MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence
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RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence
Mark,
I have been using Sullivan SkyWriters for several years. I have four planes with the system installed. The only maintenence is to clean the inlet line screens at least once a year and filter your smoke oil.
Good luck,
I have been using Sullivan SkyWriters for several years. I have four planes with the system installed. The only maintenence is to clean the inlet line screens at least once a year and filter your smoke oil.
Good luck,
#804
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RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence
Hello Mic,
It was great meeting you at the LMA's..... Scott and I loved your plane it was awesome and sounded great!!! Here are a few pictures of you last week.
Greg
It was great meeting you at the LMA's..... Scott and I loved your plane it was awesome and sounded great!!! Here are a few pictures of you last week.
Greg
#805
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RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence
I am in the $$aving $$tage to get a Moki 215 for a C-Arf Gee Bee I have. After reading through the pulse tube clogging and so forth I have a question for the experts in the know.. The pulse piston that generates the diaphragm pulse.. How many pulses per engine revolution are generated? If it is less than 5 could the lean/rich cylinder variation also be from the filling and depletion of the pump circuit due to lack of consistant fuel pump pulse for each cylinder prior to each induction?
Rick
Rick
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RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence
Rick,
Not entirely sure how many lobes are on the cam that drives the air pump, but common sense assumes there are five. However, you know what they say about "ass u me". The clogging issue is not as severe a problem as one might believe from the conversation, but cleanliness is essential.
Chatting with some of our cousins accross the pond, the largest inefficiency in the engine design seems to be fuel distribution within the crankcase. People have been introducing "turbulators" in between the carb and the crankcase to create a vortex in the air/fuel mixture thereby providing more even distribution among the cylinders; at least thats the theory. Also, the use of fuel pumps eliminates the need for the air pump pulse to the carb. Both modifications appear to offer significantly improved performance. I am going to order both as soon as they are available.
My biggest problem is heat dissipation. The target is to keep the hottest cylinder below 230 F. There is sometimes a rather large temperature spread (50 to 70 degrees) between the hottest (top) and coolest cylinders. In fact, the coolest cylinder (#3 clockwise from the cockpit) often times will flood out, if you use 32:1 oil mixture. Many owners have gone to 50:1 mixtures. I'm hoping that a fuel pump and turbulator with be a major improvment. By the way, I'm flying at 4300' and this time of year the density altitude can approach 9000', so cooling can be a real challenge.
While you're saving your hard earned cash, I would seriously consider holding out for a 250, rather then a 215. It weighs less and has more power. I have a friend with a 215 and the perfornace difference is noticable.
Good luck,
Not entirely sure how many lobes are on the cam that drives the air pump, but common sense assumes there are five. However, you know what they say about "ass u me". The clogging issue is not as severe a problem as one might believe from the conversation, but cleanliness is essential.
Chatting with some of our cousins accross the pond, the largest inefficiency in the engine design seems to be fuel distribution within the crankcase. People have been introducing "turbulators" in between the carb and the crankcase to create a vortex in the air/fuel mixture thereby providing more even distribution among the cylinders; at least thats the theory. Also, the use of fuel pumps eliminates the need for the air pump pulse to the carb. Both modifications appear to offer significantly improved performance. I am going to order both as soon as they are available.
My biggest problem is heat dissipation. The target is to keep the hottest cylinder below 230 F. There is sometimes a rather large temperature spread (50 to 70 degrees) between the hottest (top) and coolest cylinders. In fact, the coolest cylinder (#3 clockwise from the cockpit) often times will flood out, if you use 32:1 oil mixture. Many owners have gone to 50:1 mixtures. I'm hoping that a fuel pump and turbulator with be a major improvment. By the way, I'm flying at 4300' and this time of year the density altitude can approach 9000', so cooling can be a real challenge.
While you're saving your hard earned cash, I would seriously consider holding out for a 250, rather then a 215. It weighs less and has more power. I have a friend with a 215 and the perfornace difference is noticable.
