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Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

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Old 08-30-2008, 02:40 PM
  #1
redtail
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Default Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

Hi Guys, this is "Redtail". Ken Hodges and I are currently building the 25% L-19/O-1 BirdDogs here in this same forum. By October, I hope to have finished the BirdDog and started construction on my new project, Charlie Kellogg's Grumman TBM Avenger. I'm not an expert builder so please chime in with any helpful hints and/or advice. You toooo Charlie, I am sure I will really need your help. This building thread will officially begin in October. Hope I am not breaking any rules by submitting this now and will report nothing till October? By the way, Charlie is really a great guy to work with either by phone, mail, or email. He has a new website: www.kelloggplans.com

The kit from Charlie comes very neatly packaged and the parts bundled as to their placement, rudder, stab, etc. The optional parts such as the cowl, canopy, rear turrent, cockpit pieces are all professional quality pieces. I will be using the Sierra Precision gear, a BME 115 twin for power, and of course, JR 2.4 for guidance. Thought I'd add several photos to show my choosen color scheme and a sample of the quality and detail of the plans, and packaging.
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Old 08-30-2008, 02:44 PM
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Default RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

Color Scheme Photos. I favor the British because "Of what so few, did for so many" I think Churchill said that. Great statement of their war effort. See you in October. Hope all my stuff comes in the mail by then. Chic White
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Old 08-30-2008, 06:19 PM
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Default RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

"Never was so much owed by so many to so few"

Winston Churchill
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Old 08-30-2008, 07:19 PM
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Default RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

Churchill's quote, of course, was in reference to the Royal Air Force's Fighter Command having fought back the Germans during the Battle of Britain. I don't think any Avengers were used in that conflict. I'm kidding! I, too, am drawn to aircraft in British markings and seeing American aircraft like the TBF done up with roundels is really cool! I think you've made a great choice!

Al
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Old 08-30-2008, 07:34 PM
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Default RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Chad Veich

"Never was so much owed by so many to so few"

Winston Churchill
You're right Chad. I think the entire quote is: "Never before in the history of human conflict, was so much owed by so many, to so few". Heard it again the other night watching "Piece of Cake" for about the fourth time.
This'll be a great thread to follow.
Al
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Old 08-30-2008, 07:45 PM
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Default RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

redtail good luck with the build, great subject. I met Charlie at Warbirds over Delaware this summer, both him and his wife are SUPER nice people and he designs great models. I will be following your build with great interest!!

Tony
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Old 08-30-2008, 07:49 PM
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Default RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

Thanks Chad for installing the correct Churchill quote into this build thread, it makes it more honest. I just love to read and hear it stated: Never was so much owed by so many to so few. A thrilling account of a moment in life. I also have a Top Flite Stinson Reliant done up in British markings with Field Marshall Montgomery viewing the D-Day activities. Ike, had the better ride, he rode in the back of a P-51B. Chic
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Old 08-30-2008, 07:51 PM
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Default RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

Thanks MobyAl and Tony for your support. Chic
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Old 08-30-2008, 08:47 PM
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Default RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

This should be a great build, looking forward to watching the Avenger take shape. I didn't know the Brits even used these planes, and the color scheme is definitely more interesting than the US version. Chic, how are you going to build this and grade papers too?

All the sanding on the BirdDog has about convinced me to back up one World War, and stick to the stick and fabric planes. The trade off is having to build twice as many wings as airplanes

Oh, one other thing....what's the difference between the TBF and TBM?
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Old 08-31-2008, 07:23 AM
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Default RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

Quote:
....what's the difference between the TBF and TBM?
khodges,

On the surface, the only real difference was in the manufacturer. The US Navy designated the manufacturer's ID in the letter suffix. The "TB" referred to Torpedo Bomber and the third letter noted the manufacturer. In this case, the TBF was made by Grumman while the TBM was made under license by General Motors. This was important as there were always differences, sometimes minor..........sometimes major, between the various makers and the maintenance crews needed to know which model they were dealing with.

Hope this helps.

Al
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Old 08-31-2008, 11:05 AM
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Default RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

Ken, as you and I can both see, these guys know their stuff so I won't be able to blow smoke at them and get away with it. Rrudytoo is absolutely correct with his references to Grumman and GM. I guess for me the quickest way to tell a TBF from a TBM is that the TBM had two vent holes facing the prop in the front portion (top and bottom) of the cowl and the TBF only had one vent hole (top) of the cowl. The bottom vent in the TBM was for the oil cooler. Ken, I have been researching this project the whole time we have been building the "DAWG's". I'm building what is termed the TBM-3E. Why - only because I like the external tail hook hanging out. To tell you the truth, it will be easier to make it operational. The other tail hooks were retracted up into the fuse. Ken, don't give up on warbird iron versus stick and fabric. Speaking of stick and fabric, I have a 1/3 scale Pup for you to build as your next project.

