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which country had the best fighter planes of WWII

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which country had the best fighter planes of WWII

Old 01-04-2009, 08:31 PM
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skull1971
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Default RE: which country had the best fighter planes of WWII


ORIGINAL: GIR8

Its true enough as we are all patriotic to our own countries of course we are going to say the best is onw from our own country.

But here is a parting shot for tonight a bit of track but here goes concorde the most beautiful passenger Jet ever built and the US had nothing to do with it the eurofighter as the best modern fighter UK Italy Spain Germany OH yet again no US input.

Then some idiot decides they have had enough of the harrier and decide to go with the F35 which can't actually take of vertically and is far to heavy for our current carriers
#1 not true, I voted for Germany

#2 True dat!! the Ford Tri-motor was from the U.S. [:'(]

#3 I myself could care less about the new aircraft, the new jets are just a bunch of computers flying around. The UAV's prove that the pilot is no longer needed. SO for me, if it ain't got a prop, and pistons, I really ain't interested.
Old 01-04-2009, 08:39 PM
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Default RE: which country had the best fighter planes of WWII

the intent of the post again was to look at all countries and there hardware as a whole and in an unbiased manner. Its hard for some as we are seeing. But off opic here GIR8, whats your point about the F35 and the Eurofighter? The Harrier as ALL aircraft go was getting long in the tooth. Still being used and effective. The F35 does doa vertical takeoff. Remember there are 3 different versions. If we all had the same fighter, then chances are , you could have a common mode failure. Diversity is the way to go. We dont all want to think in the same way or look the same way. Not all planes can do all jobs....
Old 01-04-2009, 08:41 PM
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Default RE: which country had the best fighter planes of WWII

Even though I say the Germans had the best fighters in WWII, the best aircraft ever made was the SR-71 Blackbird from the United States.

Have you people over in England heard what our new President wants to do? He wants to scrap the F-22 Raptor... seems like everytime we get a Democrat in office they want to close the bases and screw up our millitary. Will someone remind him we are at war right now? [:@]

Old 01-04-2009, 09:01 PM
  #454  
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Default RE: which country had the best fighter planes of WWII

The Sea Fury/Fury started life as the "Tempest Light Fighter". Hawker was trying to increase the range of the Tempest by reducing weight. They shortened the span of the wing center section and made a few other minor refinements, such as redesigning the fin and raising the height of the cockpt for better forward visibility. Thus was born the Fury and its navalized variant, the Sea Fury. The Tempest V saw action the last year of the war. The Tempest II had the Centaurus in it and was ready for the invasion of Japan.

I read Ron Pottinger's "A View from the Office" last summer. An excellent read if you like the Typhoon and Tempest V. I believe it is his book that repeated the British wartime saying:

When we shoot, the Germans duck.
When the Germans shoot, we duck.
When the Americans shoot, we all duck.
Old 01-04-2009, 09:08 PM
  #455  
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Default RE: which country had the best fighter planes of WWII

ORIGINAL: Veltro

The Sea Fury/Fury started life as the "Tempest Light Fighter". Hawker was trying to increase the range of the Tempest by reducing weight. They shortened the span of the wing center section and made a few other minor refinements, such as redesigning the fin and raising the height of the cockpt for better forward visibility. Thus was born the Fury and its navalized variant, the Sea Fury. The Tempest V saw action the last year of the war. The Tempest II had the Centaurus in it and was ready for the invasion of Japan.

I read Ron Pottinger's "A View from the Office" last summer. An excellent read if you like the Typhoon and Tempest V. I believe it is his book that repeated the British wartime saying:

When we shoot, the Germans duck.
When the Germans shoot, we duck.
When the Americans shoot, we all duck.
And everyone ducks when people from Texas start shooting. [sm=lol.gif] People here at Upstate NY usually say, (" Honest officer, he looked like a Deer!" ) Dosen't work very well when the dead person is wearing a orange hat.
Old 01-04-2009, 09:16 PM
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Default RE: which country had the best fighter planes of WWII

When we shoot, the Germans duck.
When the Germans shoot, we duck.
When the Americans shoot, we all duck.

