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Old 10-22-2018, 07:56 PM
  #16476  
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I did say that I revised it on post 16472, when I discovered I had misread my source
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Old 10-22-2018, 08:00 PM
  #16477  
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Originally Posted by Hydro Junkie View Post
I did say that I revised it on post 16472, when I discovered I had misread my source
Understood. All my fault. I was away from home when you posted your revision; and I just looked at the new clues from the latest post when I got back. Thanks; Ernie P.
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Old 10-23-2018, 08:59 AM
  #16478  
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Probably not the plane you’re thinking of, but I’ll throw it out there anyway: Avro Canada CF-100 Canuck.
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Old 10-23-2018, 09:37 AM
  #16479  
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And we have a winner. It was the CF-100 Canuck.
And now, with most of the clues high-lited, just a bit of history:
The Avro Canada CF-100 "Canuck" marked the first indigenously designed, developed, and serially produced military fighter to emerge from Canada(clue 1). It arrived at a time when the jet age was dawning on the world of military aviation and added a potent interception capability to the West. The new jet enhanced Canadian interception responses to incursions by Soviet bombers and bolstered NORAD (NORth American Air Defense Command) with the United States and NATO forces in Europe. One of the chief success stories of the Canadian aero industry during the Cold War, the CF-100 went on to be produced in no fewer than 692 total examples and, for a time, stocked Belgian forces overseas into the 1960s.
A two-seat fuselage was adopted which partnered a pilot and navigator with a two-engine jet layout(clue 4) was to provide the necessary power - the latter a design trait common to all early generation turbojet aircraft. The engine of choice became the British Rolls-Royce Avon RA.3 turbojet developing 6,500lbf of thrust to which the XC-100 was finalized by John "Jack" Frost into the CF-100 we recognize today. Other participants in the program held backgrounds from such storied British aviation concerns as de Havilland, Hawker Siddeley, and Gloster which helped ensure the program stayed on its legs. The end-product became CF-100 Mk 1 and two of this model were used to fulfill the prototype testing role. First flight was on January 19th, 1950.
Engineers devised a standard aircraft configuration with their CF-100 initiative. The cockpit, seating two in tandem, fell behind a short nose cone assembly to house a radar suite. The fuselage was long and tubular for the necessary fuel stores, avionics, and internal structure. The wings were straight appendages mounted at midships and each held its own tubular engine nacelle running ahead of the leading edge past the wing trailing edges. This provided good clearance from nearly all angles and directed wash well away from the fuselage and tail unit. The tail unit incorporated a single vertical tail fin with mid-mounted horizontal planes(clue 3, a design feature used on the Gloster Meteor). The tricycle undercarriage was wholly retractable and provided high ground clearance during ground running, take-off, and landing.
Work on the program continued until ten preproduction CF-100 Mk 2 machines arrived including two dual-control versions, designated Mk 2T, to serve as trainers. For the Mk 2, the Avro Orenda turbojet replaced the original British Avons series. This engine was first run in 1949 and would go on to power the Canadair CL-13 "Sabre" fighters(clue 2) (Canadian variants of the famous American F-86 line) with total production of these powerplants reaching 4,000 units by the end - providing much skilled experience in the design, development, and manufacture of turbojet technology for Canadian industry.
The initial production-quality, all-weather interceptor form became the CF-100 Mk 3 and the design now incorporated a battery of 8 x 0.50 caliber heavy machine guns in a ventral belly pack with the APG-33 series interception radar in the nose cone. Seventy examples of this mark were built with service entry officially beginning in 1953. The Mk 3A was powered by Orenda 2 series turbojet engines and 21 aircraft were produced as such. The Mk 3B was outfitted with Orenda 8 series turbojet engines and 45 aircraft followed this mold. A sole Mk 3 airframe was converted as a dual-control trainer and served under the Mk 3CT designation until redesignated as the Mk 3D later on.
Back in 1952, a pre-production prototype pulled from the Mk 3 stock served as the Mk 4 variant and went airborne for the first time. The Mk 4 brought along an inherent rocket-firing capability through wingtip pods and the more powerful APG-40 radar system(clue 6) would serve on this type. The wingtip pods fired up to 29 "Mighty Mouse" air-to-air rockets (58 rockets combined)(clue 5) while the original machine gun armament was retained in these forms as backup. The broadened capabilities of the Mk 4 were such that the outstanding order of original Mk 3 interceptors was revised to incorporate at least 54 of the Mk 4 standard models. The Mk 4A was outfitted with Orenda 9 turbojet engines and 137 examples followed. The Mk 4B incorporated Orenda 11 engines and 141 aircraft were manufactured.
Attempting to push the endurance of the CF-100 line as a high-altitude, long-range interceptor, the Mk 5 was born in a further 332 examples. These were powered by either Orenda 11 or Orenda 14 turbojet engines, included enlarged wing surfaces, and lost their machine gun belly armament as a weight-saving measure
The CF-100 acted across thirteen total RCAF squadrons throughout its service tenure. For its time, the line provided an excellent rate-of-climb for interception duties and held a short take-off capability, allowing it to use very little field and operate in more remote, small airstrip areas. CF-100s served alongside American F-86s, F-89s, and F-94s as the early group of airmen and aircraft charged with protection of North American airspace. At one point, the CF-100 was briefly considered by the United States Air Force (USAF) to fulfill a growing all-weather reconnaissance need in the Korean War (1950-1953), the call eventually falling to the English Electric "Canberra" which emerged in the American inventory as the Martin B-57 "Canberra". At least fifty-three Mk 5 interceptors were sold to the Belgian Air Force and served from 1957 to 1964(clue 7) across all-weather interception wings 11, 349, and 350. Canadian CF-100s were succeeded in service by the American McDonnell CF-101 "Voodoo" high performance interceptor where it was adopted as the "CF-101".

