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Top Flite '.60 size' P-51D Mustang ARF: Building & Modifications

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Top Flite '.60 size' P-51D Mustang ARF: Building & Modifications

Old 05-02-2016, 08:13 AM
  #3226  
Bob Paris
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Aloha Gentlemen,
I managed to disassemble all of the carburetor and blow it clean. I removed the four screws, remove the valve inside & the diaphragm pump rubber, and blew everything clean. I then reassembled the carb...re-installing the small spring, valve pin and screwed it down snug. I did blow air through all the open holes and after assembled made sure the valve, diaphragm worked properly. In other words...that little spring, valve and pin...well...that was kind of interesting to assemble...but all went back as it was removed. I then used a thin layer of Luberplate (white grease) and coated all my gaskets. I snugged down the two holding screws and installed the carburetor on to the engine. My engine had a double valve assemble that seemed to work ok too and that finished the cleaning. I then installed the engine back into the model...and she is all ready to run.

I've done just about as much as I can to clean this carb and fix any issues I may have had. I set the carb needle valves per manual, at 1-1/2 turns out...both slow speed and high speed needles. I will be test running the engine this afternoon. Right now its raining...so I'll wait a bit.

If anyone can think of anything else I can do to this carb...let me know, but for now, I'm ready to run the engine and see what I get.

Soft Landings Always,
Bobby of Maui
Old 05-02-2016, 01:13 PM
  #3227  
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If you can see the fuel line, just keep an eye on it as you spin the motor. If you can see fuel start to move, you are good to go. I think all of the DLE20's have a hard time when first getting started out of the box, mine sure did.
Old 05-03-2016, 06:09 AM
  #3228  
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Not sure on this but could the reeds have anything to do with it? I saw that some had issues with the reeds not sitting tight against the reed block and had to have the block sanded down some to make it flat. There is a thread in the gas forum on it.
Old 05-03-2016, 05:46 PM
  #3229  
Bob Paris
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Aloha Gentlemen,
I fueled up my Mustang, and it started on choke...and then died again...Grrrrrr . So with a brain storm...I choked it again, got it to start...then pulled the coke out a bit...and it kept running. As long as the choke was pulled out a bit...it would run...but no where near full power. I did this several times and now I'm convinced that the engine is being starved for fuel.

Any idea's guys...?

So now I'm going to change out the whole fuel system...fuel tubing, filters and fuel tank...and see what happens. I'm stumped and the only other thing to do, besides taking out my shot gun and putting the engine out of its misery, would be to send the engine back to Red Wing.

I've got some work to do...

Soft Landings Always,
Bobby of Maui
Old 05-03-2016, 06:15 PM
  #3230  
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Since this takes 1/8" fuel line maybe take out one of the filters and see if that helps. Not sure why you are running 2 any way. Are you able to see fuel being pulled through the line? Any air bubbles being pulled through? It really sounds like your getting air in some where.
Old 05-03-2016, 10:29 PM
  #3231  
Bob Paris
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Hay Ratureboy,
Well for one thing...I know the engine was being starved for fuel...some how...some where. So I decided to change out one item at a time and see what happens. So the first thing I pulled was the fuel tank. I've never had an issue with Roto fuel tanks...never with over a dozen models with them. Usually if you have a fuel tank issue...installing a Roto fuel tank will eliminate the problem. The reason I pulled the fuel tank was that it came out of another model and wondered if by some reason, it created the fuel starvation issue. Then I removed the three way filter. I usually use a three way interconnect, to connect my fill line to my fuel tank, the fill line and engine feed line. I have never had an issue with the three way filter before...but I wanted to change it out anyway for now. After I replaced the fuel tank and three way interconnect filter, I ty-rapped my fuel lines and made the airframe flight ready. Now it was time to fire up the engine, so I installed the wing and fueled up the model again.

This time the model fired right up and would hold an idle and an engine speed to nearly half power. Anything over half power...the engine would quite. This told me I may need to open my high speed needle valve and I did...1/16 of a turn-she was a bit lean. I then fired up the engine again and it ran better and I was able to get about 3/4 throttle before it quite running. So I opened up my high speed needle valve to 1-3/4 turns...from the 1-1/2 turns I started with. At this placement the engine fired up...and I was able to go to full throttle and it held a steady run. I then started the engine again and with a long screwdriver and at full throttle, opened and closed the high speed needle valve until I manage to get a good high speed and get a nice solid idle.