Hehehehehe, I like that!!

And everyone ducks when people from Texas start shooting. [sm=lol.gif]
Hey I've never shot anyone,,,,, that didn't need shooting. [>:]
Old 01-04-2009, 09:28 PM
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Default RE: which country had the best fighter planes of WWII

ORIGINAL: skull1971

When we shoot, the Germans duck.
When the Germans shoot, we duck.
When the Americans shoot, we all duck.

Hehehehehe, I like that!!

And everyone ducks when people from Texas start shooting. [sm=lol.gif]
Hey I've never shot anyone,,,,, that didn't need shooting. [>:]

I think we all need to be shot for voting this $#@! New Moron about to take office. JMHO Naw, you don't ever need to shoot me... just give me a good arse woopin, brush me off when your done and send me home. If you shoot me I won't be a friend later, if you kick my arse then I just might be your best friend later on.
Old 01-04-2009, 09:35 PM
  #458  
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Default RE: which country had the best fighter planes of WWII

A few old AAF ballads from "The Pineapple Air Force" by John Lambert:

Don't give me a Peter Four O,
A hell of an airplane, I know.
A ground loopin' *******,
You're sure to get plastered,
Don't give me a Peter Four O.

Don't give me a P-39,
With an engine that's mounted behind.
It will tumble and roll,
And dig a big hole,
Don't give me a P-39.

Don't give me an old Thunderbolt,
It gave many a pilot a jolt.
It looks like a jug,
and it flies like a tug,
Don't give me an old Thunderbolt.

Don't give me a P-61,
For flying at night is not fun.
They say it's a lark,
But I'm scared of the dark,
Don't give me a P-61.

Don't give me a P-38,
With props that counter rotate.
They'll loop, roll and spin,
But they'll soon auger in.
Don't give me a P-38.

And wouldn't ya know it:

She was a honey, she was the best,
That night I put her to the test.
She looked so sweet, so pretty, so trim,
The night was dark, the moon was dim.

I rolled her over, then on her side,
Then on her back I also tried.
She was just one high thrill, the best in the land,
That P-51 of the Fighter Command.
Old 01-04-2009, 09:38 PM
  #459  
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Default RE: which country had the best fighter planes of WWII


ORIGINAL: LuftwaffeOberst

I think we all need to be shot for voting this $#@! New Moron about to take office.
Hey I didn't vote for stupid! I liked the old guy that had been on the job longer than 90 days. Plus Sara looked good in a pair of tight jeans, (not only a Texas thing)
Old 01-04-2009, 09:41 PM
  #460  
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Default RE: which country had the best fighter planes of WWII


ORIGINAL: Evil_Merlin
This isn't about who had the better pilots, who could field the most aircraft, is simply about the best fighter planes.

Put two identical pilots in the Ta 152H and the P-51D and who would win in a dog fight?
Put two identical pilots in the Fw 190A and the P-47D and who would win in a dog fight?
Put two identical pilots in the P-40 and the Zero and who would win in a dog fight?
Put two identical pilots in the Bf 109G and the La-5 and who would win in a dog fight?
Evil_Merlin,
I agree with the comment discounting pilots in the equation. I do not agree with the direction of the other statements. It is not only about one on one dog fighting. Below is the criteria as mentioned in the post that started the thread. It is the criteria that I am going by when presenting my case. Fielding planes counts. The Ta 152H does not need to be in the mix because of it. Please see the other comments that I made in post #411.

ORIGINAL: Ram-bro
Consider , speed, firepower, tactics, innovation, manuverability and availability.
Old 01-04-2009, 09:43 PM
  #461  
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Default RE: which country had the best fighter planes of WWII

ORIGINAL: Veltro

A few old AAF ballads from "The Pineapple Air Force" by John Lambert:

Don't give me a Peter Four O,
A hell of an airplane, I know.
A ground loopin' *******,
You're sure to get plastered,
Don't give me a Peter Four O.

Don't give me a P-39,
With an engine that's mounted behind.
It will tumble and roll,
And dig a big hole,
Don't give me a P-39.

