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  1. #6851
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    RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz

    The Bell XP/YP/P-59 Aeracomet The first US built jet fighter
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  2. #6852

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    RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz

    [/quote]

    Kyushu Q1W

    Best Regards,
    =Adrian=

    [/quote]

    Indeed, Sir. Another impressive performance, my friend. The "lorna" was the first purpose built anti-submarine aircraft; built in response to the campaign of the US submarines which were systematically destroying the Japanese merchant marine fleet. . And, you get to ask the next question. Thanks; Ernie P.


    Question: What warbird do I describe?

    Clues:

    (1) This was the very first β€œpurpose built” aircraft ever designed to fulfill its specialized role.

    (2) Twin engine.

    (3) Ordered into production in 1942.

    (4) First delivery was in 1945.

    (5) The engines were rather low powered, which was just fine.

    (6) Top speed was pretty low as well; which again was just fine.

    (7) It looked a lot like the German Ju-88.

    (8) A crew of three.

    (9) Wingspan was 52 feet; length was 39 feet.

    (10) Empty weight was under 7,000 pounds.

    (11) It couldn’t climb to 15,000 feet; which was just fine.


    Answer: The Kyushu Q1W Tokai

    Kyushu Q1W Tokai Anti-Submarine Bomber (β€œLorna”).

    First purpose built anti-submarine aircraft
    Ordered in 1942, first delivered in January of 1945.
    Resembled the German Ju-88.


    The Imperial Japanese Navy ordered development of the KyΕ«shΕ« Q1W as the Navy Experimental 17-Shi Patrol Plane[1] in September 1942, and the first test flight took place in September 1943. It entered service in January 1945. The Q1W carried two low-power engines, allowing for long periods of low-speed flight, and was the first purpose-designed anti-submarine warfare aircraft in the world.

    General characteristics
    Crew: 3
    Length: 12.09 m (39 ft 8 in)
    Wingspan: 16.00 m (52 ft 6 in)
    Height: 4.12 m (13 ft 6 in)
    Wing area: 38.2 mΒ² (411 ftΒ²)
    Empty weight: 3,102 kg (6,839 lb)
    Loaded weight: 4,800 kg (10,580 lb)
    Max. takeoff weight: 5,318 kg (11,720 lb)
    Powerplant: 2 Γ— Hitachi Amakaze-31 9-cylinder radial engine, 455 kW (610 hp) each

    Performance
    Maximum speed: 322 km/h (200 mph)
    Range: 1,342 km (839 miles)
    Service ceiling: 4,490 m (14,730 ft)
    Rate of climb: 229 m/min (751 ft/min)
    Wing loading: 126 kg/mΒ² (26 lb/ftΒ²)
    Power/mass: 0.19 kW/kg (0.12 hp/lb)

    Armament
    1 Γ— flexible rearward-firing 7.7 mm Type 92 machine gun
    1 or 2 Γ— fixed forward-firing 20 mm Type 99 cannon sometimes fitted
    2 Γ— 250 kg (550 lb) bombs or depth charges
    Radar equipment
    Type 3 Model 1 MAD (KMX)
    Type 3 Ku-6 Model 4 Radar
    ESM Antenna equipment

  3. #6853

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    RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz

    OK - Here's another...

    1) Single engine

    2) Monoplane

    3) Bomber

    4) Less than 200 built

    5) Crew 2

    6) Entered service 1930's

    Best Regards,
    =Adrian=

  4. #6854
    MajorTomski's Avatar
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    RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz

    Well the less than 200 eliminates the Battle.
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  5. #6855

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    RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz

    Another clue today...

    1) Single engine

    2) Monoplane

    3) Bomber

    4) Less than 200 built

    5) Crew 2

    6) Entered service 1930's

    7) Some examples modified for (very) extended flight duration.

    Best Regards,
    =Adrian=
    [/quote]

  6. #6856
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    RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz


    ORIGINAL: adavis

    Another clue today...

