NCIS

didiwatt,

I just talked to Darrell at Seirra and he said the only difference between my gear and yours is the strut length. Yours is supposed to be shorter just a little. Maybe you got the gear for my size bird by mistake. That might be why you have to have it so far forward and the tire still rubs on your wings TE spar. If that is the case you probably wouldn't have had to be so far forward and then the bolt might have fit under you skin. Just a thought. It is your plane so I can't see if it would or not.

Barry

Ken-h

My Feedback: (3)

Paul,

Any progress on your bird? Like to see how it's coming along. Sam looks close to finishing that great looking P-47!

Ken

didiwatt

My Feedback: (38)

Yes, but I hesitated posting installation of the outer wing panels to the midsection on the wing tube version due to the that this thread was started for the folding wing version, plus I felt like I was stealing Sams thread.

Seems like you and I are one of the very few who purchased the wing tube version. Andreas told me there were so few ordered that the parts for attaching the outer wing panel to the midsection and illustrations in the manual on how to accomplish this were never finished. Had I know that from the get go, it would not have been so frustrating. This is a high quality expensive aircraft and the manual does not do it justice. I have been building for 40 years so I think I speak with a little knowledge.

With that being said, you just put some plywood on both sides of the ribs in the center of the wing panel and center section, drill out for bolt and wing nut then use balsa spacers to fill the void so not stress in created when tightening. I will take some pictures when you get there if you want any.

Then you make 2" false ribs for the front anti-rotation pin, just like their tail systems use.

I still do not understand the paragraph about the hard balsa used to strengthen the rear wing tube in the wing midsection. Mine is covered with heavy carbon fiber matt so I don't think any strenghtening is needed.

My leading edges were about 1/32" off leaving a small uneveness on both the top and bottom between the midsection and the wing panel. About the same amount on both right and left sides. This was created when the wing tubes were installled at the factory and I could not correct it with the front anti-rotation pin. Pretty minor but could be corrected at the factory.

I am now installing the airlerons and flaps. Once again, due to very poorly written instructions, I am spending four times longer trying to understand the installation process that actually doing it.

I read the section for installing the folding wing option and my prayers go out to Sam that he can get through it without slitting his throat. Very, very complicated and minimal information. With his ability, I suggest he re-write and re-illustrate the manual as he goes.

Paul

dbarrym

My Feedback: (47)

My kit just arrived today, yowza, well worth the wait. It is marked #40 of 48, so perhaps the first run ws only 48 kits? At well over $5k, selling 48 kits in the current economy is doing well!

Sam or Didi, have you selected any servos as yet? I'll likely use JR 8611's on the primary surfaces (except flaps, which will use analog 2721's)...hard to see what size servo is needed for the tailwheel, in the manual's grainy pic it looks like a mid-size...?

Also wondering if anyone knows what length (and where to find) the aluminum standofs used on the Moki radial as shown in the manual as well. Also spoke to Bryan at D-Balsa, he says he'll have a new cocpit kit sized to fit this kit in a few weeks. Someone with a C-ARF kit in hand is working with him on it...anyone here?

Hoping to start mine in the next month, still waiting for the gear and need to sell off another plane or two to make room in the shop. It's a biggie!

Barry

didiwatt

My Feedback: (38)

Hey Barry, If I remember right, yours is the arf version with flap and airleron hinges installed at the factory.

Could you give me a few measurements for flap hinge locations. For some reason, the pictures show them in different locations and I cannot figure out why.

With your center section laying upside down exposing the hinges, lets look at the left wing panel which of course would be on your right side. Then let's number the flaps from the center outward, Flap 1, Flap 2, and Flap 3 which would be on the wing panel.

Each flap has 2 hinges, one inner on the left side and one outer on the right side. I need to know where each hinge is located measured from the edge of the flap to the center of the hinge.

Flap #1 - measure from left flap end cap to the center of the hinge = ____________________
I understand the right hinge location which is a foursome with flap #2 left hinge

Flap #2 - This left is part of the foursome with flap #1 right hinge
Please measure from the right end cap inwards towards the center and the hinge center is ________________

Flap #3- measure from the left end cap to the center of the hinge = _____________________
measure from the right end cap back towards the center. The center of the hinge = ____________________

Hope this makes sense. If not, photographs with a ruler would suffice.

