ForkedTailDevil

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Hey guys...i ran across something purty interesting the other day...its called fliteskin. I'm sure most of you have heard of it but i just found out. Its basically pre-preped fiberglass sheeting ( in an effort to eliminate sheeting w/ wood and countless hours of sanding). I'm bout to start a mesiter project over the fall and i was maybe considering using it. I contacted the owner with hopes of getting a sample sheet so i can see what its all about. Has anybody used it before and had luck??????? Price isn't to terribly bad either. I'd say it would almost come out even when comparing buying the materials to glass an airplane the normal way. Any info would be great thanks!!!!

Bubs

here's the url: www.fliteskin.com

andernamen

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That looks awesome! If it works out, I'm sure we'll see some arf's or kits based on using this system. Sounds very easy to use.

khodges

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I was told about this stuff from a guy in my club. I contacted them and got a sample about a week ago. The thicker sheet (0.010) is slightly thinner than 1/64 ply. The thinner sheet (0.0070) is about like a sheet of stiff paper, thickness-wise. Both are very flexible, you could easily sheet around a leading edge on a 1/5 or 1/6 warbird with the thicker sheet. NEITHER TYPE WILL FOLLOW COMPOUND CURVES. I am considering using it over balsa sheeting on my BirdDog, but don't think I'll use it as a stand-alone sheet. I haven't experimented with the samples much yet, I may change my mind, but it seems like it will still give a fair amount between wing ribs and longerons, unless they are fairly close together (say, less than 2 inches). My plan right now is to use thinner balsa sheeting and then laminate the thicker fliteskin over it. One thing is for sure, it will save a TON of sanding, and when painted should look very much like a metal finish. If used as a stand-alone sheeting, it will make a lighter skin than balsa/epoxy/fiberglass, I think.

The samples I got are about 4 x 8 inches.

saramos

I covered the fuselage and control surfaces of my modified Sig 4 * with the .007 Fliteskin and really like the stuff. You can achieve razor sharp trialing edges with it. You can overhang the skin past the rear spar of your wings and stabs to create gap shrouds for your control surfaces. I have a Top Flite P-51B project that I will be covering the wings, stabs and control surfaces with the .010. You can also find generic G10 for less cost too. Here's one source

http://k-mac-plastics.net/g10-fr4-sheets.htm

Here's photos of the 4* and a photo of a mock-up I made for the P-51 to work out the gear geometry.

Scott.

LDM

My Feedback: (15)

I have used it for flaps ect , I wanted to sheet my bare wing , the owners claim that sheeting with wood is over kill when useing the .10 sheeting from fliteskin . I know that on thin wood , its make it very very ridgid , but open strustures are exactly as described above , its a matter of rib spaceing . They do state to sheet over the leading edge first then over lap over the wing .
I have made flaps for a 66" seafury and plan on my P40 Flaps with this stuff . Also great for lineing wheel wells and retract bays for strenghth

khodges

My Feedback: (1)

I did some fooling around with it this morning. A while back, I cut 4 inch square pieces of common sheeting material (different thicknesses of balsa, aluminum flashing, lithoplate and the thinner hobby ply and weighed them on a digital scale powder scale that is accurate to 0.001 gram. I did the same to both thicknesses of Fliteskin. These are the results I got:

0.007" weighs 0.73 grams per 4 sq. inches

0.010" weighs 1.15 grams per 4 sq. inches. To compare other sheeting material:

1/64" hobby ply is 0.96 grams per 4 sq. inches

1/32" hobby ply is 1.58 grams per 4 sq. inches

1/8" balsa is 1.28 grams per 4 sq. inches

3/32" balsa is 1.23 grams per 4 sq. inches

1/16" balsa is 1.01 grams per 4 sq. inches

aluminum lithoplate is 1.42 grams per 4 sq. inches

Balsa weight will vary due to grade and moisture content, but you can see where the fliteskin falls. It will puncture fairly easily with a small blunt stick like a 1/8" dowel, so a sharp hit like a fencepost or door jamb will damage it about like traditional fiberglassed balsa, but the glassed balsa seems to resist tearing better.

It sure makes a nice looking skin, though. Your 4-Star looks great, Saramos.
I think I will maybe make my control surfaces using the 0.010, but I will likely still skin with a thinner balsa than I'd otherwise use, and then laminate the Fliteskin over it. I figure the weight will be similar to or maybe slightly less than traditional fiberglassed balsa, and I won't have all the sanding to do, plus by overlapping the fliteskin properly, I can mimic the panel lines on my plane.

SCALECRAFT

My Feedback: (13)

I'm not saying I know everything about composites, but it looks like sheets of fiberglass laid up on a smooth surface.

Experiment you'll see what i mean.

Steve

jaka

Hi!
It is epoxy /fiberglass!

