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  1. #176
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    RE: COMP ARF 110" F4U ARF WITH FOLDING WING ASSEMBLY


    ORIGINAL: samparfitt

    Barry,
    I spoke to Brian at dynamic balsa just before Christmas and he should have the cockpit kit out shortly.
    I think he said that he's making up 15 kits, so, if there are 50 F4U's being make, I suggest you get your order in quickly.
    A plane this size needs a nice cockpit.

    Paul,
    I've got a soloprop so it already has its own hub although it appears that truturn should meet your needs as they have hubs up to 2" in diameter.
    Thanks Sam - I also spoke to Brian around the same time, already put my name on the waiting list.

    Cheers -

    Barry


  2. #177

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    RE: COMP ARF 110" F4U ARF WITH FOLDING WING ASSEMBLY

    Left wing:
    Finally got back to working on the F4U after the holidays.
    As with the right wing (see post #135 for hinge locations), we install the hinges for the ailerons and flaps.
    The aileron and flaps were dry fitted and taped in place and felt tip marked between the wing TE and the aileron and flaps.
    The felt tip on the aileron and flaps allows me to properly align each part as they are, individually, glued on.

    Aileron:

    pic 1:
    Using an xacto blade, I cut three slots into the TE of the wing.

    pic 2-4:
    I used epoxy and micro-balls to attach the hinges to the wing.
    I used a long piece of masking tape to pull the aileron flush to the outside wing edge since there's not a lot of room between the aileron and flap.
    I can later sand off the edge of the wing to give clearance for aileron movement.
    I insured there's a uniform gap along the top between the wing and aileron: This gives us enough UP movement without having to sand the TE of the top of the wing.

    pic 5:
    Aileron brass tube removed so the aileron can be removed, showing the hinges epoxied to the wing.
    As with the right wing, the aileron hinges are epoxied close to the top wing surface to get proper aileron movement.

    pic 6:
    I made up some extra epoxy and micro-balls to fill in around the hinges on the Right wing.

    pic 7:
    A Fein detail sander works real nice for quick sanding of airplane parts.
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    G. Samuel Parfitt

  3. #178

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    RE: COMP ARF 110" F4U ARF WITH FOLDING WING ASSEMBLY

    Left Wing (cont)

    Flaps:

    pic 1-8:
    All the rectangular holes for the flap hinges are felt tip marked on the wing/flaps.
    The wing side of the hinge is 7/8" back from the TE of the wing and then the flap hinge is 1 1/4" forward of the wing side hinge.
    (see previous posts on more details when the right wing was done)
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    G. Samuel Parfitt

  4. #179

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    RE: COMP ARF 110" F4U ARF WITH FOLDING WING ASSEMBLY

    Left wing (cont)

    Flaps (cont)

    pic 1/2:
    The slots cut the same way as for the right wing using the brass plate jig and grinding bit.

    pic 3:
    Flap edges sanded to remove 'mold' lip.

    pic 4-9:
    Dry fit the flap hinges.
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    G. Samuel Parfitt

  5. #180

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    RE: COMP ARF 110" F4U ARF WITH FOLDING WING ASSEMBLY

    Sam,

    What are you using to hold the hinges in the flap and wing? I would expect epoxy. I like the hinges and am going to copy you on mine if you don't mind!

    Good job,

    Barry
    Barry - Owner of Canopy Rails For Warbirds

  6. #181

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    RE: COMP ARF 110" F4U ARF WITH FOLDING WING ASSEMBLY

    Barry,
    Just good ol' fashin epoxy and micro-balls.
    The hinges came with the kit.
    G. Samuel Parfitt

  7. #182

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    RE: COMP ARF 110" F4U ARF WITH FOLDING WING ASSEMBLY

    Left wing (cont)

    Flaps (cont)

    pic 1-3:
    The flap hinges were first connected to the wing side using epoxy and micro-balls.
    The brass plate in the picture is the jig used to route out the hinge slots.
    The grinding bit is rough on the brass slot so I had to make another slot as the original dimensions of the slot sides got wavy and wider from the grinding bit.