PS, am using all 8411 and 8611's cause that's what I have laying around. I am also using a radial but it is on BO so have not looked at the spacers yet.

Paul

dbarrym

My Feedback: (47)

Paul -

The center hole in ALL of the flap hinges are spaced 1-5/16" (1.31") from the LE of the flap - all 3 sections. See the photos below.

Barry

dbarrym

My Feedback: (47)

In case the above post was not what you were looking for, see photos below. Let me know if you need more measurements or different pics.

Barry

uncljoe

My Feedback: (8)

Barry
Glad your taking photos of your progress, If I decide to swing, I'll use your a/c for the beta ver. BTW I want to take shots of the maiden.
Semper Fi
Joe

dbarrym

My Feedback: (47)

Hey Joe - can't take any credit (yet) as mine is the ARF version with the hinging done. I'm just taking some pics to help a fellow Corsair bruddaman out.

You will be the first guy I call - I NEED pics of this one! I am resisting the urge to get started until I can sell off a couple more big birds to clear some space (and raise a few bucks to pay for the accessories!).

Looking forward to seeing you out West soon!

Barry

PS - Hoping to get down to Miramar this weekend to get your Rhino nose job pix...

didiwatt

My Feedback: (38)

Barry, you da man........... perfect, thank you very much.

In your second post, do you see that they are all a little different in spacing from right to left in relationship to the end cap of each flap. For instance, flap 1 inner (picture #1) is 1/2 inch. Flap #2 outer (picture #4) is a little less than 3/8". Heck, the two center ones are even a little different. I don't understand why they are different but oh well................

One more favor please, how about the outer wing panel flap? They appear to have very different measurements, like about 3/4". Could you get those for me.

And, while you have the wing panel in your hand........... hahaha the aileron is held onto the hinges with a brass tube that travels the length of the aileron. What do they do to prevent the tube from going into the aileron to far so that it could never be removed. Is there any sort of stop on the tube? You will see that if it goes in to far, there is no way you can grab it with any tool to remove it...

Paul

uncljoe

My Feedback: (8)

Barry
Will you have to cut out the wing to install the gear , like Paul did.
Semper Fi
Joe

dbarrym

My Feedback: (47)

Paul - I don't think the lateral location of the outer flap hinge is critical, but you can see in the pics that the inner hinge is about 3/4" from the root end and the outer hinge is 7/16" from the tip end of the flap.

Re the aileron, the retaining pin/tube is not installed on my wing yet, but I suspect you do it the same as the rudders on the big C-ARF aerobats - on my 40% Extra, I screwed into the tube a short, threaded piece of wire that had the end bent in a "L" shape, this was simply taped to the botton of the rudder or fuse. To remove the rudder, you pulled the tape and fished up the end of the wire using a dental pick, then it was easily removed with needle nose pliers. I think you could do the same here, taping the end of the wire to the aileron root, or Gooping it to the trailing edge/spar of the wing panel (just pick out the goop and pull the wire out as needed. That would be hidden from sight by the TE top and bottom skin overhang.

Joe - Don't know yet as I won't have my gear for another week or two, but I am hoping I can find a way to avoid exposing the retract mount corner/bolt. We'll see!

Barry

dbarrym

My Feedback: (47)

Just realized it was a brass tube on this bird, not plastic as it is on my Extra. Here's an idea - solder a thin brass tab onto one end of the tube and use a screw through the tab and into the aileron root to retain the tube. Again, just use a dental pick to pull up the edge and remove the tube. My $.01.....

Barry

didiwatt

My Feedback: (38)

Thanks Barry, the pictures were a lot of help. It may turn out that the lateral locations are not that critical but you sweat a lot when you start cutting holes in this nice of a bird. You definitely don't want to have to do it twice............

As far as the aileron brass tube, I soldered a round washer on the end of the tube. I then counter sunk the washer into the aileron because you have very little clearance between the aileron and the flap. Was just curious what the factory did on the arf because there is no mention of this in the manual.

Paul

Lee Estingoy

I've got one of these kits too. Amazing work.

Poor Darrel at Sierra. I think he's shipped something near 50 sets of gear. I'll bet he's going to get 50 calls from guys asking *** happened. The second run will no doubt be seriously improved over the first.

Let's hope that COMP ARF will update the manual by email in PDF form.

This thread will go a long way to helping sort out the fuzziness. Thanks for all the great posts.

