ZIROLI F9F PANTHER BUILD
08-23-2009, 07:08 PM
#1
ZIROLI F9F PANTHER BUILD
My buddy sold me his Ziroli Panther kit.
The parts are from Ziroli (plans, canopy, etc).
The kit is a full kit from precision cut kits.
http://www.precisioncutkits.com/
He has the bulk of the fuse framed up.
The gear is Robart with a generic set of wheels and brakes.
Robart Gear:
http://www.robart.com/retracts/12-24lbSpecial.aspx
Wheels and brakes: Great Northern models:
http://s43500.storefront-solutions.c...?categoryid=34
I won't be starting on this until Winter but wanted to start a post so those who have experience with this kit, can post their knowledge on "do's and don't's" since a turbine will be added and this kit was originally made for a DF with a glow engine.
I'm figuring that I can get her in the air for under four grand (which is pretty good for a jet!).
I'm hoping this thread will get a few others involved that may not have the $$$ to buy jet ARF's and composites.
It's also for those who want a more docile jet that flies more like a WW II fighter speed versus the upper limits of 200 MPH that can get a plane quickly out of sight.
With a wing span of only 72", this bird should be able to fly at any field that can accommodate an IMAA legal WW II warbird.
The parts are from Ziroli (plans, canopy, etc).
The kit is a full kit from precision cut kits.
http://www.precisioncutkits.com/
He has the bulk of the fuse framed up.
The gear is Robart with a generic set of wheels and brakes.
Robart Gear:
http://www.robart.com/retracts/12-24lbSpecial.aspx
Wheels and brakes: Great Northern models:
http://s43500.storefront-solutions.c...?categoryid=34
I won't be starting on this until Winter but wanted to start a post so those who have experience with this kit, can post their knowledge on "do's and don't's" since a turbine will be added and this kit was originally made for a DF with a glow engine.
I'm figuring that I can get her in the air for under four grand (which is pretty good for a jet!).
I'm hoping this thread will get a few others involved that may not have the $$$ to buy jet ARF's and composites.
It's also for those who want a more docile jet that flies more like a WW II fighter speed versus the upper limits of 200 MPH that can get a plane quickly out of sight.
With a wing span of only 72", this bird should be able to fly at any field that can accommodate an IMAA legal WW II warbird.
09-06-2009, 07:25 PM
#6
RE: ZIROLI F9F PANTHER BUILD
pic 1/2:
While at Muncie's warbird champaign, I checked out Dave and Richard's Ziroli panthers.
pic 3-6:
Dave changed his top hatch so the front has some ply that slides into the fuse and two latch pins hold the back on.
I forgot to get pictures of Richard's hatch but he made the front square with dowels and two screws to hold the rear on.
pic 7-9:
Dave's turbine/hardware arrangement.
pic 10-11:
Dave's elevator and rudder servos.
Videos:
F9F Ziroli Panther:
(Dave Chew)
Taxi:
http://www.rcuvideos.com/video/f9f
take off:
http://www.rcuvideos.com/video/f9f-3
landing:
http://www.rcuvideos.com/video/f9f-4
While at Muncie's warbird champaign, I checked out Dave and Richard's Ziroli panthers.
pic 3-6:
Dave changed his top hatch so the front has some ply that slides into the fuse and two latch pins hold the back on.
I forgot to get pictures of Richard's hatch but he made the front square with dowels and two screws to hold the rear on.
pic 7-9:
Dave's turbine/hardware arrangement.
pic 10-11:
Dave's elevator and rudder servos.
Videos:
F9F Ziroli Panther:
(Dave Chew)
Taxi:
http://www.rcuvideos.com/video/f9f
take off:
http://www.rcuvideos.com/video/f9f-3
landing:
http://www.rcuvideos.com/video/f9f-4
09-06-2009, 08:21 PM
#7
RE: ZIROLI F9F PANTHER BUILD
suggestions from Richard:
1. use 5 ply grade formers for landing gear/wing tube area.
2. add aluminum/5 ply bar across open top former where CG is located.
3. Add balsa sheer webbing (perpendicular) to stab and main wing spar.
4. best not to use festo on suction side of connections.
ie: UAT tank.
BVM has good UAT tank with push on connectors.
http://www.bvmjets.com/Pages/uat1.htm
5. For jetcat P-70, 80 oz's of fuel needed.
B&B has square tanks.
http://bennettbuilt.com/
6. jet pilot, 1/6 from hanger 9.
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...ProdID=HAN8301
7. white plastic tanks/nose.
wing tanks: two layers of 2 oz FG cloth
nose tip: two layers of 6 oz FG cloth.
