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MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

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Old 07-27-2009, 11:28 AM
  #101
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

Doug we pulled the plugs a few weeks ago and like you said lower cylinders were bad rich. What scares me is that the top two plugs were a nice chocalate color so that makes me fearful in leaniing it more. We have never leaned it much since it was first put on the plane so that is the next step is to lean it untill it starts losing r.p.m. you had some very good points, thanks Jeff
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Old 07-27-2009, 06:57 PM
  #102
Scott Prossen
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Had a good time with Frank Tiano and Company today during his maiden of the Meister P-47 with a Moki 150 in it. The plane flew great and the engine is an excellent match for it. The plane is back at the shop to have a few minor issues resolved , nothing out of the ordinary. A seperate and concerning issue; the engine had quit half way through the first flight forcing a dead stick "successful" landing. The second flight immediately revealed a miss in the engine. So, the day concluded with the known fact that the model flies and the engine is plenty for it. The engine needs a little fine tuning and those few items taken care of and we'll be back out to try again. It was great to see as I'm in the process of mounting a 150 in a Meister 47 I purchased from PJ Ash a month ago. Now I'm real excited about it. Can't wait. Will have it done in the next week or two......I hope[]!

Dino was there today as well to get some video and photos I can only assume for his website. What a beautiful example Frank built from the fiberglass fuse and wood wing kit. Have to say that the P-47 was once again a testament to the Meister Scale airfoil. I think given more time to fly the plane Frank could of landed it at 10 MPH. That model on that wing is a beautiful thing. Always good to see you Dino! Thanks for keeping a great product available to all of us.

Here's a few pictures guys. I promise to get a few flying ones next time. Check Meister's' site in the coming weeks for better pictures.

Happy Landings,
Scott
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Old 07-28-2009, 04:21 AM
  #103
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Hi Alex,
I’ve found that this starting procedure works well. On a tail dragger get your helper to hold the fuselage level or very slightly nose down. Set throttle to ¼, close choke, turn ignition on. Carefully rotate prop holding it very firmly and after about two turns or so you will feel a large bump as you get ignition in one of the cylinders. Set choke off, throttle to idle and flip prop. The engine should start after a flip or two.
Best regards,
Doug
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Old 07-28-2009, 06:55 AM
  #104
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: snobird

Taygher, are you suggesting a 4 bladed prop for your Yak ??? is it the 3m Yak ? what kind of performance can you expect, conpaired to a 2 blade with the Moki. I have a 215 in my 3m Yak and it lacks power. ? but , I guess it flys at a more scale speed and sounds great..I use the same start procedures as you, except i use a starter on the very first start of the day. the engine is very easy to flood, however.. I also have installed baffles to direct air over the engine.
Hi snobird,

I was thinking about the 3W Rare Bear when I said 4 bladed prop. On a Yak 55 a 3 bladed would be nice but I am a bit worried of loosing power so I am going with a 32x18 2 bladed prop for the time being. I am happy with the power in my 250 and just love the sound ofcourse. I built this plane for classic aerobatic flying and I have honestly never flown a better flying airplane. I am looking forward to getting to know her better so my nerves can get a break. Perhaps I will also forget the price tag after a couple of months/years..

/Taygher
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Old 07-28-2009, 09:30 AM
  #105
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

About 2 years ago I got bitten by the Moki bug. So I started reading and got all the info what I could get - which was not much. I saw Dino's and other Moki's run and their fight with it. That cooled my hype pretty much down.
I'm happy for you owners which have no problems and enjoy their sound.
But for me I will wait until the 3W [link=http://www.3w-modellmotoren.com/english/www_3W_Modellmotoren_com.html]here is the link[/link] is available - this engine has everything what I desire and if I spent that much money I need something in return.

As I said I'm happy for you guys.

One thought about cooling and black spark plugs. To measure "health" on a combustion engine, first thing to do is pull the spark plug and look what picture you see. A black spark plug has several reasons. One could also the motor never reaches his normal working temperature. 320 to 420F right on the spark plug seal washer is a good temperature for a 4 stroke, 2 stroke can take up to 500 F. If you spent over $3K for an engine you can spent 100 bucks for a good temp monitoring system, at least I would do that. These engines do not run very high RPM - I would be more concerned on a clean burn (320 to 420F) then on overheating, which I doubt happen in a cowl.