Now, with all that cut and pasted,
CF-105, YOU'RE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Last edited by Hydro Junkie; 10-23-2018 at 11:38 AM.
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Old 10-23-2018, 04:31 PM
  #16480  
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Yikes! I was fishing for more clues, not a win

let me put my thinking cap on. Would like to find a happy medium between my precious two contributions.

in the meantime, some addition info on the “Clunk”, as the CF-100 was affectionately (?) known: they soldiered on in other roles: at least one was used as a test bed for both the Sparrow 2 and Velvet Glove AAM programs. Their final role I believe was as electronic warfare aircraft for exercises. The last of them finally retired from service in the 1980’s. The early Mk.5’s were converted from Mk.4 airframes. These are easily distinguished by the wing extensions, which are constant chord on my he conversions.
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Old 10-24-2018, 04:52 AM
  #16481  
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Sorry to disappoint you. To be honest, I was expecting it to go another day or two myself. Guess that's what I get for thinking
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Old 10-24-2018, 08:14 AM
  #16482  
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Okay, let’s give this a try. looking for an aircraft:

1 - This aircraft was one of those designs that looked good on paper, but didn’t quite deliver in reality.
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Old 10-24-2018, 08:42 AM
  #16483  
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How about the F-104 Starfighter? It was fast and small but it was short ranged and not really very maneuverable due to it's small wings
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Old 10-24-2018, 08:56 AM
  #16484  
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Or the Bf-110 (Me-110); which was a great design when it was first produced, but was slow and awkward by the time it first got into combat. A great plane, actually; but it wasn't exactly a nimble fighter. Or maybe the British WWI B.E. 2c; which was designed specifically to be very stable and easy to control, to aid in observation work; literally flying itself and leaving the pilot time to look around at what was happening on the ground. Unfortunately, it also couldn't get out of the way when German planes started shooting at it. Literally, a flying target. Boy; this could be a very long list. Thanks; Ernie P.
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Old 10-24-2018, 12:40 PM
  #16485  
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None of the above, but all interesting aircraft. Bonus clue though!

1 - This aircraft was one of those designs that looked good on paper, but didn’t quite deliver in reality.

2 - Not to say it was a complete turkey. In fact in one early deployment it achieve spectacular results.
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Old 10-24-2018, 05:15 PM
  #16486  
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Boulton Paul Defiant?
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Old 10-25-2018, 06:27 AM
  #16487  
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Originally Posted by Top_Gunn View Post
Boulton Paul Defiant?
Winner!

Designed as a "bomber destroyer", the idea was the Defiant would deploy with Hurricanes or Spitfires to protect them from enemy fighters. From the research I've done, I don't think that tactic was ever actually employed. They had their best success over Dunkirk, when they shot down 37 enemy planes in two sorties - actually setting an RAF record for the most air to air victories in a day.