Good luck,
#810
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RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence
I had considered the 250 but with the plane only coming in around 36-38 lbs and wanting to stay with a 30-32" prop max diameter I thought the 215 might be the wiser power choice.There are guys flying the C-Arf Gee Bee on Da 100's and getting good performance. The 4 ounces of weight is not an issue for me really. Is the 215 a steel liner motor or is it a NiK/Nicom coated cylinder ? I seem to recall reading somewhere that the 250 used the coated cylinder but did not specify about the 215. IF it is a liner motor that would account for the additional 4 ounces or so of weight..
Rick
Rick
#812
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RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence
ORIGINAL: BobH
Rick there's a 215 for sale on RCU for a substantial savings. Just an FYI.
Rick there's a 215 for sale on RCU for a substantial savings. Just an FYI.
In the last week there have been three 215's one 250 and a 150... Must be the month for Moki's... I am currently working a deal on a NIB 215 right now for a pretty decent price... I am always hesitant on a used motor especially one of this caliber... It is pretty expensive to replace a jug or head if it was abused a little....
RIck
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RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence
I puchased the Moki 150 yesterday on rcu, it will be going in the Tractor 401-B from AMR which is due out in October
I believe there is still a 215 on another sight for sale in the engine section brand new for less than a new 150.
I believe there is still a 215 on another sight for sale in the engine section brand new for less than a new 150.
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RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence
Bill,
Thanks I am looking forward to owning a moki thanks to this forum with its wealth of information. I got the three bladed prop and shipping, Jim was great to deal with.
Thanks I am looking forward to owning a moki thanks to this forum with its wealth of information. I got the three bladed prop and shipping, Jim was great to deal with.
#818
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RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence
The Nikasil in my opinion is the better of the two.. I know Mercury originally used the Chrome in the 2.4 liter 220 laser motors and they had the habit of flaking after a while.. They then went to the Nikasil in Germany for the early 245 and 260hp motors and they were vertually indistructable.You could smear piston all over them and wipe it down with Muriatic acid to dissolve the Aluminum and they were good as new. Now they are using Nicom and it is not as good for sure...
StuartMackay can you also answer about how many pulses are generated per engine revolution?
Thanks for all the info....
Rick
StuartMackay can you also answer about how many pulses are generated per engine revolution?
Thanks for all the info....
Rick
#820
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RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence
ORIGINAL: germrb
Rick,
Want to reconsider a 250?
Rick,
Want to reconsider a 250?
My dealing on the NIB 215 is not going too well.. HE is VERY firm on what he wants for it and it is more than I am willing to give for a "Used" motor in the warrantee department..
The 250 is a very viable option if I could run across one...
Rick
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RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence
ORIGINAL: butlern
Alright, owners....
The first time I ran my 150cc radial it was for the maiden flight (2 weeks ago). Fired right up, excellent idle, crisp transition, great, throaty roar at full throttle with no missing. Ran perfectly. My misstep was that I did not tach the engine before taking the plane out on the runway and having a go (I know, I know). The engine just ran and sounded so perfect that I lost focus and my attention shifted quickly away from the engine and turned fully on the model and whether it would fly well.
Anyway, the flight was a success, engine never missed a beat, and I was running it wide-open for the duration of the 3-4 minute flight.
However, it did seem as though it was losing a bit of power at the end of the 3 minutes. I suspected hot air being ingested into the carb, insufficient engine cooling through the enclosed cowl, or both. So I cut the flight short. Down safe, motor still running (idling) well.
Pulled the cowl and let the engine cool. Decided (only now, of course) that it would be a good idea to tach the engine and see whether the RPMs were appropriate for the 26x16 Bambula. Tried repeatedly but I could not get it to fire again.
Exhausted from the stress of the maiden, and nervous about the health of the engine, I just put it away for a while. Well yesterday I had a friend over so we tried to get her fired again (with tach in hand). Cowl off this time.
Choked, full throttle, ignition on... she belched after about 7 flips. Throttle to idle, choke off, flipped 5-6 times and she started purring again. Warmed it for ~1.5 minutes and then ran through various throttle settings, and still, just like day-one, crisp transition, no missing at full-throttle, excellent idle.