    1) Single engine

    2) Monoplane

    3) Bomber

    4) Less than 200 built

    5) Crew 2

    6) Entered service 1930's

    7) Some examples modified for (very) extended flight duration.

    Best Regards,
    =Adrian=
    [/quote]
    The Vickers Wellesley

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vickers_Wellesley
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  7. #6857

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    RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz


    ORIGINAL: MajorTomski

    ORIGINAL: adavis

    Another clue today...

    1) Single engine

    2) Monoplane

    3) Bomber

    4) Less than 200 built

    5) Crew 2

    6) Entered service 1930's

    7) Some examples modified for (very) extended flight duration.

    Best Regards,
    =Adrian=
    The Vickers Wellesley

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vickers_Wellesley
    [/quote]


    Correct - Over to you...

    Best Regards,
    =Adrian=

  8. #6858
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    RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz

    Ok team for your late night sleeplessness please name for me an aircraft which:

    1 Twin engined

    2 High winged monoplane

    3 operated by 3 military services and also flown by civilians.
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  9. #6859
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    RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz

    Good morning one more clue

    Ok team for your late night sleeplessness please name for me an aircraft which:

    1 Twin engined

    2 High winged monoplane

    3 operated by 3 military services and also flown by civilians.

    4. The twin engines were mounted ABOVE the wing
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  10. #6860
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    RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz

    One for lunch time

    Ok team for your late night sleeplessness please name for me an aircraft which:

    1 Twin engined

    2 High winged monoplane

    3 operated by 3 military services and also flown by civilians.

    4. The twin engines were mounted ABOVE the wing

    5. The US Army Air Corps gave it two separate mission designators.
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  11. #6861
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    RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz

    Bueller?... Bueller?... Bueller?



    Ok team good morning again and please name for me an aircraft which:

    1 Twin engined

    2 High winged monoplane

    3 operated by 3 military services and also flown by civilians.

    4. The twin engines were mounted ABOVE the wing

    5. The US Army Air Corps gave it two separate mission designators.

    6. It became the FIRST successful 6-seat airliner for the company. In a bit of irony one of the civilian versions was owned by the founder of a competing aircraft company.
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  12. #6862

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    RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz

    ORIGINAL: MajorTomski

    Bueller?... Bueller?... Bueller?



    Ok team good morning again and please name for me an aircraft which:

    1 Twin engined

    2 High winged monoplane

    3 operated by 3 military services and also flown by civilians.

    4. The twin engines were mounted ABOVE the wing

    5. The US Army Air Corps gave it two separate mission designators.

    6. It became the FIRST successful 6-seat airliner for the company. In a bit of irony one of the civilian versions was owned by the founder of a competing aircraft company.

    Sorry; been away doing the life thing. How about the very first aircraft purchased to provide transport for the President of the United States; the Douglas C-21? Thanks; Ernie P.


    The Douglas C-21

    The Douglas Dolphin was an amphibious flying boat. While only 58 were built, they served a wide variety of roles: private "yacht," airliner, military transport, and search and rescue.

    The Dolphin originated in 1930 as the "Sinbad," a pure flying boat without wheels. The Sinbad was intended as a luxurious flying yacht. The Great Depression had curtailed demand for such extravagance, but Douglas managed to interest the United States Coast Guard who not only bought the Sinbad, but 12 Dolphins.

    Undaunted by the lack of demand, Douglas improved the Sinbad in 1931 so that it was amphibious, and could land on water or land. The improved aircraft was named "Dolphin", however this did not represent the end of development, as many detail improvements were made, including an increase in the length of over a foot and several changes were made to the empennage, engine nacelles and wings.

