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  1. #76

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    RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

    Great idea Noah. I never though about making the choke arm work vertically rather than liner push pull. I guess I was stuck thinking inside the box. Mitch

  2. #77

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    RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

    During our many years of testing, higher octane fuel such as 103, 110LL etc etc will actually decrease a 2 or 4 stroke model airplane engines performance unless you can advance the ignition timing to compensate for the lower volatility of the higher octane fuel.
    On any of the RCS radial engines especially, this is simply not possible.
    ZDZ and other 2 stroke engines allow for a very small window of adjustment to allow the hall sensor to be advanced, but are then limited by the built in advance curve of the ignition system. Overall it is just a waste of time and money unless you simply cannot stand the smell or regular pump grade gasoline.
    The thinnest synthetic oil mix ratio I would dare to use in any of the RCS radials would be 40:1, and only after a significant amount of run time with the suggested factory synthetic oil mix ratio of 30:1. The engine must be baffled properly if in a cowled installation, with excellent air extraction as provided by cowl flaps or spoilers and  the carb must have a way to be supplied with cool air.
    Hope this helps....
     
    Regards
    Mike
    Troy Built Models

  3. #78

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    RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

    Mike,
    Thanks, spoken like a true professional. Always nice to get the input of a guy who works on these things daily. I think we all appreciate you stopping by to check on us and give us your quickie lesson. Please keep in touch with the thread and add when you can.

    See you soon,
    Scott

  4. #79
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    RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

    Hello Guys,

    Funny I stumbled onto this thread last night.

    Today we started a Moki 250 for the first time. WOW !!!!!!! This thing sounds great.
    I did a re-fit of a Comp-ARF Pitts 12 from a DA 150 on Greeves and changed over to the Moki 250.
    I did this for my friend who just had to have this done. He was here when I startd it and is totally happy with the results.
    I had to strip out all the radio gear from the first install to be able to rebalance the plane with this Moki. After hearing it, It is worth it.
    Hope to have many successfull flights. We will hopefully remaiden the plane this weekend. Here is our littler project.


    Edit : Sorry for posting this here ealier. I just noticed what catagory this was under. Not trying to steal a thread. Just looking for and maybe helping with future info. Thanks.
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    Joe "Papa" Stek
    rc4flying

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  5. #80

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    RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

