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  1. #1326

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    RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

    Hey guys
    Update time, tonite we got the choke and throttle servos set, the elevator servos are almost set we found we need to add a few more braces to the ny rod sleeves.
    We sanded the runny paint on 1 of the leading edges of the wings and respeayed.
    Grandkids left after 10 days, can now get back to the Avenger and Trojan, the winds have been blowing over 15 mph crosswind for the last 4 or 5 weeks, hope they calm down a bit before the summer is over.
    Noah have a great and safe trip to the new digs, I wish you all the best, and I'm sure Boyd can't wait.
    Still shooting for engine start and taxi test on July 14th then final balancing and test flight by the end of July. It certainly has been a great journey, sometimes frustrating sometimes enlighting but the one thing I enjoyed most was the friendships I've made here on the site.
    18 months and counting and I will be making my drive to sunny warm Arizona, I plan on a stop in Ok. And possibly Pa if the gps so commands me...

    Will post pix soon

    Larry

  2. #1327

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    RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

    Sounds like you're on the home-stretch, Larry!

    Absolutely you'll have to swing through the OKC area to day hello and check out the activity going on this region (lot's of top-notch models/modelers)!

    Looking forward the follow up photos and report from early testing.

    Noah

  3. #1328

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    RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build



    Greetings from my basement in Atlanta where Iam building an older kit that Charlie prepared and sold to someone many years ago. Ihave framed the middle section of the wing and the tips, and I'm at the critical juncture of joining them together, setting the wing tube, etc. I appreciate all who posted on this build log as Ihave benefited from it greatly.

    Iam presently struggling with the alignment of ribs W-6 and W-7 as Iset the wing tip to the center section. My first question relates to W-6. When Iinstalled that rib with the bottom in the proper place on the plan and set the angle with the alignment jig Charlie provided, the surface behind the main spare is not flush with all of the other ribs in the center section. All of the other ribs are the same height, but if Iset a straight edge atop theW-6 ribon each side of the center section about halfway between the main spar and the trailing edge of the ribs, the bottom of the straight edge sits about 1/4" above all of the other ribs. Do Itrim W-6 down to match the other ribs such that the sheeting will lay flush on all ribsor is W-6 suppose to be higher like that? Isaw some notes about W-6 being over-sized, but this is confusing b/c the rib aligned nicely in front of the main spare, and it's "taller" in the back.



  4. #1329

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    RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

    Chris,
    I seem to remember the same problem, I'm sure one of the guys will post an answer, I totally forget how we did it.
    You could go thought the posts in the meantime while you wait for an answer. Look forward to seeing the pix of your build.

    Larry

  5. #1330
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    RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

    Hi Chris,
    Set center section down on the bench. Install outer ribs loose and set with gauge (no glue). Rough fit inner wing tubes.
    Install next rib loose against inner loose rib at angel already set and clamp together , adjust slots in spars for best fit.
    Ignore what the outside perimeter of the rib is doing.
    Set up outer wings at proper dihedral and begin to shorten the spars untill the wing and center section come together.
    Finish fitting wing tubes with no force on them, you should be able to rotate them in the holes then tack glue parting ribs to spars.
    Glue tubes into position .
    Slide outer wing away from center section and finish gluing parting ribs.
    Block sand parting rib profile using wing profile as guide.
    Peter
    P-47 Brotherhood # 31

  6. #1331

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    RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

    Thanks, Peter. I think you answered my question, which is sand those ribs down to the wing profile once everything else is set. The way that wing tip joins is so tricky b/c nothing really seems to relate to the center piece that can be used as a reference.You haveto rely almost exclusively on the taped together plans. The top spars in the center and tips don'treally align, the angle of the spar changes, etc., etc. It's hard to feel confident buidling this sucker the first time.

    My second question is engine choice.Ihaven't purchased my engine yet, and I would love to hear from some folks that are particularly happy with their own selection. Inoticed in the logs that most people chose a good bit more power than the recommended size ... Based on that observation Iwas planning to use at least a 100cc engine. Thoughts?

    Chris


  7. #1332

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    RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

    Chris,
    Glad to have you add to the build thread. I think Peter covered the steps needed to set the W-6 ribs. After they are set in place sand the rib profile to match the adjacent ribs.

    As for the the engine size, I have flown both of my Avengers with 3W75 engines and feel that they had sufficient power. Watch the Youtube video and see what you think.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tpOricl4xo&feature=plcp
    I think 100cc is way more than you should need in this size warbird. I am certain that Larry will have more power than is needed with his DA-85.

