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  1. #9276

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    Quote Originally Posted by zippome View Post
    How about the Arsenal VG-33?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenal_VG-30_-_39

    Thanks,
    Zip
    Several countries, including most of the major combatants, looked at developing “emergency fighter aircraft”, built from non-strategic materials, prior to WWII. Look up the SAI.207 or the XP-77 in Wikipedia. Look at the bottom of the page under “comparable aircraft”. You’ll see the Caudron C.714 listed, along with a few other choices. If you check out the C-714, you’ll all the C.710 series aircraft listed, including the Arsenal VG-30 (which derived the VG-33) and the Bloch MB-700. Several of you were all over it from the beginning; you just overlooked one of the clues. Thanks; Ernie P.

    Caudron C.714

    The C.710 were a series of light fighter aircraft developed by Caudron-Renault for the French Armιe de l'Air just prior to the start of World War II. One version, the C.714, saw limited production, and were assigned to Polish pilots flying in France after the fall of Poland in 1939. A small number were also supplied to Finland.

    The original specification that led to the C.710 series was offered in 1936 in order to quickly raise the number of modern aircraft in French service, by supplying a "light fighter" of wooden construction that could be built rapidly in large numbers without upsetting the production of existing types. The contract resulted in three designs, the Arsenal VG-30, the Bloch MB-700, and the C.710. Prototypes of all three were ordered.


    Among the numerous projects for combat aircraft developed in France in the years immediately prior to the conflict, those designed by the Arsenal de I'Aeronautique beginning in 1936, stand out from the rest. The aim was to develop a monoplane fighter of rather modest size and weight, and several prototypes were prepared. Among these, the VG-33 was the only one to go into production, on the basis of an order that foresaw the completion of no fewer than 820. In practice, however, at the time of the German invasion, only 160 were on the assembly line in various stages of completion and only a dozen or so were ready to fly. During official flight testing, the performance of this small, all-wood fighter proved to be admirable, in spite of the rather limited power (860 hp) of its engine, especially in terms of speed, at times reaching 347 mph (558 km/h).

    The VG-33 derived directly from the VG-30 model, the first of the series. This project, presented in mock-up form in the summer of 1936, made its maiden flight at Villacoublay on October 1, 1938, and proved to be faster than the Morane Saulnier M.S.405. The development phase continued with the designing of the VG-31 model, characterized by reduced wing surface area, and of the VG-32, with a return to the original wing size and in which it was planned to install an American Allison V-1710-C15 engine, generating 1,054 hp (786 kw) and fitted with a supercharger. These prototypes were followed by the first VG-33, marked by a return to the original Hispano-Suiza 12Y 31 engine. The aircraft was tested in flight in the spring of 1939, and official tests began on August 11. The Arsenal fighter was a low-wing, single-seater aircraft with retractable landing gear. It was quite light and compact, but heavily armed with a 20 mm cannon and four 7.5 mm (0.295 in) machine guns in the wings.

    While production of the VG-33 was launched at the Chantiers Adro-Maritimes de la Seine at Sartrouville, Arsenal went ahead with, the development phase of the project, with the aim of improving its potential still further. In the spring of 1940, a prototype appeared, designated VG-34 and provided with a 910 hp Hispano-Suiza engine: this aircraft reached a maximum speed of 327 n (575 km/h) at an altitude of 20,395 ft (6,200 m). The subsequent VG-35 prototype was characterized by even more powerful engine, while the radiator and landing gear of the VG-36 w modified. The final model was the VG-39, provided with a 1,280 hp (955 kw) Hispano-Suiza 12Z engine and characterized by its redesigned wing, capable of carrying armament consisting of six mach guns. Production programs were also prepared for this variant which was to be powered by a 1,600 hp (1194 kw) engine in the final series. The German invasion put a stop to the project.