    Hi fellow radial users greetings from across the pond,
    There is lots of good info going in here but also some misinformation. I will attempt to clarify some of the issues for you. Stuart Mackay the UK distributor of this range of engines has more experience than anyone out there, he still uses a 215 from the initial production batch fitted to a 26kg glider tug and regularly tows 15kg+ gliders with this combo, moreover, he assisted with the development of the engine and has direct contact with the engineers at the factory. As you can imagine this engine works hard and has many hundreds of flying hours on it. So let’s get to a few facts, firstly you cannot over rev the engine as the ignition unit has a rev limiter fitted and you will get a high speed misfire if you fit too small a prop. The ignition unit is designed for 4.8 to a maximum of 6volt operation, all the usual rules apply, no 5 cell batteries without a regulator and use good quality cells with a low internal resistance. I personally use the excellent German Powerbox Digi Switch combined with a 2 cell LiPo (You can programme this switch for 5 cell NiMh or 2 cell LiPo use) this regulates the output voltage to 5.5volts. As most of you will be aware a radial does not have the strong +/- pressure pulse within the crankcase required to operate the carb diaphragm pump, hence the need for the piston air pump fitted to the front case housing. Newer engines (not the 400) have a larger ribbed pump housing with festo fitting that screws into the gearcase, on older series engines two capscrews hold on the housing. At the rear of the housing below the air tube is an air bleed hole which for approx the first ten hours will extrude excess grease from the front gear case. This cam ring/gearcase assy is sealed off from the rest of the engine and therefore receives no fuel/oil lubrication, hence it is factory lubed with molybdenum grease that is good for 100+ hours. As has already been said keep the pumphousing/piston assy clean, note that it requires NO lube on reassembly as the piston has a wide Teflon ring and gets the little lube necessary from the gearcase. This pump, pulsing the carb diaphragm will draw fuel and supply good fuel pressure with the tank up to 12 inches behind the carb; it will also work with the tank further away with aircraft that only do light aerobatics. For hardcore aeros on 40 to 60% aircraft typically using the 250 and 400 engines with the fuel tank on the C/G it will often be upwards of two feet from the carb. Here the pump will struggle to draw enough fuel especially in high alpha flight and during prophanging. The answer here is to disconnect the festo pulse tube from the carb and fit an electric fuel pump between the tank and carb that can supply a constant 0.3 Bar pressure. This now runs us neatly on to the subject of fuel, in the early years the factory recommended a 32:1 fuel/oil mix ratio, this has been revised (about four years ago) to 50:1 for all engines. It goes without saying that you should only use a top quality fully synthetic 2 stroke racing oil. With this mix the engines run better, cleaner, put out more power and largely overcome plug oiling issues that often would result in the fire going out in the No 3 cylinder. Another good tip is that after take off move up your idle trim so that the flight idle is between 1000 to 1100rpm, this way the engine is turning fast enough at idle to help prevent plug oiling. Being a four stroke the radial is far more sensitive and slow to react to carb needle adjustments, so go carefully in tiny steps as 1/8th of a turn can often be too much. Adjustments and maintenance: Valve clearance with the engine cold is 0.05mm to 0.08mm and the plug gap is 0.3mm to 0.4mm. The basic carb settings are H needle 1.75 turns out and L needle 1.25 turns out. After every flying session clean and lightly oil the rockers, push rod ends and valve stem, or if you prefer a good squirt with WD40 will clean and lube them for you. The valve stem under the spring is important as without a regular lube carbon build up on the valve stem could eventually cause the valve to stick resulting in the possible loss of a pushrod. Check all external nuts/bolts especially the exhaust collector ring gland nuts as they take ages to bed in due to the Teflon seal. Cooling the engine: Do I need baffles? Let’s start with the ideal set up that does not require baffles. The comp-arf 2.6/3mtr Yak with 150/250 have the ideal cooling arrangement, with a 5” spinner fitted you have a relatively small air inlet area and six huge aluminium louvers to get the hot air out, plus the large pipe tunnel with cooling cut outs at the rear. Most warbirds do not have this luxury unless you open all the cowl gills (the jetjockgb β€œAnni Mo” Corsair thread is a good example of this) and duct the air out, so baffling of some sort is a good idea. Look at the Phil Clark (Fighteraces) Ali/Skyraider build thread and also the Steve Carr Ali/Tigercat thread. If your exit air is minimal then blank off all the holes in the engine mount to help prevent the carb ingesting hot air (you can use very thin ply glued to the mount for this and plastic tubes over the H/L needles). Some one was asking about props for the 150, the best props for a warbird in the 16 to 20 kg bracket are the Menz 2 blade 26x16 at 5400rpm or 3 blade again Menz 24x16 at 5000rpm. For warbirds with a really large cowl a 28x12 Menz at 4750rpm also works. For aerobatic aircraft far and away the best prop is the German Engel 2 blade carbon 28x14, my 150 (in a comp-arf 2.6 Yak) with just over 9 hours flying turns this at 5,500rpm on the ground.
    Best regards,
    Doug

  6. #81

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    RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

    Doug,

    You are the man!!! A lot of great information..... Speaking of props what do you recommend on a 250 3-Bladed???

