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  1. #126
    RickVB's Avatar
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    RE: Re: gear drawings

    Mike can verify the truth by listing the drawing pages for us... (<please>)...
    Rick Vera-Burgos
    Novi, Michigan

  2. #127

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    RE: Re: gear drawings

    ORIGINAL: RickVB

    Mike can verify the truth by listing the drawing pages for us... (<please>)...
    lol, man you guys wont give up!
    he has them, he has the .cad files, all the stuff, its there
    Todd
    Meister, Aero Acc., Sierra, Glennis, Get Stencils, Shinden, Warbird Colors, Fliteskin, VicRC, Holman, Bates customer

  3. #128
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    RE: Re: gear drawings

    Rick,

    There are SIX sheets in the plan set.

    Sheet 1 - Fuselage
    Sheet 2 - Bulkheads & Ribs
    Sheet 3 - Bulkheads & Spars
    Sheet 4 - Stab & Fuse Jig
    Sheet 5 - Wing
    Sheet 6 - Landing Gear

    There are additional sheet that show some additional detail and three-views but they are not included with the original plan set.

    We hope to have these ready to sell in the next few weeks. We are currently trying to get all our ducks in a row to sell his stuff. Will keep you posted.

    Thanks,
    Mike

    ORIGINAL: RickVB

    OK, Mike, since I've done my usual procrastination routine and not even gotten the letter out to Doss... [sm=disappointed.gif]

    Since you are currently negotiating with Doss, I assume I would be wasting my time trying to contact him. But if you are actually talking to him (and he's not just a rumor ), and you have a set of the plans from him, you must be able to answer the burning questions that have been haunting this thread for over a year... so PLEASE, tell us: How many drawings constitute a set, and what are they specifically? Pretty PLEASE???
    Mike Chilson
    RCSCALEBUILDER.COM Founder
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  4. #129
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    RE: Re: gear drawings

    Jon,

    The reason Doss has not gotten back in touch with anyone about these plans is he was tired of dealing with folks complaining about the prices, and just being argumentative about his model so he yanked them off the market. Doss IS a close and personal friend of myself and one of my partners. It has taken much persuasion to get him to allow us to do this. We actually have the masters and are working out the details with him now on the molds.

    We hope to offer a "short kit" in the near future for both the 1/5 & 1/4 scale models. Will also have a a fiberglass fuselage avalible. As you might expect it takes quite a bit of time to get all the details worked out on this stuff especially since R/C Scale Products is not our full time job.

    So be sure and stay tuned. I will post a vendor announcement here and on my site rcscalebuilder.com once they are ready to sell.

    Thanks,
    Mike







    ORIGINAL: F106A

    Hi everyone,
    I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for the P-51 plans. I've been tracking Doss off and on for years, including contacting his "friends" and people that supposedly can get in contact with him and all it's ever resulted in was one dead end after another. The closest I got was last year when I tried to call him and he had just moved.
    As I said before, I'm sure he knows of this thread either through friends or first hand and he has never contacted anyone or posted anything that I know about. I would think, with all the demand that seems to be out there, he could print copies from his masters very easily and make some bucks in the process if he wanted to.
    I have a complete set that I got from Bob Holman many years ago, just have to decide if I want to build another Mustang.
    BRG,
    Jon
    Mike Chilson
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  5. #130
    F106A's Avatar
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    RE: Re: gear drawings