Now my issue (perhaps) is that I am only getting ~4600 RPM with the 26x16 prop. This value derived after leaning to max RPM (~4750) and then I richened the high needle back to 4600. Since it's starting and transitioning OK, I never touched the low needle. The end result is that the high needle (and the RPM) are just as they were when I ran it the first day (The needle for sure, the RPM's is only a guess).
I didn't have a suitable socket to check the plugs, but I'm picking one up tonight. Based on temps, all cylinders were equally warm after the last run in my backyard, and it never sounded like it was missing, so I believe all cylinders are firing. All gland nuts on both the intake and exhaust side are snug, too. Pulse-port line is free of grease, too.
Should I be getting more RPM's out of this motor at this point? I've only run it for about 15-20 minutes total. I am using 91 octane and 40:1 Stihl HP Ultra full synthetic. After I check the plugs, I might consider using a bit more (32:1) oil, assuming the lower plugs are not fouled.
Will check the tappet clearance tonight, too.
Aside from switching to Amsoil (for you, Scott!), does all of this sound OK or am I missing a warning sign? Just keep running her, or should I stop right now and check all the tappet clearances? Seems like that might be a reasonable thing to do no matter how little time I have put on the engine.
Thanks, and sorry for the rambling post!
Noah
Alright, owners....
The first time I ran my 150cc radial it was for the maiden flight (2 weeks ago). Fired right up, excellent idle, crisp transition, great, throaty roar at full throttle with no missing. Ran perfectly. My misstep was that I did not tach the engine before taking the plane out on the runway and having a go (I know, I know). The engine just ran and sounded so perfect that I lost focus and my attention shifted quickly away from the engine and turned fully on the model and whether it would fly well.
Anyway, the flight was a success, engine never missed a beat, and I was running it wide-open for the duration of the 3-4 minute flight.
However, it did seem as though it was losing a bit of power at the end of the 3 minutes. I suspected hot air being ingested into the carb, insufficient engine cooling through the enclosed cowl, or both. So I cut the flight short. Down safe, motor still running (idling) well.
Pulled the cowl and let the engine cool. Decided (only now, of course) that it would be a good idea to tach the engine and see whether the RPMs were appropriate for the 26x16 Bambula. Tried repeatedly but I could not get it to fire again.
Exhausted from the stress of the maiden, and nervous about the health of the engine, I just put it away for a while. Well yesterday I had a friend over so we tried to get her fired again (with tach in hand). Cowl off this time.
Choked, full throttle, ignition on... she belched after about 7 flips. Throttle to idle, choke off, flipped 5-6 times and she started purring again. Warmed it for ~1.5 minutes and then ran through various throttle settings, and still, just like day-one, crisp transition, no missing at full-throttle, excellent idle.
Now my issue (perhaps) is that I am only getting ~4600 RPM with the 26x16 prop. This value derived after leaning to max RPM (~4750) and then I richened the high needle back to 4600. Since it's starting and transitioning OK, I never touched the low needle. The end result is that the high needle (and the RPM) are just as they were when I ran it the first day (The needle for sure, the RPM's is only a guess).
I didn't have a suitable socket to check the plugs, but I'm picking one up tonight. Based on temps, all cylinders were equally warm after the last run in my backyard, and it never sounded like it was missing, so I believe all cylinders are firing. All gland nuts on both the intake and exhaust side are snug, too. Pulse-port line is free of grease, too.
Should I be getting more RPM's out of this motor at this point? I've only run it for about 15-20 minutes total. I am using 91 octane and 40:1 Stihl HP Ultra full synthetic. After I check the plugs, I might consider using a bit more (32:1) oil, assuming the lower plugs are not fouled.
Will check the tappet clearance tonight, too.
Aside from switching to Amsoil (for you, Scott!), does all of this sound OK or am I missing a warning sign? Just keep running her, or should I stop right now and check all the tappet clearances? Seems like that might be a reasonable thing to do no matter how little time I have put on the engine.
Thanks, and sorry for the rambling post!