    pic 4-6:
    The flap sides of the hinges were then epoxied in place, doing one flap at a time and taping each end to it's neighbor while the epoxy dried.
    After the epoxy on the first flap was dry, I then did the second flap and finally, the third.
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    G. Samuel Parfitt

  8. #183

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    RE: COMP ARF 110" F4U ARF WITH FOLDING WING ASSEMBLY

    I am finally finished with the tail group. No real problems other than the stab tube being to short. I got a 10mm x 400mm carbon fiber tube from Troybuilt. I spent hours sanding on it to get it to fit. I see graphtec makes one so I would try them instead. Don't know who's measurement was off, comp-arf or troybuilt.
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    Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak!!!

  9. #184

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    RE: COMP ARF 110" F4U ARF WITH FOLDING WING ASSEMBLY

    Here's the gear down and doors closed. I just used the single door set-up because I am not going to use a tailhook. Plan on using air cylinders on the doors.
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    Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak!!!

  10. #185

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    RE: COMP ARF 110" F4U ARF WITH FOLDING WING ASSEMBLY

    Since I do not have all the folding wing mechanism's, I have lots of room in the wing section. Installing all the radio and retract gear sure makes it easy.
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    Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak!!!

  11. #186

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    RE: COMP ARF 110" F4U ARF WITH FOLDING WING ASSEMBLY

    Yo Paul,
    Lookin' good, dude.
    The 20mmX400MM was what I measured.
    I notice that TBM has a notice that the diameters can vary: even a fraction of an inch can make a big difference.
    Too bad yours wasn't smaller instead of larger: I would think adding some thick CA or CA some thin FG cloth would be easier to enlarge the tube versus making it smaller.
    I just talked to Larry Tudor, a 'rep' for comparf, and he emailed comparf on the tubing so I'll wait for them to send me one.
    If I needed it right away, I'd buy it but I've got lots to do on this plane plus two others to build so I can wait.
    G. Samuel Parfitt

  12. #187

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    RE: COMP ARF 110" F4U ARF WITH FOLDING WING ASSEMBLY

    Anybody know what voltage is used on the folding wing pump?
    I didn't find anything in the manual and my email to Larry hasn't been answered, yet.
    G. Samuel Parfitt

  13. #188

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    RE: COMP ARF 110" F4U ARF WITH FOLDING WING ASSEMBLY

    Try Andreas directly. He got back to me a couple times within a day.

    andreas@composite-arf.com

    Paul
    Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak!!!

  14. #189

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    RE: COMP ARF 110" F4U ARF WITH FOLDING WING ASSEMBLY

    Paul,
    thanks, I emailed him, also.

    ================
    Folding wings (cont)

    Oil pump/valve setup:
    I cut out the top of the center wing and mounted the service tray along with the pump parts and landing gear parts.
    After getting this done it dawned on me:
    There are no instructions on how to run the pump and valve?
    It seems that the valve will have to be thrown first (as with retracts) but how is the oil pump turned on?
    Also, how is the oil pumped turn off once the wings reach their end points: Unlike the air in retracts, the oil pump must be turned off once the wing cylinders reach their end points.
    Anybody get this far yet?
    I sent off some emails to the 'reps'.

    pic 1:
    The original smaller hole that I previously cut into the center of the wing so I could see how large of an opening can be made (limited by the TE and main spar).

    pic 2:
    The final hole cut into the center wing.
    I cut some 3/8" X 8 1/2" long oak wood, epoxied them on top of the angled joint in the wing.
    You can just see one of the inner flap servos which I figured I might as well mount before putting in the service tray.
    The kit has the servo holes already in the side of the rib and I used HS-645's.

    pic 3:
    I then used six hex head servo screws to mount the service tray (I have no idea what those original holes in the tray are for!).

    pic 4:
    I made another 1/8" thick tray for the oil reservoir and put the tray on four blocks that are 1 3/4" high.
    The pump/filter comes with a kit provided tray.
    I used four hex head servo screws to hold the pump tray to the main service tray and some velcro to hold the pump to the pump tray.