    Greg

  7. #82

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    RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

    Wow, this information should be put in the form of a manual. This is the type of information I enjoy reading whenever I get a new toy. Thanks to everyone, and let's keep the info coming.[8D]

  8. #83

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    RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

    Hi Greg,
    I have to be honest, we have not tried a 3 Blade on a 250. A friend with a 215 in a lightweight scratch built FW190 uses a 30x12 Menz and this goes well. As the 250 has a fair bit more power I am sure that a Menz 30x14 will put you in the right ballpark. As I am sure you know experimenting with 3 blade props of this size gets very expensive. Just noticed that your post shows a Yak, I presume that your 250/3-Blade question was in regard to a warbird?
    Rgds,
    Doug

  9. #84
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    RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

    Scott,

    Thanks for starting this thread I am considering the 150 for a VA 190. You just can’t beat the sound this motor produces.
    Spitfire Brotherhood #2
    www.wyliewarbirds.com

  10. #85

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    RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

    There's a 150 going on a VA 190 on RCSB. Matt, "Hello 82" is the builder. Mitch

  11. #86

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    RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

    tfarmer96,

    Heres the site Mitch is refering to. Matt is an awesome builder. He does a great job of capturing every detail of the build on his thread. If you haven't joined that site it's worth it just for that build. The more VA 190's with 150's he better. What a great combo that will be to see! Good luck with it and here's that thread:

    http://www.rcscalebuilder.com/forum/...et=last#261939

    thanks for the kind words too,
    Scott

  12. #87
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    RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

    Thanks!
    Spitfire Brotherhood #2
    www.wyliewarbirds.com

  13. #88

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    RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

    Scott...thanks for starting this much needed thread and pulling it all together..good to meet many of you at TG in Florida this past year and hearing and seeing many of these Moki's ....Yes the list form thing is a great idea at the top of the thread....

    tfarmer96 ...Haha now I'm here too..Scott tipped me to it...I just got my first Moki 150 and have yet to run it...will go in in the Vailly FW190... just fits with 1/2 " clearance of the cowl...build one and we'll meet at Monsters and chase around ScottP and FrankT's Moki 150 P47's!

    Jeff N...good to hang with you in Florida....I have one of those TroyBuilt heat sensors, it works great and is nice and compact.

    How many of you had to add tail weight with the MOKI?.....or just shift batteries etc.. on what type plane...

    Matt

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  14. #89
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    RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

    I'm practically choked up in gratitude for you guys starting and keeping with this thread.

    I have mounted a 215 in an AirWorld Fw-190, run the engine several times on the test stand, but never in the plane. It runs fine, but I am terribly intimidated by all the stories about over-heating in a cowled situation. I am ready to test-fly, or just test-run, this combo and I have to admit I've come very close to scrapping the whole plan and gettin' a nice DA 150 that I know will haul the mail. But the radial sounds so beautiful!

    I talked to Dino DiGiorgio a couple of times at Top Gun the years he was flying this set-up there, and he was very kind to share his experience with such an obviously dumb novice as I. Despite the posts above by PEOPLE WHO REALLY KNOW THEIR STUFF, he claims the best way was just an open-fronted cowl with no baffles and an appropriate (2:1) outlet area, and said he had no problems with it. AND, besides just being Dino, I inspected his set-up and watched him fly it several times in the Florida heat, and I can testify he had no problems!

    I also have this beautiful Sierra spinner with fan blades, but I don't know if that helps or hurts.

    I have painstakingly constructed a flat baffle to block air flow except over the cylinder heads, but Dino's advice keeps ringing in my ears.

    I am tremendously relieved to see Mike participating in this thread and maintaining "service after sale" at his new company. I had no idea there were so many of these baby radials out there.

    Advice please, On the following specifics:

    1) Baffle or no?

    2) If yes baffle, then is a flat sheet good enough, or should the air flow be better directed by tapered dams over the blocked parts?

    3) Sierra spinner, or no?

    4) In summation, what's the best oil for a relatively new engine? Yamalube 30:1?


    And again, guys, thanks a ton for starting this thread.


    mt
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  15. #90

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    RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

    Hi Guys

    I stumbled on this tread and am amazed at all the info you guys have about this engine.
    I just bought a 250 second hand and have no instructions at all about this engine.
    So please be patient if my questions are stupid.
    Please can someone tell me the correct safe procedure to start this engine.
    I started it like my 3W gassers and the 1 st day it started fine. The next day I could not get it fired up.
    I am not sure if maybe I flooded it or if i missed something.
    I will install it in a 3W rear bear any suggestions on the prop would be greatly appreciated.
    I have the comp arf Gee bee would this be a good choice or would a 215 suit it better.
    Running the 3W oil with a 1 to 40 mix is this good?

