CorsairJock

My Feedback: (90)

Well, these long awaited ARFs are here, mine arrived today (5/20/2008). Some have been waiting since December 2007.

A few basics about this ARF:

The Full Scale
This ARF is about a 1/7 scale replica of an early P-51D flown by Capt Richard Peterson, 364th Fighter Squadron, 357th Fighter Group, 8th Air Force in October, 1944. This was not Capt Peterson's 1st Mustang: he earlier flew a Malcohm hooded P-51B. There is also a currently flying restored Mustang with this scheme, but it is painted glossy and has a yellow rudder.

Retracts
There were some obvious modifcations to the retracts and retract bays before these were shipped. In fact: they are NOT pre-installed, there are some wood parts which need to be assembled into the wings, and there is a note in the (retract) bag which states:
"At Top Flite we strive to produce the best airplanes on the market. Before we started shipping the P-51 Mustang .60 ARF we found that a couple of the parts did not meet our high quality standards. We have included the new upgraded parts with this addendum".

They appear very much like Robart, yet are different, and I cannot say who makes them. They DO have rather robust looking 5.02 mm/ 0.198" (LARGER than 3/16 in.) diameter struts installed, and appear to be at about 85 degree angle when down.

The fuselage has provision for intalling an air tank (IF optional air operated retracts are installed). See pic 8.

Main Wheels
I attempted to display the ruler over the wheel well, but it does not show up. I measured 3 5/8" across the widest part. It appears that if anyone wants to install wheels bigger than 3 1/2": they will have some work to do, as the wheel wells are one-piece, painted (aluminum color) fiberglass, blended into the wings. In fact, it appears that 3 1/2" wheels will be a somewhat snug fit, but that is what I intend to do. The wheels that come with this ARF have Dave Brown hubs, but appear to have some specially made 3 1/4" tires on them. I do not intend to use them.

Tail Feathers & Control Surfaces
Tail feathers are airfoil shaped. Elevators appear to be solid balsa, rudder is framed bals. Flaps are rounded at leading edges, all other control surfaces have wedge shaped leading edges.

Spinner
The spinner is all aluminum, painted, and is already cut for 2 blade prop (I will need to modify mine, as I intend to use a 4 blade APC 14.5 x 11. The included spinner nut adapters are for 5/16 x 24 thread motors shafts. This means that if you plan on using a Saito engine (which is my personal favorite fuel engine brand): you will have to purchase a seperate adapter nut with 8 mm x 1.25 thread. Dave Brown makes one for about $6, and it is available from Tower Hobbies.

Other Details & Small Parts
Main gear doors are heavy: seem to be made from solid fiberglass, but have nice detail.
Exhaust stacks look really nice, as does pilot and cockpit kit. There is also a 4 piece ( 2 of them are decals) instrumnet panel, which I will add pic of later

About This Thread
I highly encourage others who are building this Mustang to participate/ contribute. This thread isn't about me and/ or my Mustang, it is about helping any and all who are building this 'Stang so that we can ALL benefit from each others experiences.

CorsairJock

My Feedback: (90)

Table of Contents Page

RETRACTS:

....Retract Rail Modification (Top Flite modification): Posts 5

....Retract FAILURES!: Post 93 ~ 97

....Retract FIXES (Stock retract mod): post 112

....CenturyJet Retracts Installation: Posts 19, 23, 108

....Modifications to Stock Retracts/ Installing RoboStruts/ Using 3 1/2" wheels: Posts 43

....Retractable Tailwheel: Posts 44, 61

FLAPS:

....Installing the Flaps: Posts 9, 36

....Discussion on Setting Up Flaps: Posts 39 ~ 55

SAITO:

....Using a Saito engine: Posts 22, 25

....Saito 1.00 Questions and Answers: Posts 57, 62, 63

First Flights/ CG Discussion: Posts 78 ~ 82

submikester

My Feedback: (6)

Very nice, I hope you'll post detailed pics of the contents as a whole...

redjem13

Very nice!

