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Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

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Old 11-09-2009, 07:50 PM
  #451  
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Default RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

We found the scheme in the Squadron walk around book, it's pretty neat. Speaking of the Yorktown, my Mothers Cousin was a radioman on an SBD radioman on the Yorktown when it was sunk, he said it was quite a shock to come looking for a place to land and his ship wan't there. He later became a pilot and an instructor. SOBEL, Alvin: ARM1c, VS-5 R/G, USS Yorktown (CV-5) plane was an SBD3. Who would have thought.
Glad you can get some work in on the Avenger, my next plane will need to be a solo adventure so I can work on it more than once a week..


Larry
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Old 11-09-2009, 08:43 PM
  #452  
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Default RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

Well said Larry and Noah, well said. Chic
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Old 11-12-2009, 06:39 PM
  #453  
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Default RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

Hey guys, just rec'd my Warbirds Over Delaware DVD. Brian, just a beautiful example of our TBM Avengers and certainly an incentive for all of us to strive for. Noah, Charlie displays your next build, his "Sandy". It too looks good. Chic
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Old 11-15-2009, 07:40 AM
  #454  
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Default RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

Hi gang,
This is just a test to see if I finally figured a way to upload some photos. We started sanding the fuse on Wed and came up with a really big issue, we got a little carried away with spraying 2 disimilar primers within 20 mins of one another... need I say more, we will spend this wed removing ALL the primer and start over Anyway, here are a few pix of the Avenger
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Old 11-22-2009, 09:14 PM
  #455  
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Default RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

Only had a couple of good days for spraying primer the past week or two. So not completely finished with the panels lines (only got the wings going). But I'm getting closer!

Over the past week, I have been installing various components, and details on the fuse and wings. One of things I had the most trouble with was the crew door. I tried a number of hinges, and hinging techniques (including the boomerangs, Larry), but the solution (as ever) came in the form of help from Charlie. He sent me some pictures of his method, so I tried that route and it worked out very nicely.

The hinges are made from 3/32 ply. The door pivots on 1/16th music wire. The wire is secured inside a balsa boxed channel that is simply glued to the bulkhead inside the fuse. The key was to make the balsa box channel loose around the 1/16 wire so that there's enough "play" so that the door does not bind when opening and closing. The door fits snugly in the fuse and is secured in the closed position with a couple of small magnets. Like many other components on my Avenger, it remains to be determined whether the door will remain closed when the motor is running and the plane is in action. I'm confident that it'll be just fine, though.

To finish the door, I layed in some balsa ribs and then sheeted over the inside with thin styrene sheet. A few holes were cut into the styrene for effect.

The door gaps need some more work in a few places. Need to get to this before I start panel lines. That'll be easy with a bit of filler and sand paper.





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Old 11-22-2009, 09:28 PM
  #456  
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Default RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

Also spent some time masking the canopies and getting them into primer. During my initial dry-fitting of the canopy sections, I made an error and trimmed the front canopy section a little too much. Rather than order a new canopy from Charlie, I just permanently mounted the front screen to the fuse and filled the nasty gap with some putty. I can still get the dash panel in place, so in the end it'll be OK. It looks fine, and it's really only inconvenient because I have to mask so heavily around the screen while priming (and evntually painting).

Before I started on panellines on the wings, I added bits of styrene and some foil tape here and there. I am mimicking some of the access panels with the tape and the styrene is supposed to mimic the large raised bits that make up the folding wing gaps-covers. I was using the accurate miniatures plastic model as a reference for both the lines and the folding wing gaps-covers.

I also started on the panel lines on the wing panels. I have never done overlapping panels before, so it's a learning experience. I started with the lines that radiate outward from the fuse. Marked all the lines with pencil, layed out some tape and applied several heavy coats of primer along the tape. When it was dry I wet-sanded the over spray. Now it's onto the lines that run parallel to the fuse. Maybe I should have done those first. We'll see.
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Old 11-22-2009, 09:34 PM
  #457  
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Default RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

You have great hands Noah. Looks really great. Chic
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Old 11-22-2009, 09:47 PM
  #458  
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Default RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

Hey, Chic.

Thanks for the kind words, pal.

Some of the other things I worked on were further detailing the turret. Just painted some of the bits black, and added a harness for the gunner.
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Old 11-22-2009, 09:53 PM
  #459  
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Default RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

And lastly, I finished detailing the cockpit dash and side-walls.

