Ernie P.

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I had to check back and make sure we were still on track. You are correct and you are up, Sir. Thanks; Ernie P.

Ernie P.

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Boy oh boy, am I tempted to throw out a quick "Depending on the model, it would be either A, B or C" answer. But I will refrain and simply ask "Which model P-47"? Thanks; Ernie P.

Evil_Merlin

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Which engine model?
R-2800-59?
R-2800-57(C) engine with the CH-5 turbo-supercharger?
R-2800-77(C)?

The Raven

Good question, you've caught me out. I'm rechecking my references but I would expect it to be the early model, noting the figures I have are lower than what a quick google will reveal.

glasscock

18,000 rpm for the supercharger.

The Raven

Correct, that was the figure I was looking for as 'optimum' with 18500 being max.

OK, I wasn't aware my question was vague but I'll cite my reference as: How to Fly the P-47 Thunderbolt - Ground Handling, Take-Off, Normal Flight and Landing (1943)

You can find the video on zenoswarbirdvideos

glasscock

Thanks! What was the first plane to shoot down a me-262?

800mZero

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p-47


The first documented air combat involving an Me-262 took place on 25 July 1944, when a Schwalbe pounced on an RAF Mosquito that escaped only by the hardest. One Me-262 was shot down near Brussels on 28 August by a pair of USAAF P-47 Thunderbolts, the first Me-262 to be lost to direct enemy action.

Evil_Merlin

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A British Tempest damaged a Me 262 which then crash landed, almost a full month ahead of the P-47 shoot down (probably the difference betwen the first Allied shoot down of the Me 262 and the first American shoot down of a 262)

glasscock

Negative, 800 and Evil...

This plane has a predecessor that had a wooden wing spar.

800mZero

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dh 98 mosquito?

Evil_Merlin

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Hrm... I'll have to go back and check the Me 262 books.

Experten109/40

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The first Me 262 shot down in combat was on 5 October 1944 by Spitfire IXs of 401 RCAF. The 262 pilot was H.C. Butmann in WNr 170093 of 3./KG51.

glasscock

Not according to my research. Think Russian aircraft.....

Experten109/40

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don't need to think about Russian aircraft...my answer is the correct one. but your the asker of the question
so its whatever YOU think is correct.

PS,

unless its confirmed by actual German documents, I wouldn't put to much faith in Russian propoganda.

glasscock

800mZero got it! P-47 28 August 1944. Sorry guys...........my research showed it was a Russian fighter, which might come into play later.

Evil_Merlin

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No, you are not correct P-40K-5. The date you quoted is for A2A engagement combat.

Several Me 262's have been shot down BEFORE that date when landing, but none-the-less shot down.


I also have some documentation in one of the good Me-262 books from Classic Publications that says different about the first shoot down. I'll find it and scan it (if I am remembering correctly).

Experten109/40

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you probably are correct Evil. I'd like to see any official documents saying that the P-47 was the first.
not trying to start anything, I just enjoy learning. That said, officially, it was that Spitfire.

this kinda reminds me of the whole who shot down the Red Barron... lol!

Evil_Merlin

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Ugh.

No officially the spitfire wasn't. The spitfire was only the first to shoot the plane down while engaged in a dogfight with one.

P-51B

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Now I am curious. Evil, I hope you can find your publication to see what it says.

I found this online ( http://www.dark-history.eu/Me262.htm );

The first Me 262 , belonging to 3. Staffel/Kampfgeschwader 51, with unit code letters "9K+BL", was shot down in combat on 5 October 1944 by Spitfire IXs of 401 RCAF. The 262 pilot was H.C. Butmann in WNr 170093 of 3./KG51.

To me, that says that the first 262 produced was assigned to that squadron and later shot down by a spitfire, not that the spitfire was the first to shoot down a 262.


That same site also says:

The first recorded Allied destruction of a Me 262, belonging to the unit known as Kommando Schenk, was on 28 August 1944, claimed as destroyed by 78th FG pilots Major Joseph Myers and Second Lieutenant Manford O. Croy flying P-47 Thunderbolts. Oberfeldwebel Hieronymus "Ronny" Lauer of I KG(J) 51, on a landing pattern crash landed his 262 to get away from the Allied fighters, which then destroyed the Me 262 in strafing attacks.


I think I will go with Snoopy on his doghouse for this question AND for who got the Red Baron...

Evil_Merlin

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Crashing an Me 262 while under attack is still a kill. The Germans, Americans and Brits (even the Russians) gave kill credit for doing it.

I thought I remember reading in mid September one was shot down... but I'll check my books when I get home.

mobyal

I'll be darned. A J-3/L-4! LOL

Experten109/40

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hmmm perhaps, but the source I got this from says "the first 262 to be shot down..." lol.
I agree with respect to the making and emergency landing to avoid getting shot down.
if it didn't get a bullit hit in the air, strafing means just that... not an arial kill. just something
on the ground...

Evil hates me by now I think LOL!

glasscock

mobyal,

J-3 Cub....WOW! The Russian plane I was looking for as the answer and read about was the LA-7 that shot down an ME-262. The LA-5 had a wooden wing spar. Like someone mentioned earlier, I fell victim to the Russian propaganda and did not do enough research. Again, sorry for the "Red Baron" question guys.

Onward we go..............Your question 800mZero!

800mZero

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Ok,

This was the first fighter to use inflight refueling.
This was the first fighter wit hthe cpability of carrying a nuke.