Very nice and thoughtful to start this post string. However, this should be combined in the manufactures manual. Which is, as I read here nonexistent. Very interesting to read here and I can draw more of my own conclusions.

kudos
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Old 07-28-2009, 12:06 PM
  #106
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an question!!! but "Skip Stewart" she like the death!!!...i see how flying...she is very crazy[sm=spinnyeyes.gif]!!!!!!!!......
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Old 07-28-2009, 03:32 PM
  #107
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I agree the 3 blade would not be a good choice.. i'm going to try a 32x14, which is what RCS recomments. I'll let you know how it goes (now using a 34x12) on my 215
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Old 07-28-2009, 04:47 PM
  #108
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: rc4flying

Hello Guys,

Today we started a Moki 250 for the first time. WOW !!!!!!! This thing sounds great.
I did a re-fit of a Comp-ARF Pitts 12 from a DA 150 on Greeves and changed over to the Moki 250.
I did this for my friend who just had to have this done. He was here when I startd it and is totally happy with the results.
I had to strip out all the radio gear from the first install to be able to rebalance the plane with this Moki. After hearing it, It is worth it.
Hope to have many successfull flights. We will hopefully remaiden the plane this weekend. Here is our littler project.


: rc4flying... any news on the maiden this past weekend and engine performance etc?

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Old 07-28-2009, 10:34 PM
  #109
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

I love the sound of the 215 and I really want it to work in my big Fw-190.

These stories of accomplished modellers having trouble keeping the Moki running (see Scott's story above) make me very nervous.

Yes, a nice, organized owner's manual would be nice. All these reports are very good to have and very much appreciated, but the advice is kinda all over the place.

I can count on one hand the number of times a DA or a 3W has quit on me.

Pete: I don't see any mention on the 3W website of a radial.


mt
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Old 07-29-2009, 03:21 AM
  #110
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

Regarding the 3W radial, in the Engine menu - look for the 256 STR5.
There are also 11 pictures of it under the news menu.

It seems as this engine is not ready for sale yet (no price tag), it looks great and the performance is also interesting. 20ps and speed range up to 7000rpm.. Wow.
It swings huge props as well, recommended 36x14 to 36x18 2 bladed prop.. Too bad about the weight though, almost 7 kgs (17 lbs). In my 3m Yak, balancing was an issue with the Moki that weighs approx 5 kgs (11 lbs) but maybe it will suit the 3,3m Yak better.

/Taygher
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Old 07-29-2009, 06:46 AM
  #111
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Hello82


Quote:
ORIGINAL: rc4flying

Hello Guys,

Today we started a Moki 250 for the first time. WOW !!!!!!! This thing sounds great.
I did a re-fit of a Comp-ARF Pitts 12 from a DA 150 on Greeves and changed over to the Moki 250.
I did this for my friend who just had to have this done. He was here when I startd it and is totally happy with the results.
I had to strip out all the radio gear from the first install to be able to rebalance the plane with this Moki. After hearing it, It is worth it.
Hope to have many successfull flights. We will hopefully remaiden the plane this weekend. Here is our littler project.


: rc4flying... any news on the maiden this past weekend and engine performance etc?

Being you ask, It was very successful. The plane weighed in at 51 lbs. The Moki 250 with 32x14 prop pulled the plane around effortless. I pulled some big loops and full throttle runs and we were very pleased with the performance for just the first few runs. The engine started easily and ran great. Other then finding one of the valve pushrods loose and quickly readjusted, there were no problems.
We had smoke on during the third flight and the owner was excited as all heck. This thing was worth every bit of changing over to the radial engine, just for being different. And as the owner of the plane said......This has brought a new lease on life for enjoying this plane. Listening to this engine during a slow flyby was the best.
See some of the attached pics. Engine graphics are in the process of being changed now.


Again, sorry to those for posting in the warbird forum.
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Old 07-29-2009, 07:38 AM
  #112
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

The 3W radial is indeed interesting. It has been on and off their website for 3-4 years now. Whether or not it ever sees the light of day is unknown to me, it would be interesting if someone here had connections back to the factory to get some real information. Given the history, it might be a long wait :-)

Dave
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Old 07-29-2009, 07:52 AM
  #113
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: kram

I love the sound of the 215 and I really want it to work in my big Fw-190.