I'm going to re-do most of it. I think it looks absolutely terrible. I was in a hurry to get this out of the way and the end result is a cockpit that looks like a really sad Star Trek set. What's with all those stupid dots??!?!?

Really the only thing I'm proud of is the throttle quadrant. Other than the throttle quadrant (and the gauges on the dash console), the rest is garbage.

Will try again and post my second effort soon.

The last thing I was working on tonight was reinstalling the bomb bay doors. Need to have them in place before I start adding panel lines to the fuse. I hooked them up, too, so I could sit back and watch as they were once again put into action... so cool how well they function, and how cool it looks.

That's it for now. Hope everyone else is making good progress on their winter projects.

Best,

Noah

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Old 11-22-2009, 11:57 PM
  #460  
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Default RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

butlern,

Can you describe the mimicking of the access panels with the tape. It really looks great under the primer. I am far away from this step, but would like to know for later. All, I enjoy seeing and reading these post. I hope my project will look as good as these.

Thanks for the post.
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Old 11-23-2009, 07:23 AM
  #461  
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Default RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

Thanks for checking back, Steve. Looks like you're off to a good start on the AD-5. I've been watching you guys work. Keep it up!

I'll post some pictures of the foil tape in a little bit. Essentially, it's the stuff used to wrap heating and A/C duct-work. Very sticky adhesive. I just cut the desired shape (circular or oval hatch), peel off the backing, and then stick in place. You have to be a bit careful not to scratch or gouge the finish with a fingernail while smoothing it down, because those marks will be permanent. However, this property of the tape is also the rationale for using it... once stuck in place and smoothed down (I used soft balsa block to smooth it out) you can take a small tool (brass tube, or even the end of a phillips screwdriver) and make little impressions around the perimeter to mimic the fasteners. It actually looks great. Also, after the top-coat of paint is applied, you can take some steel wool or equivalent and distress the area so that some of the metal finish shows through. Again, I'll post some pictures later today.

So this morning I reexamined the fuel tank. The smallest tank I thought I could use with this 150 radial is a 32 oz tank. A bigger tank will not fit, and even the 32 oz tank is presenting a problem. There's very little room up there, this mostly a function of the bomb bay built into the fuse and the center-mounted wing.

The tank will have to be installed pretty far back, so much so that the back of the tank will actually enter into the cockpit area. I think that I can box the back of the tank off, paint the box black and minimize the obtrusive tank. Maybe I can still even get the center console installed. We'll see. Pictures below show just how far back the tank must be placed.
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Old 11-23-2009, 07:27 AM
  #462  
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Default RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

I also applied the gap-covers on the inboard wings. These are just cut from styrene and glued onto the surface of the wing. The outer panels are not shown below (they are out in the garage because the primer stinks so bad for a couple days) but the gap covers on the inboard panels match up with the covers on the outboard panels so it looks like a single strip. Again, shape, size and placement is based on the accurate miniatures plastic model.

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Old 11-23-2009, 07:38 AM
  #463  
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Default RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

Lastly, I finally got around to glassing the baffling in the cowl this weekend so this morning I did some sanding and applied some primer.

The fake exhaust stubs will be painted over. I originally planned to leave them metallic, and I even tried to discolor the metal with a butane torch so that it looked like real, heat-distressed exhaust work (before they were glued in place, of course), but the finish would not discolor. So, they'll just get painted flat black.

The other thing that I did relates to the canopy (greenhouse, rear section). I installed some balsa (1/4x1/4) along the base where it mounts to the fuse. Then I used a razor plane to remove most of the material such that the remaining wood filled in the gap made between the fuse and the canopy. If this were not done, the canopy would have bowed inward when the mounting screws were tightened. Just a little tip to help make the canopy installation a little neater.

That's it for today.

Tonight after work I'll finish installing the tank and start working on a tail hook.

I likely will not get back to the panel lines until thiks weekend, since it's pretty hard to spray in the dark and have it come out nicely (ask me how I know).

Be back soon.

Noah
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Old 11-23-2009, 07:58 AM
  #464  
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Default RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

Almost forgot... the tape.

The tape just comes in long rolls. I cut templates for the oval hatches from styrene and for the circular hatches I just trace around dimes or quarters, or what ever I need that's the appropriate size. I use a ball-point pen to trace, then just use scissors to cut out the panel, remove the backing and stick in place. Again, be careful with the finish and smooth them out with a piece of soft balsa or similar.

