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Top Flite '.60 size' P-51D Mustang ARF: Building & Modifications

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Old 12-30-2015, 03:04 PM
  #3151  
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Originally Posted by ThunderBoat42
Beilea 4 blade prop is here... Decided to go with that instead of the APC 14.5 - 4 blade. a little pricey and was packed appropriately by TBM. impressed.
where did you get the 4 blade prop from and what is the best size of prop to go for on this kit
Old 12-30-2015, 05:33 PM
  #3152  
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Autecart , you can get a full body pilot that fits the 1700 P51 Mustang from Motion RC , so it will work with the Top Flight Stang . You can also get a cool P51 interior kit for the Stang from Motion , also made for the 1700 P51 .
Old 12-30-2015, 07:23 PM
  #3153  
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The other day I with a friend had a real treat I was allowed loose in a hanger that had the second last Mustang to be built hear in Australia at Fishermans Bend As the last one that was built at the Bend no longer exists this is the newest Mustang in the world. It was just sitting there with the motor removed ,which is away being rebuilt.. It's hard to describe the feeling I know I had a grin from ear to ear. The canopy was open , this gave a great view.
Old 12-31-2015, 07:38 AM
  #3154  
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What no pics?
Old 12-31-2015, 08:21 AM
  #3155  
flycatch
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http://www.troybuiltmodels.com/categ...ropellers.html They also make 4 bladed props.
Old 12-31-2015, 08:21 AM
  #3156  
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Aces of Iron http://www.acesofiron.com/7th_scale.htm
Old 12-31-2015, 09:34 AM
  #3157  
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Originally Posted by acdii
What no pics?
No left the camera home and it's(the Mustang) is to far away from home to just race back for a photo Yours Paul T
Old 01-13-2016, 07:21 PM
  #3158  
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Anyone have a good CG for the DLE 20 on this plane?
Old 01-13-2016, 08:31 PM
  #3159  
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The CG recommended in the instructions works great.
Old 01-14-2016, 09:18 PM
  #3160  
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The CG does not change regardless of the engine you have.

Cheers,
Old 01-15-2016, 03:24 PM
  #3161  
flycatch
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http://www.friendlyflyers.org/cg-calc.html After reading the posts relating to CG location I came to the conclusion that something was amiss. I included a link to a CG calculator but you can find many more. Using this and plunging in the numbers will save your airplane.
Old 01-16-2016, 06:43 AM
  #3162  
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Originally Posted by flycatch
After reading the posts relating to CG location I came to the conclusion that something was amiss.
I'm not sure what you think is "amiss"? My Mustang weighed 10.5 lbs with a Valley View 20cc gas engine. The CG was 5 5/8" back just as shown in the manual. The plane flew great!

https://youtu.be/_48EbAn-uE0
Old 02-16-2016, 03:32 PM
  #3163  
Bob Paris
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Aloha Gentleman,

After hanging up my T.F. P-51D for better then five years, I pulled it down, and now getting it ready to fly again. The model lost favor with me, do the idle issues I had with the K&B 1.00 I had in the nose. The model flew with a 15x6 prop and no matter what I did to the engine, I was never really able to get it to settle into a nice idle. I flew the model a couple of dozen times...with half the time, dead stick. It was a powerful engine...and fit into the model nice and snug too. But the poor running at idle took its toll even after carb changes and re-work. Consequently I hung the model up and flew my "B" model. Well...after eight years of faithful service...my "B" was destroyed and that was my go-to model for me. So never being with out a P-51 in flying, I'm going to resurrect my "D."

I pulled the "D" down and purchased a DLE 20R and I plan on installing this into the model. I picked the engine up at Red Wing and with the discount and free shipping I received...bought the engine. I'm planning on using either a DuBro 120 size anti vibration mount, or a set of plastic engine mounts that will handle the job.

Has anyone installed the DuBro anti vibration engine mounts into this airframe yet?

I would appreciate any comments or recommendations you may have for an install of the DLE 20R into the model.

I balanced my model a little forward of the T.F. manual recommendations and she flew great at this placement for me. If you go back eight years in this thread...you will see my original build up of my "D."

I have an old pair of "Lado" electric retracts and I will fly with these installed, with Robart plastic hub scale tires. I love Robarts on pavement, for they grip well and we have good cross winds at our field all the time. The tires make a real difference...but...they do ware out. My "Lado's" worked flawlessly for more then eight years...good gear.

Airtronics 10G Tx and an 8 channel Rx and I'll use the 94322 servo's already installed into the model.

This thread having run this long will tell you one thing...this is one of the best flying Mustangs in this size ever designed. She flies and does it with pride too.