Apparently pilots enjoyed flying the Defiant (although perhaps not so much in combat). I doubt the air gunners were as happy - they had to wear a special "slipper suit" that included their parachute in order to squeeze into their turret. And should they have to bail out, they exited through a circular hatch in the bottom of the aircraft (not unlike early versions of the F-104 I suppose!).

The belief that the Defiant had no forward firing weapons wasn't exactly correct. The turret could traverse 360 degrees, and there was provision for the pilot to fire the guns should the gunner be incapacitated. In fact, one former Defiant crewmember stated that the procedure for the air gunner, should he be wounded, was the lock the turret in the forward position and switch firing control to the pilot before becoming incapacitated (somehow I doubt that ever worked in combat!). However the pilot had no gunsight, and the guns were elevated at an angle (13 degrees I think?), so hitting anything would be more luck than anything.

Boulton Paul also pitched a more conventional version that eliminated the turret and moved the guns to the wings. However by this time Hurricane and Spitfire production had built up enough that it wasn't needed.
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Old 10-26-2018, 04:33 AM
  #16488  
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OK, here's another name-the-pilot quiz. His name is far from being a household word, but he was very well known in his day.

1. The highest-scoring ace of his service, the highest-scoring ace ever born in what is now a particular country (though it was part of a different country when he was born), and possibly the highest scoring ace in one particular sort of aircraft, though there are no solid statistics about that.
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Old 10-26-2018, 04:42 AM
  #16489  
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Originally Posted by Top_Gunn View Post
OK, here's another name-the-pilot quiz. His name is far from being a household word, but he was very well known in his day.

1. The highest-scoring ace of his service, the highest-scoring ace ever born in what is now a particular country (though it was part of a different country when he was born), and possibly the highest scoring ace in one particular sort of aircraft, though there are no solid statistics about that.
Al; it almost sounds as though you are describing Richthofen, although I somehow doubt the answer is quite that simple. Richthofen was born in Prussia (now part of Poland) and is probably the highest scoring Albatros pilot (somewhere around 50; less than the normally ascribed 60, because he occasionally flew the Pfaltz). Thanks; Ernie P.
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Old 10-26-2018, 05:35 AM
  #16490  
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How about Godwin von Brumowski?
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Old 10-26-2018, 05:41 AM
  #16491  
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Originally Posted by Ernie P. View Post
Al; it almost sounds as though you are describing Richthofen, although I somehow doubt the answer is quite that simple. Richthofen was born in Prussia (now part of Poland) and is probably the highest scoring Albatros pilot (somewhere around 50; less than the normally ascribed 60, because he occasionally flew the Pfaltz). Thanks; Ernie P.
Yeah, but Richthofen's name is "familiar in [our] mouth[s] as household words." This pilot's name isn't, though a quick check shows that he has Wikipedia pages in English, German, French, Italian, Spanish, Hungarian, Polish, and Croatian, so somebody knows about him.
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Old 10-26-2018, 05:51 AM
  #16492  
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Not Brumowski, but an excellent guess. Here's your bonus clue.

A name-the-pilot quiz. His name is far from being a household word, but he was very well known in his day.

1. The highest-scoring ace of his service, the highest-scoring ace ever born in what is now a particular country (though it was part of a different country when he was born), and possibly the highest scoring ace in one particular sort of aircraft, though there are no solid statistics about that.

2. After the war, he lived in two countries which had been on the side against which he had fought.
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Old 10-26-2018, 10:21 AM
  #16493  
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Originally Posted by Top_Gunn View Post
Not Brumowski, but an excellent guess. Here's your bonus clue.

A name-the-pilot quiz. His name is far from being a household word, but he was very well known in his day.

1. The highest-scoring ace of his service, the highest-scoring ace ever born in what is now a particular country (though it was part of a different country when he was born), and possibly the highest scoring ace in one particular sort of aircraft, though there are no solid statistics about that.

2. After the war, he lived in two countries which had been on the side against which he had fought.
Well, Belgium is still around; although the Kingdom Of Belgium isn't, as such. If you stretch that point, Willy Coppens would appear to fit the other clues. And the plane would be the Hanriot HD.1. Thanks; Ernie P.


Answer: Willy Coppens

Willy Omer François Jean baron Coppens de Houthulst (6 July 1892 – 21 December 1986) was Belgium's leading fighter ace and the champion "balloon buster" of World War I. He was credited with 37 confirmed victories and six probables.