8. turbine stainless steal pipe:
get cut to size after turbine installed from TAM jet:
http://www.tamjets.com/pipes.php
1. use 5 ply grade formers for landing gear/wing tube area.
2. add aluminum/5 ply bar across open top former where CG is located.
3. Add balsa sheer webbing (perpendicular) to stab and main wing spar.
4. best not to use festo on suction side of connections.
ie: UAT tank.
BVM has good UAT tank with push on connectors.
http://www.bvmjets.com/Pages/uat1.htm
5. For jetcat P-70, 80 oz's of fuel needed.
B&B has square tanks.
http://bennettbuilt.com/
6. jet pilot, 1/6 from hanger 9.
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...ProdID=HAN8301
7. white plastic tanks/nose.
wing tanks: two layers of 2 oz FG cloth
nose tip: two layers of 6 oz FG cloth.
8. turbine stainless steal pipe:
get cut to size after turbine installed from TAM jet:
http://www.tamjets.com/pipes.php
09-06-2009, 08:49 PM
#8
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RE: ZIROLI F9F PANTHER BUILD
I just KNOW I'm going to catch a lot of 'ell for this 
...however I'm going to ask anyway. I've always been interested in the F9F and was....er....ah....wondering if anyone has ever done this model or something like it, maybe a tad smaller, in a glow design (engine mounted sidewinder or inverted). My pockets aren't deep enough for a turbine and I know zip about ducted fans. I'd just like to do it for a sport model that can handle grass or hard runways. Fire away....
Soft landings.
Joe
...however I'm going to ask anyway. I've always been interested in the F9F and was....er....ah....wondering if anyone has ever done this model or something like it, maybe a tad smaller, in a glow design (engine mounted sidewinder or inverted). My pockets aren't deep enough for a turbine and I know zip about ducted fans. I'd just like to do it for a sport model that can handle grass or hard runways. Fire away....Soft landings.
Joe
09-07-2009, 06:39 PM
#10
My Feedback: (43)
RE: ZIROLI F9F PANTHER BUILD
This plane is perfect for the new electric Dynamax setups. They put out 15-20 pounds of thrust on 12-14 cells. The fan and motor is only 400 bucks! The esc and batterys are several hundred more, and you are flying, with authority!
09-27-2009, 08:30 PM
#11
RE: ZIROLI F9F PANTHER BUILD
Just got my P70 that I got from my buddy.
Normally, I would buy new on engines but, since he is a good friend of mine, I have no problem buying used.
Stats from JetCat's web site:
Thrust: 17.5 LB @ 123,000 RPM
Weight: 2.6 LB, incl. starter
Diameter: 3.7 inches
RPM Range: 35,000 - 123,000
Exhaust gas temp.: 620°C
Fuel consumption: 8 oz per/min at full power
Fuel: Jet A1, 1-K kerosene
Lubrication: approximately 5% synthetic turbine oil in the fuel
Maintenance interval: 25 hours
P70 Thrust Chart
RPM Thrust
38,000 0.75
93,000 8.0
101,000 10.0
107,000 12.0
113,000 14.0
118,000 16.0
123,000 17.5
Normally, I would buy new on engines but, since he is a good friend of mine, I have no problem buying used.
Stats from JetCat's web site:
Thrust: 17.5 LB @ 123,000 RPM
Weight: 2.6 LB, incl. starter
Diameter: 3.7 inches
RPM Range: 35,000 - 123,000
Exhaust gas temp.: 620°C
Fuel consumption: 8 oz per/min at full power
Fuel: Jet A1, 1-K kerosene
Lubrication: approximately 5% synthetic turbine oil in the fuel
Maintenance interval: 25 hours
P70 Thrust Chart
RPM Thrust
38,000 0.75
93,000 8.0
101,000 10.0
107,000 12.0
113,000 14.0
118,000 16.0
123,000 17.5
10-16-2009, 09:30 PM
#13
RE: ZIROLI F9F PANTHER BUILD
My UAT (ultimate air trap: any air in the fuel line will kill the engine), fuel lines plus a few other items came in and my buddy Joe came over to help me set up a bench test of the engine.
As you can see in the pictures, there's a lot more 'stuff' to connect up to run a turbine.
Once you get everything set up though, it's pretty easy to start as the ECU controls and checks the startup.
I'm using a two channel system to start up the turbine. I'm using the three position aux 2 toggle and the throttle.
Important items are setting up fail safe so the engine dies if signal is lost from the transmitter and also inputting all the throttle/trim settings to the ECU.