Soft Landings Always,
Bobby of Maui


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Old 02-16-2016, 03:39 PM
  #3164  
Harvey Mushman
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Originally Posted by Bob Paris
Aloha Gentleman,

After hanging up my T.F. P-51D for better then five years, I pulled it down, and now getting it ready to fly again. The model lost favor with me, do the idle issues I had with the K&B 1.00 I had in the nose. The model flew with a 15x6 prop and no matter what I did to the engine, I was never really able to get it to settle into a nice idle. I flew the model a couple of dozen times...with half the time, dead stick. It was a powerful engine...and fit into the model nice and snug too. But the poor running at idle took its toll even after carb changes and re-work. Consequently I hung the model up and flew my "B" model. Well...after eight years of faithful service...my "B" was destroyed and that was my go-to model for me. So never being with out a P-51 in flying, I'm going to resurrect my "D."

I pulled the "D" down and purchased a DLE 20R and I plan on installing this into the model. I picked the engine up at Red Wing and with the discount and free shipping I received...bought the engine. I'm planning on using either a DuBro 120 size anti vibration mount, or a set of plastic engine mounts that will handle the job.

Has anyone installed the DuBro anti vibration engine mounts into this airframe yet?

I would appreciate any comments or recommendations you may have for an install of the DLE 20R into the model.

I balanced my model a little forward of the T.F. manual recommendations and she flew great at this placement for me. If you go back eight years in this thread...you will see my original build up of my "D."

I have an old pair of "Lado" electric retracts and I will fly with these installed, with Robart plastic hub scale tires. I love Robarts on pavement, for they grip well and we have good cross winds at our field all the time. The tires make a real difference...but...they do ware out. My "Lado's" worked flawlessly for more then eight years...good gear.

Airtronics 10G Tx and an 8 channel Rx and I'll use the 94322 servo's already installed into the model.

This thread having run this long will tell you one thing...this is one of the best flying Mustangs in this size ever designed. She flies and does it with pride too.

Soft Landings Always,
Bobby of Maui


Hello Bobby of Maui,

Just for some additional piece of mind, I too have a couple pairs of original Lado retracts (from when they were manufactured in the US). One pair is installed in my TF .60 P-51 and they have over 200 flights with no problems at all.

Bob (Harvey)
Old 02-16-2016, 03:48 PM
  #3165  
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Hay Harvey,
I agree, my Lado electric retracts worked flawlessly and for many years. My guess...better then 300 cycles on mine and even after I really trashed my "B" model, I contacted Lado in France, and they serviced/rebuilt what was left of my landing gear...did it for under $100.00 to include shipping back to me. These guys are rally some first rate folks and their customer service is the best. I now have their electric tail wheel retract unit in my ESM 36cc powered Skyraider and it has given me flawless service. Don't let the company in France scare you away from these electric units...for the machine work is clean and units are rock solid. Besides...they have a wicked sense of humor and it was a pleasure doing business with them.

Soft Landings Always,
Bobby of Maui
Old 02-18-2016, 07:17 AM
  #3166  
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Hey Bob, go back in the thread aways and look for posts by myself and Rbean. I put a Dubro mount in mine and had to redrill the mounting holes after plugging the stock ones. I have used the GP mount included with most of their kits and it works fine also and you can use the stock mounting holes. I just happened to have a Dubro mount laying around. I used the side exhaust model so I needed a pitts muffler to keep it in the cowl, that lead to some vapor lock issues during hot weather so I created a ducting system to get air over the carb and fixed the issue. You will love the power, flies like a Mustang ought to! I also used a cable with ball links on both ends to hook up the throttle as it provided the best route to the throttle arm.
Old 02-22-2016, 09:32 PM
  #3167  
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Bob good to see you back. Loved the K&B mount and how you had it set up. Clean and made sense. Hate that it not got rite. I am a K&B fan too.
I have the Dubro 120 mount rails hanging on the parts wall I do Sam with my YS install. They are heavy but nice. I keep asking myself if the weight is worth the isolation. I think it may be and considering a retrofit in mine.
Old 02-23-2016, 02:59 PM
  #3168  
Bob Paris
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Aloha Guys,
I pulled the K&B 1.00 out of my Top Flight Red Tail P-51D. I built this model six years ago and had such difficult time getting the engine to idle, I quite flying the model. Its a C. Lee engine too and he modified the muffler for an inverted head. So I've two mufflers for this model and after a couple of dozen flights, gave up on the engine. I hung the model up and there is sat for six years...and of all my flights, I had at least 60% dead stick. The model has a very good glide and its very easy to predict your landing. I never broke a prop on this engine and I was swinging Master Air screw 15x8 props too. The model was a rocket in the air and made the prettiest landings with full flaps. With full flaps the model was rock solid and flew with a natural nose low attitude. Squeaker wheel landings were the norm for me and loved the model. Since my P-51B flew just as good...with out flaps...I just flew my "B" model all these years. The Super Tiger G90 I have is one of the last Italian built engines made and with out a doubt, the most reliable engine I ever had the pleasure to operate. I never lost an engine, in six years of flying this model and I had well over 350 flights on the model. A perfect match with a 13x6 Scimitar wood Master Airscrew and the most reliable idle of any engine I've ever flown...accept the K&B .61. That's 60 years of modeling experience talking here...I just loved the engine. I cracked the head when I totaled my "B"...and a fellow club member gave me his old good G90 to fix up mine...! I because of my "B" models demise...I needed to resurrect my "D."