    Specifications (Arsenal VG-33)
    Type: Single Seat Fighter

    Design: Arsenal de I'Aeronautique

    Manufacturer: Arsenal de I'Aeronautique

    Powerplant: One 860 hp (642 kw) Hispano-Suiza 12Y 31 12-cylinder inverted Vee, liquid cooled, piston engine.

    Performance: Maximum speed 347 mph (558 km/h) at 17,060 ft (5200 m); service ceiling 36,090 ft (11000 m).

    Range: 745 miles (1200 km) with internal fuel stores.

    Weight: Empty 4,520 lbs (2050 kg) with a maximum take-off weight of 5,856 lbs (2656 kg).

    Dimensions: Span 35 ft 5 in (10.80 m); length 28 ft 4 in (8.64 m); height 10 ft 10 in (3.30 m); wing area 150.64 sq ft (14.00 sq m).

    Armament: One 20 mm Hispano-Suiza cannon firing through the propeller hub, plus four 7.5 mm (0.295 in) MAC machine guns.

    Variants:VG-30 (prototype), VG-31 (reduced wing size), VG-32 (original wing size and an Allison engine), VG-33 (production). The VG-34, 35 and 36 were prototypes with more powerful engines and the VG-39bis would have been a production model with a 1600 hp (1194 kw) Hispano-Suiza 12Z engine. But these plans never materialized.

    Operators: France.


    The original C.710 model was an angular design developed from an earlier series of air racers. One common feature of the Caudron line was an extremely long nose that set the cockpit far back on the fuselage. The profile was the result of using the 336 kW (450 hp) Renault 12R-01 12-cylinder inline engine, which had a small cross-section and was fairly easy to streamline, but very long. The landing gear was fixed and spatted, and the vertical stabilizer was a seemingly World War I-era semicircle instead of a more common trapezoidal or triangular design. Armament consisted of a 20 mm Hispano-Suiza HS.9 cannon under each wing in a small pod.
    The C.710 prototype first flew on 18 July 1936. Despite its small size, it showed good potential and was able to reach a level speed of 470 km/h (292 mph) during flight testing. Further development continued with the C.711 and C.712 with more powerful engines, while the C.713 which flew on 15 December 1937 introduced retractable landing gear and a more conventional triangular vertical stabilizer.
    The final evolution of the 710 series was the C.714 Cyclone, a variation on the C.713 which first flew in April 1938 as the C.714.01 prototype. The primary changes were a new wing airfoil profile, a strengthened fuselage, and instead of two cannons, the fighter had four 7.5 mm MAC 1934 machine guns in the wing gondolas. It was powered by the newer 12R-03 version of the engine, which introduced a new carburettor that could operate in negative g.

    The Armιe de l'Air ordered 20 C.714s on 5 November 1938, with options for a further 180. Production started at a Renault factory in the Paris suburbs in summer 1939[2]
    Other projected versions were the C.720 trainer with a 75 or 164 kW (100 or 220 hp) engine, the C.760 fighter with a 559 kW (750 hp) Isotta-Fraschini Delta engine, and the C.770 fighter with an 597 kW (800 hp) Renault V-engine. None of these reached production.


    The Arsenal VG-33 was one of a series of fast French light fighter aircraft under development at the start of WWII, but which matured too late to see extensive service in the Armιe de l'Air during the Battle of France.


    Bloch MB-700

    In 1936, the Ministere de l'Air established a requirement for a lightweight fighter of wooden construction which resulted in the development of the Arsenal VG 30, the Caudron C 713 and the Bloch 700. The last-mentioned type, designed by Andre Herbemont, who had been responsible for the Bleriot SPAD fighter series, was built at the former Bleriot-Aeronautique plant at Suresnes which had been incorporated in the Societe Nationale de Construction Aeronautiques du Sud-Ouest (SNCASO) on 1 January 1937, under the directorship of Marcel Bloch. Of stressed-skin construction, the Bloch 700 was powered by a Gnome-Rhone 14 M614-cylinder radial engine offering 700hp for take-off and had provision for two 20mm Hispano-Suiza 404 cannon and two 7.5mm MAC 1934 M39 machine guns. The sole prototype was destroyed at Buc after capture by German forces.