Lee

samparfitt

My Feedback: (43)

FYI,
I just talked to Brian at Dynamics Balsa and it sounds like he should have the cockpit kit ready in about a week, or so.
He's working hard on the design.
His email:
[email protected]

samparfitt

My Feedback: (43)

solo prop ;

pic 1-4:
My solo prop came in.
It took 2 1/2 weeks to get here: It was sent via Canada/USA post office.
It was sent on Nov 27 so I probably got the last set that Carl made.
It appears to be very well made.
I haven't read the instructions yet but it appears I just turn the dial on the main hub which engages those pins on the ends of the prop blades for the proper pitch.
The ends of the blades have grooves and the hub has a raised ridge so once those two parts are engaged and the bolts are tightened, it seems like the props will be very secure.

pic 5:
I picked up some AA battery operated LED's Christmas lights at the local store.
For 5 bucks, they may be useful to cannibalize for landing lights!

Now that I've finished my Robart P-47 (no painted insignias until Spring), I started reading the manual again.

samparfitt

My Feedback: (43)

solo prop:

pic 1-3:
a few more pics of the prop hub and blade ends.

NCIS

samparfitt,

Here is my 4 blade hub from Carl. I had a 3 blade hub but decided to modify my DS 1/4 scale F4U-1D Corsair into a F4U-5N or F4U-7 Corsair. I have already changed the spine area behind the cockpit and got an aluminum framed riveted canopy from Graham at Tiger Models. He used to make the F4U-5N's but now they are all 1D's I think. I posted a couple pic's don't mean to be stealing your thread. One is the hub and the 16" blades and the second is the fuse with the canopy after the spine modification.

Barry/Gibbs

samparfitt

My Feedback: (43)

Barry,
Looks like you're doing real nice work.
Also, looks like those cowl flaps are open nice and wide to allow plenty of air to pass for engine cooling.

samparfitt

My Feedback: (43)

Reading manual:

So far, I've found seven items in the manual for me to remember:

1) Page 14: Initially, I thought all that I had to do was attach the inner claw of the folding mechanism to the inner wing spar.
Any binding on the inner claw will stop the operation of the folding wing so this is a very critical step.
The claw has to be coated with epoxy before putting it on the spar, the bolts are waxed so they aren't epoxied in.
The manual says to almost tighten the nuts to the bolts while the epoxy dries but it seems better to just push the bolts into the holes to hold the claw to the spar: once the epoxy dries, it will have filled any voids between the claw and spar so no binding will occur and then the bolts can be tightened with the nuts attached.

2) page 14 shows a CF tube being put on the end of the aluminum folding wing mechanism in a picture and page 15 has them putting epoxy on that tubing when epoxy'ing the CF sleeve to the wing.
I didn't get any CF tubing in my kit so I'm assuming this is not epoxied when the CF sleeve is epoxied to the wing.

3) Page 15 has using two M4 bolts to be drilled/tapped into the folding outer wing, CF sleeve and the 'aluminum wing fold' AFTER the CF sleeve is epoxied into the outer wing.
This allows the outer wing to be removed.
The hydraulic cylinder is just below where the drilling is done plus you have to try to get the hole exactly in the center of the aluminum bar after it's in the wing and the CF sleeve is epoxied to the wing.
Before installing the CF sleeve, I'm drilling/tapping the holes in the CF sleeve and aluminum wing fold so after I epoxy the CF sleeve to the wing, I can just drill a very small hole in the outer wing where the tapped hole is and then enlarge the wing hole to get the bolt in.

4) Page 15: when epoxy'ing the CF sleeve to the outer wing, insert the aluminum alignment tube in the back of the wing since the tube must slide into a FG tube when the wing closes so this must be accurate when the outer wing is epoxied to the CF sleeve.
Page 18 has the installation of the aluminum tubing.

5) Page 17 shows two very large cuts into the outer wing to allow the outer wing to fold.
I was assuming that the wing would not have any cuts.
The center cut can be hidden by the piece of panel that lifts up when the wing moves (per prototype).
I'll have to use some spring hinges to hold it down (probably sonictronic sprung hinges).
From looking at the video at Joe Nall, it appears that 'they' just leave the front slot open in the wing.
The front slot is for the second rotation point (two needed to keep the wing aligned) where two large aluminum hinges that pivot around each other.
Right at the beginning of the video, it appears that the center panel piece moves up and there is a slot on the front of the wing.
http://www.rcuvideos.com/video/F4Ucomparf01-AVI
Page 15 has a picture of where it appears that they have cut out that entire moving panel to make room for the folding wing mechanism.
(hopefully, the guys that got the deluxe ARF version, can elaborate on this!)

