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  1. #6651

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    RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz

    I was thinking the Bell X 1 also untill i read that it had swept back wings.
    so what about the Douglas D-558 Skyrocket then

  2. #6652

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    RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz

    DFS 346
    Given Germany's advanced knowledge of high-speed flight, the DFS 346 design featured highly swept wings and tail surfaces, wing fences, and a very clean streamlined fuselage to reduce drag. The plane also carried a single pilot laying on his stomach in a prone position in the aircraft's nose. Although this position was uncomfortable, it allowed the plane to maintain a more aerodynamic profile to reduce drag and improve performance.

    The sole DFS 346 prototype was about half-built at the time it was captured, so the plane and the German engineers working on it were moved to a location in the Soviet Union to complete development. The vehicle was renamed simply as Samolyot 346, or "aircraft 346," and finished in 1946. This prototype was used for various ground testing purposes including wind tunnel tests. In 1947, a second example was completed as an unpowered glider to conduct launch and slow-speed flight tests. This 346-P was successfully released from a captured American B-29 that had made an emergency landing in Siberia during the war, and the glider landed safely under the command of German pilot Wolfgang Ziese.
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  3. #6653

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    RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz


    ORIGINAL: Luft-Gangster

    DFS 346
    Given Germany's advanced knowledge of high-speed flight, the DFS 346 design featured highly swept wings and tail surfaces, wing fences, and a very clean streamlined fuselage to reduce drag. The plane also carried a single pilot laying on his stomach in a prone position in the aircraft's nose. Although this position was uncomfortable, it allowed the plane to maintain a more aerodynamic profile to reduce drag and improve performance.

    The sole DFS 346 prototype was about half-built at the time it was captured, so the plane and the German engineers working on it were moved to a location in the Soviet Union to complete development. The vehicle was renamed simply as Samolyot 346, or ''aircraft 346,'' and finished in 1946. This prototype was used for various ground testing purposes including wind tunnel tests. In 1947, a second example was completed as an unpowered glider to conduct launch and slow-speed flight tests. This 346-P was successfully released from a captured American B-29 that had made an emergency landing in Siberia during the war, and the glider landed safely under the command of German pilot Wolfgang Ziese.
    And there you have it! Right on the money, Luft-Gangster. You got the answer, and you are up. Congratulations! I think the DFS 346 is interesting because it was the only one of the "Luftwaffe super planes" on the drawing board at the end of the war to actually be completed and flown. Yeah, Kurt Tank did some things in Argentina after the war; but not quite the same thing. Now... wasn't that easy? Thanks; Ernie P.


    What warbird do I describe?


    Clues:

    (1) This aircraft first flew in the late 1940s.

    (2) It was carried aloft by a bomber.

    (3) It was rocket powered.

    (4) It featured sharply swept wings and a bullet shaped fuselage.

    (5) It went transonic.

    (6) The mother aircraft was a B-29.

    (7) The aircraft was designed and construction begun in one country. It was completed and flown in a second country.

    (8) It was equipped with a landing skid.

    (9) The cabin was pressurized.

    (10) Midwing design, construction was all metal.

    (11) It was essentially bullet shaped; with a cylinder shaped body which narrowed to a square in the rear.

    (12) Length was around 44’; with the wingspan around 29-1/2’.

    (13) Its intended mission was photo reconnaissance.

    (14) It had an unusual position for the pilot.


    Answer: The DFS 346

    The DFS 346 (Samolyot 346) was a German rocket-powered swept-wing vehicle subsequently completed and flown (with indifferent success) in the Soviet Union after World War II.[3] It was designed by Felix Kracht at the Deutsche Forschungsanstalt fΓΌr Segelflug (DFS), the "German Institute for Sailplane Flight". The prototype was still unfinished by the end of the war and was taken to the Soviet Union where it was rebuilt, tested and flown.

    The DFS-346 was a midwing design of all-metal construction. The front fuselage of the 346 was a rotation body based on the NACA-Profile 0,0121-0,66-50. The middle part was cylindrical and narrowed to the square in the back. Probably for capacity and weight reasons the DFS-346 was equipped with landing skids, both in the original German design and in the later Soviet prototypes; this caused trouble several times.