Once all that's done, I just put the aux 2 toggle to center, move the throttle to full and after about 4 seconds, move the throttle back to idle. The ECU then sequences through its steps to start up the engine and insure all temperatures/RPM's are functioning properly.
The P70 idles around 38,000 RPM's and maxes out at around 123,000 RPM's.
Bench test of the turbine:
(idle and full throttle).
http://www.rcuvideos.com/video/jetcat-P70-bench-test
As you can see in the pictures, there's a lot more 'stuff' to connect up to run a turbine.
Once you get everything set up though, it's pretty easy to start as the ECU controls and checks the startup.
I'm using a two channel system to start up the turbine. I'm using the three position aux 2 toggle and the throttle.
Important items are setting up fail safe so the engine dies if signal is lost from the transmitter and also inputting all the throttle/trim settings to the ECU.
Once all that's done, I just put the aux 2 toggle to center, move the throttle to full and after about 4 seconds, move the throttle back to idle. The ECU then sequences through its steps to start up the engine and insure all temperatures/RPM's are functioning properly.
The P70 idles around 38,000 RPM's and maxes out at around 123,000 RPM's.
Bench test of the turbine:
(idle and full throttle).
http://www.rcuvideos.com/video/jetcat-P70-bench-test
10-17-2009, 05:59 PM
#16
RE: ZIROLI F9F PANTHER BUILD
Rich,
Every pilot that I've talked to, likes their Ziroli Panther.
I enjoyed flying with you this season: will do it again, next year.
Bill,
As you can see in one of the pictures, the P-38 is in the 'hanger' (as most of them are as it's getting cold here while it's getting warm where you are).
The only ones not yet in the 'hanger' is my yellow spit and Balsausa 1/3 scale Nieuport.
The rest are in the 'hanger':
pic 1:
Ziroli B-25: stripped and needs to be 'overhauled'.
Yellow P-38: ready to fly (hoping for next summer).
pic 2:
Ziroli F9F: only fuse framed up, so far.
Ziroli P-47: this summer, I flew the wings off her as well as the C-45.
Busy summer as I went through about 35 gallons of gas (17 meets will do it, especially being at a lot of them for 3-5 days: I love retirement!).
Ziroli P-61: (bottom) full kit, everything but the engines and wheels/brakes (Darrell's doing those for me).
pic 3:
Yellow AT-6
Ziroli C-45: I love flying this twin.
comparf F4U: will definitely be finished in the 'off' season so it can go on next year's 'tour'.
pic 4:
TF F4U
pic 5:
Palmer tigercat
pic 6:
BVM F-86: still has OS DF, will convert to turbine after the F9F.
pic 7:
VQ P-61: will use for reference when building the Ziroli and then sell off.
pic 8:
New Yellow P-40 with DA-50 and retracts: ready to be built.
pic 9:
Ziroli P-51 and old yellow P-40: both were in my shop fire.
New full kit for the P-51.
I've got enough project to keep me busy for awhile!
Every pilot that I've talked to, likes their Ziroli Panther.
I enjoyed flying with you this season: will do it again, next year.
Bill,
As you can see in one of the pictures, the P-38 is in the 'hanger' (as most of them are as it's getting cold here while it's getting warm where you are).
The only ones not yet in the 'hanger' is my yellow spit and Balsausa 1/3 scale Nieuport.
The rest are in the 'hanger':
pic 1:
Ziroli B-25: stripped and needs to be 'overhauled'.
Yellow P-38: ready to fly (hoping for next summer).
pic 2:
Ziroli F9F: only fuse framed up, so far.
Ziroli P-47: this summer, I flew the wings off her as well as the C-45.
Busy summer as I went through about 35 gallons of gas (17 meets will do it, especially being at a lot of them for 3-5 days: I love retirement!).
Ziroli P-61: (bottom) full kit, everything but the engines and wheels/brakes (Darrell's doing those for me).
pic 3:
Yellow AT-6
Ziroli C-45: I love flying this twin.
comparf F4U: will definitely be finished in the 'off' season so it can go on next year's 'tour'.
pic 4:
TF F4U
pic 5:
Palmer tigercat
pic 6:
BVM F-86: still has OS DF, will convert to turbine after the F9F.
pic 7:
VQ P-61: will use for reference when building the Ziroli and then sell off.
pic 8:
New Yellow P-40 with DA-50 and retracts: ready to be built.
pic 9:
Ziroli P-51 and old yellow P-40: both were in my shop fire.
New full kit for the P-51.
I've got enough project to keep me busy for awhile!
10-21-2009, 08:16 PM
#18
RE: ZIROLI F9F PANTHER BUILD
pic 1/2/3:
Organize first.