    pic 5/6:
    I figured it was easiest to also install the gear/door valves at this time.
    I used HS-225 servos.
    The two pictures show the open/close servo arm positions.
    With the Jomar gear/door sequencer, no servo travel adjustment is possible from the transmitter so the servo arms have to be very short: so short that I had to drill a new hole closer to the servo arm center.
    Also note that the servo arm travel ends 'pointing' at the air valve while the other end is perpendicular to the air valve: the 'pointed' end allows using up excess movement by moving perpendicular to the air valve (thus no air cylinder movement).

    pic 7:
    The oil reservoir with the two metal connectors.
    One has a long aluminum tube attached to it.
    The tube has a piece of green tubing on the end and it wouldn't go past the opening (plastic tubing) in the reservoir so I just left it in the opening (plastic tubing).
    I'm assuming it is to keep the 'sharp' end of the aluminum tube from puncturing the thin plastic oil reservoir but since it'll be full, I'm also assuming the end of the aluminum tube won't touch the sides of the reservoir.
    The metal connectors have doughnut shapes on them: I pushed the opening (plastic tubing) of the reservoirs past these doughnut shapes:you want the openings (plastic tubing) to be past the doughnut shapes as there is a nut that then is screwed on the other end and that will hold the opening (plastic tubing) of the reservoir against the front side of the doughnut shape and prevent any leaks (hopefully!).

    pic 8:
    The oil reservoir tray on the blocks plus the Jomar gear/door sequencer (yellow box).
    The reservoir needs to be raised to 1) make room for the gear valves and 2) make room for the pump battery (the voltage, yet to be determined).

    pic 9:
    I used an HS-81 servo to control the oil valve.
    There is no built in means of securing the oil valve so I epoxied a small piece of 1/4" thick ply to the service tray, put the oil valve on it and then used thin brass sheeting and hex head servo screws to hold the oil valve in place.
    I raised the valve off the service tray since I figured it would need some room to insert/remove the oil lines going into the oil valve.
    I found it easiest to just used some sullivan's yellow gold-n-rod to connect the oil valve to the servo arm: the yellow tubing flexes enough to not allow any binding. The oil valve is threaded on the end of the cylinder shaft so the yellow tubing was easy to secure to it.
    One outlet on the right side of the oil valve goes to the oil reservoir (input oil into the oil valve) and the two outlets in the back are for up/down wings (respectively).
    mmmmm: I just noticed that they only gave me one 'T' festo fitting and two will be needed to operate the wing cylinders.
    (anybody else just get one or was there two 'T' fittings in your kit?)
    Just looked at the manual and the picture only shows one 'T' fitting.
    Also, there's no tubing to connect the oil reservoir to the oil valve plus I don't know what size tubing to get for it.


    pic 10/11:
    Service tray mounted in the center wing.






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    G. Samuel Parfitt

  15. #190

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    RE: COMP ARF 110" F4U ARF WITH FOLDING WING ASSEMBLY

    Folding wings (cont)

    Oil pump/valve set up (cont)

    I've never used festo before but I think that I've figured out what I need:
    I noticed that the blue ends of the festo fitting have numbers on them indicating the diameter of tubing in mm that will go into the festo fitting.
    Stuff that I just ordered from dreamworks:
    https://www.dreamworksrc.com
    15' of 3mm tubing that run to each folding wing mechanism (which has 3mm festo connectors).
    2' of 6mm tubing that needs to connect to the oil reservoir (I think it's that size!).
    2' of 4mm tubing that goes into the input side of the oil valve.
    A 6-4mm reducer fitting (for the conversion of the above oil reservoir to the oil valve.
    Two 4-3mm reducer fitting (for the conversion out of the two oil valve: the valve uses 4mm whereas the wing cylinders use 3mm)
    Two 3mm T fittings (from the oil valve to each of the wing cylinders).
    The one T fitting in the kit is a 4-6mm conversion which, as I see it, is not used.
    (an extra 57 bucks)

    item numbers:
    2 x Festo 4mm Clear Tubing (PUN-4) = $2.50
    15 x Festo 3mm Tubing (PUN-3) = $16.50
    2 x Festo 6mm Clear Tubing (PUN-6C) = $2.70
    2 x Festo 4mm - 3mm Reducer (FES-SM4-3) = $9.50
    2 x Festo 3mm Tee (QSMT-3) = $11.20
    1 x Festo 6mm - 4mm Reducer (FES-SM6-4) = $4.75

