Go Back  RCU Forums > RC Airplanes > RC Warbirds and Warplanes
Reload this Page >

Tips on the US National Insignia

Notices
RC Warbirds and Warplanes Discuss rc warbirds and warplanes in this forum.

Tips on the US National Insignia

Old 01-24-2013, 07:54 PM
  #51  
Luft-Gangster
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Pinckney, MI
Posts: 425
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Default RE: Tips on the US National Insignia

I beleive it was 1943 that the red surround was used for a short period. It was discontinued because some pilots just saw the red in a dog fight and shot at it thinking they saw a meat ball. So it was discontinued.
Old 01-25-2013, 05:57 AM
  #52  
FireBee
My Feedback: (34)
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Chesapeake , VA
Posts: 900
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Tips on the US National Insignia

Luft-Ganster,

Chris' post #9 covers the period of red surround. "by 14 August 1943; just over 2 months after the red surround was directed."


But that is not what I noticed. want to try again?
Old 01-25-2013, 08:17 AM
  #53  
Chad Veich
My Feedback: (60)
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Litchfield Park, AZ
Posts: 7,674
Likes: 0
Received 25 Likes on 23 Posts
Default RE: Tips on the US National Insignia


ORIGINAL: FireBee

Chris, others,
I need some help here, I may someday do my giant corsair as VF-17 (skull and crossbones) with either side # 3, 8, or 31.

tonight while loking at #3, I finally noticed something strange? are my eyes just tired? is the photo really showing a diff insignia?
I won't state it just to see of others also note it.
Looks like the entire white bar is surrounded in red but it could just be an anomoly in the picture. Sure looks that way to me though. Somebody may have mis-read the directive when adding the red!
Old 01-25-2013, 12:15 PM
  #54  
FireBee
My Feedback: (34)
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Chesapeake , VA
Posts: 900
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Tips on the US National Insignia

Chad,

that is what I noticed!! the left inside of white bar has a red outline where normally only blue is!

Since I'm just a Warbird Rally and not competing, I'll just go with more well known red surround.
Old 01-25-2013, 03:37 PM
  #55  
a65l
My Feedback: (17)
 
a65l's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: va veach, VA
Posts: 2,005
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes on 4 Posts
Default RE: Tips on the US National Insignia

I used to teach the Navy's Paint and Finish course in Norfolk. We taught the old fashioned way to lay out the national insignia on an aircraft. One of the things we did was make a "ruler" with holes in it at strategic lengths, so we could simply scribe the circle, the border, and all the stripes. Made life much easier. I must have graded hundreds of final exam boards, which included either a tri color insignia or single color insigina and letters, plus someother incidental stuff. I've actually, somewhere, got instructions for laying out most of Nato's national insignia.

Actually, you can find it on the web... MIL-STD-2161. Also has instructions for painting the US insignia, but I think just the latest versions. Haven't cracked that book in years....
Old 01-29-2013, 09:25 AM
  #56  
Avaiojet
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Jupiter , FL
Posts: 3,157
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes on 6 Posts
Default RE: Tips on the US National Insignia

Just stumbled onto this Thread.

Good thing I've been making my stuff correct all these years.

Charles
Old 04-04-2013, 01:56 AM
  #57  
frets24
My Feedback: (15)
 
frets24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: charlotte, NC
Posts: 1,245
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Tips on the US National Insignia

Nice explanation, Thanks.

The whole topic made me want to go check my homemade stencil and paint insignias....Whew! I passed!
Old 05-26-2013, 05:59 AM
  #58  
Chris Smith
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (2)
 
Chris Smith's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Adams TN
Posts: 834
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Tips on the US National Insignia

Couple of notes.

Many P-47s (especially in Europe) wore insignia on both bottom surfaces of wings. This was an anti fratricide measure. Don't assume all P-47 s did though. This was also an exception and not the norm. It is very rare to find any other aircraft type done that way, and many P-47s did not.

In addition to the red color used being confused with the Japs, one of the primary reasons the red surround was painted over with blue was the complication of supporting it in the field. Often it was simply applied incorrectly as in the photo on this thread. The other issue was red fading and paint quality issues. In addition, stocking another paint color for maintenance added complication.

It is risky to over generalize but...if the insignia did not include bars, as in the very early part of the war you will probably find them placed in all 6 positions. Either with red meatball or just a star on blue circle. Unless a rare photo shows otherwise, assume only 4 positions used if the insignia has the bars.

And yes you will find what are called "transition" insignia. Insignia like the star and bars with no surround. These are cases where the squadron misinterpreted the directive or hadn't finished the work yet!
Old 06-18-2013, 12:24 PM
  #59  
flyingchef
My Feedback: (93)
 
flyingchef's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Aurora, CO
Posts: 632
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Tips on the US National Insignia

Chris,
Thank you for sharing your knowledge, very informative post which I will certainly use in the future. I hope it opens the door to perhaps similar posts on WWI/II/post-war British, German, and other air forces.
Thank you again,
Bruno
Old 06-20-2013, 03:56 AM
  #60  
Chris Smith
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (2)
 
Chris Smith's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Adams TN
Posts: 834
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Tips on the US National Insignia

Thanks Bruno,
I wish the jet flyers were interested in accuracy as much as warbirds flyers are. I too look forward to any info from research someone might have on British and German insignia.
Chris
Old 07-22-2013, 10:53 AM
  #61  
F4u5
My Feedback: (81)
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Apple Valley, MN
Posts: 3,236
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Default RE: Tips on the US National Insignia

Excellent post. I never knew most of this detail. Thx

Jeff
Old 02-15-2014, 07:57 PM
  #62  
RC Flier
My Feedback: (9)
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Seymour, IN
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

What about the insignia that is only White??? No stripes, nothing but white star and bars.
Old 02-16-2014, 05:51 AM
  #63  
Chris Smith
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (2)
 
Chris Smith's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Adams TN
Posts: 834
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

The all white insignia (used on Navy all blue scheme) is no different. Just leave the blue background and blue surround off.
Old 06-18-2015, 08:12 PM
  #64  
Peter_OZ
Banned
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Brisbane, Queensland, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 7,744
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

it's funny I read this thread couple of weeks back as I was about to apply the paint masks for the insignaia on my 85" P47 build.

Promptly forgot all about it.
50:50 chance of getting orintation of the mask wrong way and I managed to do so ended up using decals instead!!
Old 05-02-2016, 04:12 PM
  #65  
rzingsheim
My Feedback: (4)
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Fond du Lac, WI
Posts: 153
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Just revisited this post. Great information. Do you guys have correct color info for the red, white, and blue used on the insignias? Even better would be corresponding color names for companies such as Tamiya, Testors Model Master and others in acrylic or enamel for those who want to paint their own.
Old 05-03-2016, 03:56 AM
  #66  
Chris Smith
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (2)
 
Chris Smith's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Adams TN
Posts: 834
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

In this graphic, we show a summary of the way the insignia is constructed. In RC models we still see the majority of modelers continue to get it wrong. It is just as easy to do it correctly. The ARF manufacturers simply don't care.

Note on the sheet the 3 FS paint numbers thus:
Insignia Red FS11136 or 31136 semi-gloss Model Master #1705
Insignia White FS17875 Model Master #1745
Insignia Blue FS15044 or 35044 semi-gloss Model Master #1719.
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Fd92900.jpg
Views:	1240
Size:	63.2 KB
ID:	2160631  
Old 12-13-2016, 07:50 AM
  #67  
bailegb
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hico, TX
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Excellent information contained in this small thread. Thanks Chris,

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.