My 'plane' room where all my parts are kept were in a shambles so I first had to spend a few days getting everything organized before I can do any building.
Home depot has some cheap prices on plastic containers.
Going to need servo brackets.
(I'm 'easing' into this build slowly!)
pic 4:
Cut up some 1/8" thick aluminum 'L' angle into a size more suitable for servos!
pic 5:
Marked, center punched and drilled pilot holes for the screws.
pic 6:
#41 drill for the final hole and then tapped two of the holes for 4X40 button head machine screws and two servo hex head screws will hold the 'L' bracket to the ply mounting.
pic 7/8:
Got to get some work done on my daughter's 90 year old house before getting 'heavy' into model building.
I put in 22 new windows with all new trim, new bead board chair rail and a new 'full wall' cabinets for her study.
Should be about winding down for her project for this year.
Organize first.
My 'plane' room where all my parts are kept were in a shambles so I first had to spend a few days getting everything organized before I can do any building.
Home depot has some cheap prices on plastic containers.
Going to need servo brackets.
(I'm 'easing' into this build slowly!)
pic 4:
Cut up some 1/8" thick aluminum 'L' angle into a size more suitable for servos!
pic 5:
Marked, center punched and drilled pilot holes for the screws.
pic 6:
#41 drill for the final hole and then tapped two of the holes for 4X40 button head machine screws and two servo hex head screws will hold the 'L' bracket to the ply mounting.
pic 7/8:
Got to get some work done on my daughter's 90 year old house before getting 'heavy' into model building.
I put in 22 new windows with all new trim, new bead board chair rail and a new 'full wall' cabinets for her study.
Should be about winding down for her project for this year.
10-22-2009, 04:01 PM
#21
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RE: ZIROLI F9F PANTHER BUILD
I heard it's Sam, Sam, the hatch man but after seeing those cabinets I would beg to differ. Lets call him Sam, Sam the Cabinet man! For the love of god when does he find the time....?????
11-10-2009, 06:15 PM
#22
RE: ZIROLI F9F PANTHER BUILD
I've finally got around to starting on the panther.
Plans:
pic 1-3:
The ziroli has three sheets for the panther.
I've got two on the floor in the basement and the third is the wings/stab sheet that's on the table.
I'm using a hollow core door for my build surface (cheap and level).
Stabilizer:
pic 4:
S1 rib was missing so I made a copy of the rib and used double sided tape from home depot to adhere it to a piece of 1/8" thick balsa.
pic 5:
A scroll saw made quick work of cutting just outside the line.
pic 6:
some sand paper glued to a paint stick finished off the edges of the rib.
pic 7-9:
The ribs are pretty thin so pins weren't an option for me to hold the ribs 'in place'.
Instead I used weights and first CA'ed the long straight TE spar to each rib.
One thing that I like about ZAP is the fine tip they give you so you don't waste a lot of CA when applying it to the balsa.
pic 10/11:
The LE was then CA'ed to the front of the ribs.
I did the inside rib and the far outside rib first and then moved each rib so they were flush to the LE.
Some ribs were a little long and some a little short so I just adjusted the front of the ribs to be flush with the LE.
I did the TE first to insure all ribs were aligned with each other.
Even though each rib may not be parallel to each other, I view it more important to have the TE and LE to be perfectly straight.
Plans:
pic 1-3:
The ziroli has three sheets for the panther.
I've got two on the floor in the basement and the third is the wings/stab sheet that's on the table.
I'm using a hollow core door for my build surface (cheap and level).
Stabilizer:
pic 4:
S1 rib was missing so I made a copy of the rib and used double sided tape from home depot to adhere it to a piece of 1/8" thick balsa.
pic 5:
A scroll saw made quick work of cutting just outside the line.
pic 6:
some sand paper glued to a paint stick finished off the edges of the rib.
pic 7-9:
The ribs are pretty thin so pins weren't an option for me to hold the ribs 'in place'.
Instead I used weights and first CA'ed the long straight TE spar to each rib.
One thing that I like about ZAP is the fine tip they give you so you don't waste a lot of CA when applying it to the balsa.
pic 10/11:
The LE was then CA'ed to the front of the ribs.
I did the inside rib and the far outside rib first and then moved each rib so they were flush to the LE.
Some ribs were a little long and some a little short so I just adjusted the front of the ribs to be flush with the LE.
I did the TE first to insure all ribs were aligned with each other.
Even though each rib may not be parallel to each other, I view it more important to have the TE and LE to be perfectly straight.
11-10-2009, 06:19 PM
#23
RE: ZIROLI F9F PANTHER BUILD
Stabilizer (cont)
pic 1:
Each rib has 'stand offs' to keep all ribs aligned with each other.