    The first two were purchased by Wilmington-Catalina Airlines to fly passengers between Los Angeles and Santa Catalina Island, becoming the first successful Douglas airliners. Subsequent examples were ordered by the United States Navy and US Coast Guard for use as transports and search and rescue craft. The US Army Air Corps ordered several under the designations C-21, C-26, and C-29. Many were eventually ordered for their original purpose as luxury transports. Owners included William Boeing, the founder of the Boeing Company, and Philip K. Wrigley, the son of the founder of the Wm. Wrigley Jr. Company. William K. Vanderbilt bought two with custom interiors for use from the Vanderbilt yacht Alva as flying tenders.

    One was procured by the US Navy as a transport for President Franklin D. Roosevelt. Although never used by Roosevelt, this was the first aircraft procured to provide transportation for the President of the United States.

  13. #6863
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    RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz

    Good first shot Ernie; Correct the Dolphin. You're up!
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  14. #6864

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    RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz


    ORIGINAL: MajorTomski

    Good first shot Ernie; Correct the Dolphin. You're up!
    Thank you, Sir. Without the clue about the engines being mounted *above* the wing, that would have been a very hard question to answer. Good one! I hope this is, as well. Thanks; Ernie P.


    Question: What warbird do I describe?

    Clues:

    (1) Saw combat in WWII.

    (2) Four engine.

  15. #6865
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    RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz


    ORIGINAL: Ernie P.



    Question: What warbird do I describe?

    Clues:

    (1) Saw combat in WWII.

    (2) Four engine.

    LOL, that limits us to about 30 or so choices
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  16. #6866
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    RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz

    I'll bite.

    Piaggio P 108
    In God I trust.
    All others pay cash.
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  17. #6867

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    RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz


    ORIGINAL: a65l

    I'll bite.

    Piaggio P 108
    Wow! I'm impressed. And now I’m worried. A651 seems to have figured out how I approach asking questions. Hmmm…. Okay; you nailed it a651; first shot out of the box. Great job of sleuthing! Take it away. Thanks; Ernie P.

    Question: What warbird do I describe?

    Clues:

    (1) Saw combat in WWII.

    (2) Four engine.

    (3) Four versions were actually designed, but only the bomber version was produced in more than a handful of numbers.



    Answer: The Piaggio P.108 Bombardiere.


    The Piaggio P.108 Bombardiere was the only Italian four-engine heavy bomber used by the Axis powers during World War II. The prototype first flew in 1939 and it entered service in 1941. It was one of a handful of Italian combat aircraft that could match the best manufactured by the Allies. Four versions of the P.108 were designed, but only one, the P.108B bomber, was produced in any quantity before the armistice. The other variants included the P.108A anti-shipping aircraft with a 102 mm (4 in) gun, the P.108C, an airliner with an extended wingspan and re-modelled fuselage capable of carrying 32 passengers, and the P.108T transport version designed specifically for military use. Only one P.108A and 24 P.108Bs were built. The combined total number of all versions (and prototypes) is 35. Most of the P.108Cs were subsequently modified for use as military transport aircraft and could accommodate up to 60 passengers. Nine P.108 Ts were used by Luftwaffe transport units until the end of the war.

  18. #6868

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    RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz

    Heads up, a651; you have the ball. Thanks; Ernie P.

  19. #6869

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    RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz

    Well, we appear to have lost touch with a651; it has been well over 24 hours and he hasn't responded to PMs and notices here. So, if any one has a question, please post it. First in line and all that. If no one responds by this evening, I'll post something. The floor is currently open. Thanks; Ernie P.

  20. #6870
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    RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz

    Sorry, working lots of days and lots of hours lately. I didn't expect to get it, my answer was a very broad shot in the dark, but one of the more obscure ones I knew of. I'll pass the ball, I won't be very connected for a few more days...

    And no worries Ernie, I haven't figured out your formula, it ws 50/50 between the P108 and another rather obscure 4 engined aircraft from a fellow axis power
    In God I trust.
    All others pay cash.
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  21. #6871

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    RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz


    ORIGINAL: a65l

    Sorry, working lots of days and lots of hours lately. I didn't expect to get it, my answer was a very broad shot in the dark, but one of the more obscure ones I knew of. I'll pass the ball, I won't be very connected for a few more days...