    Regards]
    Alex

  16. #91

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    RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

    Hello82,


    This is the setup me and Jeff Naul are running on my Hellcat. Had to add 9 pounds on the firewall to balance. We are using my Hellcat as a test bed till he gets his Meister Scale P-47 finished (What a great friend to let me use his Moki 150). We are having a issue that it runs good on the ground but in the air we pick up a miss but it has never quite. We have no baffles in the cowl and we seem not to be having a heating issue we think. Thanks Todd
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  17. #92

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    RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

    Todd,

    So will you be getting your own 150 when JN is ready to put his in the P47? I wish Jeff would bring it to Monster Planes. I'll have one and F. Tiano will have one also. How cool would it be to fly three of those around together. The site and sound of three Meister 47's all running the 150 Moki would be too cool!?!?!?

    Get one Todd and bring it down for the October event!

    See you soon?

    Scott

  18. #93

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    RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

    Wow! Never did I think this would be of such interest to so many so quickly. Thank you all that have contributed and those that have read through the posts. It truly has answered so many questions and raised a few new ones (recommending running 50:1 for the last four years???). This has really been a great tool for many of us Moki owners. This has been far better than any manual I ever received with an engine.

    Thanks guys for taking the time to post your thoughts and experiences. Very helpful for us that have only been running them for a year or less. At some point in the future I will outline the material as best I can and post it back on here........if someone doesn't beat me to it!

    Just wanted to thank everyone and encourage the rest of you to chime in with your questions and or experiences.

    All the Best,
    Scott

  19. #94

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    RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

    FUNNY! Todd think's i'm being a good friend, The truth is that i would rather his bird go down if the fan quit's blowing rather than mine

    Scott, I wont be making Monster Planes, we are going to Atlanta and then I plan on going to the W.M.W.A. event at Dino's in December.
    Have you or Frank flown your 47's yet?

  20. #95
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    RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence


    ORIGINAL: Alex Louw

    Hi Guys

    I stumbled on this tread and am amazed at all the info you guys have about this engine.
    I just bought a 250 second hand and have no instructions at all about this engine.
    So please be patient if my questions are stupid.
    Please can someone tell me the correct safe procedure to start this engine.
    I started it like my 3W gassers and the 1 st day it started fine. The next day I could not get it fired up.
    I am not sure if maybe I flooded it or if i missed something.
    I will install it in a 3W rear bear any suggestions on the prop would be greatly appreciated.
    I have the comp arf Gee bee would this be a good choice or would a 215 suit it better.
    Running the 3W oil with a 1 to 40 mix is this good?

    Regards]
    Alex
    I built a C-ARF Yak 55 SP with a Moki 250 up front this winter/spring, I have only 6 flights on it so far. I have started the engine (a lot) both in the test bench and in the model.
    The easiest way to start the engine (in my opinion) is to apply choke, full throttle and ignition on. Swing the prop until the engine gives you a short but noticable "Wroff!" then open the choke, place the throttle to just above idle and then swing the prop for 4-8 times more and it will start.

    When it comes to prop selection I can only see two ways to go, Solo prop or a 4-bladed prop from Biela. Check this website for Biela props. (I have a 2-bladed 32x18 om mine)
    http://pp-rc.de/SHOP/esmigla.htm

    Best regards,
    Taygher
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  21. #96
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    RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

    Taygher, are you suggesting a 4 bladed prop for your Yak ??? is it the 3m Yak ? what kind of performance can you expect, conpaired to a 2 blade with the Moki. I have a 215 in my 3m Yak and it lacks power. ? but , I guess it flys at a more scale speed and sounds great..I use the same start procedures as you, except i use a starter on the very first start of the day. the engine is very easy to flood, however.. I also have installed baffles to direct air over the engine.