I pulled the K&B 1.00, all the plumbing, fuel tank and supports. I then pulled three styles of engine mounts out and found the only engine mounts that would do the job with any interference was the Great Planes 20 ~ 26 cc gas engine mounts. This mount will fit the engine and give me all the clearances I need for the DLE 20R gas engine that is going in. I wanted to go with DuBro anti-vibration mounts, but the muffler interfered with the instillation of the muffler. I could modify the muffler...but the Great Plane engine mount works with no modifications...so it will go into the model. The K&B 1.00 originally built for high RPM, ducted fan use, and why a good idle wasn't needed. The mods done to make it useful for large props really didn't work out well...but I'll tell you one thing...this gas engine will be almost as powerful...if not more powerful then the K&B instillation.

I'll need a new fuel tank, fuel tank lines, fuel line fill valve and a second battery...for the electronic ignition system....and all the electronics fit. Surprising to me was that the engines were about the same size. The K&B 1.00 has a narrower crank case and that was for a smaller crank rotation dia. and high RPM. The DLE 20R gas engine has a wider crank case and wider dia. crank shaft...for more torque and a larger prop. The 20 cc engine will pull a Xore 17x6 with authority...up wards of 7,000 or more RPM. This model will have a really nice vertical presentation...just not as fast as with the nitro engine installed. The K&B turned that 15x8 @ 11,500+ RPM...it hauled serious butt... : )

Soft Landings Always,
Bobby of Maui

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Old 02-23-2016, 10:16 PM
  #3169  
Bob Paris
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Aloha Gentlemen,
I was mistaken when I thought that I didn't need to modify the engine mount. I needed to clear area's for the Choke and bottom corner of the Carb. Lets just say I managed to get rather creative with my Dremal tools. I have several holes to patch on the firewall, with hardwood dowels, before I mount the engine to the firewall. The engine needed to be moved aft on the engine mount in order to get the proper spinner to fuselage fit. I'll have no more then 1/32" gap and I had a perfect fit with the prior engine with a 1/64 gap, spinner to fuselage.

I mounted the engine with fiber lock nuts and blue lock-tight. So I've some work ahead of me yet, but I did manage to make good head way this afternoon. I'll mount the ignition box just aft of the fire wall on the bottom of the old fuel tank bay. My new Roto 16 oz. fuel tank will sit over the C.G. and my Rx forward of the fuel tank, and above it. I do believe I'll need weight aft to get a good balance, so I do plan on mounting both batteries in the fuselage aft of the wing. It all depends how the C.G. works out. The K&B 1.00 was a heavy engine for its size...so I may not need to much weight aft.

Soft Landings Always,
Bobby of Maui
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Old 02-23-2016, 10:38 PM
  #3170  
Bob Paris
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Hay Raptureboy,
I agree with using ball links and cable on a gas engine. I use the Sullivan easy on/off 4/40 ball links on the carb and I run through a large size easy-connector by DuBro. Easy to set up and to remove the engine too. The Sullivan units are strong and have worked well for me on several gas models.

I may use the vent tube system you used...but with the DLE 20R...will I have the same issue as you did with the pitts style muffler? Do you know of anyone that has used the DLE 20R engine in this airframe? If so...did they need to vent the carb or use the tubes like you did to have a reliable running engine?

That K&B 1.00 was substantially faster then the O.S. 90 a club member has in his. It was so fast it made my knees knock and it drank fuel like crazy. It went through a 16 oz. tank faster then any other two stroke glow I ever flew. But with the DLE swinging a Xore 17x6...this model should have a nice vertical presentation. I found that the Xore 17x6 worked out best for 20cc gas engines so far and I've two new Xore 17x6 to fly this model.

Thanks for the input and all your help...