I also included some photos of a few that I applied to my Meister Bf109.

All right. Be back soon.

Noah
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Old 11-23-2009, 05:56 PM
  #465  
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Default RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

Noah,
Okay what can I say, stupendous, marvelous, excellent. We removed all the primer last Thursday nite with MRC, awesome stuff paint remover, can also be used to get a buzz. Took us an hour to wash all the primer off the fuselage, washed the plane down with water and reprimed. Today I started puttying again, tomorrow some more then Wednesday nite, sanding priming and hopefully some pix to send. Noah keep up the good work, it really makes me more anal than I already am

LArry
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Old 11-23-2009, 07:57 PM
  #466  
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Default RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

Hi, Larry.

Sorry to hear about the primer snafu, although I'm glad to hear that you were able to remove the mess and start fresh.

I have one more thing to share. Tonight I was looking around my work area for suitable materials with which to make an arresting tail hook. I came across some 1/4 inch polyethylene tubing used for home plumbing and started playing with it. The hook I generated looks pretty good, and it's very light-weight.

To make one, I first split a 2 inch length of tubing down the center, leaving ~1/4 inch of the tube uncut. Then I widened the split a little bit from just below the uncut part over a distance of about 1/2 inch. I marked the split and the widened areas with some red marker in the pictures so it's easier to see. Next I bent the tubing over a steel rod and heated it gently with a flame (not too much heat because it'll melt fast). Once cooled, I removed the rod and then trimmed it up a bit. Sand paper also works pretty well to smooth the edges. Lastly I slid the "hook" onto a light aluminum piece of tubing and sprayed it white. Black stripes to be added later.

I had two sizes of tubing, so I made some hooks from both. They both turned out good, but I think the smaller is more appropriately sized. I might have to shape it a little more, but that's easy to do with heat, and once cool the polyethylene pretty much stays put.

Back soon.

Noah


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Old 11-23-2009, 09:17 PM
  #467  
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Default RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

butlern,

Thanks for the panel lesson. They look very real and add a great scale detail to the airframe. I will practice making some between now and when I am ready for some. Your Avenger is also looking very good. Hope my AD-5 will look as good one day.

Thanks
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Old 11-23-2009, 09:23 PM
  #468  
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Default RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

Hi Noah,
And once again you have managed to surprise me with your accume, as much as I and my cohort come up with ideas we are neophytes compared to you and the other builders on this thread. I guess as newbies to scale modeling would should have started with something much easier like a paper airplane. Seriously though, you should give yourself a large pat on the back for your building skilss and your ability to not only share but inspire others. I've said it before but it's worth repeating that this group is one sharing bunch of people and I only hope to be able to contribute more in the future. Every time I open the thread I wish I had the plane here to be able to get more build time in, 3 hours a week plus a couple of lunch hours really don't cut it.
We will try and get some shots with the wings attached on Wednesday depending on how far we get, we think we are going to use a GI Joe for the pilot, I'm waiting for John to bring it in to see if it looks good in the cockpit.
In the meantime here are some pix of my P-38 that has yet to fly, still have to balance it and get the engines syncd but am hoping for next spring if we get our new field. 84" wingspan, power is 2 OS 61's with onboard glo and springair retracts. I started this in 1999 and put it on hold when I lost my business in 2001, got this far between 08 and this year and will finish the panel lines etc after it's maiden flight (or crash, whichever comes first).

Talk soon
Larry


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Old 11-23-2009, 10:07 PM
  #469  
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Default RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

I agree, Larry. Just about everything I have learned about building has come from the ideas and efforts of many, many members here on this site who generously share their time, ideas and experiences. Of course most of the critical tips, tricks and hints regarding the Kellogg Avenger have come straight from Charlie Kellogg himself. Charlie has been very generous with his time and has very patiently answered all of my questions. Thanks, Charile, if you're still shecking in from time-to-time!

Anyway, there only a couple of guys in my club who I would consider builders, so there's a limited pool of information locally. So, thank goodness for resources like RCU and RCSB. Someday I hope to do a real scale project that I can enter into a contest, but for now I still have a lot to learn (like STARTING a build with research and documentation, HA HA!!). Nevertheless, I appreciate your kind words and encouragment. I wish I could spend more time on my Avenger, too. Sounds strange saying that now, since only 2 months ago I was ready to take a long break from the plane. Special thanks to Mike and the trip up to Fond du Lac, WI for some new perspective and inspiration.