    The wings had a 45Β° swept NACA 0,012-0,55-1,25 profile of 12% thickness. The continuously varying profile shape caused a stall in certain flight conditions, which caused complete loss of control. This was later corrected by use of fences on the top of the wings.

    The DFS 346 was a parallel project to the DFS 228 high-altitude reconnaissance aircraft, designed under the direction of Felix Kracht and his team at DFS. While the DFS 228 was essentially of conventional sailplane design, the DFS 346 had highly-swept wings and a highly streamlined fuselage that its designers hoped would enable it to break the sound barrier.

    Like its stablemate, it also featured a self-contained escape module for the pilot, a feature originally designed for the DFS 54 prior to the war. The pilot was to fly the machine from a prone position, a feature decided from experience with the first DFS 228 prototype. This was mainly because of the smaller cross-sectional area and easier sealing of the pressurized cabin, but it was also known to help with g-force handling.

    The 346 design was intended to be air-launched from the back of a large aircraft, the baseline being the Dornier Do 217. After launch, the pilot would fire the 346's Walter 509B/C engine to accelerate to a proposed speed of Mach 2.6 and altitude of 30,500 meters (100,000 ft). This engine had two chambers, high and low thrust, and after reaching altitude the speed could be maintained by short bursts of the smaller chamber.

    In an operational use the plane would then glide over England for a photo-reconnaissance run, descending as it flew but still at a high speed. After the run was complete the engine would be briefly turned on again, to raise the altitude for a long low-speed glide back to a base in Germany or northern France.
    [edit] Prototype construction

    Since the aircraft was to be of all-metal construction, the DFS lacked the facilities to build it and construction of the prototype was assigned to Siebel Werke located in Halle, where the first windtunnel models and partially built prototype were captured by the advancing Red Army.

    On 22 October 1946, the Soviet OKB-2 (Design Bureau 2), under the direction of Hans RΓΆssing and Alexandr Bereznyak, was tasked with continuing its development.

    The captured DFS 346, now simply called "Samolyot 346" ("Samolyot" - Aircraft) to distance it from its German origins, was completed and tested in TsAGI wind tunnel T-101. Tests revealed some aerodynamic deficiencies which would result in unrecoverable stalls at certain angles of attack. This phenomenon involved a loss of longitudinal stability of the airframe. After the wind tunnel tests, two wing fences were installed on a more advanced, longer version of the DFS-346, to correct the airstream separation.

    This solution was used on the majority of the Soviet planes with sweptback wings of the 1950s and 1960s. In the meantime, the escape capsule system was tested from a B-25J and proved promising. Despite results from studies showing that the plane would not have been able to pass even Mach 1, it was ordered to proceed with construction and further testing.

    Operational use
    In 1947, an entirely new 346 prototype was constructed, incorporating refinements suggested by the tests. This was designated 346-P ("P" for planer - "glider"). No provision was made for a powerplant, but ballast was added to simulate the weight of an engine and fuel. This was carried to altitude by a B-29 Superfortress captured in Vladivostok and successfully flown by Wolfgang Zeise in a series of tests. This led to the construction of three more prototypes, intended to lead to powered flight of the type.
    Newly built 346-1 incorporated minor aerodynamic refinements over the 346-P, and was first flown by Zeise on September 30, 1948, with dummy engines installed. The glider was released at an altitude of 9700 m, and the pilot realised that he hardly could maintain control of the aircraft. Consequently, while attempting to land, he descended too fast (his speed was later estimated at 310 km/h). After first touching the ground he bounced up to a height of 3–4 m and flew 700–800 m. At the second descent, the landing ski collapsed and the fuselage hit the ground hard.[4]

    The pilot seat structure and safety-belt proved to be very unreliable, because at the end of a rough braking course Zeise was thrown forward and struck the canopy with his head, losing consciousness. Luckily, he wasn't seriously injured, and after treatment in hospital he was able to return to flying. Accident investigation research team came to the conclusion that the crash was a result of pilot error, who failed to fully release the landing skid. This accident showed that the aircraft handling was still very unpredictable, as a result, all rocket-powered flights were postponed until pilots were able to effectively control the aircraft in unpowered descent, requiring further glide flights.[4]

    The damaged 346-1 was later repaired and modified to 346-2 version. It was successfully flown by test pilot P.Kazmin in 1950-1951 winter, but nonetheless these flights also ended "on fuselage". Furthermore, after the last flight of these series, the airframe again required major repairs. On 10 May in 1951, Zeise returned to the program, flying final unpowered test flights with the 346-2, and from 6 June, unpowered tests of the 346-3 without accidents.