The Hanriot HD.1 was a French World War I single-seat fighter aircraft. Rejected for service with French squadrons in favour of the SPAD S.7, the type was supplied to the Belgian and the Italian air forces with whom it proved highly successful. Of a total of about 1,200 examples built, 831 were in fact produced by Italian companies under licence.
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Old 10-26-2018, 11:29 AM
  #16494  
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Coppens isn't a bad guess, but I think our pilot is less well known than Coppens is. Here's another bonus clue.

A name-the-pilot quiz. His name is far from being a household word, but he was very well known in his day.

1. The highest-scoring ace of his service, the highest-scoring ace ever born in what is now a particular country (though it was part of a different country when he was born), and possibly the highest scoring ace in one particular sort of aircraft, though there are no solid statistics about that.

2. After the war, he lived in two countries which had been on the side against which he had fought.

3. He claimed a larger number of unconfirmed victories than confirmed ones. The unusually high ratio of unconfirmed to confirmed victories was probably attributable to the fact that he flew many of his missions unaccompanied by other aircraft.

Last edited by Top_Gunn; 10-26-2018 at 11:35 AM.
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Old 10-26-2018, 07:56 PM
  #16495  
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Well, how about Rene Fonck? And the plane would be the SPAD XII. Thanks; Ernie P.
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Old 10-27-2018, 04:12 AM
  #16496  
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Less well-known than Fonck, as well, I think. Here's this morning's clue, and a few additional words for Clue No. 1.

A name-the-pilot quiz. His name is far from being a household word, but he was very well known in his day.

1. The highest-scoring ace of his service, the highest-scoring ace ever born in what is now a particular country (though it was part of a different country when he was born), and possibly the highest scoring ace in one particular sort of aircraft, though there are no solid statistics about that. I have deliberately used the word "sort" in the previous sentence to avoid using a technical term. I have in mind something a little broader than "class," and much broader than "type." I don't know what specific airplane or airplanes he flew.

2. After the war, he lived in two countries which had been on the side against which he had fought.

3. He claimed a larger number of unconfirmed victories than confirmed ones. The unusually high ratio of unconfirmed to confirmed victories was probably attributable to the fact that he flew many of his missions unaccompanied by other aircraft.

4. He was awarded a medal which, at the time, had been given to only one other person who was not a general.

Last edited by Top_Gunn; 10-27-2018 at 04:31 AM.
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Old 10-27-2018, 04:44 AM
  #16497  
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Originally Posted by Top_Gunn View Post
Less well-known than Fonck, as well, I think. Here's this morning's clue, and a few additional words for Clue No. 1.

A name-the-pilot quiz. His name is far from being a household word, but he was very well known in his day.

1. The highest-scoring ace of his service, the highest-scoring ace ever born in what is now a particular country (though it was part of a different country when he was born), and possibly the highest scoring ace in one particular sort of aircraft, though there are no solid statistics about that. I have deliberately used the word "sort" in the previous sentence to avoid using a technical term. I have in mind something a little broader than "class," and much broader than "type." I don't know what specific airplane or airplanes he flew.

2. After the war, he lived in two countries which had been on the side against which he had fought.

3. He claimed a larger number of unconfirmed victories than confirmed ones. The unusually high ratio of unconfirmed to confirmed victories was probably attributable to the fact that he flew many of his missions unaccompanied by other aircraft.

4. He was awarded a medal which, at the time, had been given to only one other person who was not a general.
Now that last clue tickles something in my memory. I remember reading about that, but.... Maybe a few more cups of coffee. Thanks; Ernie P.
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Old 10-27-2018, 08:52 AM
  #16498  
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Originally Posted by Top_Gunn View Post
Less well-known than Fonck, as well, I think. Here's this morning's clue, and a few additional words for Clue No. 1.

A name-the-pilot quiz. His name is far from being a household word, but he was very well known in his day.

1. The highest-scoring ace of his service, the highest-scoring ace ever born in what is now a particular country (though it was part of a different country when he was born), and possibly the highest scoring ace in one particular sort of aircraft, though there are no solid statistics about that. I have deliberately used the word "sort" in the previous sentence to avoid using a technical term. I have in mind something a little broader than "class," and much broader than "type." I don't know what specific airplane or airplanes he flew.

2. After the war, he lived in two countries which had been on the side against which he had fought.

3. He claimed a larger number of unconfirmed victories than confirmed ones. The unusually high ratio of unconfirmed to confirmed victories was probably attributable to the fact that he flew many of his missions unaccompanied by other aircraft.

