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Top Flite '.60 size' P-51D Mustang ARF: Building & Modifications

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Old 05-26-2008, 10:18 AM
  #26
CorsairJock
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Default RE: Top Flite '.60 size' P-51D Mustang ARF: Building & Modifications

Right on, lrb75. I just updated my previous post to reflect that. I apparently posted the Dave Brown link twice by mistake.

I just installed the instrument panel directly into the cockpit, without adding the other 3 'detail' parts. Reason: the 3 parts did not have good alignment (other decal did not line up with the plywood holes), as can be seen in the manual. I therefor decided that it would look no better, even possibly worse, while adding 1/4 oz, so I decided to leave the 3 parts off. I used 6 minute epoxy to glue the instrument panel (complete with the paper backing) to the 'dash'.
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Old 05-26-2008, 07:39 PM
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Default RE: Top Flite '.60 size' P-51D Mustang ARF: Building & Modifications

Hay CoresairJock,
Where do I get the spacers your talking about ? I want a set for my landing gear. It's not a difficult to pull the retracts apart, knock out the roll pin, and cut the legs sorter by 1/4 to 3/8" shorter. You would need to drill a new hole in the struts for the roll pin, but not that big a deal. It would be nice if some one would come out with a retract unit for this kit, that would fit proper and the correct strut length, to install a pair of 3 1/2" Robart scale wheels.

I tried to order a tail wheel retract assy. from both the companies, all are out of stock. You memtioned that your going to use the Sullivan sprung tail wheel assy...where you considering using the 10~22# unit ? Having a little give back here would be nice, for I do love to practice my landings...and I'm really hell on landing gear. The stock unit does not give you much of a bounce, but most my tail wheels on my WWII fighters where like the stock unit in this kit. If I ended up damanging the tail wheel that much...usually...I had much more to be concerned about then a bent tail wheel... : )

Today I'm installing the port wing landing gear, and figure out a way to get the main landing gear doors to work. Then I'll work on installing the servo's into both wings.

As to the cocpit instument panel. I plan on painting the wood frame black. Stick the instruments, sticker into the forward cocpit, set the clear plastic insturment lens cover over this, then place the cut and painted wood instument panel over all of it. Try it and see if it doesn't work out for you. I'm going to do it tonight...and I'll take pictures.

Soft Landings always,
Bobby of Maui

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Old 05-26-2008, 10:18 PM
  #28
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Default RE: Top Flite '.60 size' P-51D Mustang ARF: Building & Modifications

Hay CorsairJock,
Going through my assembly manual...I noticed that I couldn't find anything on installing the retracts...and wonder of wonders...I found an "up grade notice" in the box. It also showed you the beef up kit for the main landing gear... : )...and just what the doctor ordered. Now I'm confident the main landing gear attachment will hold up to my landings.

I installed my cocpit intstument panel, and it looks right nice.

When I ordered my T.F. P-51D, I also ordered a second "D" cocpit interior. I needed this for my P-51B, and I also needed a new canopy for my "B." I used Top Flight spray paint to paint my first canopy, and the plastic deformed so bad, I had to toss the canopy. I then called Sig...and ordered their P-51B conopy (half the cost of the T.F. canopy and its painted too) and it fit like a glove...and then installed the Top Flight "D" interior kit into the "B." It may not be scale...but it sure looks better then having nothing in there at all.

I'm now going back to my starbard wing panel and installing the "up grade" to beef up the main landing gear. I'm still stumped on how to attach my main gear doors.

Soft Landings always,
Bobby of Maui
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Old 05-27-2008, 04:35 AM
  #29
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Default RE: Top Flite '.60 size' P-51D Mustang ARF: Building & Modifications

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Bob Paris
...............Where do I get the spacers your talking about ? I want a set for my landing gear................
Available in 3 different sizes, this one should work for landing gear mounts:
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXE951&P=SM

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Bob Paris
...................You memtioned that your going to use the Sullivan sprung tail wheel assy...where you considering using the 10~22# unit ?
I forgot which one I have, but the diameter is somthing like 7/32" diameter? I had to solder a 1/8" OD grass tube to the post part to get it to fit right in a retract unit designed for 1/8" struts.


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Bob Paris
.................................I'm still stumped on how to attach my main gear doors.....................
I am going to give these a try (WHEN they errive):
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...01p??&I=LXES73

I may have to add some spacers tho.
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Old 05-27-2008, 09:26 AM
  #30
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Default RE: Top Flite '.60 size' P-51D Mustang ARF: Building & Modifications

Corsairjock, thank you for starting such a nice thread. My kit arrived on Fri. the 23rd. and then I left for the holiday weekend. Got home on Mon. and went thru the kit and everything looks great. Can you tell me where you got the nice color three view dwg. of the full scale? I would like to use it for markings reference, panel lines, etc. I will start planning my build tonite. Am thinking of creating a full cockpit and using a full pilot figure from C. J. Thanks again and keep up the great work.