    Hi Mike,
    I knew something was going on, otherwise he would've been in contact.
    I know when I contacted Doss back in the late 80's, after I saw one of his P-51's fly at a warbird meet, might even have been his, he seemed to be disheartened by questions and comments about the P-51. He felt, and I agree, that it's the most accurate P-51 out there, but it certainly is a "builders" model, this before the f/g fuse and short kit that was sold by Holman. I know one thing that he was really cranked about was modelers comparing his P-51 to Byron's, they'd ask if his was as scale as Byron's!
    The other issue was the gear; it was the first "scale" gear on a P-51 model in that the pivot was in the correct location, i.e. at the leading edge of the wing. I think the gear setup, main and t/w, went for something like $700, which was a lot of money back then. If I remember right, I think he wanted 50%; he'd make the gear and ship it. If you thought the quality was what he described, and I'm sure it was, you send him the balance or return the gear and he'd refund the your money. Of course anyone would be crazy to make a deal like that today.
    I just had too many projects going on at the time and I had built a Mustang for a friend and was "Mustanged" out. In hindsight, I should've bought everything and put it on the shelf for later.
    I'm glad you are getting his things together, I know there is a demand for it.
    Doss doesn't know me from Adam, but tell Hi for me, he was a gentleman when we talked, for over an hour as I remember, and a great modeler and his plans are second to none.
    BRG,
    Jon

  6. #131
    SCALECRAFT's Avatar
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    RE: Re: gear drawings

    Hi All

    The Boeing Company who owns all the North American designs now, has the original drawings available to the general public. For a small charge now.

    I ordered the drawings for the F/A 18 Super Hornet. After 6 months I received a 1" thick envelope with the fuse loftings, cockpit detail, landing gear detail. Even the smallest specific detail was on these sheets. Way more info that a modeler would need.

    Now, this was all before 9/11 attacks, so I'm not sure if thier so generous these days. I'll let you guys know though, I've requested the P-51D drawings and the AT6. This was around 10 months ago. still waiting.

    Steve

  7. #132
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    RE: Re: gear drawings

    ORIGINAL: MikeChilson

    Rick,

    There are SIX sheets in the plan set.

    Sheet 1 - Fuselage
    Sheet 2 - Bulkheads & Ribs
    Sheet 3 - Bulkheads & Spars
    Sheet 4 - Stab & Fuse Jig
    Sheet 5 - Wing
    Sheet 6 - Landing Gear

    There are additional sheet that show some additional detail and three-views but they are not included with the original plan set.
    Mike, will you please read postings #58-63 of this thread, talk to Doss, and then get back to us? What you said above just covers what we already have. I've been wondering about all the other drawings referenced on the first main page...
    Rick Vera-Burgos
    Novi, Michigan

  8. #133
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    RE: Re: gear drawings

    ORIGINAL: RickVB

    Mike, will you please read postings #58-63 of this thread, talk to Doss, and then get back to us? What you said above just covers what we already have. I've been wondering about all the other drawings referenced on the first main page...
    Rick,

    Like I said, as soon as we get everything from Doss and can get it in shape for production I'll post everything that is avalible. Just hang loose.. It may take a couple of months to get everything and get it ready to sell. This isn't our full time job so we have to work it around everything else...

    Thanks,
    Mike
    Mike Chilson
    RCSCALEBUILDER.COM Founder
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  9. #134

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    RE: Re: gear drawings

    Great news Mike!

    I ordered the plans a while ago in germany from the plan service at www.vth.de
    and indeed I only have 6 sheets.. and they are of poor quality.
    I almost can't wait to see the original drawings available again in good shape.. and COMPLETE..

    I'll be watching you!

    Peter

  10. #135

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    RE: Re: gear drawings

    Hello P-51 fans out here!

    Quiet a coincidence to hear about this Steed P-51!

    (Well . . . Peter Pankras set me right on track)

    By reading this whole thread, I became quiet convinced that this is the ultimate scale P-51 out there, but, another thing of course is: how does it fly?

    Like 'a dream', or like the proverbial 'sh*thouse' ?

    (Is that the proper expression?[8D])

    I'd say, that behaviour in flight is of some importance also.[sm=rolleyes.gif]

    Especially if you are going to spend thousands of dollars and hours . . . [&:]

    Thanks!

    jan

  11. #136

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    RE: Re: gear drawings

    Jan,

    The steed Mustang uses the original laminair wing profile as used on the full scale..
    I don't really know how it flies, but can imagine you have your hands full flying this baby..