    G. Samuel Parfitt

  16. #191

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    RE: COMP ARF 110" F4U ARF WITH FOLDING WING ASSEMBLY

    Folding wings (cont)

    Oil pump/valve (cont)

    It looks like we can use regular yellow gas tygon tubing on the low pressure sides from the oil reservoir to the input side of the pump and from the oil valve to the oil reservoir.
    It looks like the accumulator (which I thought was just for foreign material collection) detects which side of the oil valve is low pressure and then automatically turns on the pump. Initially, I have to put 3-4 lbs of pressure into the accumulator so it can turn the pump on.
    The accumulator has a festo one-way valve connected to it where the air is inputted.
    It appears that all I need to do is throw the oil valve servo and the pump will automatically stop after the accumulator reaches 'equal pressure' which I assume will occur when the wing cylinder reaches the other end of the cylinder: pretty cool.
    All I need now is voltage requirements (plus some baby oil).
    G. Samuel Parfitt

  17. #192
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    RE: COMP ARF 110" F4U ARF WITH FOLDING WING ASSEMBLY

    Hi,

    This is a great thread. My kit (plug-in wing) is supposed to be here around the end of January. I am thinking about using a DA-150, but I don't know if it will fit. I would appreciate it if one of you that already received your kit could measure the diameter of the cowl and post it here.

    Thanks.

    Onewing

  18. #193

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    RE: COMP ARF 110" F4U ARF WITH FOLDING WING ASSEMBLY

    I checked that out several months ago.
    The 150's plugs will stick out the sides.
    Being optimistic, the most is 12 1/2".
    G. Samuel Parfitt

  19. #194
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    RE: COMP ARF 110" F4U ARF WITH FOLDING WING ASSEMBLY

    Hi Sam,

    Thanks. I may just have to bite the bullet a get a radial.

    Onewing

  20. #195

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    RE: COMP ARF 110" F4U ARF WITH FOLDING WING ASSEMBLY

    Boy, am I slow. I just realized that for the healthy output on the landing gear, you do not get an air valve. Not even a basic one for just the gear. I really like the sequencing valve from Sierra but it is an additional $100. Got the mains and doors working good. Am now working on the tail wheel doors. They require a 1/2" throw, unlike the mains which require a 1" throw.

    Oh well, the good news is that my 250 Radial is in and will be in my hot little hands Thursday.............

    Paul
    Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak!!!

  21. #196
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    RE: COMP ARF 110" F4U ARF WITH FOLDING WING ASSEMBLY

    Right on Paul! I have the engine and no airframe...haha. The good news is that I should being seeing it at the end of the month. Bad news is finding the time to getting her together sometime this year. Guess I'll drop almost everything else.

    Ken

  22. #197

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    RE: COMP ARF 110" F4U ARF WITH FOLDING WING ASSEMBLY

    Sam,

    I forgot I asked about the hinges but when checking out your progress I found it. Thanks for the reply. What are the hinges made out of?

    Barry
    Barry - Owner of Canopy Rails For Warbirds

  23. #198
    dbarrym's Avatar
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    RE: COMP ARF 110" F4U ARF WITH FOLDING WING ASSEMBLY


    ORIGINAL: didiwatt

    Boy, am I slow. I just realized that for the healthy output on the landing gear, you do not get an air valve. Not even a basic one for just the gear. I really like the sequencing valve from Sierra but it is an additional $100. Got the mains and doors working good. Am now working on the tail wheel doors. They require a 1/2" throw, unlike the mains which require a 1" throw.

    Oh well, the good news is that my 250 Radial is in and will be in my hot little hands Thursday.............