    By the mid-1951 346-3 was completed, and Zeise flew it under power for the first time on 13 August 1951, using only one of the plane's engines. Continuing concerns about the aircraft's stability at high speeds had led to a VNE limit of Mach 0.9 being placed during test flights. Zeise flew it again on 2 September and 14 September. On this last flight, however, things went drastically wrong. Separating from the carrier plane at 9,300 meters (30,500 ft) above Lukovici airfield, the pilot fired the engine and accelerated to a speed of 900 km/h (560 mph). The rocket engine worked as expected, and 346-3, quickly accelerating, started ascending and soon had flown in very close proximity of its carrier aircraft.[4]

    Zeise then reported that the plane was not responding to the controls, and was losing altitude. Ground control commanded him to bail out. He used the escape capsule to leave the stricken aircraft at 6,500 meters (21,000 ft) and landed safely by parachute. With the loss of this aircraft, the 346 program was abandoned.[
    Variants


    DFS-346 - First prototype built by Siebel Werke in the early 1940s. Later taken to USSR where the newly formed OKB-2 tested it in TsAGI wind tunnel.Later scrapped, because it was not flyable.

    346-P - This airframe was first post-war build of this plane, and was completed in 1948 by German engineers. Visually 346-P was identical to the earlier design, excepting a landing gear cowl which was removed primarily for lightening the airframe. This prototype also featured mounted under wing supports, to help stop the plane when landed.

    346-1(A) - On the 5 May 1949 construction of 346-1 was finished. It had a rocket engine mock up installed, and incorporated some minor changes in the rudder and tail design.

    346-2(D) - The same as 346-1, but the rocket engines fitted.

    346-3 - Only plane that flew rocket-engine powered, and twice went transonic.

    General characteristics
    Crew: one, pilot
    Length: 44 ft 1 in (13.45 m)
    Wingspan: 29 ft 6 in (9 m)
    Height: 11 ft 7 in (3.54 m)
    Wing area: 213 ftΒ² (19.9 mΒ²)
    Airfoil: DFS 346#Design
    Empty weight: 4,806 lb (2,100 kg)
    Loaded weight: 11,506 lb (5,230 kg)
    Powerplant: 1Γ— Walter HWK 109-509 rocket, 33.4 kN (7,500 lbf) 33.4 kN

    Note: Went transonic when being tested by Soviets after war.


  4. #6654

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    RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz


    ORIGINAL: G T

    I was thinking the Bell X 1 also untill i read that it had swept back wings.
    so what about the Douglas D-558 Skyrocket then
    If you look closely, you weren't all that far off the mark, G T. Thanks; Ernie P.

  5. #6655

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    RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz

    Wow, I just enjoyed the research and what I learned from it. I'M UP! If this means I get to ask the next question, then here goes. If not correct me please, because I have not read this whole tread.
    How many clues do I start with and at what frequency do I add more?

    What Warbird do I describe?

    Clues:

    (1) Multi Purpose Aircraft.

    (2) Could take off and land on a football field with a 35,000lb payload.

  6. #6656
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    RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz

    C-130 with RATO?
    The three most useless things to a pilot, the sky above you, the runway behind you, and the fuel on the ground.

  7. #6657

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    RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz

    cfircav8r
    Right on the money. C-130 with JATO assist as we called it back in the 70's. Hercules or Herky Bird as those of us who served in the USAF refered to her as.
    Multi Purpose:
    Cargo ( palatized or rolling ) - carry airborne troops - Gun Ship (Black Bird or Puff the Magic Dragon) - and don't forger bomber.(many instant Drop Zones were created by strapping a bomb to a standard 88"x108" pallet, arming and dropping it out the back cargo door and instant DZ with no enemy.
    During the Easter Offensive of 1972 the flight engineer and loadmaster had the privelege of hanging through criss crossed tie-down strapes in the side jump doors and shooting flares accross the front of the path of SAM's fired at the aircraft.