Your P-38 looks sharp! Looking forward to hearing about how well it flies and seeing some pictures of it at the field and in the air next Spring. Congratulations on nearing the end of the P-38 project, Larry.

Now it's back down stairs to re-work the cockpit panels. Damn those stupid dots!!!

Best,

Noah
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Old 11-25-2009, 09:46 PM
  #470  
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Default RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

I came out of the shop and looked at the progress you guys are making! Man the plane is looking great!!! The latest post are awesome. The gun turret really turned out nice I mean way nice, great job.I can't hardly wait to see the finished plane. I'll keep looking in from time to time. Have a great Hoilday, travel safe, talk to you guys later. Back into shop that D-18 just keeps calling my name.

Brian
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Old 11-26-2009, 06:29 AM
  #471  
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Default RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

To all the friends I have made on this thread, have a GREAT Thanksgiving and when the builds are done, let's keep the thread alive on whatever projects we are working on next

Larry
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Old 11-26-2009, 08:36 AM
  #472  
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Default RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

Absolutely... Happy Thanksgiving to everyone!

Thanks for checking in again, Brian. I appreciate the compliments, but seriously, I would be thrilled if mine even came out half as good as your Avenger!

I'm leaving for the inlaw's shortly, but I managed a bit of time with the Avenger this morning.

I used 0.010 styrene and some 1/32 music wire to make some fake hatches along the sides of the fuse. As ever, placement, size and shape were determined using the Accurate Miniatures plastic model and 3-views. The short lengths of wire serve to mimic the hinges on these panels. However some panels were not hinged so wire was left off where appropriate.

One thing I have not yet added is the fresh air intake for the bombardier. I need to find some material that can be shaped or molded appropriately. I would hate to have to carve this shape from a blob of Bondo. I'll keep seaching the shop for scraps of tubing that I can slice into a semi-cone shape. Any suggestions from those who have already installed this feature (Brian? Charlie?)?

I also started work to smooth the seam where Charlie joined the cowl halves. I must say, this is literally the only flaw in the cowl. No pinholes whatsoever! Beautiful work, Charlie. I could not believe that the primer didn't reveal more flaws, but the seam was the only area that required filling and sanding. Another round of sanding and priming and I think the cowl will be ready for final paint.

Over the past few nights I have also been sketching the panel lines along the fuse in pencil. Hopefully, I can start masking and spraying the lines on Sat/Sun. If the weather is bad (which is forcast), then instead I'll start practicing riveting on scrap material. Still need to make the brass tube/soldering iron apparatus to make flush rivets, and of course practice with burning the rivets. I also need to experiment with glue/water mix ratios for the application of raised rivets. Thise will be pushed out of a syringe.

There's a huge number of rivets on the Avenger... hopefully the riveting will be therapeutic (but I suspect not!).

Be in touch soon.

Regards,

Noah

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Old 11-26-2009, 12:30 PM
  #473  
lkahn4
 
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Default RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

Hey Noah,
Chack out Rosie Rivet at flitemetal.com, they have a rivet system for flush or raised rivets, plane is looking awesome, we didn't get to work on it this week, I think we only need to sand the spot putty and reprine and then we can start with the hatches, windows and bomb bay doors (i hope)
Larry
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Old 11-26-2009, 06:34 PM
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Default RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

Rosie Rivet... System?!?!?

Cheating!!

No, actually it looks pretty slick.

How bad is it that we're 20 minutes from eating Thanksgiving Dinner and I am on RCU checking to see what progress has been made on the various threads that I monitor regularly... Ridiculous. Well, at least my wife is a psychiatrist, so I'm not too far away from help. And I think that I'm fast approaching that point.

I'll check out the rivet system more closely.

Be back soon (likely sooner that I would care to admit!).

Best,

Noah
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Old 11-26-2009, 08:38 PM
  #475  
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ORIGINAL: butlern
How bad is it that we're 20 minutes from eating Thanksgiving Dinner and I am on RCU checking to see what progress has been made on the various threads that I monitor regularly... Ridiculous. Well, at least my wife is a psychiatrist, so I'm not too far away from help. And I think that I'm fast approaching that point.

I'll check out the rivet system more closely.

Be back soon (likely sooner that I would care to admit!).

Best,

Noah

Now that's what I'm talking about. Happy Thanksgiving Noah. Fantastic work that I'm STILL enjoying watching! Your build is just so much more exciting than my own.
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