    Paul

    I would suggest using a high flow mechanical air valve, such as the BVM unit (see http://www.bvmjets.com/Pages/hi_flow_valve.htm )...I have had issues with pulling up the gear on on my 1/5 scale L39 (each strut with 5" wheel weighs 1.5 lbs) using the normal Robart mechanical and a Jetronic electronic valves, the BVM unit seems to put out enough air to reliably allow 5 full cycles on 100psi (large Robart air tank)...with the smaller valves, I'd get 2 cycles before running into door timing and partial retraction problems.

    A hint - you can use cylinders with a longer throw if needed, just limit the travel using wheel collars on the output shaft. I do this all the time to fine-tune the travel on my gear door actuator installations.

    Barry

  24. #199

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    RE: COMP ARF 110" F4U ARF WITH FOLDING WING ASSEMBLY

    Barry,
    The manual calls the brown hinge material, phenolic.

    ==============
    Outer wings (cont)

    Ailerons (cont).

    pic 1:
    I used the kit provided control hinges and drilled four extra holes in one end so the epoxy will hold them better.
    The best distance that I could get from the hinge pin is about 3/4" and I had to put the control horn in upside down (flat side up) to get the best distance between the hinge point and control horn point of rotations.

    pic 2:
    After removing the inside corner of the aileron, I used an xacto blade to cut a thin slot in the balsa former inside the aileron.

    pic 3:
    I used epoxy and micro-balls and used a popcicle stick and also let gravity get epoxy down into the slot and also covered the control horn. I put some scotch tape on the exposed end to keep the epoxy off that end.
    I put both ends next to each other to insure symmetry.

    pic 4:
    Epoxy dry and tape off.

    pic 5:
    These control horns are going to get lots of torque so I drilled/screwed two #2 button head wood screws through the control horn to re-enforce the epoxy.

    pic 6:
    I replaced the 3mm threaded rod in the kit with 4-40 threaded rod, used a heavy duty 4-40 ball socket on the servo arm and a sullivan threaded clevis on the control horn end along with a locking nut and tubing over the clevis. I used the sullivan clevis because the threaded end has an interlocked side instead of just a straight side:
    http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXRU49&P=ML
    I would have preferred another ball socket on the control horn but there's not much room to work with my 'fat' hands.
    I had to connect the clevis to the control horn before putting the aileron onto the hinges.

    pic 7:
    The ailerons in neutral positon.

    pic 8/9:
    These pictures aren't very good but here's the left/right throws.
    I'm getting about 7/8" and 1" throws which is plenty for me.

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    G. Samuel Parfitt

  25. #200

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    RE: COMP ARF 110" F4U ARF WITH FOLDING WING ASSEMBLY

    Outer wings (cont)

    Flaps (cont)

    pic 1:
    As with the ailerons, for the flaps, I initially used a dremel heavy duty cut off disk to make the slot on the inside edge of the LE of the flap, and then used an xacto blade/saw to make a thin slot in the balsa former inside the flap.
    I drilled four extra holes in the opposite end of the phenolic control horn, mixed up some epoxy and micro-balls and after the epoxy cured, I also put two #2 wood button head screws through the inside edge of the flap and into the control horn and balsa former (I used button heads to keep the moving surface next to it from snagging the screws).
    I used HS-645 servos (133 oz at 6 volts: as with the ailerons).
    I used the longest servo control arm included in the box which gave me 1 1/16" throw.
    The control horn hole for the clevis is 1 7/8" to the hinge pivot. I will be using this same distance when I connect the inner flaps to insure equal distant movement on all flaps. I set the throws to 150% in both directions for the servo to get max flap movement.
    Before epoxy'ing the control horn to the flap, I made sure that the control rod did not touch the rear alignment tube. I needed to keep the control horn as low as possible to the bottom of the flap to prevent any touching.
    As with most flaps, I had to use a servo reverser Y to get both servos to move in the same direction.
    Here's the heavy duty screwed on ball links that I use:
    http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXFPW8
    The ball link was put on the inside(bottom) side of the servo control arm to get alignment with the flap control horn.

    pic 2:
    Flaps in neutral.

    pic 3:
    50% throw.

    pic 4:
    Full flaps gives me about a 60 degree angle.
    My JR 2.4 X9303 transmitter has a two position toggle switch.
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    G. Samuel Parfitt


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