    And welcome aboard!

    Peter

  12. #137
    RickVB's Avatar
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    RE: Re: gear drawings

    Hey Jon, you said you saw one of Doss' Mustangs back in the 80's; did you see it fly?
    Rick Vera-Burgos
    Novi, Michigan

  13. #138
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    RE: Re: gear drawings

    Jan,

    We are going to pick up one of the models Doss built the last week in September. Hope to have a flight report not long after that. Doss had told me that even though it has a laminar flow airfoil on it it has no real bad tendencies other than it flies like a fairly high wing loaded warbird (you just cannot slow it down too much). Doss had told me a story of how he took one of his P-51's up high and stalled it intentionally he said one of the wings dropped slightly but it otherwise just mushed and started !QUOT!stair stepping!QUOT! down until he added power back.

    Also as an update, we are currently having the plans vectored into CAD format so we can offer a short kit with the plans. Still trying to make arrangements to get the fiberglass parts and other molds setup for production with our glass guy.

    Hope this helps, when we get one of his models I'll give you guys a flight report as soon as we fly it.

    Thanks,
    Mike Chilson
    RCSCALEBUILDER.COM Founder
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  14. #139
    pittsdriver's Avatar
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    RE: Re: gear drawings

    The full scale Mustang has very docile stall characteristics. It does take some altitude to recover but does not have a tendancy to snap if the ball is centered. Spins are not to bad if recovered by the third turn. It is a high speed airfoil but is steady as a rock right up to stall. The model should be the same. I had a Master Scale Mustang years ago and it flew great although you had to keep the speed up a bit on final. Don
    Waco Brother #162

  15. #140

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    RE: Re: gear drawings

    Does anyone here know anything more about the flying characteristics of a scale warbird like the p51 with a laminair flow airfoil?
    I would like to know more about using this airfoil on a scale p51.
    Also.. do you think it's wise to maybe also use the flaps on takeoff with the steed mustang??

    Peter

  16. #141
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    RE: Re: gear drawings

    Peter, My Master Scale 51 had a scale airfoil and it flew just fine. I never used flaps for take-off but always full flap for landing. Just like almost any warbird come down final with a little power keeping the speed up a bit. When you reach the threshhold ease off the power and flare. Once power is off the plane will slow very quickly. This is the same way you fly the full scale 51. Don
    Waco Brother #162

  17. #142

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    RE: Re: gear drawings

    I've been sticking my nose into laminar flow airoils and studied the wingplan of the steed mustang.
    Am I correct if I say that the wing doesn't have any tip washout??
    I know it makes an rc plane more stable.. but does this also count for the laminar flow airfoil.
    How bad would it be not to have tip washout on a scale p51 that uses the laminar airfoil??

    Peter

  18. #143
    GSNut's Avatar
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    RE: Re: gear drawings

    ORIGINAL: Peter Pankras

    I've been sticking my nose into laminar flow airoils and studied the wingplan of the steed mustang.
    Am I correct if I say that the wing doesn't have any tip washout??
    I know it makes an rc plane more stable.. but does this also count for the laminar flow airfoil.
    How bad would it be not to have tip washout on a scale p51 that uses the laminar airfoil??

    Peter
    Please check the General Notes on the main Fuselage Page...

    The wing is built using the wing jigs (fixtures) and has the washout established by following Doss's instructions as noted there. Although it is not listed as per degrees, it should be enough to the job. Probably around about 2 to 3 or maybe even more, degrees differental to that of the root.

    I Think you can rest easy as Doss Steed did his home work on the 51D !!
    Doug in Denver
    Club Saito #57
    IMAA 345 AMA 17566 EAA 213982

  19. #144

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    RE: Re: gear drawings

    Sorry.. forgot about the wingjig.