    And no worries Ernie, I haven't figured out your formula, it ws 50/50 between the P108 and another rather obscure 4 engined aircraft from a fellow axis power
    No sweat, a651; life gets busy sometimes. Anyone? Thanks; Ernie P.

  22. #6872

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    RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz

    Seeing no other offerings.... Thanks; Ernie P.


    Sometimes, things just don’t work out the way they should.

    QUESTION: What warbird do I describe?

    CLUES:

    (1) The specs called for a very fast airplane, and a very fast airplane was delivered.

    (2) It was noted for its very streamlined design.

    (3) The prototype set several international speed records.

  23. #6873

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    RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz

    starfighter

  24. #6874

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    RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz


    ORIGINAL: Ernie P.

    (1) The specs called for a very fast airplane, and a very fast airplane was delivered.

    (2) It was noted for its very streamlined design.

    (3) The prototype set several international speed records.
    Breda Ba.88

    Best Regrds,
    =Adrian=

  25. #6875

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    RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz


    ORIGINAL: adavis


    ORIGINAL: Ernie P.

    (1) The specs called for a very fast airplane, and a very fast airplane was delivered.

    (2) It was noted for its very streamlined design.

    (3) The prototype set several international speed records.
    Breda Ba.88

    Best Regrds,
    =Adrian=
    You nailed it, Adrian. Excellent job!! You have the conch shell. Take it away. The Breda Ba.88 was the single greatest failure of an operational aircraft in WWII; and probably in all of aviation history. Thanks; Ernie P.


    Sometimes, things just don’t work out the way they should.

    QUESTION: What warbird do I describe?

    CLUES:

    (1) The specs called for a very fast airplane, and a very fast airplane was delivered.

    (2) It was noted for its very streamlined design.

    (3) The prototype set several international speed records.

    (4) The problems started when the various military equipment was installed.

    (5) It started out quite heavy, and the situation got worse as military equipment was added.

    (6) Even worse, instability resulted with the additional equipment; and it was all downhill from there.

    (7) The weight problems came from the design of the fuselage.

    (8) Armament was impressive for its day.

    (9) The single tail was replaced by a twin tail, to give the rear gunner a better field of fire.

    (10) Less than six months into combat, the aircraft were being stripped of equipment and used as β€œdummies” around airports.

    (11) A second production run was made, mainly for political reasons; but most of the aircraft went straight to the scrap yard.

    (12) When serving in North Africa, several aircraft were incapable of taking off during the summer months.

    (13) When equipped with engine sand filters, many of the aircraft were unable to take off.

    (14) Probably the single greatest failure of any aircraft in the Second World War.

    (15) And yet, it was about the same weight, power and wingloading as the Me-110.


    ANSWER: The Breda Ba.88.

    The Breda Ba.88 Lince (Italian: Lynx) was a ground-attack aircraft used by the Italian Regia Aeronautica during World War II. Its streamlined design and retractable undercarriage were advanced for the time, and after its debut in 1937 the aircraft established several world speed records. However, when military equipment was installed on production examples, problems of instability developed and the aeroplane's general performance deteriorated. Eventually its operational career was cut short, and the remaining Ba.88 airframes were used as fixed installations on airfields to mislead enemy reconnaissance. It represented, perhaps, the most remarkable failure of any operational aircraft to see service in World War II.


    The Breda Ba.88 was designed to fulfill a 1936 requirement by the Regia Aeronautica for a heavy fighter bomber capable of a maximum speed of 530 km/h (329 mph) (more than that of any other aircraft existing or being planned at the time,), armament of 20 mm cannons and range of 2,000 km (1,240 mi). It first flew in October 1936. The project was derived from the aborted Ba.75 also designed by Giuseppe Panzeri and Antonio Parano.



