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Old 06-14-2019, 11:36 AM
  #17251  
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Anyone up for an afternoon clue? This clue should really help you guys focus in on what airplane I selected.

I am looking for an airplane.

1. This aircraft was built by the producer of a famous fighter.
2. The subject aircraft was designed after the war the fighter served in.
3. The subject aircraft was designed in such away it could be sold to civilians as well as be attractive for military use.
4. This aircraft shared a feature with the most popular variant of the famous fighter.
5. This aircraft was manufactured by the original company for the military and manufacture by multiple companies for civilian use.
6. The military version was only used by two countries.
7. The subject aircraft was designed more than decade before the DH Twin Otter (Elmshoot's guess).
8. The airplane is an unarmed single engine mono-coupe.
9. The airplane is four seater.
10. A one off prototype of this aircraft was built to compete in the procurment process for a new Air Force trainer but loss to a very famous trainer popular with a lot of R/C scale builders.
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Old 06-14-2019, 12:49 PM
  #17252  
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Originally Posted by FlyerInOKC View Post
Anyone up for an afternoon clue? This clue should really help you guys focus in on what airplane I selected.

I am looking for an airplane.

1. This aircraft was built by the producer of a famous fighter.
2. The subject aircraft was designed after the war the fighter served in.
3. The subject aircraft was designed in such away it could be sold to civilians as well as be attractive for military use.
4. This aircraft shared a feature with the most popular variant of the famous fighter.
5. This aircraft was manufactured by the original company for the military and manufacture by multiple companies for civilian use.
6. The military version was only used by two countries.
7. The subject aircraft was designed more than decade before the DH Twin Otter (Elmshoot's guess).
8. The airplane is an unarmed single engine mono-coupe.
9. The airplane is four seater.
10. A one off prototype of this aircraft was built to compete in the procurment process for a new Air Force trainer but loss to a very famous trainer popular with a lot of R/C scale builders.
I know you guys don't want me back up again. But, I'm thinking you're going for a small ground rodent popular in comic books and cartoons. Thanks; Ernie P.



Answer: Chipmunk?

The de Havilland Canada DHC-1 Chipmunk is a tandem, two-seat, single-engined primary trainer aircraft developed and manufactured by Canadian aircraft manufacturer de Havilland Canada. It was developed shortly after the Second World War and sold heavily throughout the immediate post-war years, being typically employed as a replacement for the de Havilland Tiger Mothbiplane.

The North American Aviation T-28 Trojan is a piston-engined military trainer aircraft used by the United States Air Force and United States Navy beginning in the 1950s. Besides its use as a trainer, the T-28 was successfully employed as a counter-insurgency aircraft, primarily during the Vietnam War. It has continued in civilian use as an aerobatics and Warbird performer.
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Old 06-14-2019, 12:58 PM
  #17253  
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Sorry Ernie it's not the Chipmunk, this one sits 4 persons.
I am looking for an airplane.

1. This aircraft was built by the producer of a famous fighter.
2. The subject aircraft was designed after the war the fighter served in.
3. The subject aircraft was designed in such away it could be sold to civilians as well as be attractive for military use.
4. This aircraft shared a feature with the most popular variant of the famous fighter.
5. This aircraft was manufactured by the original company for the military and manufacture by multiple companies for civilian use.
6. The military version was only used by two countries.
7. The subject aircraft was designed more than decade before the DH Twin Otter (Elmshoot's guess).
8. The airplane is an unarmed single engine mono-coupe.
9. The airplane is four seater.
10. A one off prototype of this aircraft was built to compete in the procurement process for a new Air Force trainer but loss to a very famous trainer popular with a lot of R/C scale builders..
11. The aircraft had retractable tricycle gear.
12. The feature mention in clue # 4 would be loss in later civilian models and the aircraft would eventually seat a total of 5.
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Old 06-15-2019, 04:25 AM
  #17254  
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Navion
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Old 06-15-2019, 05:20 AM
  #17255  
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Originally Posted by elmshoot View Post
Navion
DING! DING! DING! We have a wiener! And my future project!Ryan Navion

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Jump to searchNavionClick image for larger version