These stories of accomplished modellers having trouble keeping the Moki running (see Scott's story above) make me very nervous.

......... All these reports are very good to have and very much appreciated, but the advice is kinda all over the place.

I can count on one hand the number of times a DA or a 3W has quit on me.
mt

I agree. I have no problems doing maintanance, however reliability is key.........I would like to here some more reports of relaible operation and less reports of deadsticks and misfires. All positive input greatly appreciated.

Peter
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Old 07-29-2009, 08:03 AM
  #114
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence


Quote:
ORIGINAL: rc4flying

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Hello82


Quote:
ORIGINAL: rc4flying

Hello Guys,

Today we started a Moki 250 for the first time. WOW !!!!!!! This thing sounds great.
I did a re-fit of a Comp-ARF Pitts 12 from a DA 150 on Greeves and changed over to the Moki 250.
I did this for my friend who just had to have this done. He was here when I startd it and is totally happy with the results.
I had to strip out all the radio gear from the first install to be able to rebalance the plane with this Moki. After hearing it, It is worth it.
Hope to have many successfull flights. We will hopefully remaiden the plane this weekend. Here is our littler project.


: rc4flying... any news on the maiden this past weekend and engine performance etc?

Being you ask, It was very successful. The plane weighed in at 51 lbs. The Moki 250 with 32x14 prop pulled the plane around effortless. I pulled some big loops and full throttle runs and we were very pleased with the performance for just the first few runs. The engine started easily and ran great. Other then finding one of the valve pushrods loose and quickly readjusted, there were no problems.
We had smoke on during the third flight and the owner was excited as all heck. This thing was worth every bit of changing over to the radial engine, just for being different. And as the owner of the plane said......This has brought a new lease on life for enjoying this plane. Listening to this engine during a slow flyby was the best.
See some of the attached pics. Engine graphics are in the process of being changed now.


Again, sorry to those for posting in the warbird forum.


There's some positive good news...keep us posted on the consistency if you can of the performance over time of the break in etc....I think I read a number of pages back that some added some threadlocker to some of the screws?.....is there a number of screws anyone can suggest that should maybe thread locked right from the get go before even running it? Was the cooling mainly the outlet hole on the bottom of the cowl?


The 3w sounds interesting....

M
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Old 07-29-2009, 08:05 AM
  #115
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

Please don't over react to the maiden my report of Franks maiden. He did not want to work on it at the Field in the hot sun so back to the office it went. I believe the issue were simple. Possibly just adjusting the needles a bit and opening up some vent holes of which there were none. We'll see shortly as another attempt is slated for the coming week.

I have been at 5 Moki maidens and this is the only one so far with an issue. I have been to 50+ maidens of standard two cycle maidens (3W's and DA's included) that had issues as well. Don't over react all will be fine shortly.

Scott
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Old 07-29-2009, 08:21 AM
  #116
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

In my many many flights with two 250 radials on two different airplanes, only one time did I have one quit in flight. It is an interesting story...

About half way through a flight the engine tone changed, sounding a little rough. I set up a precautionary landing, and as the throttle was reduced, the engine sounded rougher. As I reduced to idle just before flaring, the motor quit.

Quick inspection revealed a missing valve pushrod. Replaced and tried to restart .. but would not.

Turned out the problem was the bolts holding one cylinder to crankcase had loosened and the jug was wobbling, thus making the pushrod loose. This also let air into the case, making it too lean to run at idle. Tightened up and all set .. no damage to the motor, still runs fine.

I was impressed that even under this rather extreme circumsance the motor stayed running almost to the bitter end and brought the plane home safely .. much like the stories we hear from WWII planes with radials coming back all shot up... :-)

Lesson learned .. periodically verify security of cylinder mounting bolts. Have never found another loose bolt...