Noah
Have you solved your problem yet ? If not, I may have a solution. I had exatley the same symptoms as you, and the reason is that the ignition module gets to hot. It is very sensetive to heat from the engine, which occurs sometimes with tight cowlings. If I run my fw190 too long on the ground, the engine slowly dies and will not start again until the ignition module is completly cold.
The same thing also happend in the air.
To be sure, I made a protecting shield between the engine and the module and some extra ventilation around it. The problem is now solved in the air, but not on the ground .
/Straightleg
#822
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RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence
No, still no fire in no. 3 cylinder.
The ignition module is likely not overheating... it's installed in the backside of the firewall, shielded from heat. Moreover, it's not as though the cylinder drops out after the engine warms while running... there is still no evidence of ignition in that cylinder (wet plug, but absolutely no carbon or coloration on the ceramic insulator).
I have tried swapping ignitions with another fellow, no help.
I have increased ignition battery from 4.8 to a 6V 4500mAh pack regulated to 5.95V, no help.
I have prevented the carburator from ingesting hot air.
I have check compression and valve lash, both fine, no stuck valve.
I have swapped plugs, and even purchased all new plugs, no help.
I have even tried to pressurize the fuel tank (to rule out bad pressure-pulse generator), no help.
I have confirmed resistance across the plug cap (internal spring to outer surface of cap) is 1.2kOhms.
I'm at a loss...
Last thing to try is a turbulator. Maybe the mixture to that cylinder is so rich that the plug will not fire under pressure with so much excess fuel.
After that I send it in for professional evaluation. I have been in touch with both Mike Dooley at TBM and Goetz Volgesang at Vogelsang-Aeroscale (both here in USA). TMB didn't seem too enthusiastic about solving the problem, but Goetz immediately picked up the phone and called me to discuss the matter. He has agreed top send me one of his own turbulators for the 150... they are not in stock yet here in the USA. He said if it solves the problem, pay for it, if it offers no help, send it back, no charge. I really appreciated his interest and willingess to help. I should say that I originally purhcased this motor from the old USA distributor, RC Showcase, in February 2009... which is when the motor was built and tested in the factory. RC Showcase was bought-out by TBM shortly after.
The last thing I should say is this: when I received the motor, the box appeared to be dropped during shipping, because the plywood mount at the bottom of the box was cracked and the mounting bolts were starting to pull out of this wood. But the motor was still in place, the motor mount was not bent, and the perimeter of the motor was not touching or rubbing on anything, so I never called to complain about this to RC showcase.
So, I guess that last question I have is whether it is possible that a "shock" from being dropped can damage, dislodge, or alter a coil mounted within the engine/motor mount housing (I'm told that this is where the coils reside)? I wish I had an exploded view diagram of the engine so I felt more comfortable taking it apart to check on that kind of stuff. Like I said, I've been "told" a lot about these motors, but without documentation describing how the ignition system really works, anybody's guess is as good as mine.
-Frustrated in Iowa
The ignition module is likely not overheating... it's installed in the backside of the firewall, shielded from heat. Moreover, it's not as though the cylinder drops out after the engine warms while running... there is still no evidence of ignition in that cylinder (wet plug, but absolutely no carbon or coloration on the ceramic insulator).
I have tried swapping ignitions with another fellow, no help.
I have increased ignition battery from 4.8 to a 6V 4500mAh pack regulated to 5.95V, no help.
I have prevented the carburator from ingesting hot air.
I have check compression and valve lash, both fine, no stuck valve.
I have swapped plugs, and even purchased all new plugs, no help.
I have even tried to pressurize the fuel tank (to rule out bad pressure-pulse generator), no help.
I have confirmed resistance across the plug cap (internal spring to outer surface of cap) is 1.2kOhms.
I'm at a loss...
Last thing to try is a turbulator. Maybe the mixture to that cylinder is so rich that the plug will not fire under pressure with so much excess fuel.
After that I send it in for professional evaluation. I have been in touch with both Mike Dooley at TBM and Goetz Volgesang at Vogelsang-Aeroscale (both here in USA). TMB didn't seem too enthusiastic about solving the problem, but Goetz immediately picked up the phone and called me to discuss the matter. He has agreed top send me one of his own turbulators for the 150... they are not in stock yet here in the USA. He said if it solves the problem, pay for it, if it offers no help, send it back, no charge. I really appreciated his interest and willingess to help. I should say that I originally purhcased this motor from the old USA distributor, RC Showcase, in February 2009... which is when the motor was built and tested in the factory. RC Showcase was bought-out by TBM shortly after.