The flippen engine runs great and on Thursday...I 'll fly her...weather permitting. Wow...what a trip, but I'm all smiles now. By the way...I've run dual fuel filters for years on my gas engines with no issues in the past, but to be honest...I'm not sure what exactly was the cause of the engine not running well in the first place. But I did just about everything I could to get it to run, because having to wait so long to get it back from the dealer was unacceptable.

Thank you guys for all your help and I'll let you know how the first flight works out for me.

Soft Landings Always,
Bobby of Maui

Last edited by Bob Paris; 05-03-2016 at 10:36 PM.
Old 05-04-2016, 06:31 AM
  #3232  
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WOO HOO! glad to hear it! Sometimes these thinks give me such fits I've come close to throwing them out in the burn pile What is a 3 way filter? I run three lines on my setups a fill line, vent, and fuel line. I put a sintered bronze filter on the fuel line and just a plain clung on the fill line so I am not pushing fuel against the filter. Quite honestly with a filter in the gas can and one in the tank there can't be that much dirt getting through. Funny thing is I have an old homelite weedwacker that has never had a filter change or fuel line replacement in 20 years, and every spring it fires right up in 2-3 pulls.
Old 05-04-2016, 09:34 AM
  #3233  
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Like rapture boy I use a three line set up. A fill line with a clunk, for refueling if necessary, a vent line and a fuel line to carb. The fuel line to the carb has a Wabro clunk/filter. No inline filter as they are just too small and if you have any trash in the fuel with just stop up. I also use a filter in the pick up line in the fuel can. Not much trouble with this set up.

Before I used a two line set up and had problems. If there is any air leak at all, would cause engine problems. Had too many connections and fuel dots to maybe leak.
Old 05-04-2016, 12:02 PM
  #3234  
Bob Paris
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Aloha from Maui,
Ok...this is a three way filter I use on all my gas engines. If filters the fuel going into your engine. It is sold by "BP" hobbies.

http://www.bphobbies.com/view.asp?id...4&pid=E2654892.

They also have other gas goodies for your gas engines too.



I've used these goodies for years, but mainly only two, A129 and A127.

Soft Landings Always,
Bobby of Maui

Last edited by Bob Paris; 05-04-2016 at 12:46 PM.
Old 05-04-2016, 12:35 PM
  #3235  
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I wonder if that filter had a tiny air leak? That would explain why you weren't drawing gas.
Old 05-04-2016, 12:45 PM
  #3236  
Bob Paris
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Hay Radfordc,
You know, I just don't know what the actual problem was. I do know that my engine needed 1-3/4 turn out to run properly...not the 1-1/2 turns published with the engine. I also feel that my Roto fuel tank may have been an issue too...and the only way to know is to install one item at a time and see what I get. It is very possible that the three way fuel filter could have created the problem, but this is my fifth filter I'm using this way, and if it is the problem...the first one to do so. I will put this filter back into my model and see what I get latter on, but for now, I'm going to run the engine as fixed. Thanks for the input...
Soft landings Always,
Bobby of Maui
Old 05-04-2016, 04:01 PM
  #3237  
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Originally Posted by Bob Paris
Hay Radfordc,
You know, I just don't know what the actual problem was. I do know that my engine needed 1-3/4 turn out to run properly...not the 1-1/2 turns published with the engine. I also feel that my Roto fuel tank may have been an issue too...and the only way to know is to install one item at a time and see what I get. It is very possible that the three way fuel filter could have created the problem, but this is my fifth filter I'm using this way, and if it is the problem...the first one to do so. I will put this filter back into my model and see what I get latter on, but for now, I'm going to run the engine as fixed. Thanks for the input...
Soft landings Always,
Bobby of Maui
I don't think the Roto Flow tank is the problem, I have used at least 10 of them and every one I know here uses them. Of coarse you could have gotten a bad one. The fact that you and to turn the needles out 1/4 turn is not big deal. Just don't run it lean! If you try to eek out every last rpm, in the air it will lean out and run hot, the kiss of death to a small gasser.
Old 05-04-2016, 04:45 PM
  #3238  
Bob Paris
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Hay Chris,
I was surprised to about the Roto tank, for I've run then with excellent results in the past. But you never know and I also removed the three way filter I used too. Now to be honest I don't know if it was a combination of several things, to include the possibility my carburetor-or just the fuel tank itself. But its working now and happy with the results.