Mine is scheduled to be delivered tomorrow.

~Matt

CorsairJock

My Feedback: (90)

The 'bag of wood' that comes with the retracts is obviously intended to strengthen the bond of the leading retract rail to the wing. It appears to me that Top Flite probably encounted a seperation of this front retract rail from the wing, and this fix is intended to lessen the possibility of that happening to the consumer. The parts weigh about 11 grams, so combined with epoxy will probably add about 1/2 oz total to the aircraft.

To install these parts, I found it necessary to remove (with a Dremel) a little bit of the the fiberglass wheel wells, which were protruding slightly into the retract bays. This is not mentioned in the manual.

The first thing I want to take on is the retracts. I want to use the stock mechanical retracts, but also intend to install 380 series offset RoboStruts on them, with some better looking, yet light 3 1/2" wheels (or maybe slightly smaller).

Problems I see right off is that the spring loop in the struts will prevent me from installing the RoboStruts UNLESS I move the loops farther up (about 5/8"?), closer to the retract unit. The loops in such a location do not have any clearance in the wells, and will not allow them to retract.

I guess I will have to assemble the retract bay re-inforcment parts and go from there.

Rather than begin another post when I make progress on this subject, I'll simply update this one, so check back in a day or so for revisions and pics.

MANFRED

My Feedback: (27)

Looks great, glad I ordered one! I'm thinking YS 110 with slimline pitts.

Bob Paris

My Feedback: (13)

CorsairJock,
I just received my kit today and I'm really impressed with the quality. It's more scale then any ARF I've built so far, and sure seems to be will built. My kit was very well boxed and no parts were damaged, and the covering was flawless. The mechanical retracts in this kit are robust and look well put together to me. I'm considering using 3 1/2" Robart scale wheels. But I'm not sure if they will fit, with the foam inserts.

I'm missing my wing anti-rotation dowl, and forward wing, hold down dowls. Other then this...so far my kit seems to be complete.

I just finished modifing a China/ARF P-51D to a "B" and I've a ST G90 in the "B." I'm stumped to what engine to install in this kit...for the incowl mufflers T.F. sells do not work well with the G90. I understand the ST G60 & G75 work ok with the T.F. incowl mufflers, but I sure don't want to cut up my cowl to install a Pitts style muffler in this "D" model...and I want to use the ST G90 in this airframe. I'm not thrilled with installing the engine inverted, but I don't see a G90 going in side mounted in the nose of this T.F. "D."

Does anyone make a muffler for the ST. G90, inverted that will not require large cutouts on the cowl ?

I use only 2 stroke glow engines on my models.

I am following your build on this model...so do keep the pictures coming in for all of us.

Soft Landings Always,
Bobby of Maui
AMA 15016

mimoore67

My Feedback: (51)

I wanted to make a few comments here, as I have been reading all the treads pertaining to this particular Mustang ARF! The outlines of this Mustang seem to be pretty good! Now realizing this is a ARF, "Scale" is a relative term, but I think we can say that his one looks good.

One thing I going to look into is the "main landing gear" position. If you look at the photo below, you notice that the wheels on the Mustang are ahead of the leading edge, whereas the wheels on the model are back a bit further. This brings up the problem of "nosing over" on grass fields that not smooth, mine included. Does it look like it might be a lot of work to somehow get the gear forward a bit????

Also, I am leading toward trying out the www.lado-tech.com retracts, as I don't want to deal with pneumatics. Probably start with the stock gear, then move up to the Lado's. The main gear also looks like it needs to be a tad longer as the wheel wells are not as close to the center of the wing to be scale! I know it's an ARF, but it looks like it could be scaled out really nice!

CorsairJock

My Feedback: (90)

Bob: I would think that the Robart 3 1/2" wheels would work, or any just about any 3 1/2" wheels for that matter. Any bigger than that tho will present some problems.
My nylon wing dowels (3) are in a bag with other small parts, such as wing bolts, control horns, etc.