With regards to grading the 6th grade math and science papers, I'll have the kids grade their own papers with my special pencils. The pencils will have no erasers on them so they can only mark the papers wrong and not attempt to change their answers. Smile. Ha, ha. I'll therefore make my work load easier and can build more. Please do not talk about sanding, I'm still sanding on the DAWG in an attempt to put some latex on it soon. Word of advice guys: Go lightly on spraying on primer, trust me. Time to go eat some "Hot DAWGs" at my mother in law. Chic
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Old 09-01-2008, 05:39 PM
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Default RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

Whoooo, I've been calling this aircraft a TBM-3 Avenger. It was a TBM Avenger until it became British FAA property. The British FAA renamed the Avenger the Tarpon. Since I am building a TBM-3E, the correct name for my model is the Tarpon II. Thanks to Charlie Kellogg for the reminder. Chic
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Old 09-01-2008, 05:50 PM
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Default RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

FAA is the Fleet Air Arm which is the Royal Navy's Air Force.
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Old 09-01-2008, 08:25 PM
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Default RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build


Quote:
ORIGINAL: redtail

Whoooo, I've been calling this aircraft a TBM-3 Avenger. It was a TBM Avenger until it became British FAA property. The British FAA renamed the Avenger the Tarpon. Since I am building a TBM-3E, the correct name for my model is the Tarpon II. Thanks to Charlie Kellogg for the reminder. Chic
The reading that I've been doing says that it was initially called Tarpon by the Brits when the TBF's were being built, but they discontinued the use of that name and started using Avenger about the time that Grumman started phasing out their production and turned it over to GM's Eastern Aircraft Division, so they (Grumman) could increase production of the F6F. The Brits called the TBM-3 "Avenger MkIII".

The Dash-3 was the most-produced of the TBM series, with about 4600 produced, but the Dash-1 were the greater number in service until near the end of the war.

Another interesting tidbit I found was that Paul Newman was a rear gunner in a TBM, serving on the escort carrier USS Hollandia (CVE-97). He was at sea about 500 miles from Japan when Enola Gay dropped the Hiroshima bomb.
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Old 09-01-2008, 08:32 PM
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Default RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

The Avenger is a plane I eventually have to model. My grandfather was a tail gunner in one. He flew off the Fanshaw Bay.
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Old 09-02-2008, 12:43 AM
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Default RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

I am interested in this build and will be watching it unfold. Great aircraft to model. Good luck, keep us posted.

Craig
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Old 09-02-2008, 06:16 PM
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Default RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

Gringo Flyer and Canuck1, thanks for your support. Remember, I'll listen to one and all's hints, tips, advice. So do not just sit back and watch. Ken, I think your right again. Your research is pretty darn good buddy. I think it will be called an Avenger Mk. II. Where are you on your DAWG? I'm still sanding and thus moving toward painting. Oops, the door bell is ringing. Hey, Hey, Hey, my landing gear just arrived. Whooooo, they are huge. Let me get a ruler. Your looking at an 18 inch ruler laying beside the gear. You are looking at roughly 14 inches by 6 1/2 inches worth of precision cut metal. They are beautiful, I'm sitting here catching h#@% from the wife. This is my anniversary and I'm drooling over these landing gear. O'wellll. Got to go and drool some more. Chic
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Old 09-02-2008, 08:30 PM
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Default RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build


Quote:
ORIGINAL: redtail
, I'm sitting here catching h#@% from the wife. This is my anniversary and I'm drooling over these landing gear.
better be careful, you'll be unkinking your tailhook.

You got me interested in the plane, I've always been a fan of these big guys, but never had incentive to read up on them until now.

Another neat tidbit I found was that Grumman was holding an opening ceremony of its Plant #2 in Bethpage, NY (Long Island) where the TBF's were to be built, on December 7, 1941. The company president was called away just before the ceremony and was told of the attack on Pearl Harbor. He withheld the information from everyone until after the party, and then the plant was locked down, swept for saboteurs, and remained that way the remainder of the war.

Now that was an incentive for production.
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Old 09-02-2008, 08:40 PM
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Default RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

Somebody help me. I cheated, I really did. My students would thumb tack my thumbs to the blackboard along with one of Mr. White's special notes home to the parents. After playing with the landing gear for an hour or so, I was overcome by a strange, yet familiar feeling. I became overwhelmed, I grew out of control, and this is my anniversary night. As I ran pass my wife to the workshop, I heard my wife balling her eyes out. Hummm, sad. Anyway, I continued my rump to the workshop, tore open the box, separated the wood, found the stabilizer parts and instructions on building the stabilizer, and look what happen. I do not believe what happened in the shop. It was too easy. I had to get control of myself, so I stopped short of installing the leading edges. I then put the landing gear away, that is, out of sight. OK, I'm mediating now, I'm slowly getting back to being calm and under control. Deep breath now, get back to sanding the DAWG's tail feathers and planning tomorrows lesson on "Order of Operations". Chic
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Old 09-02-2008, 08:42 PM
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Default RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

Kool stuff Ken, keep digging.
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Old 09-02-2008, 08:45 PM
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Default RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

Guys, forgot to tell you that thing on the building board, that partial stabilizer, is 36 inches long, a yard long.
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Old 09-02-2008, 09:31 PM
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Default RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

Looks good. What was the cost for the landing gear? Hope you do not mind me asking. Just thinking of my next build after the Corsair, and trying to figure out the total cost, airframe and gear.
36" stab............she is going to be big.

Craig

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Old 09-02-2008, 10:22 PM
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Default RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build

The main and tail gear from Sierra will run about "eight". I got lucky, I had a recent birthday.
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Old 09-02-2008, 11:48 PM
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Default RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Canuck1

Looks good. What was the cost for the landing gear? Hope you do not mind me asking. Just thinking of my next build after the Corsair, and trying to figure out the total cost, airframe and gear.
36" stab............she is going to be big.

Craig


yup 108" wingspan!! We have a couple of full size flying examples based near here, seen them fly a few times. One had a main gear hang down for most of the flight. Must have had Robarts installed
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Old 09-03-2008, 12:01 AM
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Default RE: Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build


Quote:
ORIGINAL: redtail

The main and tail gear from Sierra will run about "eight". I got lucky, I had a recent birthday.

I get them too but i just get older
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