The full kit is from precision cut kits.
pic 2:
I used a razor saw to trim off excess balsa.
pic 3:
Gussets were cut (grain of wood parallel to the hypotenuse) and glued in using carpenter's glue.
I use an old contact lens bottle to apply small amounts of carpenter's glue.
I'll leave this 'cook' awhile to insure the carpenter's glue is dry so no warps occur.
pic 1:
Each rib has 'stand offs' to keep all ribs aligned with each other.
The full kit is from precision cut kits.
pic 2:
I used a razor saw to trim off excess balsa.
pic 3:
Gussets were cut (grain of wood parallel to the hypotenuse) and glued in using carpenter's glue.
I use an old contact lens bottle to apply small amounts of carpenter's glue.
I'll leave this 'cook' awhile to insure the carpenter's glue is dry so no warps occur.
11-11-2009, 12:32 AM
#24
RE: ZIROLI F9F PANTHER BUILD
Stabilizer (cont)
pic 1:
The kit was missing the 1/8"X1/4" spar strips for the bottom of the stab so I used a MAS balsa stripper (MA4000).
pic 2:
The bottom spars were inserted into the slots, but before I CA'ed them, I uprighted the stab, weighted it and then CA'ed the bottom spars to insure no warping. Trying to CA the bottom spars with the stab upside down seemed like the stab was too flexible to get a warp free bond.
pic 3:
With all the spars in, I next added shear webbing (grain perpendicular to the spars) to the inside six ribs for this evening (I'll do the rest of them, tomorrow).
As with the bottom spars, the stab was held down with weights, and then carpenter's glue and some clamps will hold them over night.
The original design is for a much slower DF power so the spar needs additional strength to handle the G's from the turbine engine.
pic 1:
The kit was missing the 1/8"X1/4" spar strips for the bottom of the stab so I used a MAS balsa stripper (MA4000).
pic 2:
The bottom spars were inserted into the slots, but before I CA'ed them, I uprighted the stab, weighted it and then CA'ed the bottom spars to insure no warping. Trying to CA the bottom spars with the stab upside down seemed like the stab was too flexible to get a warp free bond.
pic 3:
With all the spars in, I next added shear webbing (grain perpendicular to the spars) to the inside six ribs for this evening (I'll do the rest of them, tomorrow).
As with the bottom spars, the stab was held down with weights, and then carpenter's glue and some clamps will hold them over night.
The original design is for a much slower DF power so the spar needs additional strength to handle the G's from the turbine engine.
11-11-2009, 04:53 PM
#25
RE: ZIROLI F9F PANTHER BUILD
Stabilizer (cont)
Shear webbing (cont)
pic 1/2:
I used the back of the Xacto blade to accurately mark the shear web balsa.
About four cuts are needed to free the shear web piece from the stock balsa.
pic 3:
Rest of shear webbing cut and glued in using Elmers glue', resting stab on level surface to insure no warping.
Stab sheeting:
The supplied 1/16" thick sheeting to too narrow so two sheets have to be glued on their long edges.
pic 4:
Eye balling the edge, most of my sheets had sever (1/8") curves, which has to be straightened.
I used my jointer to get a straight edge.
pic 5:
I then taped the two edges together.
pic 6:
I then fold the two pieces of balsa open to reveal the edge so elmer's glue can be applied.
I like elmer's glue as it is easy to sand (and cheap!).
pic 7:
I then brush the glue for a uniform application.
pic 8:
I then fold the balsa back flat and wipe off any excess glue with a wet sponge.
pic 9:
Lots of weights and let her 'cook'.
Shear webbing (cont)
pic 1/2:
I used the back of the Xacto blade to accurately mark the shear web balsa.
About four cuts are needed to free the shear web piece from the stock balsa.
pic 3:
Rest of shear webbing cut and glued in using Elmers glue', resting stab on level surface to insure no warping.
Stab sheeting:
The supplied 1/16" thick sheeting to too narrow so two sheets have to be glued on their long edges.
pic 4:
Eye balling the edge, most of my sheets had sever (1/8") curves, which has to be straightened.
I used my jointer to get a straight edge.
pic 5:
I then taped the two edges together.
pic 6:
I then fold the two pieces of balsa open to reveal the edge so elmer's glue can be applied.
I like elmer's glue as it is easy to sand (and cheap!).
pic 7:
I then brush the glue for a uniform application.
pic 8:
I then fold the balsa back flat and wipe off any excess glue with a wet sponge.
pic 9:
Lots of weights and let her 'cook'.