Dave
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Old 07-29-2009, 10:36 AM
  #117
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: ww2birds
The 3W radial is indeed interesting. It has been on and off their website for 3-4 years now. Whether or not it ever sees the light of day is unknown to me, it would be interesting if someone here had connections back to the factory to get some real information. Given the history, it might be a long wait :-)
Dave
I talked to the 3W guys end of last year and they hold back on that engine due the economy. Well, it make no sense to me, but this is not my company. The prototypes are done and the results are good. Right now the engine would be too expensive - that's what they say. So, I estimate 5 to 6K.
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Old 07-29-2009, 10:42 AM
  #118
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: Doolittleraider
I agree. I have no problems doing maintanance, however reliability is key.........I would like to here some more reports of relaible operation and less reports of deadsticks and misfires. All positive input greatly appreciated.
Peter
The problem is, the high dollar amount involved in this engine - People tend to say this is an awesome engine. Even when their motor threw a rod. But this is actually not the subject here - sorry for the sidetrack.

Well, who comes forward and write a manual for the Moki engine??? This could be anchored in the archives of RCU.
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Old 07-29-2009, 10:58 AM
  #119
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

G-Pete,

I have about half a dozen 3W engines. They generally run well, and I have continued to purchase them desipte some problems with crankcase leaks, ignition issues, and warped plastic carb mounts. Like all products on our hobby they have their issues, and quite frankly, more issues than I have had with the Moki radials. Still, if you take the time to understand them and care for them, they are very good motors.

So I see no conflict in saying the radials are great motors even if one had a bolt loosen one time.

Not sure what your point is unless it's to advocate for 3W generally... not that that is unreasonable of course!

I have spent a certain amount of time drooling over the pics of the 3W radial (and the reborn Seidels) and I belive there are plenty of high-end customers who would buy them without hesitation even at the prices mentioned. It is a niche, high-end product that will have relatively small volume of users who tend to be less impacted by economic fluctuations, if you know what I mean.

Dave
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Old 07-29-2009, 11:57 AM
  #120
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Dave, i like 3W in general. I don't own one because DA is "just around the corner" and after a crash (for an example) the engine returns within two weeks. What I like on the 3W are the enclosed push rods, rocker cover, and oil pan (!!!).

Your last sentence was my thought as well - but that's what they stated to me. The Seidel's are now build in India[X(] My opinion is a german product should be made in Germany. Again this is just my opinion.

As I mentioned before Dave, I'm happy for you guys. We will have a 150 in our neighborhood and I keep an eye on this one.
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Old 07-29-2009, 12:05 PM
  #121
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Yes, agreed, it's the dry-sump lubrication that is one very cool feature of the 3W. Hope they release it...

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Old 07-29-2009, 07:40 PM
  #122
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: Scott Prossen

Please don't over react to the maiden my report of Franks maiden. He did not want to work on it at the Field in the hot sun so back to the office it went. I believe the issue were simple. Possibly just adjusting the needles a bit and opening up some vent holes of which there were none. We'll see shortly as another attempt is slated for the coming week.

I have been at 5 Moki maidens and this is the only one so far with an issue. I have been to 50+ maidens of standard two cycle maidens (3W's and DA's included) that had issues as well. Don't over react all will be fine shortly.

Scott
Lets us know what the issue(s) was and the fix(es).....I am reading this thread to learn as much as possible and avoid similar problems with my Moki 150. The ziroli corsair I am mounting mine in has little in the way of air "exits".... the cowl is very close to the fuse. So I will be awaiting to learn how Frank T. addresses the issue. Maybe I can use the same cooling techniques on mine. I am already considering opening the cowl flaps.

Peter
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Old 07-29-2009, 08:16 PM
  #123
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Peter,

No problem[sm=wink_smile.gif]. I will post exactly what I find out. We will be working on it in the next few days and flying it next week or so. The goal is to have it for Atlanta in September and Monster Planes in October. I really think it will be a minor fix to get it right and I'll keep you posted on what is done to fix it and what exactly caused the problem. I believe it was all fuel and heat related. Only my opinion, we'll see what the facts are later.

Thanks for following along Pete. As you know I have a 150 and never had a problem with it. Not even once. So I feel very confident that it will work out great.

See you soon,
Scott
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Old 07-30-2009, 05:56 AM
  #124
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

Thanks Scott. I bought the moki 150 because of you man! I can't wait to run it.
A side note: An uploaded pic or two labeling the key bolts or nuts that need to be tighetened or "lock tighted" in here would be extremely benificial.
Thanks again for a great thread
Peter
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Old 07-31-2009, 03:38 PM
  #125
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I'm using a 5 cell 2400ma nimh pack for ignition and am using about 350 to 375 ma per flight. Just curious if this is what other Moki users are getting for power draw.
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