    The Ba.88 was an all-metal, twin-engine, two-crew, high-speed monoplane, with a high-mounted wing. It employed a "concentric" fuselage design, with a framework of steel tubes and a metallic skin covering which was both streamlined (having a very small fuselage cross-section) and strong. However, this internal load-bearing structure was very complex and of outdated design, as monocoque designs were starting to be developed elsewhere. The internal struts resulted in excessive weight compounded by manufacturing delays. The narrow confines of the fuselage would require the Ba.88 to carry bombs in a semi-external structure, much to the detriment of the aircraft's aerodynamics. The all-metal wings had two longerons, and housed the engine nacelles, undercarriage main elements, and the majority of the 12 self-sealing fuel tanks (the only protective armour in the aircraft), providing a 1,586 L (419 US gal) total capacity. All three undercarriage units were retractable, which was unusual for the time.

    The aircraft was powered by two Piaggio P.XI air-cooled radial engines. They were of the same type as used in other projects such as the Re.2000, and drove two three-blade, continuous-speed 3.2 m (10.4 ft) diameter Breda propellers. The engine nacelles also carried the two main undercarriage units. It had a twin tail to provide the dorsal 7.7 mm (0.303 in) Breda-SAFAT machine gun with a better field of fire.

    As for armament, the aircraft had three nose-mounted 12.7 mm (0.5 in) Breda machine guns with 400, 450 and 400 rounds respectively. Another Breda (7.7 mm/0.303 in caliber, with 250-500 rounds) with a high arc of fire, was fitted in the rear cockpit and controlled by a complex motorised electrical system. A modern "San Giorgio" reflector gunsight was fitted, and there was even a provision to mount a 20 mm cannon instead of the central Breda-SAFAT machine gun in the nose. The payload was composed of three bombs of 50 kg (110 lb), 100 kg (220 lb) and 250 kg (550 lb), or a Nardi dispenser for 119 2 kg (4 lb) bomblets. All these weapons gave the Ba.88 impressive armament for its time.

    The forward pilot's cockpit was fully instrumented, with an airspeed indicator capable of reading to 560 km/h (350 mph), gyroscope and an altimeter (useful to 8,000 m/26,250 ft).


    Testing and evaluation

    Despite its structural weight liabilities, the single-tailed prototype set a speed record over a 100 km (60 mi) circuit on 3 February 1937 by reaching 518 km/h (322 mph), taking the record away from France. Another record was obtained on 10 April 1937 when it achieved 475 km/h (295 mph) over 1,000 km (620 mi). Piloted by Furio Niclot Doglio, the Ba.88 prototype had two 671 kW (900 hp) Isotta-Fraschini K 14 engines. This record speed was increased to 554 km/h (344 mph) when the modified prototype, using a double tail, was re-equipped with the definitive engines; the 746 kW (1,000 hp) Piaggio P.XI-RC40s. This time it broke German records in a 100 km (60 mi) stage at an average speed of 554.4 km/h/344.5 mph (with 1,000 kg/2,200 lb load) on 5 December 1937. Finally on 9 December 1937, another world record was set when averaging 524 km/h (326 mph) over 1,000 km (621 mi) with a 1,000 kg (2,200 lb) load.

    The Ba.88 had all the design specifications to be a very effective heavy fighter-bomber. It had a slim, streamlined shape (noted by all aviation observers), a rugged structure, heavy firepower, long range and high speed, with the same horsepower of medium bombers such as the Br.20 (but at 9 tonnes/10 tons vs. 5 tonnes/6 tons). Despite its promising beginning, the addition of military equipment in the production series aircraft resulted in high wing loading and detrimental aerodynamic effects with a corresponding loss of performance, below any reasonable level. The contract was subsequently canceled, but production was later resumed, mostly for political reasons to avoid closing production lines of Breda and its satellite company IMAM.[


    Production

    Production numbers of the first series (production started in 1939) were 81 machines (MM 3962-4042) made by Breda, and 24 by IMAM (MM 4594-4617). The first series included eight trainers, with an elevated second pilot's seat. This was one of the few combat aircraft to have a dedicated trainer version, but it was not enough to prevent the overall failure of the programme.