The last thing I should say is this: when I received the motor, the box appeared to be dropped during shipping, because the plywood mount at the bottom of the box was cracked and the mounting bolts were starting to pull out of this wood. But the motor was still in place, the motor mount was not bent, and the perimeter of the motor was not touching or rubbing on anything, so I never called to complain about this to RC showcase.
So, I guess that last question I have is whether it is possible that a "shock" from being dropped can damage, dislodge, or alter a coil mounted within the engine/motor mount housing (I'm told that this is where the coils reside)? I wish I had an exploded view diagram of the engine so I felt more comfortable taking it apart to check on that kind of stuff. Like I said, I've been "told" a lot about these motors, but without documentation describing how the ignition system really works, anybody's guess is as good as mine.
-Frustrated in Iowa
#823
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RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence
Dear Frustrated in Iowa, Hi Noah, I talked to Jim last night. He is at Oshkosh right now with his 195. We discussed your troubles, wondering if you had found success yet. I am so glad that Goetz wants to help you for real. My 150's wooden(pith,not wood) shipping base was broken also with no damage to the engine. I hope (cross my fingers) the turbulator works, but if not, let that German fix it. I look forward to seeing that stunning airplane of yours flying with a perfectly running 150.. I am bummed that I could not solve anything for you. -Tom
#824
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RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence
Thanks, Tom.
I'm still clinging to the allusion that I can avoid paying $100 USD (~$50 each way) to send it to TBM for them to spend several hours (at a shop rate of that is likely $40-50/hour) to tell me the problem was simple a matter (that I should have been able to solve on my own).
It just sucks to have spent $3300 with a company that closed its doors 3 week later, and now have the new company tell me that if I want my $3300, 10lb paperweight professionally evaluated, this will require that I pay all shipping and labor charges (and MAYBE the factory will cover parts), when this piece of s%# motor has NEVER run properly.
Now, of course, none of what I've written is really fair (I had it in my possession for >1 year before I tried to run it), and I don't intend any ill will toward Mike Dooley (who's just operating under his employer's policies), but I'm just so VERY disappointed and frustrated, and I honestly feel like a fool for ever having considered this motor for my Avenger. It's clearly too much (technically) for someone with my limited skills and brainpower to own and maintain.
I'm still clinging to the allusion that I can avoid paying $100 USD (~$50 each way) to send it to TBM for them to spend several hours (at a shop rate of that is likely $40-50/hour) to tell me the problem was simple a matter (that I should have been able to solve on my own).
It just sucks to have spent $3300 with a company that closed its doors 3 week later, and now have the new company tell me that if I want my $3300, 10lb paperweight professionally evaluated, this will require that I pay all shipping and labor charges (and MAYBE the factory will cover parts), when this piece of s%# motor has NEVER run properly.
Now, of course, none of what I've written is really fair (I had it in my possession for >1 year before I tried to run it), and I don't intend any ill will toward Mike Dooley (who's just operating under his employer's policies), but I'm just so VERY disappointed and frustrated, and I honestly feel like a fool for ever having considered this motor for my Avenger. It's clearly too much (technically) for someone with my limited skills and brainpower to own and maintain.
#825
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RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence
Noah,
Ok, I see []
If I were you, I had done one of two things, eighter sell it with the defects or send it directly back to the factory. They will fix it in no time.
A friend here in Norway sent a 215 to the Moki factory for overhaul. The engine was shipped,completly overhauled and returned to the owner in one week !
Best wishes,
/Straightleg
Ok, I see []
If I were you, I had done one of two things, eighter sell it with the defects or send it directly back to the factory. They will fix it in no time.
A friend here in Norway sent a 215 to the Moki factory for overhaul. The engine was shipped,completly overhauled and returned to the owner in one week !
Best wishes,
/Straightleg