Soft Landings Always,
Bobby of Maui
Old 02-24-2016, 08:00 AM
  #3171  
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No vents on the carb needed, what you see on mine was the vent for the tank. I have the side exhaust engine so I used the Jtec pitts muffler. Because the muffler sits over the carb it can heat up in a tight cowl like the Stang so I created some duct work using aluminium flashing to force air thru the engine fins and over the carb and out. I will dig out some pics for you.
Old 02-28-2016, 12:14 PM
  #3172  
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I bought this ARF last week after an unfortunate end to my kit built Topflite P-40. I'm using the ASP 1.20 4 stroke with an RC Specialties 90 degree adapter, a O.S. 90 degree header and a flex exhaust pipe. I haven't fitted the cowl yet but hopefully this will keep me from having to hack it up too much and also prevent me from having to use the large 4 stroke muffler. I have my fingers crossed that this will work and hold up okay.
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Old 02-28-2016, 07:48 PM
  #3173  
thebluemax
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Originally Posted by SteveR3750
I bought this ARF last week after an unfortunate end to my kit built Topflite P-40. I'm using the ASP 1.20 4 stroke with an RC Specialties 90 degree adapter, a O.S. 90 degree header and a flex exhaust pipe. I haven't fitted the cowl yet but hopefully this will keep me from having to hack it up too much and also prevent me from having to use the large 4 stroke muffler. I have my fingers crossed that this will work and hold up okay.

Hi Steve,
You may want to think about how you will be putting the cowl on with the 90 degree adapter. I used that on mine and I had to cut the cowl away for the adapter as well as the muffler. There is no way to tighten everything up unless the cowl is cut open to get a wrench on the nuts to lock it in place.

I cut the hole for the adapter just big enough to thread it into the head and to get a wrench on the nut. There was a lot more to cut out than I thought. I don't know how your exhaust pipe attaches to the adapter but if it threads in like mine did, then you will have to rotate it around the adapter without hitting the cowl. Plus your exhaust runs down the side and around the back of the head that then attaches to the fire wall. I think you will be cutting the cowl to allow that solid part of the exhaust to run along the side until it bends to the back to the exit hole on the other side.

I hope it works out for you but I had a heck of a time trying to get mine set up without a lot of cutting. I have to fiddle with it to get it on or off. I probably could avoid that if I made the holes a lot bigger. But that was something I did not want to do. Even so I ended up cutting more than I wanted. Good luck....


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Old 02-29-2016, 11:15 AM
  #3174  
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I see cooling issues with that setup, not enough exit space. Somewhere in this thread I posted the exit hole for my Saito 100. I baffled it as well, and that engine ran nice and cool.
Old 02-29-2016, 04:14 PM
  #3175  
SteveR3750
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[QUOTE=thebluemax;12183304]Hi Steve,
You may want to think about how you will be putting the cowl on with the 90 degree adapter. I used that on mine and I had to cut the cowl away for the adapter as well as the muffler. There is no way to tighten everything up unless the cowl is cut open to get a wrench on the nuts to lock it in place.

I cut the hole for the adapter just big enough to thread it into the head and to get a wrench on the nut. There was a lot more to cut out than I thought. I don't know how your exhaust pipe attaches to the adapter but if it threads in like mine did, then you will have to rotate it around the adapter without hitting the cowl. Plus your exhaust runs down the side and around the back of the head that then attaches to the fire wall. I think you will be cutting the cowl to allow that solid part of the exhaust to run along the side until it bends to the back to the exit hole on the other side.

I hope it works out for you but I had a heck of a time trying to get mine set up without a lot of cutting. I have to fiddle with it to get it on or off. I probably could avoid that if I made the holes a lot bigger. But that was something I did not want to do. Even so I ended up cutting more than I wanted. Good luck....


I definitely had to trim the cowl much more than I expected once I actually got into it and you were spot on with what it actually took. Oh well, all being said and done I'm okay with how it turned out and as pointed out above this trim is probably much better to address the cooling issues. The cowl is easy to remove as trimmed and I was able to get the cowl to fit much better by trimming about 3mm off the two forward hardwood cowling mount blocks. This allowed the cowl to move back enough to fit the contour where it meets the bottom of the fuselage without leaving such a noticeable gap there. The drawback is the centerline of the checkerboard pattern on the cowl and fuselage is slightly offand the gap between the cowl and spinner backplate is a little larger than that of the fuselage and spinner backplate. Not horribly noticeable though. I just traded one for the other and tried to find a happy medium.

My elevator's were warped and the drill holes were off so when installed the elevators were not aligned. I tried to tweak the joiner wire and it ended up snapping in half. Go figure. Tower is going to send me a replacement tail section to include the joiner wire but it's currently out of stock and on backorder. Go figure again. Oh well, this will keep me from getting in any real big hurry and tempt me to break out the airbrush and test my skills at trying to weather and dirty it up a little.
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