6) page 26 has the aileron servo being installed which is after the CF sleeve is epoxied into the outer wing.
The aileron servo is a good foot into the outer wing (on a rib) and it'll be much easier to install it BEFORE the CF sleeve is epoxied in.

7) you also might want to down load the manual off the web site to your hard drive.
Just in case you ever loose your original hard copy and the web site version has color pictures which makes some explanations easier to see than the black and white pictures in our manuals that came in the kit.

didiwatt

My Feedback: (38)

Sam, I have completed the wing section on my wing tube version.

I have a wealth of information and misinformation in the manaul. Some may be specific to the wing tube version and some may not. Here is just a couple for starters.

Look more closely at the airleron servo installation. On my wing, if you intall the servo on the root side of the rib, not only is it almost impossible to do so, your linkage is on the wrong side of the rib. The linkage has to be on the wing tip side of the rib to reach the airleron, which of course is impossible without cutting a hatch door. A least that is all I could figure out. See what you think.

I cut a hatch door. If you are careful and make it small enough, you can cut a door out of the left over carbon fiber plate used to make the wheel cover doors. It works very good and can be rivited to match.

On page 26 - outer flap servo
I did not have any room between the outer rib and the outer tube plate (which you install) for the linkage rod. I had to modify the location of attachment on the flap and run the linkage on the inside of the rib. Works perfect.

This page also shows the aileron servo installed. Take a look at the rear spar where the aileron hinges are installed. This rib pictured is visible on the spar and there is a jog in the rib here for the flap. The pictured side of the rib would put the linkage on the flap side of the rib not the aileron side. IS YOURS THE SAME WAY?

The lateral spacing on the flap hinges is important for several reasons you will see during installation so pay attention to the earlier posts.

Have you installed your retracts yet? Just curious if they are to long like mine.

My struts measures 11 1/2" and I think they are suppose to be 11".

LOL
Paul

samparfitt

My Feedback: (43)

Paul,
I put the aileron into the TE of the wing and it protrudes about a 1/2" past that jog so it seems like the servo can be mounted facing the inside and operate the aileron. I'm glad you pointed that out so I'm aware of it as I install the hinges and control horn.
It definitely doesn't hurt to put a servo hatch there as no one will ever see it anyway.

Looking at the flap servo on page 26, it looks like I can get the control rod by the tubing but, again, it's good to be aware of potential problems as I build this baby.

My retracts are still being made.
One nice thing if they're too long: it's easier to make them shorter than longer!

===============
Wing folding:

Aluminum mechanism:

pic 1-3:
As mentioned previously, I'm drilling/tapping the holes to hold the outer wing BEFORE epoxying the CF sleeve to the outer wing.
In order for me to do this properly to get a perpendicular hole into the aluminum bar, I needed to use a vise to hold the piece and do all drilling on a drill press.
I moved the claw end of the mechanism down so the hydraulic cylinder/rod is as far away as possible from where I am drilling.
The three pictures show the progression of bits from the pilot hole of 5/64" to the next size of 1/8" and the final hole of 5/32" bit.
As always, I used cutting oil and had to back out several times to remove the waste that accumulates in the bit flutes.
Forcing the bit to cut only heats up the end of the bit and ruins it.
mmmmm: I noticed in the picture that the column on the drill press is rusting: that fire that I had in my shop a few years ago keeps the rust coming back on some of my tools.

pic 4:
Cutting oil and the 10X32 tap used on the two holes.
This is a slow process as only 1 1/2 to 2 turns can be done on the tap before the waste material clogs up the tap threads.
Any attempt to force the tap in will probably result in snapping the tap inside the hole: usually force only makes you apply side pressure which will snap the tap in half: taps are very hard but also very brittle. If a part of a 'snapped' tap is not showing so you can get it out with a pliers, it's virtually impossible to remove them and a new hole in a new location is necessary.
So, it's best to take your time and clean out the threads after just a few turns.
I drilled/tapped through the entire width of the aluminum to make drilling/tapping easier as some of the waste/oil can fall out the bottom of the hole.