Scott
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Old 05-27-2008, 06:47 PM
  #31
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Default RE: Top Flite '.60 size' P-51D Mustang ARF: Building & Modifications

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Thorprops
.......... Can you tell me where you got the nice color three view dwg. of the full scale? I would like to use it for markings reference, panel lines, etc. .............Scott
Here is one website. Clicking on some of the pictures opens a new page, with drawings, photos of the full scale, and additional details:
http://www.cebudanderson.com/modgal2.htm

Here's another:
http://www.littlefriends.co.uk/galle...list&Group=357

And one more:
http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww2/f/165

BYW: I decided that I want mine to look a little different/ don't want to show up at a warbird event and see one just like mine, so I am modeling mine after Shoo Shoo Baby, notice how I turned the "T" into an "L".
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Old 05-27-2008, 08:14 PM
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Default RE: Top Flite '.60 size' P-51D Mustang ARF: Building & Modifications

Hi Guys,
A word of caution about removing the dorsel fin. Did you ever wonder why it was added on the later D models in the first place? It wasn't because it looked spiffy. It was because when North American Aviation redesigned the fuse to incorperate the bubble canopy they did not realise it was reducing the aerodynamic side area off the fuse and the new D model was more difficult to recover from a spin (Some Didn't). So they had to add the dorsel fin for more stability. Same thing happened with the P-47. So if you remove the dorsil fin from the model be carefull not to spin it close to the ground. I witnessed an old topflite kit D model with out the fin spin all the way to the ground from a about 200 ft. One thing I have learned about aircraft real or models. There isn't anything on them that doesnt have a valid reason for being there.
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Old 05-27-2008, 11:37 PM
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Default RE: Top Flite '.60 size' P-51D Mustang ARF: Building & Modifications

Hay CorsairJock,
Thanks for the information. But I'm a little confused about the landing gear wedges. I had invisioned a rectangle shaped wedge, not a round one. Are you able to cut these wedges to fit under the retractable landing gear ? Some where in my past I saw wedges that some one made, that slipped right under the gear, slick and easy...but who, I just don't remember.

As to the gear doors...I beat you to it...I had mine arrive today. Neat little gizmo's arn't they...I will need to knock out the roll pin to install the sleave, but thats easy to do. I've also an idea on how to modify my landing gear a bit, and using the sleave, get the gear doors on solid. My concern is that they may stick out a bit...so I am praying the wedges do their thing, and lower the gear leg into the wheel well better.

My landing gear attachment rails are not parallel with the skin of the wing and just as you stated in an eariler post...so I will deal with it, one way or another.

Another club member just bought his T.F. P-51D so there will be two that I know of flying soon.

I used two hour epoxy, and all my landing gear reinforment parts are installed and drying.

Soft Landings always,
Bobby of Maui
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Old 05-28-2008, 11:33 AM
  #34
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Default RE: Top Flite '.60 size' P-51D Mustang ARF: Building & Modifications

Ok , thank you. [8D]I also was able to just print the three view you had in another post I got started last nite with getting out the sealing iron and went over all the covering. I read on the Top Flite product page for this arf a nice how article for preparing the covering on arf models. It's a pdf. file listed on the bottom of the page. What I found very helpfull was the suggestion to go over all the covering even if you see no loose wrinkles or small bubbles. I took my time and spent about 2 hrs. just going over the flying surfaces. I will do the fuse tonite. I will say that this is one of the best Monocote covered arfs I have ever got right out of box so the ironing went real easy. I plan to use the three views and apply panels lines using a TF panel line pen I got from Tower. I have some flexible steel rules to use and I will do some practice lines on my H9 Hellcat. Anyone out there have some tips for using one of these pens? I will post some pics when I get some of it done.