Installing the Flaps
I installed the flaps (and ailerons) today, and I must say: I think the instructions leave something to be desired concerning flap installation. My biggest concern is that no mention is made on how deep into the flaps the hinges should be installed. It is obvious that the hinge line are 'sunk' into the flaps some, but how far (deep)? The instructions just tell you more or less push them in as far as they will go, trial fit to the wing (making sure that the flaps can be moved to within 1/64" of the wing trailing edge), then epoxy them on.
In my opinion: it is important that all 3 hinges be mounting in such a way that they hinge points (C/L of the hinge, or the center of the part that moves) are lined up with each other. If they aren't: they will 'fight' each other when the flaps are lowered. Altho slight mis-alignment will probably not cause any problems, I chose to install mine the following way:
I installed them onto the wings first, with the alignment tab points even with the trailing edge on the inboard ones, halfway between the point tips and where the tabs meet the round part of the hinges (on the hinge 'bearing' side) for the middle hinges, and with the tabs completely in the wing on the outermost hinges. This should keep them all in a straight line, with the outer ones having the movable parts sticking out slightly less, to go along with a shorter chord of the flaps toward the out ends.
Then I applied the Vaseline as the instructions suggested, and epoxied the flaps onto the hinges.

I hope that makes sense, I really don't have the time to read and re-read and try to make it more clear, maybe someone else can make sense of it and try to explain better.

Pictured are the flap hinges: exactly like Robart Hinge Points, only different (a term used by Japanese: exactly same, only different).

mimoore67

My Feedback: (51)

I'll disagree with on the first picture, I'm trying to show that the wheels need to be further out and that's is what I hope to do with this model, so the plane won't nose over. No matter the length of the landing gear, if it's behind the leading edge, it's my experience that the plane will nose over, even if your used the bigger tires.

The second picture obviously isn't a Top-Flite wing, but I was in a hurry and didn't say, what I was trying to illustrate. The length of the landing gear starts from just inside of the center of the wing. If you look at pictures of real Mustangs, you'll notice the inner gear doors are practically together. I know I'm nit picking and it's an ARF, but as a Pilot and having seen a lot of Mustangs in my life, I like that stance of a Mustangs, when the gear on a model is done right. Plus, if there is anyway to move the gear forward, i'll give it a try. I do understand your point about the thick balsa leading edge being used as a mount area for the gear.

Sorry, if I'm coming off like a JERK, but that's not my intention. There are a lot of ARF's out there, especially the CMP models that people in RCU have done a little extra detail and modificaton and have come up with some fabulous looking models, that look right on the ground and in the air.

CorsairJock

My Feedback: (90)

I don't think you are trying to be a jerk, I just think you chose a poor way to illustrate your point. What you should have done is show a picture of a Top Flite 60 size ARF, assembled, and from the same angle as the full scale. If you opt not to use the above mentioned model, then why not another model ( such as the wing) but again: from the same vantage point.

And I agree: moving the wheels farther forward is very beneficial for ground handling, especially on grass runways.

Either way, I don't want to take up any more cyberspace with this. It wastes my time and makes it more challenging for readers to find useful info.

mimoore67

My Feedback: (51)

Done, Corsair Jock!

Let's see some picture of that Model being built!

Bob Paris

My Feedback: (13)

CorsairJock,
I had no idea the dowls were plastic. I was looking for wood dowls...this is a first time for me to see a change from wood dowls to plastic dowls. I've had issues with wood dowls, working lose and waring away. I usually fix this with brass tubing, but it's a nice touch.