Here the pictures of my old fuel tank instillation and the new one I'm now going to run.

Soft landings Always,
Bobby of Maui
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Old 05-04-2016, 04:59 PM
  #3239  
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Originally Posted by Bob Paris
Hay Chris,
I was surprised to about the Roto tank, for I've run then with excellent results in the past. But you never know and I also removed the three way filter I used too. Now to be honest I don't know if it was a combination of several things, to include the possibility my carburetor-or just the fuel tank itself. But its working now and happy with the results.

Here the pictures of my old fuel tank instillation and the new one I'm now going to run.

.

Soft landings Always,
Bobby of Maui
The guy who makes the Roto Flow is a club member. We have been using these tanks for 8 years. I have on had 1 fail, and it was a poor mounting on my part. Good Luck
Old 05-05-2016, 09:07 AM
  #3240  
Bob Paris
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Aloha Gentlemen,
I wanted to say one thing about this exercise I had with this engine and that was a gentleman named Craig that works for Red Wing. He was most helpful and sent me several e-mails over the past week and U-tube video's to help me find the issue with my DLE 20RA I purchased from his company. He was professional, straight forward and made a real effort to help me find a resolution with my problem. I must in all fairness, give this Craig a "Ata-Boy", Thank You. He did send me all the information I needed to correct my running issues with this engine...and also a nice education on the carburetor.

Next its about Roto Fuel tanks. To me...this is one of the best fuel tanks produced for this hobby. I've flown these fuel tanks for several years and I will purchase them again. They are not cheap...and I decided to return this fuel tank to Roto, to see if they can find out what was up with this tank. Several guys in our club, who fly gas engine models fly Roto fuel tanks and not one individual has had issues with this fuel tank. The fuel tank I have may be good...but I'm returning this fuel tank, so that if there is an issue with this tank, they may see the problem and correct it...if it does have manufacturing issues. As I stated earlier, I used this fuel tank in a Nitro model, and this may have created the issue with this tank, when I switched to gas fuel.

It looks like the weather will allow me to fly the model on Saturday and I'll let you folks know how the (re) maiden flight turns out.


Soft Landings Always,
Bobby of Maui
Old 05-09-2016, 05:07 PM
  #3241  
Bob Paris
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Aloha,
Well the weather has been crazy here, with high winds and rain. I will try to fly tomorrow, Tuesday if the weather cooperates...but its been really windy and this last storm has dumped more the 6" of rain in the past 24 hours. Some area's had more then a foot of rain...so I'll just have to wait it out for now.
Soft Landings Always,
Bobby of Maui
Old 05-10-2016, 07:49 AM
  #3242  
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Wow, the could use that rain in BC with all those fires. Good luck with the maiden.
Old 05-13-2016, 01:21 AM
  #3243  
Bob Paris
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Aloha Gentlemen,
I was able to fly this morning, with mixed results. The engine fired right up and ran sweet and smooth. In the center of our runway...I slowly brought in the power and the tail rose sweet and clean. By the time I had 3/4 throttle in, she was airborne...and then things got a little exciting. The C.G. was set at book figures 5-5/8", but it was to far aft for my liking. For pitch was way to sensitive for me and I throttle down, and started down wind. As I came into final, she was rock solid...but the wind was gusty...say 15kts and a direct cross wind. She settled down right nice...then pulled hard right and nosed over onto the prop and spinner. My prop was toast, and the spinner had a small dent (all expected), but was surprised me was why the model headed to the right so hard. The Hobby King strut on the right side, actually bent a bit on landing and caused the right wheel to lock up. I had a landing that was a bit harder then my usual...but no where near hard enough to do damage. But it did bend and that was my first flight.