    Charlie

  8. #1333

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    RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

    Chris,
    As Charlie pointed out we chose a DA-85 since this is our first scale build and figured we would build on the heavy side, not to mention we got a really Great deal on it. I have watched in amazement as Charlie and Noah's Avengers took flight.
    Okay now for our update or locate depending on how you look at it. We finished setting up all the servos last nite including the choke getting ready for our clubs warbirds event next weekend.
    Figured we would at least get the engine started and do a taxi test, lo and behold we have run into a slight? Problem. The rudder and our tail wheel steering setup works Great but we are having a problem with it centering when the stick is brought back to center, it stays about an 1/8" off center when the rudder moves to the left. We have also encountered the same problem with the elevators, after they move down they refuse to center, no problem in the opposite direction.
    The only things other than figuring out the control surface problems is to finish mounting the canopies, setting the gun assembly and turret and decals and balancing, which brings me to a question, do we balance with the gear up or down? My p38 balances with the gear down.
    I do have to say it was a real challenge hooking everything up with a 10 channel radio, thank god for the matchbox that we're using for the flaps.
    Will have pix from the flyin next weekend, it will be nice to finally see the Avenger in the sunlight. It has been a 2-1/2 year journey that has blessed me with many new friends and a lifetimes worth of education in scale building.

    Happy flying
    Larry

  9. #1334

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    RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

    Way to go Larry. I should be painting the DAWG next week. Charlie, will use your advice on setting the engine incidence, thanks for the tip. Will certainly let you know on how it works for me. Good flying to you all. Chic
    Never Has So Many - Owed So Much - To So Few.
    Sir Winston Churchill

  10. #1335

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    RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

    Good news, Larry! Looking forward to seeing some pictures outside in the daylight!

    Chris, the others here have explained it well. Disregard the profile of the W-6 until it's tacked into place along with W-7, wing tubes and the relevant outer panel (Peter is correct that the spars must be gradually shortened and angled as you slide the outer panel to meet the inner panel (test-fitting and re-test-fitting repeatedly)).

    One the fit is correct between center section and outer panel(s), remove outer panel and glue the hell out of everything that was tacked into place. Once that's done and the W-6 and W-7 ribs are premanently seton the center and outer panel, respectively, sand the outer contour of W-6 to match the other ribs in the center sections, and then sand W-7 similarly to match the ribs/contour of the outer panel.

    FYI, gang, email address has changed and I no longer susbscribe to any threads, but I'll still check in from time-to-time!

    Best,

    Noah

  11. #1336

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    RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

    Chic,
    That's great news, now the fun really begins, can't wait to see the pix of the first coat of paint. Knew you would catch up

    Larry

  12. #1337

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    RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

    Sadly, I had to ditch the Avenger today.... full-throttle, low pass... total power loss right in front of me on the flightline 6' off the ground. The model obviously had no altitude to turn and glide back to the runway, but at the same time I was carrying far too much speed to belly on the smooth grass of the runway.

    Tried my best to stay with it, and I decied to belly it into high grass about 50-75 yds beyond the field, gear still retracted. Man, talk about lucky... Broken prop, moderate damage to cowl, minor damage to bay doors, no damage to engine or the rest of the airframe!

    Turned out the throttle linkage broke and the return spring on the carb immediatley sent it to idle. I thought I'd thrown a push rod or that the motor seized, but it was only that stupid little 2-56 linkage that nearly destroyed my pride and joy.

    Lesson to others: go through everything regularly!!! A little preventative maintenance goes a long, long way!

    Should be operational again as soon as I finish some glass and paint work on the cowl and receive my new prop.

    How are you guys coming along?

    NB

  13. #1338
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    RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

    whew! The warbird gods were kind!

    Casey
    Fliteskin, Sierra, Nelson Hobby, MICKO aircraft, Getstencils, Holman Plans, VicRC, Castle Creations, Addicted to Luft, BestPilots.com

  14. #1339
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    RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

    Okay let me give you the uncut version. [8D]

    There Noah was; high power setting, low and fast at 6 feet AGL and smoking with only 700 feet of the 1000 foot runway remaining the loss of power occurs [X(]. He now has no reasonable choice but to maintain his heading. With thumbs of steel he allows the plane to close the gap between its belly and the ground while loosing very little airspeed; meanwhile his primordial instincts demand altitude and a heading change back to the safety of the runway, but he ignores this allowing his aeronautical discussion making skills to override one billion years of human instinct.

    In a couple of seconds the plane over flew the departure end of the runway 700 feet beyond Noah, and now have had eaten up what remained of the grass between him and a county road Noah decides to ditch the aircraft. As the plane made contact with the grass it appeared to become one with the earth as it ground looped creating a cloud of dust and grass giving the appearance of separating the wing from the fuselage.

    However, when the plane was recovered and returned to the flight line we were all amazed how little damage had occurred.

    Great piloting skills Noah, and now you have lived through the saying; there are two things a pilot needs when a power failure happens during a low pass. One is the altitude above him and the other is the runway behind him.

    See you tomorrow,
    WARBIRDRCER:
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  15. #1340
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    RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

    Wow,

    I'm sure glad Noah did not have too much damage on one of my favorite warbirds to watch fly................ I almost came over this morning to see you guy's.