To be honest...I'm very inpressed with the model. I've built a few ARF's now...and I remember when all we had for an ARF company was Lanier. I must admit...all the Lanier models flew well enough...but the construction left much to be desired. I've been building ARF WWII fighters for ten years...and with out a doubt, this is one of the better renditions of the P-51D that I have ever seen. It has flaps, and the mechanical retracts look stronger then any other ARF in this size, that I've ever seen. I usually installed Robart mechanicals in all my ARF WWII fighters-but not this one, and the attention to detail is amazing. I am impressed, and for the money...to me, it's well worth the cost. I've built the old red box P-51D Top Flight put out 30 years ago, and several others after. This is one nice Mustang... : )

I'm still stumped on what engine to put into this airframe. I'm a two stroke guy, and I've never owned or flown four stroke engines. I see your going to use a four stroke...what make and displacement engine are you going to put into your model ?

I have a set of C.J. P-51 retracts in my P-51B...I wonder if they will fit into this airframe ? But I would like an air up, spring down air system.

I would install a tail wheel retract unit into this kit, like on my "B"...but I'm not real happy with the Robart plastic tail wheel retract unit...and I don't know anyone that makes a metal one that would fit into this model. It's going to be a bit if magic to do it anyway...and its realy kind of tight in this area to work in.

Soft Landings always,
Bobby of Maui

Bob Paris

My Feedback: (13)

Hay CorsairJock,
Well...I figured out what engine I'm going to use, and I had the flippen engine all the time... : ) . I'm going to install a K&B 1.00, and it drops right into the nose bay, with room to spare. This engine was purchased from Mr. C. Lee years ago, and I never had a model I would risk it in...until now. Its going to need a spacer...not a big one and I'm not sure exactlly how I will do this now. There is an issue with the exhaust on the engine, because this engine will be inverted, inside the cowl...the exhaust exits the top starboard side of the upper fixed cowl, above the scale exhaust area. I will need to modify the exhaust...but it fits easily into the model.

With the carb so low I will need to place my fuel tank as low as I can into the nose of this model.

I'm going to trial fit the C. Jet pneumatic retractable main gear tomorrow and I'll let you know how well they fit into the wing. If they fit...I'm going to exchange the gear from my "B" into this "D."

Soft landings always,
Bobby of Maui

jeffk464

Wow, I think thats the coolest engine set up I have ever seen.

Bob Paris

My Feedback: (13)

Hay CorsairJock,
I called Clarence Lee on the phone this morning, and he will be able to modify my muffler, so it can sit inverted in the model, and the exhaust to exit down. So the K&B 1.00 Aero is going into the model (I wonder if this is to much engine for this kit?). I am actually buying a new muffler from K&B, for they were in stock, and they will drop ship the new muffler to Mr. Lee for me (he is just around the corner from them in California) to modify. I need to get to work...so I'll check the C.J. P-51 retracts later this afternoon and will report what I find.

I did check my wheels and I do have a pair of Robart 3 1/4" scale wheels...just like I have in my P-51B. I may still buy the 3 1/2" wheels...and undecided yet to go with the wheels I have or opt for the larger ones.

Soft Landings always,
Bobby of Maui

Chris Smith

My Feedback: (2)

It seems to be a nice ARF. As usual the markings are after thoughts on most ARFs and not really good on this one either.

A lot of guys are going to spend effort putting scale touches and modifications to this airplane then stick the innaccurate US insignia on. It would be so easy for the maunufacturer to do a little research and make the US insignia right.

The stars are too small for the size blue circle and 1/8 surround, and the white bars do not reach in and touch the left and right star tips. They make ARFs look like toys. I will make a set out of monokote to replace them. Since the US insignia is the result of some simple geometry formula, a compass and ruler are all that is required.

Look closely at your research documentation for any P-51 or WWII aircraft for that matter. Any ole' star and bar won't do.

You guys are doing some great work on your kits so far.

Chris

CorsairJock

My Feedback: (90)

Well OK then Chris, let's compare:
The side markings do not appear to be an exact match, as you suggested, but not that far off either. The most obvious difference to me is the dorsal fin: it needs to be removed (which is what I planned on doing anyway).