Don't give me an old Thunderbolt,
It gave many a pilot a jolt.
It looks like a jug,
and it flies like a tug,
Don't give me an old Thunderbolt.

Don't give me a P-61,
For flying at night is not fun.
They say it's a lark,
But I'm scared of the dark,
Don't give me a P-61.

Don't give me a P-38,
With props that counter rotate.
They'll loop, roll and spin,
But they'll soon auger in.
Don't give me a P-38.

And wouldn't ya know it:

She was a honey, she was the best,
That night I put her to the test.
She looked so sweet, so pretty, so trim,
The night was dark, the moon was dim.

I rolled her over, then on her side,
Then on her back I also tried.
She was just one high thrill, the best in the land,
That P-51 of the Fighter Command.

That doesn't mean nothin... Germany had a song about the Stuka, and that plane as we all know wasn't the best, however it was deadly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8TqL_mDUK8 < Translation is included.
Old 01-04-2009, 09:43 PM
  #462  
skull1971
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Default RE: which country had the best fighter planes of WWII


ORIGINAL: Veltro

A few old AAF ballads from "The Pineapple Air Force" by John Lambert:

Don't give me a Peter Four O,
A hell of an airplane, I know.
A ground loopin' *******,
You're sure to get plastered,
Don't give me a Peter Four O.

Don't give me a P-39,
With an engine that's mounted behind.
It will tumble and roll,
And dig a big hole,
Don't give me a P-39.

Don't give me an old Thunderbolt,
It gave many a pilot a jolt.
It looks like a jug,
and it flies like a tug,
Don't give me an old Thunderbolt.

Don't give me a P-61,
For flying at night is not fun.
They say it's a lark,
But I'm scared of the dark,
Don't give me a P-61.

Don't give me a P-38,
With props that counter rotate.
They'll loop, roll and spin,
But they'll soon auger in.
Don't give me a P-38.

And wouldn't ya know it:

She was a honey, she was the best,
That night I put her to the test.
She looked so sweet, so pretty, so trim,
The night was dark, the moon was dim.

I rolled her over, then on her side,
Then on her back I also tried.
She was just one high thrill, the best in the land,
That P-51 of the Fighter Command.

Sure go ahead and roll her, with the fuse tank full, find out what'll happen. I'll watch from far away, and don't worry I'll find you by following the smoke. Or better yet, sit at the end of the runway, and firewall it to take off,, bet the airspeed needle never moved before your all twisted in.
Old 01-04-2009, 09:46 PM
  #463  
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Default RE: which country had the best fighter planes of WWII


ORIGINAL: skull1971


ORIGINAL: LuftwaffeOberst

I think we all need to be shot for voting this $#@! New Moron about to take office.
Hey I didn't vote for stupid! I liked the old guy that had been on the job longer than 90 days. Plus Sara looked good in a pair of tight jeans, (not only a Texas thing)
I hear ya, Sara is hot... and she has experience, I like a gal who has experience.
Old 01-04-2009, 09:48 PM
  #464  
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Default RE: which country had the best fighter planes of WWII

ORIGINAL: deatonbt


ORIGINAL: Evil_Merlin
This isn't about who had the better pilots, who could field the most aircraft, is simply about the best fighter planes.

Put two identical pilots in the Ta 152H and the P-51D and who would win in a dog fight?
Put two identical pilots in the Fw 190A and the P-47D and who would win in a dog fight?
Put two identical pilots in the P-40 and the Zero and who would win in a dog fight?
Put two identical pilots in the Bf 109G and the La-5 and who would win in a dog fight?
Evil_Merlin,
I agree with the comment discounting pilots in the equation. I do not agree with the direction of the other statements. It is not only about one on one dog fighting. Below is the criteria as mentioned in the post that started the thread. It is the criteria that I am going by when presenting my case. Fielding planes counts. The Ta 152H does not need to be in the mix because of it. Please see the other comments that I made in post #411.

ORIGINAL: Ram-bro
Consider , speed, firepower, tactics, innovation, manuverability and availability.