Scott
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Old 05-28-2008, 10:06 PM
  #35
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Default RE: Top Flite '.60 size' P-51D Mustang ARF: Building & Modifications

Use alcohol to erase your mistakes, and you will have to clear coat now, That will add weight.
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Old 05-29-2008, 11:49 AM
  #36
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Default RE: Top Flite '.60 size' P-51D Mustang ARF: Building & Modifications

Ty Manfred, you are a good German I will start the panel lines tonite and practice on the tail surfaces. I think a lite coat of TF flat clear will work and keep the wt. down. Finished the flaps and ail. install last nite and all went well. In reply to a post from CorsairJock my flap install went something like this. Push the hinges all the way into the flap and rotate until hinge points are square to the flap. Measure the length of hinge that sticks out from flap L.E. for ref. and then push the flap into the wing. check the flap movement and clear out the flap pockets as needed. When satisfied remove the flap and mix the epoxy. I like to drop the epoxy into the holes with a sharp stick. Now insert the hinges into the flap and use the ref. measurment for all three hinges. Square them up again and drop the epoxy into the wing holes. Now insert the flap and position per instr. Move the flap down to proper travel and this will self align the hinges. This is why it's a good idea to use 30 min. epoxy cause it gives you time to work the flap in. What I did'nt like was my flaps were a little off from side to side and I did'nt want to open up the hinge holes to reposition them. They were'nt that bad so I just let it go.[:'(]


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Old 05-29-2008, 08:05 PM
  #37
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Default RE: Top Flite '.60 size' P-51D Mustang ARF: Building & Modifications

What are you guys using for fuel tanks? I'm thinking the stock one may be a bit too small? I'm installing a Saito 1.20 in mine.
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Old 05-29-2008, 08:31 PM
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Default RE: Top Flite '.60 size' P-51D Mustang ARF: Building & Modifications

Actually, one of the best references for panel lines, access hatches/ covers, etc would be one of the".........in Scale and Detail" bookelts (about $15?) from Squadron/ Signal. I'm sure that have a Mustang one, which would have scale 3 views (probably in 1/72 scale) containing all the panel lines of all Mustang models. Additionally, they usually have photograghs which show many details.
Another source is one of the fine Tamiya plastic model kits.

As for my fuel tank: I am using a pair of 3S 5000mAH Lipo packs in series. I've got a feeling that most will using the stck fuel tank. Unless one puts a bigger than normal engine in it, AND intends to run full throttle most of the time: I would think the stock tank would work well. This should be a fast plane, even without a big engine. Mustangs are more streamlined than many other warbirds.

Bob Paris: I suggest that you re-read the description of the thrust plates, and I cut mine into strips for adjusting the retract mounting angle. They are not round. The strips go between the retracct units and the mounting rails.

I am mounting my RoboStruts to the retracts, and it is a lot of work (IF using stock retracts). For one thing: the Robart insterts must be drilled out to 5mm (maybe 5.1 would be better), which is no easy task. The holes must STRAIGHT and TRUE. I messed up the first one, then discovered that if I chuck the insert into the drill press, then clamp the drill bit into the drill vise: the holes will come up true.

Looks like my 3 1/2" Dave Brown wheels will fit with only a slight modification to the RoboStruts: a little grinding of the bottom parts will get me the clearance, and it appears that it will not compromise the structural integrity of the struts.

Looks like Top Flight intended the flaps to be driven from the same channel: both flap cover hatches are identical, meaning the servos can be setup to operate in the same direction. I'm gonna have 14 channels to play with, so I think I'll reverse one of mine and put it on a seperate channel.
And BTW Thorprops: my (installed) flaps look to be slightly out of alignment also, but like your's: not bad enough to be worth re-drilling the holes.
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Old 05-29-2008, 08:40 PM
  #39
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Default RE: Top Flite '.60 size' P-51D Mustang ARF: Building & Modifications

Set up the flaps on separate channels, reverse one then tie them both to the same knob (I did this in my 9C).
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Old 05-30-2008, 09:10 AM
  #40
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Default RE: Top Flite '.60 size' P-51D Mustang ARF: Building & Modifications

Did another google search last nite and found the Hobbico GP P51D kit instructs. for the old 40-60 size kit in pdf. On the back page there was a real nice three view with very clear panel line lay out. The copy off my printer came out great and was able to get started inking the lines. Almost finished one top wing panel in about an hr. and the rest will go a little faster. This is a first for me so I just take my time and have fun with it . I don't plan to replicate every last rivet and hatch cause it will be too time consuming for me. . . but I'll see how it goes. In reply to Submikester I also have a 9C but I cheaped out and bought a 8ch. receiver for the stang. I guess I will have to Y the flap servos together per the instructs. I do have a Y reversing harness if that might make it easire to set the center point on one side? Can you tell me which knob/switch to prog. on the TX for the flaps? This is my 1st. flap set up so I have some new things to learn but I an going to enjoy the new exper. Will try to get some pics up soon but there will be some things for me to learn on that also. I hav'nt had any luck with making my Avitar either[:'(]


Scott




" If you're not the lead dog. . . the view never changes! '
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Old 05-30-2008, 09:32 AM
  #41
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Default RE: Top Flite '.60 size' P-51D Mustang ARF: Building & Modifications

8 channels should be enough channels.