So I took the model home, pulled the (!#$%&) Hobby King struts off and installed some good Robart struts and wheels. I then covered the landing gear doors with red Monokote and installed them. I've one more 17x6 Xoar prop on hand and I ordered three more from Tower tonight. I also changed out my battery in the aft part of the model and installed a 3300mha battery, that is 2 oz. lighter and when I checked my C.G. its now between 5-3/8 ~ 5-1/2" aft of the leading edge. To me the model grooves better with a slightly nose heavy C.G. then with the manual figure. I know some of you guys have flown at the book figure...but I checked what I set it at before...and it was at the 5-3/8 point when I first flew the model. If flew great for me then...so I repeated the same C.G. tonight. Surprising, this new battery is actually 300 mha larger then the heavier battery, and it is 2 oz. lighter. I also pulled the Lado's and set up my landing gear with solid Robart gear.

I'll let you know how Saturday works out for me...and there is suppose to be a high pressure system set in tomorrow and Saturday, so with any luck...I'll have better weather to fly. I also had a surprise at the flying field...one of the guys gave me his T.F. P-51D ARF he built and flew for five years. Yes...it is a bit warn and has a few dings...but this airframe flew with a O.S. 90 two stroke glow and a DLE 20 and has over 200 flights on it. It was just the airframe, and with my "B" conversion kit on hand...I'll make this a "B" model...and have two P-51's to fly again. My last "B" model lasted a good seven years for me and I've a replacement for her. I ordered a new cowl for it, canopy and decals from Tower, for I plan to make this a Red Tail too and will be recovering the model.

Soft Landings Always,
Bobby of Maui

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Last edited by Bob Paris; 05-13-2016 at 01:31 AM.
Old 05-13-2016, 06:15 AM
  #3244  
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I have my CG set to I think 5 1/4", could be 3/8", but it tracks much nicer than it did at the 5/8" mark. I have to dig around and get my Robarts struts too, the Eflite wires bend way too easy, and the last thing I need is a hung up gear when trying to land. Until then, no more flights with it. Hoping my next flight though, it track better on take off instead of pulling left and rolling left. That was scary on take off, thought for sure it was going down, but saved it and trimmed it out. She sure is pretty flying by too.
Old 05-13-2016, 11:45 AM
  #3245  
Bob Paris
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Hay Ackii,
I agree...the model does track better with a bit more forward C.G. This C.G. placement has been an on going discussion since the Top Flight first sold the model. Some state the book setting at 5-5/8" is best...but after flying two of these airframes...the best C.G. for me is at 5-3/8". I love how it will grove and get on step much faster with a more forward C.G.

Soft Landings Always,
Bobby of Maui
Old 05-15-2016, 08:24 PM
  #3246  
Bob Paris
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Aloha Gentlemen,
Well the weather gods...may she rest In peace...brought near calm winds and a perfect day to fly. It was crystal clear and winds right down the run way at about 5kts...perfect. That engine fired right up and purred. I took the runway and I brought the power up until the tail rose...and as I added power...a bit of rudder and faster then I can write this...she was in the air. Solid as a rock and with a little aileron trim...straight and true. Flew like an angel she did and made me proud. It was a gorgeous day and I managed to get three 15 minute flights. Wow...what fun and like my first two T.F. P-51's...made me proud. The landings were near perfection and all wheel landings too. I trim her out on approach and let her fly to the runway. With full flaps (45 deg.) the model fly's tail high...and with just a tad of elevator...the flippen model lands itself. Impressive. My last one lasted six years...and the way this one fly's...I'm going to do my best to ware out the engine. The C.G. (5-2/3") is perfect and at 2/3rds power...she grooves like on rails. This is one sweet flying airframe...and why I guess, the model is still available.

I built my first T.F. P51 in 1976...a "B" model of a Red Box kit. One had to do a bit of carving...like on Royal kits...but the end result was a great flying war bird. I used a Kraft KP7 Tx and Rx...with KPS 12 servo's. Worked perfect and a K&B .61 was a great match for this model. Fixed geared...for I wasn't able to find the new set Goldberg retracts, that just came out. So I made some nice gear doors for the model and painted it a fire engine red. I was stomping out forest fires and building heliports for the Dept. of Forestry that summer. I was out of South East Asia and looking for anything to do with aviation. Being a Rotor Head myself...this worked out great. On my off times I built my models...and borrowed the paint from Uncle Sam...bless his heart...for the use of some, Just a bit...and for some reason-they had enough red paint to paint every fire truck this side of the Continental Divide. So then rather let it go bad...put it to good use. I was 27 and having a ball with life. Shortly after this I went to collage, got my degree and never looked back. But that model was a superb flying model...just like this one. Top Flight got it right too...and just made a good flying model, better over the years.