BUT we did do that, we took it down to just plane vs. plane. Read back and you'll see, it's in the first 2 or 3 pages. Speed, firepower, manuverability, and availability are set in the pages of history, you can't change or speculate those items. So Tactics and innovation are left,, well, we know what history says, BUT there are to many "What If's" to make anything more than a judgment call. So it comes down to plane vs. plane, with the same pilot.
Old 01-04-2009, 09:58 PM
  #465  
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Default RE: which country had the best fighter planes of WWII

skull, the mosquito was built in 11-teen different versions, one of which was a fighter (4 machine guns+4 cannons= a whole lot of whoop a**) still the best fighter, still my highly biased opinion...
Old 01-04-2009, 10:05 PM
  #466  
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Default RE: which country had the best fighter planes of WWII

ORIGINAL: skull1971
... Or better yet, sit at the end of the runway, and firewall it to take off,, bet the airspeed needle never moved before your all twisted in.
We had someone do that with a real P-51 here about a year ago. That's exactly what happened. It was actually a go around, but it was still fatal. []
Old 01-04-2009, 10:07 PM
  #467  
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Default RE: which country had the best fighter planes of WWII

To hold it to the letter of the law,,

1. Speed, Me-262 Germany
2. Firepower, again Germany, 30mm cannon. ( only"Gun" bigger 75mm smooth bore B-25)
3. Tactics, HISTORY shows, The Allies
4. Innovation, Germany, Me-262, Me-163. Britt's a CLOSE second for the Meteor.
5. Manuverability, well this is a toss up, I'd say, EVEN
6. Availability, Allies, hands down. More over the U.S.

Let's see, out of 6, 3 and a tie for Germany, and 2 and a tie for the Allies. Plus I NEVER gave a thought about the Russian's which would make it a tie with the U.S. on item #6.
Old 01-04-2009, 10:10 PM
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Default RE: which country had the best fighter planes of WWII


ORIGINAL: Veltro

ORIGINAL: skull1971
... Or better yet, sit at the end of the runway, and firewall it to take off,, bet the airspeed needle never moved before your all twisted in.
We had someone do that with a real P-51 here about a year ago. That's exactly what happened. It was actually a go around, but it was still fatal. []

WOW, so sorry to hear that,, even a year later, it's still sad news. Planes can be rebuilt, pilots can't. [sm=angel_smile.gif]
Old 01-04-2009, 10:18 PM
  #469  
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Default RE: which country had the best fighter planes of WWII

ORIGINAL: vegas mossie

skull, the mosquito was built in 11-teen different versions, one of which was a fighter (4 machine guns+4 cannons= a whole lot of whoop a**) still the best fighter, still my highly biased opinion...
Oh don't get me wrong, the Mosquito, is a fantastic aircraft, it did things NO OTHER plane could have. (Norway? Prison break) Plus IMO the only thing better than one Merlin purring along, it two of them!!!!
I have never gotten to see a Mosquito, in person, I hope someday I will.
Old 01-04-2009, 10:21 PM
  #470  
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Default RE: which country had the best fighter planes of WWII


ORIGINAL: vegas mossie

skull, the mosquito was built in 11-teen different versions, one of which was a fighter (4 machine guns+4 cannons= a whole lot of whoop a**) still the best fighter, still my highly biased opinion...

Books to read... then you will know why I say Germans had the best with out bias.

P-51 Mustang vs Fw 190: Europe 1943-45 http://www.tesco.com/books/product.aspx?R=9781846031892

The P-38 was an excellent craft but it appears that the Fw 190 pilots if aggressive could tackle the Lighting without problem. I have some real ugly gun-cam footage of P-38's being torn to ribbons under the 2cm and 3cm M shells.

The Mossie was a very good aircraft, but I think the Beufighter's in general was a better fighter. I could be wrong, I'll have to look it up.