1-4 of course

4 is retracts

6 and 7 are flaps - I assigned mine to the lever on the left hand side of the TX. You will have to reverse channel 7 if I recall correctly.

I used a regular y adapter for my Ailerons.

For reference I have the Sig P-51B which has the same radio requirements.
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Old 05-30-2008, 09:40 AM
  #42
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Default RE: Top Flite '.60 size' P-51D Mustang ARF: Building & Modifications

Yah, ok that sound good for this set up. Did you mean 5 for the retracts? What switch did you set on TX for ret. ? Ty.
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Old 05-31-2008, 07:20 PM
  #43
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Default RE: Top Flite '.60 size' P-51D Mustang ARF: Building & Modifications

Stock retracts, 3/8" diameter offset RoboStruts (653L & 653R), Dave Brown 3 1/2" wheels, and a little room to spare.

As you can see: the wheels go entirely into the wells, I did not need to add any shims (strips cut from Ernst motor offset plates). This is because I have the strut spring loops moving the struts deeper into the wells, and the offset RoboStruts move them deeper yet. When my Robart gear door mounting adapters arrive: I should have no trouble getting the gear door to mount flush when the gear is up.

The 5mm struts have 3/4" 'chopped off' the top (where they insert into the trunion), so that the spring 'loop' resides closer to the trunion. This allows the RoboStrut length to be kept longer. At the other end (the end that goes to the wheel), I cut them off so that they extend only 1 5/16" from the retract unit when retracted (up position).

The RoboStruts had to be shortened to an overall length of 5 1/4", or 2 3/16" for the top part only (the part that connects to the wire strut). I beleive that this is about 1/4" shorter than what Robar recommends, and I had to move the internal nylon spring stopper down accordingly so that the mounting insert (which was drilled out to 5mm diameter) could be fully inserted into the RoboStrut top part. I also located some shorter springs (from work). If you decide to do all of this: you may be better off just cutting down the springs about 3/8".

In order to get the clearance needed for the Dave Brown 3 1/2" wheels, I ground off about 1/16" from the bottoms of the struts where the fork part is weled on. Hopefully, this will not affect the structural integrity of the struts. In any event, it should be noted: Dave Brown 3 1/2" wheels are not really a true 3 1/2" diameter. I would say they are closer to 3 7/16". But that is true for many wheels: they are actually slightly smaller than their stated sizes. I will try out a pair of Robart 3 1/2" scale wheels at the later date (I may want to use them at warbird events).

All in all: there was a lot of work involved here, and I think much of it could have been avoided by simply installing Robart HD mechanical retracts ( with 3/16" diameter struts) instead of the Top Flite retract units. In fact: I would recommend it. I think the Top Flite 5mm strut wires are actually TOO robust. I think that it would be nearly impossible to to bend them, and that if you land (or crash ) hard enough: the retracts will seperate from the wings before these become bent (probably why Top Flit felt it necessary to modify the front mounting rail). I'm thinking the Robart units sell for about $40? If I had to do it over, I would have oredered the Robarts and save the Top Flite ones for something bigger.

But, the end result is: it works, and I like the fit, and I like the fact that I can use 3 1/2" wheels.
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Old 05-31-2008, 07:26 PM
  #44
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Default RE: Top Flite '.60 size' P-51D Mustang ARF: Building & Modifications

Robart retractable nosewheel unit for 1/8" (wire) strut, modified Sullivan spring tailwheel strut.

First off: installing the Sullivan spring tailwheel strut really complicates things, and I would not recommend it. WAY too many clearance issues are created when it is installed in this Robart retract unit. Same goes for the B&D unit. Use a conventional looking tailwheel strut (wire) and you will make things much easier on yourself.

The Robart #602 retractable nosewheel unit is a pretty nice unit, and the only thing that I would really like to see is a conventional steering horn (with 2 arms), so that it can be set up for pull-pull steering control. This arrangement works pretty well with retractable tailwheels. The steering arm on this one came from my B&D reetractable nosegear unit. BOTH units are nice, and both are designed for 1/8" diameter struts. In the case of my Sullivan strut: it was a smaller diameter, but I soldered a piece of 1" O.D. brass tube over the 'post' to make it fit snugly in the retract unit.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...7&I=LXMJJ7&P=K

The details and more pics of the tailwheel retract modifications are in post #61:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=7587995
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Old 06-03-2008, 08:41 AM
  #45
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Default RE: Top Flite '.60 size' P-51D Mustang ARF: Building & Modifications