    Well cfircav8r, I guess your up. Congratulations.

  8. #6658

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    RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz


    ORIGINAL: Luft-Gangster

    cfircav8r
    Right on the money.Β* C-130 with JATO assist as we called it back in the 70's.Β* Hercules or Herky Bird as those of us who served in the USAF refered to her as.
    Multi Purpose:
    Β*Β* Cargo ( palatized or rolling ) - carry airborne troops - Gun Ship (Black Bird or Puff the Magic Dragon) - and don't forger bomber.Β*(many instant Drop Zones were created by strapping a bomb to a standard 88''x108'' pallet, arming and dropping it out the back cargo door and instant DZ with no enemy.
    During the Easter Offensive of 1972 the flight engineer and loadmaster had the privelege of hanging through criss crossed tie-down strapes in the side jump doors and shooting flares accross the front of the path of SAM's fired at the aircraft.

    Well cfircav8r, I guess your up. Congratulations.
    Luft-Gangster; that's the kind of detail that adds to the discussion. It helps me learn, and I suspect I'm not alone. Thanks: Ernie P.

  9. #6659
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    RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz

    Sorry I'm late in getting back.

    This may be easy but here goes.

    1. Poor high altitude performance.

    2. Extremely vulnerable in air-to-air combat.

    3. Didn't come into its own until its mission changed.
    The three most useless things to a pilot, the sky above you, the runway behind you, and the fuel on the ground.

  10. #6660
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    RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz

    P-40?
    Fleet Brotherhood #5
    Half A Wing, Three Engines and A Prayer

  11. #6661

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    RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz

    P-39 Airacobra?

  12. #6662
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    RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz

    Well JonnyS You were too quick, the P-39 or P-400 Airacobra. My next clue was going to be "sometimes referred to as a P-40 with a zero on its tail"

    The P-39 was a mediocre fighter due to the poor high altitude performance and the fact that the most vulnerable parts (engine and coolant) was in the aft portion of the A/C. Losses were high in the air to air role, but when they started useing them for the dangerous ground/ship attack role they started to shine. This was most evident with the Russians success in using them in this role.

    P-39's that were sent to the USAAF in the south pacific were designated the P-400, and its poor high altitude performance and air to air vulerabilities earned it the title of a P40 with a Zero on its tail.

    When it finally started being used as a ground attack aircraft its abilities began to shine through. With the large cannon in the nose it was a heavy hitter and if they were bounced at low altitude they had a superior roll rate at speeds below 265 mph. This made it a great ground attack A/C that could hold its own in a low altitude dogfight.


    JonnyS your up

    Robert.
    The three most useless things to a pilot, the sky above you, the runway behind you, and the fuel on the ground.

  13. #6663

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    RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz



    New clues:

    1. The skin of the aircraft included panels made from balsa wood sandwiched between aluminum or fiberglass outer skins.

    2. It had a bubble canopy.

  14. #6664
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    RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz

    Dehavilland Mosquito?
    Fleet Brotherhood #5
    Half A Wing, Three Engines and A Prayer

  15. #6665

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    RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz

    Not the Mosquito.

  16. #6666

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    RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz


    ORIGINAL: Luft-Gangster

    cfircav8r
    Right on the money.Β* C-130 with JATO assist as we called it back in the 70's.Β* Hercules or Herky Bird as those of us who served in the USAF refered to her as.
    Multi Purpose:
    Β*Β* Cargo ( palatized or rolling ) - carry airborne troops - Gun Ship (Black Bird or Puff the Magic Dragon) - and don't forger bomber.Β*(many instant Drop Zones were created by strapping a bomb to a standard 88''x108'' pallet, arming and dropping it out the back cargo door and instant DZ with no enemy.
    During the Easter Offensive of 1972 the flight engineer and loadmaster had the privelege of hanging through criss crossed tie-down strapes in the side jump doors and shooting flares accross the front of the path of SAM's fired at the aircraft.

