes together, the rudder is looking great already.

thanks

dave

Ironmanx43

Okay - Even though some of the parts don't match the plans, the build goes well. Here are some pics to bring you up to date. The first 4 are the beginning of the fin. Of particular import is the missing leading edge balsa stock. I had to go to the LHS and pick some up then cut it by hand. I think the best way to do it was by first making a trace. When done, I could match it to its size on the plans, but when putting it together with the fin and matching it on the plans, it did not fit right until some connsiderable sanding.

Ironmanx43

THese next 4 pics are simply of sheeting the fin. Next will be laying in some 1/16 th bass wood for scale joint looks.

Ironmanx43

OK last pics for the day. Laying in the bass wood and final product, but for a bunch of sanding, I think this is as far as I can go with the fin for now. If you'd like a better pic, please let me know.

bps

My Feedback: (3)

Andrew,
Great shots and how is the parts fit of the PCK kit? I contemplated building one of these for a fellow modler, and your build thread is peaking my interest! Just completed my 1/4 Dr1 and am finishing up a 1/4 Clip Wing Cub. Maybe around the first of the year I will be ready for another project.

Keep the pictures and the building information coming. I have a feeling that sales of Vailly plans are going up!

jkeze

My Feedback: (36)

I built one of these several years ago and it was one of the meanest birds in the air when flying it. In your last picture I think you should consider resheeting the fin. I think the grain should be vertical not horizontal. It will flexbetween the ribs. The grain should be perpendicular to the ribs like you will do on the wing

Jack

Ironmanx43

THanx JEB. I'll keep taking those pics while others dont's. But nothing that can't be handled

Ironmanx43

[sm=spinnyeyes.gif][sm=spinnyeyes.gif]Gosh dar_- Jack you're right. Where's my sander. And I was going to start the Elevators tonight. [sm=spinnyeyes.gif]

Ironmanx43

Sorry JEB - That did not come out right. I'll keep on taking the pics. SOme of the balsa fits just fine while other pieces are slightly off. BUt nothing that can't be handled. I would say this is a good kit so far although I am not impressed with PCK, I can't say it is all that bad either.

bps

My Feedback: (3)

Andrew,
I would suggest you think about sanding off that balsa from the vertical stab. Your going to fiberglass it anyway and I would think this part would be plenty strong if not way overbuilt. The horizontal and the wing would be another story though, in my opinion. I agree with Jack on grain direction, anything is weaker across the grain. Great pictures and nice catch, Jack!