4. He was awarded a medal which, at the time, had been given to only one other person who was not a general.
Okay; I'm finally fully awake now. I kept thinking about aces from countries that ceased to exist after WWI. The problem was, that list is kind of confusing and hard to search. And I finally put that with the idea of men who flew flying boats. Clue (4) rang a bell and I started looking until I found what I was looking for. I read about him a few years ago. Apparently, he deserved credit for many of the "unconfirmed" claims. After the war, a search of then enemy records often matched his claims. Thanks; Ernie P.


Answer: Gottfried Freiherr von Banfield

Gottfried Freiherr von Banfield (6 February 1890 – 23 September 1986) was the most successful Austro-Hungarian naval aeroplane pilot in the First World War. He was known as the 'Eagle of Trieste' and was the last person in history to wear the Military Order of Maria Theresa. He may have been the only flying ace who flew a flying boat to five or more victories.
Wartime experience



At the start of the First World War, Banfield was posted to fly the Lohner flying boat E.21 allocated to the pre-dreadnought battleship SMS Zrínyi for aerial reconnaissance. He took part in the first aerial actions against Montenegro from the base of Cattaro. In the period following he worked as a test pilot and instructor at the airfield on the island of Santa Catarina off Pola. Once the Italians entered the war he was commissioned with building up a larger seaplane station near Trieste, and after its completion was named as its commanding officer. He retained his command until the end of the war. He won his first air-battles in a Lohner biplane seaplane against the Italians and their French allies in the gulf of Trieste in the month of June 1915, downing a balloon on the 27th. Even coming up against his old teacher Jean-Louis Conneau (better known as André Beaumont) in September 1915. Experimenting with a monoplane seaplane early in 1916, he won many victories and for a time held first place among the Austrian aces. He was wounded in combat in 1918.
Decorations and military tally



Banfield's 9 confirmed and 11 unconfirmed air-kills make him the most successful Austro-Hungarian naval airplane fighter, and he holds a place among the most successful flying aces of Austro-Hungary. It was because he made most of his expeditions over the northern Adriatic, and therefore many of his attributed air-victories could not be confirmed, that accounts for his high tally of unconfirmed air-conquests. For his military services he was in 1916 decorated with the Large Military Merit Medal with Swords. Founded on 1 April 1916, this honour was intended for the "highest especially praiseworthy recognition" and was awarded only 30 times. 28 of its recipients were officers of general's rank; the other two were the cryptologistHermann Pokorny (1918) and Banfield himself. On 17 August 1917 Banfield was further honoured when he received the Military Order of Maria Theresa. Individuals who received the order and were not already members of the Austrian nobility were ennobled and received the hereditary title of 'Freiherr', meaning 'Baron' to their family name. At the time of his death in 1986, Freiherr von Banfield was the last living Knight of the Military Order of Maria Theresa.


Il Barone at Trieste

After the First World War, the city of Trieste was annexed by Italy, and Freiherr von Banfield was for a time imprisoned by the occupation police. In 1920 he emigrated to England and became a British subject. He married the Contessa Maria Tripcovich of Trieste (d. 1976). They settled in Newcastle-upon-Tyne, where their son Raphael Douglas, known to the world as the composer Raffaello de Banfield Tripcovich, was born in 1922. In 1926, Gottfried took Italian nationality and returned to Trieste to become Director of the Diodato Tripcovich and Co. Trieste Shipping-Company, which he took over from his father-in-law. Trieste Company ships then sailed under the Italian flag. Banfield became a celebrity of the city, usually called "Our Baron", Il nostro Barone] even winning a local tennis championship in 1927. Serving as the Honorary Consul of France at Trieste, he was decorated with the Legion d'Honneur in 1977. Freiherr von Banfield died in Trieste 23 September 1986, at the age of 96.

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Old 10-27-2018, 11:59 AM
  #16499  
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It is indeed Banfield; well done. Interestingly, his German-language Wikipedia page gives him the "Freiherr" (roughly "Baron" in English) title only from 1917 to 1919, perhaps on the theory that when Austria-Hungary dissolved its titles vanished with it.

He was born in a city that was then in Croatia but is now in Montenegro, making him, according to Wikipedia, the only ace born in that country (i.e. Montenegro). Not that this matters at all.

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Old 10-27-2018, 04:15 PM
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And away we go. Thanks; Ernie P.


What warbird do I describe?

1. This aircraft was originally designed to serve one purpose, but wound up serving several.
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