pic 5-8:
One task completed.
If the CF sleeve was already epoxied into the wing, I think that I would have a very difficult time performing this task.

pic 9:
In the picture, there are four metric screws that were provided in the kit for this job.
I choose large 10X32 by 1/2" long bolts as they are easier to insert in the holes and, here in the 'STATES', I'm used to using U.S. units of measure so it'll be much easier to get a new bolt if one is lost (plus that's the kind of taps that I have! ).

samparfitt

My Feedback: (43)

outer wings.

ailerons:
The supplied hinges rotate on a kit supplied brass tubing that goes into the aileron from the inside edge.
The hinges go inside slots pre-cut in the LE of the ailerons.

pic 1/2:
I believe the brass tubing is 5/32" diameter.
In order to keep the brass tubing from going too far into the end hole of the aileron and also to be able to pull the tubing out for future maintenance, I soldered some solid brass wire and a smaller diameter brass tubing in one end.

pic 3:
The holes in the end of the hinges needed to be enlarge.
I used a #20 drill bit to match the brass tubing's diameter.
It's best to use the proper size bit as you don't want slop in the hinges.
I'm assuming numbered bits can be obtained at HD or places like harbor freight.

pic 4:
top/bottom view of the ailerons with the hinges and brass tubing installed.
I filed the other end of the brass tubing with a small beveled end so the tubing will not snag on the hinges or internal area of the aileron.

pic 5/6/7:
I drilled out four small holes in the opposite end of the control horns to give the epoxy something to hold onto.
I'll also be drilling some holes into the other end of the hinges before epoxy'ing them into the TE of the wing.
The control horn is, presently, just dry fitted in place.
After I epoxy the control horn into place and it dries, I'll probably drill and put some #0 screws into the end of the aileron and through the control horn and into the spar to insure the control horn never comes loose.
I used a dremel cut off disk to cut the corner of the LE of the ailerons so the control horn can be installed.
I used and x-acto #2 blade and some fine files to make a slot on the end of the small spar built into the ailerons so the control horn can be epoxied in.
I just used a small tack hammer to hit the bent wire on the end of the brass tubing into the end of the aileron.

=============
pic 8-10:
The Robart P-47 along with my other 'babies' are all put away for the season.
I've got some parts of the corsair in the 'PC' room so I can reference what others have done in this thread and to reference the color manual, online.

samparfitt

My Feedback: (43)

outer wings (cont)

ailerons (cont)
I needed to correctly transfer the hinges on the ailerons to the TE of the wing.

pic 1-3:
I cut the slots for the kit provided hinges at the following dimensions:
The measurements are from the inside edge of the TE of the wing where a jog in the TE occurs just before the end of the inside end of the aileron.
From this 'jog' to the left edge of the first slot for the hinge is 7/16"
The second measurement (also from the jog, middle hinge) is 7 3/8"
The last measurement (outside hinge) is 14 1/4"

pic 4:
I recessed the edge of the aileron so the 'L' shaped brass wire is flush with the side and not protruding out.

pic 5/6:
There is a mold edge at the bottom end of both ends of the ailerons as well as the flaps that need to be sanded flush to the sides.

pic 7-9:
As you can see, when the outer flap and aileron are put 'end to end', there's no room for these two parts to move.
This is why we need to remove those ridges on the ends plus why I recessed that brass wire.
Even with these mods, I needed to remove a 1/16" off the outside edge of the wing so I can move the aileron over.
I didn't want to sand the ends of the ailerons or flaps as those walls are very thin so the only logical place was the outside edge of the wing. This spot is hollow inside so a razor saw and a little sanding made quick work of removing 1/16" off that edge.

pic 10:
As you can see in this picture, we need to have the hinges half way up those slots so the ailerons can move an equal distance up and down. To get the hinges located vertically the following dimensions were used:
Inside hinge is 1/4" from the top of the wing.
The middle and outside hinges are 3/16" from the top of the wing.
I used an x-acto #2 blade to cut the slots and a file for final 'tune up'.
Note that I also put five holes in the hinges for extra holding when the epoxy is applied.
Everything is dry fitting.
I won't be gluing the outer flap or ailerons until I install the folding wing (which I can now do since the aileron servo problem has been resolved) to insure all flaps and ailerons are aligned with each other.