    Also I want to note.. I purchased the plans through vth in germany last year, and I must say that the text is very hard to read.. let's say I really got a crappy copy from them for what I consider a high priced plan.. The plan is worth every cent as long as everything was readable..

    I will try to see if I can read through the instructions..

    Has anyone other then Doss ever build this thing and some sort of building report online? I guess not.. looked everywhere..

    cheers

    Peter

  20. #145

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    RE: Re: gear drawings

    Maybe a dumb question.. but did the full size p51 have tip washout?

    Peter

  21. #146
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    RE: Re: gear drawings

    You're making me feel REAL guilty for sitting on two of these kits... [sm=redface.gif]
    Rick Vera-Burgos
    Novi, Michigan

  22. #147
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    RE: Re: gear drawings

    ORIGINAL: RickVB

    You're making me feel REAL guilty......
    No need....soon, everyone will be able to buy a full set of plans and a fiberglass fuse. I might even buy some plans and a fuse!
    eeeexcelent...
    Bob Convery

  23. #148
    GSNut's Avatar
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    RE: Re: gear drawings

    ORIGINAL: Peter Pankras

    Maybe a dumb question.. but did the full size p51 have tip washout?

    Peter

    That maybe a bone of contention..although North American's Drawing NA-62-1494 of Dec. 1962
    shows three wing cross sections with the wing reference lines all parallel to the fuselage reference plane. (refering to section I - I as being closest to the wing tip)

    Therefore, If I were to accept this as the only authentic source of information "Then there is no washout involved with the NA P51-D. However there just might be other drawings out there that may show differences and or corrections from this one drawing.

    This drawing is in the Aero Publishers Famous Aircraft Series and has a Library of Congress Card Nr. 63-14945 and is Copyright to Leonard Morgan - 1963

    Something to think about? Would the taper wing of the Mustang have a less force effect due to the smaller tip area involved thereby reducing somewhat the tip stalling tendencies so commonly found in stright constaint chord wings? I am not a design engineer and do not know for sure, although I suspect that it does but have no facts to prove that it does.

    While surfin the web and looking at the P-51Ds..check out:

    http://www.thundermustang.com 3/4 Size with a V12 falconer engine..!!! will be at the Reno Air races next weekend. Would expect the Thunder Mustang to blow the comp. away, will have to watch and see! With a 24 ft. wing span that would make my version of the Steed 51D a 1/3 size.

    http://www.mustangsmustangs.com lots of information and other including a P-51 BB

    http://www.flightheritage.com lot more photos in the archive...

    Back to You Peter or ????
    Doug in Denver
    Club Saito #57
    IMAA 345 AMA 17566 EAA 213982

  24. #149
    GSNut's Avatar
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    RE: Re: gear drawings



    I know this is not a 51D but if you love Scale craftmanship check this out.

    http://www.sherline.com/jmfPar02.htm
    Doug in Denver
    Club Saito #57
    IMAA 345 AMA 17566 EAA 213982

  25. #150
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    RE: Re: Doss Steed's Mustang...


    And in the beginning-----------

    As I build slooooww, some of you maybe done before me.. But it's a start..

    Got the materials to build the fuselage jig from H. Depot the other day and will build that next week..if the weather holds. Gotta clean up the workshop and move a bunch of stuff out so as to have the room to build this one.. The Pitts is to be ready in a couple of weeks after the tests on gear, engine and incidences and etc.

    As this is a scratch built and am in no hurry will take my time this winter. (Yeah I'm retired so can use all the time I need.) The fuse templates are cut and sanded to the outer dimension and checked as to the primary plotting. Am glad to say it's dead on so far.

    So here's a pic of what is done so far...will do the rib templates in the near future.

    To see the Picture Please see My Gallery Page 1, click on photo for a larger size......it's the only way I could get to load from aol, duhh[&o] what's wid dat.
    Doug in Denver
    Club Saito #57
    IMAA 345 AMA 17566 EAA 213982


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