I've yet to do any stall tests...but I'm working up to it. Right now...full power low level fly-bys...keep my smile going. And with that gas engine note...perfect.

I've been blessed with a war warn T.F. ARF from a buddy in our club-six + years old...but still has some life in her. I pulled out my T.F. "B" conversion kit...and I'm going to build another "B." I did it once before...and all you need to is remove the canopy, and every thing south of the instrument panel...down to the main horizontal brace. I remove everything and the model is opened up for easy access. You have a clear way to install the Robart retract tail wheel then...and simple to do...and...and it looks great too. Then add the kit parts for the turtle back, sand a bit and add the canopy. Presto...you have a "B." A bit of patch work and recover...and you have a new model to fly. This one will have full retracts to include a tail wheel retract unit. At the same time I beef up the main landing gear area in my wing too...its needed (at least for my kind of landings). My last one used a Robart tail wheel assembly for six years...and never failed me once. I have a new set of Lado retracts and are perfect for the main gear. I have had good luck with them and very easy to deal with-you just plug time into your Rx with a "Y" cord.

Soft Landings Always,

Bobby of Maui

Last edited by Bob Paris; 05-15-2016 at 08:46 PM.
Old 05-16-2016, 04:27 PM
  #3247  
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Wow Bob, glad you got her all ironed out, and back in the groove. I just got back from the Joe Nall event and all I can say is you have to put this one on your bucket list. Absolutely freak-in awesome! We got to see their full scale P-51 take off while standing on the edge of the grass runway. Man to hear that Merlin roar and go right by you and feel the wind from the big 4 blade, WHEW! I will post the video here later when I get it downloaded.
Old 05-16-2016, 07:00 PM
  #3248  
Bob Paris
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Hay RaptureBoy,
I know...the sound of a Merlin at full power is something to behold. I crewed Miss America for Howie Keef (sp?) back in the early 70's when he kept it at Fleet Wings Aviation at Santa Monica Airport. Mainly I cleaned and polished the airframe and was lucky enough to get a ride from home base to Reno one year. I was at the Reno air races last year and will go this year too. There is something about hearing big radials and Merlin's hauling butt in a full war emergence power setting flying by you. Just brings tears to my eyes... I kind of got stuck in the 30's and 40's aviation. I flew Twin Beach D-18's and a Howard 250 on a Fed-x run for years...it was a nice way to build twin time, but night work sucked. Radial engines have a sweet sound too and love the power that Howard 250 had.

The Red Tail is a sweet flying model and it was worth all the work to see that model in the air.

Soft Landings Always,
Bobby of Maui
Old 08-10-2016, 06:01 AM
  #3249  
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Hi Guys,

I am building a TF Mustang at the moment and must say it is one of the highest quality ARF's I have seen for the price. All Laser cut, Monokote covered, quality accessories and includes an aluminium spinner.

I mostly fly Patternships and this id my first ever warbird in years. I decided to go electric with my project and using the following setup:

Motor: Great Planes Rimfire 80
Battery : 6S 4500
ESC: Eflite 80 A with 5A BEC
Servos: JR 518 digitals
Prop: APC 15 x 8

With this setup I draw ~71 Amps max. and get over 1580 Watts. I did not get the chance to do a static thrust test but I estimate about 5 Kg of thrust which will give the model a Thrust to weight ratio of 1.11.

I have finished the Fuselage and currently working on installing electric retracts in the wing. I am using 14 mm Oleo struts and would like to have some ideas from you guys on how to attach the Retracts doors to the Oleo's.

Can you guys share some photos on how did you attach retract doors to the structs ?

Thanks
Old 08-10-2016, 08:13 AM
  #3250  
j301
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I used these:

http://centuryjet.com/shop/accessori...ting-brackets/

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