Finished the panel lines on one wing half last nite then took a break and started the ail. servo install and TX programing on my 9C. I put the rt. ail on ch.1 and lft. ail on ch.7 then enabled the ail. diff. mix on the 9C. The TX manual says to do this so ch.5 will be retracts and flaps will be Y'd together on ch.6 . The flap servo positions on the TF model are set up with one side reversed for them to be Y'd together. I like the idea of using the ratcheting lever on the left side of the TX for flap ops. but could not find the info in the manual to program it. Submikester, can you help me with that since you have a 9C . This is my first flap set up so I would be greatfull for any tips from you guys out there

Corsairjock, I sure do like your retract work and am watching how you do the tail wheel set up since that is something I have never seen done. Thank you for sharing it all with us.


Scott
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Old 06-03-2008, 05:26 PM
  #46
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Default RE: Top Flite '.60 size' P-51D Mustang ARF: Building & Modifications

yeah, I meant '5' for the retracts - I use the switch on the top left, don't remember which one that is.
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Old 06-03-2008, 06:19 PM
  #47
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Default RE: Top Flite '.60 size' P-51D Mustang ARF: Building & Modifications

I just finished up a GP Cherokee and the manual said to reverse one the the servo hatches to reverse direction of one flap servos. I did this and used two Y harnesses (1 for flaps and 1 for ailerons). I have not got my P-51 out of the box yet but would that be possible??
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Old 06-03-2008, 06:37 PM
  #48
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Default RE: Top Flite '.60 size' P-51D Mustang ARF: Building & Modifications

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ORIGINAL: CorsairJock
......................Looks like Top Flight intended the flaps to be driven from the same channel: both flap cover hatches are identical, meaning the servos can be setup to operate in the same direction. I'm gonna have 14 channels to play with, so I think I'll reverse one of mine and put it on a seperate channel........................
It sounds like this needs repeating, as it seems some of you didn't catch it the first time.
When I chose to reverse on of my flap servos: I did so knowing that I will have to remove the covering from one of the flap servo covers, and re-cover it on the opposite side. I do this to maintain symetry (OK, so I have a little 'Rain Man' in me). I will then mount that flap servo so that it will need to be reversed.

IF you build according to plans: BOTH Flaps servos will operate in the same direction (good for flaps, bad for ailerons), and you will NOT need to reverse one of them.

I am taking Friday off from work, and will post more pics of the tailwheel arrangement on that day, as well as a better description of what I did.
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Old 06-03-2008, 07:28 PM
  #49
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Default RE: Top Flite '.60 size' P-51D Mustang ARF: Building & Modifications

Ok, I gotcha now. That is pretty clever. I chose to just follow the plans cause I was even having trouble figuring that out, sorry first time flappy doos for me[&:] . Read my 9C manual again and the default for flaps on ch.6 is the knob on frnt. left of TX (VR/A). I liked the switch assignment per Submikester and I changed the flaps to move with the slide lever on the left side of TX case ( VR/D) Lever up, flaps up (level), VR/D lever down makes flaps move all the way down. Hoping to be able to make each flap move the same with position of servo arms and control horns. If Top Flite made it work ok then I should be able to come out pretty much the same. When I do another model like this I will pay the cost for more channels on the RX so I can plug in each flap servo into it's own port on the RX and be able to manipulate them thru the TX. Hey that's why I bought the 9C in the first place Anyway, I'm having fun with this beauty ! !


Scott


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Old 06-03-2008, 08:10 PM
  #50
CorsairJock
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Default RE: Top Flite '.60 size' P-51D Mustang ARF: Building & Modifications

Thorprops, I have a 9C also (but I will be using a 2.4 GHz 12 channel for my Mustang), and like submikester: I use a slider (but I use the one on the right side). Makes it very easy to go to whatever flap setting that you want. Turning a knob just doesn't get it. Turning a knob takes 2 fingers, moving a slider takes 1, and I can keep my thumb on the stick.

ANYWAY, I am using my 9C on a Top Flite Corsair, and I am using 2 flaps servo, set up on different channels (and one is reversed)). That way: I can fine tune end point adjustments for each. What you have to learn how to do is this: learn to set up a Master/ Slave servo mix. One of your flap servos will be the Master, and it can be assigned to either slider (or whatever you want). Use one of your Auxilliary channels to drive the other servo, this servo will be s Slave to the Master, and will move with the slider.
Bottom line: this Mustang is truely designed to be operable on only 6 channels, but it will be easier to set up and trim if you use seperate channels for each aileron and each flap. The 9C can do it, with programmable mixes to spare.
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