    Eddie
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  16. #1341

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    RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

    So glad to hear the outcome was favorable. Noah, was Warbirdracer one of your graduate students, he speaks highly of your accomplishment. Smile. Great thumbs and a good read on what not to try to do (go around). Get Rrrrr Done, I mean Get Her Fixed. Chic
    Never Has So Many - Owed So Much - To So Few.
    Sir Winston Churchill

  17. #1342

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    RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

    Yeah, Steve (WARBIRDRCER) exaggerates when referencing my flying abilities!

    All in all, I was VERY luck that it didn't break apart. I remember when I was building the model and I was looking at the bay doors and thinking, "I hope I never have to belly this thing in... those will never hold up!" But, amazingly, they held up! Only the brackets attached to the bay doors failed. Couple of drops of epoxy and it'll be good as new.

    Eddie, we're going out tomorrow and I'll be flying the 118" F7F, so swing out if you're able!

  18. #1343
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    RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

    All kidding aside, Noah did do a great job.

    Come on out in the morning Eddie, and bring the Cub and get some air Time. You know us, every weekend is a warbird fly-in

    Back to Avengers now, out.
    WARBIRDRCER:
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  19. #1344

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    RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

    Noah
    I am glad to hear that the Avenger wasn't damaged to bad and that the pilot survived the ordeal. It is always amazing how the smallest detail can become a critical failure.

    I went to Warbirds over Delaware this weekend with the Avenger and my folding wing Skyraider. I got two flights in on the Avenger Friday. I dropped the torpedo off the end of the runway on both flights to avoid having to retrieve it from the active runway. On the first drop the front of the torpedo got a little damaged and a little epoxy weight came out. On the second drop the torpedo didn't separate from the plane cleanly and for a second I thought it was going to hit the elevators. It fluttered around under the plane and then fell away without incident.
    The Skyraider got one flight in on Friday and I had to call it a day. WOD was a great event and it was run very well as usual.

    Larry, How are things coming along. We all are waiting with excitement to see those first photos.

    Charlie

  20. #1345

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    RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

    Hi Guys,
    First Noah glad things worked out, it always amazes me how small things become BIG things in the blink of an eye.
    Okay so here's the latest update. Saturday was our Warbirds over Hecksher State Park, try as we might with doing 4 nights and appx 12 hours in nthe 2 weeks preceding the event we just couldn't get it ready for engine start.
    Bear with me since my computer crashed and I am dealing with a new one with windows 7 that I totally hate.

    So we took the Avenger to the meet and were greeted by OOHS and AHHS, it was a very humbling experience, they all asked when it would fly as most of the club wants to attend the maiden flight.

    On the other hand we did manage to finally get my P-38 in the air (14 years after the start). Took half an hour to get the engines started due to 90 degree heat and 90% humidty, but the onboard glow worked just as I hoped.
    We did a minor engine adjustment and my friend Eddie Meyer took it up for it's shakeout flight. I guess i did better than I expected with the build since it only needed a click of up and a couple of clicks of ailerons. He pushed the throttle forward and the plane rolled and rotated scale like, climbing for altitude as the 61 FX's had this sweet sound of 2 almost perfectly synced engines (within 400 RPM at half throttle)
    He put it through it's paces and was amazed at how docile (his words) it is, he did about 5 - 10 mins and we suggested he bring it in to work out a baubling engine, he made the turn and had a perfect lineup, as he passed the threshold appx 4' off the runway the plane decided to tip right side into the apron off the runway.
    The good thing is that the damage was not significant, tore out the main gear mounting plates (clean) ripped out 2 screws from the nose wheel plate and snapped the right outer wing panel almost in half. I'm figuring about 5 hours to repair and another 3 -4 to add 2 servos for the outboard flaps.
    All in all I am very please with the flight and watching 35+ guys watching and drooling as the P-38 tore up the sky.

    I am trying to upload the pix, it will probably take a few posts, if I have no luck I will forward them to everyone, am hoping to have the video of the P-38 later tonight and will send.

    Charlie, glad everything worked out in Delaware.

    Looks like the files are too big to upload

    Larry
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  21. #1346

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    RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

    Larry, the plane looks awesome! By the way, are you on the right or the left in the photos (always curious to put a face to a fellow friend and RCU user).

    NB

  22. #1347

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    RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

    And I'm happy to hear that the p-38 project made it through it's first flight, too! Minor damage is something we can all live with!

    Best,

    NB

  23. #1348

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    RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

    Noah
    I'm the funny lookimng one on the right and thanks

  24. #1349

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    RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

    Noah, I told Larry that the smile on his face reminds me of how a mouse would be smiling if trapped in a cheese factory. The artwork from a spray can is commendable. Great job Larry, not only do I follow Noah, Grover, Charlie, our Canadian friend, and now you. Couldn't think of a better bunch to follow into battle. Chic
    Never Has So Many - Owed So Much - To So Few.
    Sir Winston Churchill

  25. #1350

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    RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

    Chic,
    Thanks and I couldn't have said it better.

    Larry


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