LDM

My Feedback: (15)

Being an advid person who has used it (again only for building thin flying surfaces over balsa ect ) I feel that very thin sheeting with flight skin would work , but again the company swears its not needed . I tested a piece over my FW190 wing spar yesterday -aprox 3 & 1/2 by 3 & 7/8 , the center is as weak as a donut !!!! . I know if I added CA to the entire surface it will turn rock hard , but that is a lot of CA when doing an entire wing . NOw when in the same manner I place the same size piece of a thing sheet of balsa , moderate CA and you have a rock solid surface .
I also dont belive compound surfaces will be as easy as stated by the company. I think you need to apply the compound surface first , creating a scale panel line on the top and bottom sheet of the wing , then but the top and bottom surface wing sheeting against the new edge . If you try to make the top sheeting bend over the leading edge with .10 thickness you will be splits and cracks .
Aslo , one more thing about this product , I know from CMP planes that any flex in a painted fiberglass thin surface means paint chips, so if the wing is not sheeted and you follow the direction from the factory , I belive you will get major paint chipping when the wing is stress in normal flight

SCALECRAFT

My Feedback: (13)

LDM

In comparison to a monkoted covered model, one can see the fliteskin point. I think fliteskin should be looked at more as a finish/paint ready surface than a structural component. again similar to monokote. Although i have never seen a sheet, I can only guess that the glass is between 2 to 4 ounce glass sheet from the previous posted thickness info. Maybe a bit more structural than monokote though.

Although a bit different, and just as info, our models are laid up between 4-6oz glass in "as needed" combinations per airframe. very light, durable and resilient.

Latex paint will flex along with the glass skin. People get paint to stick to monokote.

I would look at the skin as a stronger monokote thats harder to apply and a bit heavier, But will not wrinkle in the sun.


Heating the sheet with a heat gun will make it a bit more pliable. How pliable is the question.

Steve

khodges

My Feedback: (1)

Given the size of the weave that is visible only in the 0.007 size, it looks like no more that 0.75 oz cloth. The 0.007 has a yellowish color, the 0.010 is translucent clear, but unless you tear it, you can't see the weave of the fabric in the 0.010. It looks like the same size fabric as the lighter stuff, with a thicker epoxy coat. It's waaaay more structural than MonoCrap.......er, Kote. I can see building a .40 or .60 size warbird and sheeting it with this stuff only and having a strong surface and a wingloading to be expected for a warbird model. Fliteskin's recommendation is to use the thinner sheeting for control surfaces, and the heavier sheeting for everything else, basically.

On a large model, such as the TF giant scales, the thicker stuff would be ideal for control surfaces, and then maybe sheet the remainder of the model with thinner-than-usual balsa, and apply the thinner fliteskin in cut panels over the balsa. You'd get your panel lines and a smooth finish, and a strong, harder to puncture surface without much, if any, gain in weight over traditional 'glassing over balsa. Anything larger, and I personally would only use it as an overlayment. By cutting control surfaces "shorter", and then allowing the fliteskin to overhang the shortened edges so that top and bottom surfaces met, you'd still achieve the sharp edge than a metal-skinned plane has

Fliteskin categorically states it will not follow compound curves. If it will soften with heat, it might follow some minor compund curves, such asa wingtip, but I wonder what it will do to the finish, such as wrinkle or warp. Heating is something I was planning to try, but haven't got around to yet,

If fliteskin were available in a slightly thicker, maybe 0.015 or 0.020 sheet, I think you could use it as a stand alone skin on most any large model, although it would lose some of its flexibility on sharper curves. Those could be done with the thinner sheets over a balsa underlayment.

The real appeal in this stuff is the ready-to-paint surface once it's in place,.

jeff naul

My Feedback: (16)

the web site that saramos posted shows .020 skin in many sizes.

khodges

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The only size I saw on that site in the material equivalent to fliteskin in 0.020 was 12z12". Fliteskin has 0.015 and 0.020 in 12z8" pieces and says that custom sizes are available. Out of curiosity, I think I'll e-mail them and see what prices are like. I wonder how much the weight increases with thickness?

billk101

My Feedback: (1)

Fliteskin is actually a product referred to as G-10/FR-4 Epoxy Sheet

G-10/FR-4 is a thermosetting industrial laminate consisting of a continuous filament glass cloth material with an epoxy resin binder. This product, first introduced in the 1950's, has characteristics of high strength, excellent electrical properties and chemical resistance. These properties are maintained not only at room temperature but also under humid or moist conditions.

Today what is called G-10 is actually FR-4, the flame retardant version of G-10. The material FR-4 can usually be used where G-10 is specified, however G-10 should not be used where FR-4 is specified.

Both G-10 and FR-4 are rated at 285 degree F continuous operating temperature. Because they are thermosets, no melting will occur with these grades, however charring will be observed after extended periods above the temperature rating. FR-4 has a flammability rating of 94 V-0.

With these outstanding characteristics, it is easy to understand why G-10/FR-4 is such a versatile material and is used in a wide variety of applications.

Properties:
High dielectric strength
Radiation resistant
High tensile strength
Low cold flow or creep
Chemically resistant
High flexural strength
Dimensional stability
Low moisture absorption
Low dissipation factor
High impact strength

Applications
Electrical equipment Solder Frames
Aerospace conditions Test fixtures
Rocket cases Medical diagnostic
Antenna insulators Circuit board holders
Test boards Terminal boards
End plates Underwater conditions
Cryogenic insulation

Information source: http://www.polymerplastics.com/composite_g10.shtml

LDM

My Feedback: (15)

Bill , great info , I always wondered if G10-sold by the jet guys and used for control horns ect , was a thicker version of the flitskin .
I think Bob Forenzajet web site sells g10 in small sheets .
Again dont misunderstand my intrepatation , I have had nothing but total success with flitskin on flaps ect and warbirds in the 120 size 70" span

jeff naul

My Feedback: (16)

36X48" ks-5680 part number $51.40

cimara

Guys you might want to check this sight out looks like the same stuff as flight skin (I could be wrong) but they have it in thicker sheets http://www.acp-composites.com/acp-fs.htm
http://www.deltronix.net/cgi/acp_display.exe