  22. #97

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    RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

    ORIGINAL: Todd Jackson

    Hello82,


    This is the setup me and Jeff Naul are running on my Hellcat. Had to add 9 pounds on the firewall to balance. We are using my Hellcat as a test bed till he gets his Meister Scale P-47 finished (What a great friend to let me use his Moki 150). We are having a issue that it runs good on the ground but in the air we pick up a miss but it has never quite. We have no baffles in the cowl and we seem not to be having a heating issue we think. Thanks Todd
    Todd/Jeff - wow still 9 pounds too the nose...I was thinking since these baby's are so heavy that tail weight might be needed, but she is a stub nose though so that makes sense...how do you like the 26x16 on her and flying characteristics, especially after having a G62 in it before? (saw that on your gallery info)... is that the same prop you used for break in?

    Matt

  23. #98

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    RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

    Hello82,
    The G-62 flew the Hellcat but with no great amount of backup power. The 150 has plenty of power and you will fly around at maybe 2 thirds throttle and of course you can't beat the sound and. We are still on the 26-16 prop for breakin.Now as for me getting one, I want one but I have dove off into this jet turbine deal and already had turbine failure so after I get it repaired and could find a buyer for jet and turbine I would love one. Should have stuck to the stuff I know and that’s gasoline burning engines.


    Now on to Jeff and wanting me to crash my plane if round motor quits[sm=71_71.gif][sm=71_71.gif][sm=71_71.gif].
    Let’s see, were is the P-47 being built????My shop {thought there was a burglar in there last night when I let dogs out to pee at 12:00 last night.}
    Will have to have a master cutoff on electricity in house to the shop .Jeff by the way is was going to be STEAK Fajitas tonight but I don't know now.See ya for supper Jeff and I might work on the Bearcat tonight so move that P-47 over a little and I will put a real plane on the table.

    Todd


  24. #99

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    RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

    Todd, I can pack my crap and move back to building at my shop, but we will both go into a deep dark depression because we wont have a building buddy Building alone late at night I get scared at my shop[sm=cry_smile.gif], the walls start making funny noises and I think i see dead people[X(]

  25. #100

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    RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

    Hi Todd,
    Looking at your photos there doesn’t seem to be much in the way of cooling outlet to let the hot air escape, do you have the cowl gills open? When flying does the engine run ok for three to four minutes and then lose power? If this is so are you at full throttle or at a mid range setting when this happens? Lots of questions I know, but hopefully we will get to the bottom of it. Next time you fly when you start to lose power, land and taxi in, restrain model and run engine at full throttle for 10 to 15 seconds then cut engine. Now do the β€œsizzle test”, touch each exhaust header in turn with a wet finger. Have all cylinders been running? If so then it is likely that the engine has been injesting hot air and losing power. See post 80 and blank off the holes in the engine mount to stop hot air reaching the carb. When doing this you must ensure that the carb can draw air freely from the fuselage such as from the tailwheel opening. To be completely safe run a flexible tube about ¾” diameter (the flexible conduit used to run electrical cables in a house is good for this) from the cowl air inlet through the bulkhead and into the general carb area.
    Now, assuming that the engine has lost a cylinder I will hazard a guess that it is the No 3 cylinder, looking from the front it is the cylinder at the 7 o’clock position. (This cylinder always gets rich fuel due to its position and the throw of the crank web) Pull the sparkplug; is it black, wet and oily? If so clean it with fresh fuel and exchange it with the plug in the No 1 cylinder. It is highly likely that you have the idle/mid range (L) needle too rich. Now run the engine at 1000rpm and lean out the (L) needle until the engine starts to cut. Now open it 1/8th of a turn, check the idle, mid range transition and full throttle and you should be good to go. See Post 80 and fly with a higher flight idle setting. If you hit the (L) needle sweet spot you may find that when starting from COLD the engine will start ok but will not throttle up at all until it has warmed up for 20 to 30 seconds. I hope this helps and that you haven’t fallen asleep Ha! Ha!!
    Best regards,
    Doug


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