    Well cfircav8r, I guess your up. Congratulations.
    Luft-Gangster, I don't really have anything to add except as noted by a previuos poster thanks for the detail.

    I missed benefiting from the use of the C-130 as a gunship, my only gunship experience being three instances when the C-47 versions were used. I recall being very happy that the gunship was there when needed, but less than happy at being at a place it was needed.

    jess

  17. #6667

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    RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz


    ORIGINAL: jessiej


    ORIGINAL: Luft-Gangster

    cfircav8r
    Right on the money. C-130 with JATO assist as we called it back in the 70's. Hercules or Herky Bird as those of us who served in the USAF refered to her as.
    Multi Purpose:
    Cargo ( palatized or rolling ) - carry airborne troops - Gun Ship (Black Bird or Puff the Magic Dragon) - and don't forger bomber.(many instant Drop Zones were created by strapping a bomb to a standard 88''x108'' pallet, arming and dropping it out the back cargo door and instant DZ with no enemy.
    During the Easter Offensive of 1972 the flight engineer and loadmaster had the privelege of hanging through criss crossed tie-down strapes in the side jump doors and shooting flares accross the front of the path of SAM's fired at the aircraft.

    Well cfircav8r, I guess your up. Congratulations.
    Luft-Gangster, I don't really have anything to add except as noted by a previuos poster thanks for the detail.

    I missed benefiting from the use of the C-130 as a gunship, my only gunship experience being three instances when the C-47 versions were used. I recall being very happy that the gunship was there when needed, but less than happy at being at a place it was needed.

    jess
    jessiej
    Only saw a C-130 as a gunship once in the spring of 72. I was at Camp Holloway in the central highlands by Pleacau (sp?) We were closing down the chopper repair facility there and shipping to Cam Ran Bay. A rocket was fired off the side of a hill at the Air Force base next door when just a few minutes later a 130 gun ship appeared. RRRUUUUUPPPPPP, an orange streak started out of the plane and appeared continuous all the way to the ground for just a few seconds. No more rockets were fired from the side of that hill. Glad he was on our side. A couple of nights later, I was about 100 yards from the ammo dump there when it blew up. Fourth of July fire works were never the same after that.

  18. #6668

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    RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz

    New clues:

    1. The skin of the aircraft included panels made from balsa wood sandwiched between aluminum or fiberglass outer skins.

    2. It had a bubble canopy.

    3. The company that built it had an internal competition to name the aircraft.

  19. #6669
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    RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz

    So far, I've only found some US test reports (late 1940s?) about aluminium skinned balsa structures...

  20. #6670
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    RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz

    De Havilland Hornet
    The three most useless things to a pilot, the sky above you, the runway behind you, and the fuel on the ground.

  21. #6671

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    RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz

    Not the Hornet.

    New clues:

    1. The skin of the aircraft included panels made from balsa wood sandwiched between aluminum or fiberglass outer skins.

    2. It had a bubble canopy.

    3. The company that built it had an internal competition to name the aircraft.

    4. It could retract the nose wheel and rest the nose on a small wheel attached by the ground crew, tilting the tail up so another aircraft could be pushed tightly in behind it to save space in the hangar.

  22. #6672
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    RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz

    OK heres a wild one...read somewhere recently that some jets were made partially out of wood composites..
    F-86 Sabre? ...jet family or prop family?
    Fleet Brotherhood #5
    Half A Wing, Three Engines and A Prayer

  23. #6673

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    RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz

    Not the F-86 family.

    New clues:

    1. The skin of the aircraft included panels made from balsa wood sandwiched between aluminum or fiberglass outer skins.

    2. It had a bubble canopy.

    3. The company that built it had an internal competition to name the aircraft.

    4. It could retract the nose wheel and rest the nose on a small wheel attached by the ground crew, tilting the tail up so another aircraft could be pushed tightly in behind it to save space in the hangar.

    5. It used a Westinghouse jet engine.

  24. #6674
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    RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz

    F-84 Thunderjet?
    Fleet Brotherhood #5
    Half A Wing, Three Engines and A Prayer

  25. #6675
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    RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz

    FJ 1 Fury
    Semper Fi
    Look towards the Horizon......your death awaits you there So Enjoy today ,,,,,,


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