    The second series totalled 19 Breda (4246-4264) and 24 IMAM (MM:5486-5509) machines fitted with small engine cowling rings. There was a limited evolution in this series, with the second series mainly being sent straight to the scrapyard.


    Operational history

    Two Gruppi (Groups) were equipped with the Breda Ba.88 on June 1940, operating initially from Sardinia against the main airfield of Corsica, with 12 aircraft on 16 June 1940 and three on 19 June 1940. The crews soon found that the Bredas were extremely underpowered and lacked agility, but the lack of fighter opposition resulted in them being able to perform their missions without losses.

    Later, 64 aircraft became operational serving 7imo Gruppo in the North African Theatre with 19imo stationed in Sardinia, but their performance remained extremely poor resulting in the 7imo Gruppo being grounded from the end of June until September, when the Italian offensive against British forces started. Of three aircraft used, one was not even capable of taking off, and another could not turn and was forced to fly straight from their base at Castelvetrano to Sidi Rezegh.

    With anti-sand filters fitted, a maximum horizontal speed of 250 km/h (155 mph) was reported in some cases and several units were even unable to take off at all. These machines were fitted with "Spezzoniera" Nardi dispensers (with 119 kg/262 lb bomblets), 1,000 rounds for the three 12.7 mm (0.5 in) machine guns and 500 rounds for the 7.7 mm (0.303 in) Bredas. Although the weapons were not loaded to full capacity and the aircraft was lightened by eliminating the rear machine gun, observer, bombs and some fuel, lessening the weight did not substantially affect the aircraft's performance. Such attempts to reduce weight failed to achieve positive results.

    By mid-November, just five months after the start of the war on 10 June 1940, most surviving Ba.88s had been phased out as bombers and stripped of useful equipment, and were scattered around operational airfields as decoys for attacking aircraft. This was a degrading end for the new, (theoretically powerful) Breda Ba.88.[3] This action forced the Regia Aeronautica to use totally outdated aircraft in North Africa, such as the Breda Ba.65 and Fiat C.R.32. As an additional problem, Regia Aereonautica remained without any suitable heavy fighter, a notable weakness for a major air arm.

    Similar "heavy fighter-zerstorer" projects were developed in several countries. In France, the Breguet Br.690 even with only 1,044 kW (1,400 hp) was more capable than the Ba.88. Despite some problems of reliability, the Br.690 showed a practical usefulness that the Breda never achieved. It is notable that the Ba.88 was also a contemporary of the Messerschmitt Bf 110, with no great differences in hp, weight, P/W ratio or wingload. But the difference in success was immensely in the Bf 110's favour.

    Niclot was the only pilot capable of flying this machine at its best (and only in the racer version which was much lighter), while the average pilot was not capable of using it effectively. Despite its impressive world records and aggressive, slim shape, the Ba.88 was a failure and totally unable to undertake combat missions. Its structure was too heavy, wing loading too high, and the engines were quite unreliable with insufficient power. The Piaggio P.XI was quite powerful, but never reliable, leading also to the overall failure of the Reggiane Re.2000. (Hungary substituted the engines with similar ones for the first license-produced examples).

    Three Ba.88s were modified by Agusta plant in late 1942, to serve as ground-attack aircraft. These aircraft, denominated Ba.88M' had a wingspan increased by 2 meters (6 ft 6Β½ in) to alleviate wingloading problems and dive brakes. They had Fiat A.74 RC.38 engines, while nose armament was now four 12,7 mm (o,5 in) Breda-SAFAT machine guns. They were evaluated at Guidonia. They were delivered to the 103Β° Gruppo Autonomo Tuffatori, at Lonate Pozzolo, on 7 September 1943, the day before Italian Armistice. They were evaluated by Luftwaffe pilots and that was the last heard of this unsuccessful aircraft.


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