  2. #9277

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    What I find to be really interesting, considering Germany's experience with the WWI blockade, is that the United States, Britain, Australia, France, Japan, even Italy, considered building "emergency fighters" in the event they were cut off from strategic war materials. Only Germany seems to have ignored that possibility; at least until 1944 or so. Thanks; Ernie P.
    Last edited by Ernie P.; 01-28-2014 at 07:14 AM.

  3. #9278
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    Wow, that was a great quiz. I can't say that I've seen one so far that has stumped me so well and had me doing so much research. I tell you the one clue that kept stumping me every time. I thought I would have every thing else covered and then I would hit the wood skin and I would be back at square one. You get a well deserved pat on the back for that quiz as it was quit informative and I learned a lot about a lot of different planes as I researched this one. Good job!!!

    Ken
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  4. #9279
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    I was so close... arrggghhhhh!

    Got the country right at least. Very interesting and suspensful..
    Sorry I'm late dear, I had to help my uncle Jack off his horse.

    Revver Bro #231

  5. #9280
    zippome's Avatar
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    I love all the information Ernie provides on these aircraft! Thanks Ernie! Now, let's see what I can dig up.
    Thanks,
    Zip

  6. #9281
    zippome's Avatar
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    Ok guys, here goes....

    1. Two engines.
    2. Two wings
    3. 3 vertical stabilizers.
    4. Crew of 1.

    Ok, that should set the ball rolling.
    Thanks,
    Zip

  7. #9282

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    Miles M.39B Libellula?

    Best Regards,
    =Adrian=

  8. #9283
    zippome's Avatar
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    Wow! That didn't take long! And here I thought I was being vague! Lol! You're up adavis!

  9. #9284

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    Quote Originally Posted by zippome View Post
    I love all the information Ernie provides on these aircraft! Thanks Ernie! Now, let's see what I can dig up.
    Thanks,
    Zip

    Why thank you, kind Sir; Ernie P.

  10. #9285
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    Quote Originally Posted by zippome View Post
    Wow! That didn't take long! And here I thought I was being vague! Lol! You're up adavis!
    He probably read a primer on every warplane in existence from 1910 - 1950 during the search for obscure subjects that resulted in the VG-33 question..
    Sorry I'm late dear, I had to help my uncle Jack off his horse.

    Revver Bro #231

  11. #9286

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    Adrian; you are up and your question is due. Thanks; Ernie P.

  12. #9287

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    Sorry about the delay. Been a bit busy...

    I'll post another question soon.

    Best Regards,
    =Adrian=

  13. #9288

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    I think most of the regulars here will agree that it is becoming increasingly difficult to find suitable candidates for the quiz. I've put a good few hours into this and have, so far, drawn a blank. I have some other tasks that I need to spend some time on, so I am hoping that somebody will be able to jump in...

    In future I promise not to put forward any answers until I have a new quiz ready - how ever tempting it may be!!!

    Sorry guys.

    Best Regards,
    =Adrian=

  14. #9289
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    Geez, come on, we're only on page 372!

    I'd be nervous about posting a quiz, because I sure as heck ain't going to read through 370 pages to see if something was already posted. I guess a search would work, so long as the name or designation is spelled the same. But I'll see what I can come up with.
    Sorry I'm late dear, I had to help my uncle Jack off his horse.

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  15. #9290

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    Quote Originally Posted by adavis View Post
    I think most of the regulars here will agree that it is becoming increasingly difficult to find suitable candidates for the quiz. I've put a good few hours into this and have, so far, drawn a blank. I have some other tasks that I need to spend some time on, so I am hoping that somebody will be able to jump in...