In any event, since you know so much, perhaps you could help us less informed and tell us what the correct sizes should be (for 1/7th scale)?

Bob Paris

My Feedback: (13)

CorsairJock,
The Century Jet P-51 retracts will fit, but it will be a tight fit. I'm not sure how much of the fiberglass wheel well I'll need to remove and in my next post...I'll let you know. I will have to go with the 3 1/4" Robart scale wheels, for it is going to be a snug fit with these...3 1/2" wheels will not work, unless I cut my strut 1/4". I will need to modify and cut a bit to get the retracts to fit, but they will go. I was surprised they fit...and while I'm in there, I'll take a good look at the mounting rails. I have always beefed up this area on my other WWII ARF's...all needed this mod too. I will know more after a little surgery and fit these pneumatics, into the wing. I placed the gear inverted in the pictures to show the fit...but it gets turned around for instilation. I'm going to make up some 50/50 denatured alcohol-2 your epoxy, and coat every thing I can reach in the retract area.

I use Airtronics gear...and will go with standard 94102's for my flaps and ailerons.

It may take me a week or two to get my engine muffler and final the engine instilation. But I will be able to mount my engine and then, figure out where to mount my remote needle valve. I've never used a remote needle valve before, so this should be interesting.

Have a great weekend everyone...
Soft Landings always,
Bobby of Maui

Chris Smith

My Feedback: (2)

CorsairJock,

For most folks the ARF is fine as is. The problems with the US Insignia provided on the decal sheet would go un-noticed by most. So would the fact that C5*T as you pointed out, did not have a dorsal fin.

My comments pertain to the US Insignia only. Most people don't care or wouldn't notice. So below is for those who do.

The overall sizes are close, however it is not the size of the insignia that is wrong. It is the relationship of the white and blue parts of the insignia and how they go together. Repeating what I said in the previous post:

The stars are too small for the size blue circle and 1/8 surround, and the white bars do not reach in and touch the left and right star tips. Look closely again at any photo of a Mustang or any WWII aircraft of the period. Compare them with the decal.

The US Insignia is made up by combining three subparts
a. The star
b. The blue circle
c. the bars

All parts are proportioned based on the radius of the star. So...

a. The star tips shouldn't touch the edge of the blue circle; however , they should come within 1/8 of the star radius of the circle's edge. On the decal the white star is too small. The blue circle may be the right size for the airplane though. The star isn't.
b. The blue circle should be sized to the aircraft so that: It's radius is equal to the star's, plus 1/8th of the star's radius.
c. The bars (not including the blue edges) should equal the star's radius in length. There should also be no space between the inner top bar corner and the left and right tips of the star. Look at the decals. The tips of the star do not touch the white bars. Look again at a photo of the real insignia.

As I've said, most people don't care and wouldn't notice. I've even seen people place the insignia up side down on their models. My work background forced me to insure markings on the US military aircraft I was responsible for was done correctly due to the thousands of dollars involved. It has been handy in my scale modelling in case you're wondering.

Chris

sevans16

Just signing up for the thread. I just got one on order with the OS 91 II. I figured the 91 was cheap enough and sounds like it should fly it just fine.

CorsairJock

My Feedback: (90)

OK Chris, I see your point: the stars ARE too small for the background/ too much border area. I did a quick check of my Major Decals inventory and they are only slightly better. Oh well.

Saito Users, NOTE: The spinner adapter nuts are 5/16 x 24 thread (for O.S. 4 strokes and mosr 2 strokes). BUMMER! That means you may have to purchase something seperately from Tower or otherwise to get youe spinner to bolt up to your engine. The Saito 1.00 has 8 mm x 1.25 thread, so this adapter may work.
Maybe this one? May need to buy a long 10 x 32 allen bolt tho:
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXB957&P=K

OR, for a few dollars more:
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXHMF3&P=K

I have been removing weight from my fuselage: seems theres a lot of wood thate doesn't really need to be there, especially since I will be powering mine with electric power. I have removed a total 0f 71 grams/ 2.5 oz. Here are pics of lightening holes:

Bob Paris

My Feedback: (13)

Hay CorsiairJock,
I set my C.J. retract into the left wing tonight. It went in with minamal work...but there is one issue I'm not real happy with. the wheel sticks out of the wing a bit. To lower the retracts, I would need to cut down the mounting rails...then add more hard wood underneath the mouting rails for proper support. If you look...you will see that the 3 1/4" Robart scale wheel just fits into the wheel wheel. With the C.J. P-51 retracts, that is the largest wheel that will fit...unless you cut your strut 1/4"...then a 3 1/2" wheel will fit.

I also added a small piece of 1/64th. ply to stabilze the area I needed to cut out to allow the gear to retract, and also to cover the spring area for the mechanical retracts-no longer in use. The kit also has you install the air tank in the fuse, and I am going to see if I can fit every thing on or in the wing. I did remove the mechanical retract tube in wing-wheel well, used for the actuation rod.

I'm also going to add full wing invasion strips to this model, and I need to do this for visability in flight. With all the green around our flying site...it really helps. I know a few of you scale purists might cry in your beer at this... : )...but I doubt few will know the difference.

Soft Landings Always,
Bobby of Maui

CorsairJock

My Feedback: (90)

Bob, Looks pretty good, but could be better. Maybe CJ will start making sets specically for this bird, that are just like your's only with shorter struts? Looks like they could be 1/4 ~ 1/2" shorter? Think you could shorten them some? Sure would be nice to see some slightly bigger wheels in there. BTW: I am now committed to using the stock retracts with RoboStruts installed, I hope I don't regret that decision. By doing so, I am limited to wheels which are just under 3 1/2".

As for the wheel poking out of the well: I noticed that the retract mount rails are not parallel with the bottom of the wing, and are at least partly responsible for the problem. I plan on using the stock retracts, but with the struts shortened (3/4" off the tops) and reversed so that the strut coils move the struts DEEPER into the wheel wells, rather that farther out. I plan to install offset RoboStruts on the stock, but shortened wire struts, just below the coils. This should result in something very simular to your's. BUT, if the wheels are poking out of the wells, I plan to use a Ernst motor thrust offset plate, cut into 4 strips and install between the retract units and the retract rails, so that the gears units will be parallel to the bottom of the wings, and hopefully allow FULL retraction.

My RoboStruts will arrive on Tuesday, I'll be working 12 hour days again, so I probably won't have any results to post until at least Wed. evening.
BTW: my Robart retractable nosewheel with 1/8" diameter strut arrives same day (which I plan on converting to retractable tailwheel). Too bad they didn't arrive before this weekend: I finally have a little time to work on it but I don't have the parts I need.

Speaking of retractable tailwheel: there are not any good/ easy options. The Robarts are not really well suited for this bird, niether is the CenturyJet mechanical tailwheel which is supposedly a P-51 retract. For one thing: the Mustang tailwheel retrafts FORWARD into the fuselage, not to the rear. This has me looking at mechanical nosewheel retracts designed to '.25 ~ .40 size' planes, and which I hope to adapt a Sullivan sprung tailwhhel strut to. Currently, I have B&D unit which I picked up at the Toledo show for $20. It houses a 1/8" diameter strut and has a steering arm which can easily be set up for pull-pull operation. I just checked the Robart specs and it appears that their unit is slightly bigger, and does not included an arm which can be set up for pull-pull.
Now, I just spotted this one, and would like to know more about it (dimension/ strut diameter):
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...?ProdID=HAN159
http://www.advantagehobby.com/produc...cat=691&page=1

The price is ceratinly right, and it does have an arm which can be set up for pull-pull. Anybody have one that can post some specs?

lrb75

My Feedback: (12)

For the Saito you need Tru Turn pc#0823A. It is more expensive but you should really use a double jam nut on the four strokes.