Most of the Mossie roles were done at night from what little I know.
Old 01-04-2009, 10:23 PM
  #471  
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Default RE: which country had the best fighter planes of WWII

Skull, firepower doesnt mean the biggest gun. A 30mm cannon is only putting out so much lead as compared to 6 or 8 50 cals and a 20 mm cannon.
Old 01-04-2009, 10:28 PM
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Default RE: which country had the best fighter planes of WWII

Have had a bit of a scan through this thread but I am not going to read all of it or get into any arguments with all you (very) knowlagable aircraft affectionates. I will just chuck in my two cents worth by saying I voted for the British as they had the right machines at the right time to slow down the then unstopable Luftwaffe from allowing a fully blown water bourne invasion of the UK and so cutting off the rest of Europe. Even though I am talking about the most basic of Spitfires and Hurricanes they did the job they were designed to do. Knock E/A out of the sky and a moments notice. The later marques of these and the Mosquito nail it for me, and i'm sure you all know that the P51 was made as a result of a british specification/contract.

Brad
Old 01-04-2009, 10:34 PM
  #473  
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Default RE: which country had the best fighter planes of WWII

ORIGINAL: skull1971

To hold it to the letter of the law,,

1. Speed, Me-262 Germany
2. Firepower, again Germany, 30mm cannon. ( only"Gun" bigger 75mm smooth bore B-25)
3. Tactics, HISTORY shows, The Allies
4. Innovation, Germany, Me-262, Me-163. Britt's a CLOSE second for the Meteor.
5. Manuverability, well this is a toss up, I'd say, EVEN
6. Availability, Allies, hands down. More over the U.S.

Let's see, out of 6, 3 and a tie for Germany, and 2 and a tie for the Allies. Plus I NEVER gave a thought about the Russian's which would make it a tie with the U.S. on item #6.

Russian WWII aircraft had many flaws... one bullet in the radiator of a Yak and down she went. The Russian planes were very heavy, and some used wood or Bakelite which would become brittle at high altittudes.

Oleg (The founder or IL2 Simulator Game) and I... have gone toe to toe on this subject. He had the Russian planes almost unbeatable and the Spit terrible... and the P-51 was a nightmare!

The Germans ate the Russian planes for dinner... from what I've studied. It was after the war when they captured the German aircraft that they started to get better with thier aircraft design.

Heck, they stole the B-29... reversed engineered it and rebuilt it as there own because all thier bombers sucked.
Old 01-04-2009, 10:50 PM
  #474  
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Default RE: which country had the best fighter planes of WWII


ORIGINAL: Brad330l

Have had a bit of a scan through this thread but I am not going to read all of it or get into any arguments with all you (very) knowlagable aircraft affectionates. I will just chuck in my two cents worth by saying I voted for the British as they had the right machines at the right time to slow down the then unstopable Luftwaffe from allowing a fully blown water bourne invasion of the UK and so cutting off the rest of Europe. Even though I am talking about the most basic of Spitfires and Hurricanes they did the job they were designed to do. Knock E/A out of the sky and a moments notice. The later marques of these and the Mosquito nail it for me, and i'm sure you all know that the P51 was made as a result of a british specification/contract.

Brad

Germany lost the "Battle of Britain" because of Germany, not because of the will of the British... Spitfire or Hurricane. Anyone who gets angry looses his head and usually gets killed, or looses the battle.

Hitler got angry and told " Fat Ball" to bomb London. Then as we all know Hitler lost interest in invading England and had his sights in Russia. It's written everywhere that England was on its knees buy the time "Fat Ball" and Hitler called everything off.

IF - Hitler and "Fat Ball" kept hitting radar and airfields like he did in the begining... the outcome of WWII would have been different. JMHO Germany had the best strategic blunders as well, best fighters.

As I recall, England kept begging the United States to get involved in the war even using trickery, like they did in WWI with the Lusitainia.
Old 01-04-2009, 11:06 PM
  #475  
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Default RE: which country had the best fighter planes of WWII

Strategic wasn't even in the German language or mindset.The Germans/Nazis were to short sited no matter how you look at it. The German people were stupid for allowing the Nazi's to take over. Purely selfish and cowardly they were.War was an excuse to stay in power and to keep blaming whomever the Nazis, considered inferior. The Germans lost the war in the 30s not at the Battle of Britain , not in 1945. It was lost when the German peple lost their nerve and their moral fortitude. Sometimes I wonder if your sorry that Germany lost the war.....

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