    In future I promise not to put forward any answers until I have a new quiz ready - how ever tempting it may be!!!

    Sorry guys.

    Best Regards,
    =Adrian=
    Guys;

    The floor is open. I have a few questions ready to go, but I'll wait until this evening to see if any one else would like to take the lead. Thanks; Ernie P.

  16. #9291

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    Guys;

    I have to go out of town on Thursday, through Sunday. I would be happy to furnish some one with a suitable subject matter for a question, if they will take the lead. Thanks; Ernie P.

  17. #9292

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    All;

    We've been at dead stop for over six days. Rather than see the malaise continue, I'll post a question with the understanding I will be unavailable Friday and Saturday. Thanks; Ernie P.

    In the air battles over Dunkirk, this first showed its value.

    Question: What warbird equipment do I describe?

    Clues:

    (1) The original design was obtained by England in 1938; but an improved version became available in mid 1940.

  18. #9293

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    Afternoon clue. Thanks; Ernie P.


    Question: What warbird equipment do I describe?

    Clues:

    (1) The original design was obtained by England in 1938; but an improved version became available in mid 1940.

    (2) The design was later copied, and simplified, by the United States.

  19. #9294

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    Hispano 20mm cannon?

  20. #9295

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyS View Post
    Hispano 20mm cannon?
    No; not the Hispano 20mm cannon, but not a bad guess. The cannon armed Spit's and Hurri's were just coming on line late in the BoB. But here's a night clue to assist your search. Thanks; Ernie P.


    Question: What warbird equipment do I describe?

    Clues:

    (1) The original design was obtained by England in 1938; but an improved version became available in mid 1940.

    (2) The design was later copied, and simplified, by the United States.

    (3) The English then altered their design to copy the American improvements.

  21. #9296

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ernie P. View Post
    No; not the Hispano 20mm cannon, but not a bad guess. The cannon armed Spit's and Hurri's were just coming on line late in the BoB. But here's a night clue to assist your search. Thanks; Ernie P.


    Question: What warbird equipment do I describe?

    Clues:

    (1) The original design was obtained by England in 1938; but an improved version became available in mid 1940.

    (2) The design was later copied, and simplified, by the United States.

    (3) The English then altered their design to copy the American improvements.

    Sounds like you might be looking for Radar
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  22. #9297

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    Quote Originally Posted by 70 ragtop View Post
    Sounds like you might be looking for Radar

    Excellent answer, but not the answer I seek. Maybe this will help. Thanks; Ernie P.


    Question: What warbird equipment do I describe?

    Clues:

    (1) The original design was obtained by England in 1938; but an improved version became available in mid 1940.

    (2) The design was later copied, and simplified, by the United States.

    (3) The English then altered their design to copy the American improvements.

    (4) This design initially increased the effectiveness of the Spit’s and Hurri’s; but was later used by almost all English aircraft.

  23. #9298

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    Just a guess: floatless carburetor?
    Al Gunn
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  24. #9299

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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Gunn View Post
    Just a guess: floatless carburetor?
    No; not the floatless carburetor; nor is it Miss Tilly's diaphram (already used that one). But a good guess. Thanks; Ernie P.


    All;

    When searching for an answer, I often come across things I didn't know. And that's where I get a lot of my questions. I figure if I didn't know it, maybe others don't either. Anything that catches my interest, I go looking and turn it into a question. Thanks; Ernie P.

  25. #9300

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    A bonus clue for participation. Thanks; Ernie P.


    Question: What warbird equipment do I describe?

    Clues:

    (1) The original design was obtained by England in 1938; but an improved version became available in mid 1940.

    (2) The design was later copied, and simplified, by the United States.

    (3) The English then altered their design to copy the American improvements.

    (4) This design initially increased the effectiveness of the Spit’s and Hurri’s; but was later used by almost all English aircraft.

    (5) As a confusing cover story, it was called by the name of the original inventor.


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