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ID:	2264642Portland International Jetport, 2004.RoleLight fixed-wing aircraftManufacturerNorth American Aviation
Ryan Aeronautical
Tusco Corp.Introduction1948StatusActivePrimary usersUnited States Military
Private ownersNumber built2,634[1]VariantsCamair Twin Navion
Temco D-16
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Navion with a Continental IO-520 engine.
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Navion with canopy opened
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Ryan Navion at Delta Air Park 1988
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Navion G Rangemaster registered in France with modified fin and other enhancements
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A factory restored 1947 North American Navion[2]The Ryan (originally North American) Navion is a United States single-engine, unpressurized, retractable gear, four-seat aircraft originally designed and built by North American Aviation in the 1940s. It was later built by Ryan Aeronautical Company and the Tubular Steel Corporation (TUSCO). The Navion was envisioned as an aircraft that would perfectly match the expected postwar boom in civilian aviation, since it was designed along the general lines of, and by the same company which produced the North American P-51 Mustang.Contents
Design and development[[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ryan_Navion&action=edit&section=1]edit]

The Navion was originally designed at the end of World War II by North American Aviation as the NA-143 (but produced under the NA-145 designation).[3] It was designed for the civilian market but also attracted the interest of the United States Army Air Forces. The Army Air Force ordered 83 of the NA-154 version, designated the L-17A, to be used as a liaison aircraft, personnel and cargo carrier, and trainer for the university-based Reserve Officers Training Corps flight training program, 35 of which were later converted to L-17C standard by the Schweizer Aircraft Company by fitting them with L-17B model features such as an auxiliary fuel tank.

Ryan Aeronautical Company acquired the design in 1948, and built approximately 1,200 examples over the following three years. Ryan designated the aircraft the Navion A with a 205 hp (153 kW) Continental E-185-3 or -9 and, later, the Navion B with 260 hp (194 kW) engines of either the Lycoming GO-435-C2, or optionally the Continental IO-470 engine. The "Navion A" became the basis for the military L-17B.

A single prototype Navion Model 72 was developed to compete for the US Air Force trainer aircraft procurement that was awarded to Beechcraft and resulted in the T-34. The prototype featured two-seat side-by-side seating, and twelve windows intended to be replaced with a bubble canopy.[4] The Model 72 was not mass-produced but, was instead, used as flying test bed for future modifications to the Navion line.[[i]citation needed]

TUSCO took over production of the Navion in the mid-1950s, manufacturing D, E and F models with a variety of enhancements including tip tanks and flush rivets. Navion Rangemaster aircraft were manufactured from 1961 to 1976. Their production followed that of earlier canopy-model Navion aircraft. In addition to the 39.5-gallon (150 litre) main fuel tanks, the Rangemasters added tip tanks with 34 gallons (128 l) each. The total fuel capacity of 107.5 gallons (407 l) gave these Navions the range for which they are named. TUSCO also introduced the Navion Rangemaster G model in 1960, which incorporated all previous advancements, replaced the Navion's sliding canopy with a side door, enlarged the cabin, created five separate seats, and standardized use of tiptanks and larger, late-model Continental engines. An H Model was produced as well, very nearly the same as the G Model except for a few minor enhancements. The last few Navions were manufactured (all H Models) by Navion Aircraft Company during a short production run ending in 1976 during one of several attempts to restore the airplane to commercial viability.Operational history[[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ryan_Navion&action=edit&section=2]edit]

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Ryan L-17B Navion on USS Leyte (CV-32), 1950.Pre-World War II, light civilian aircraft such as the Piper J-3 Cub and Aeronca Champion typically were made of wood or steel-tube fuselages with wooden wings. These pre-war designs were also marketed after the war, but did not sell well. While Republic offered an amphibious aircraft, the Seabee, Cessna offered the 195, and Beechcraft offered by far the most successful type Bonanza, which remains in production in 2019. All of these aircraft, including the Navion were significantly more advanced than prewar civilian aircraft and they set the stage for aircraft built from aluminum sheets riveted to aluminum formers. It was thought that wartime pilots would come home and continue flying with their families and friends under more peaceful conditions, but the postwar boom in civilian aviation did not materialize to the extent the manufacturers envisioned.[5]

Sales of the Navion were helped by the visibility of several celebrities who flew them, including Veronica Lake, Arthur Godfrey, Mickey Rooney and Bill Cullen. Retired Utah Senator Jake Garn is a current Navion owner.Present day[[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ryan_Navion&action=edit&section=3]edit]

As of 2010, many Navions are still flying and there is an active Navion owners community. On 18 March 2003 Sierra Hotel Aero Inc of South St. Paul, Minnesota purchased the type certificate,[6] design data, molds and tooling. Company stated in January 2013, that it was two to three years away from bringing the aircraft back into production.[7] In the meantime Sierra Hotel Aero is carrying out re-manufacturing and upgrading for some owners of Navions.[8]

A pair of highly modified Navions were flown by Princeton University as the Variable-Response Research Aircraft (VRA) and the Avionics Research Aircraft (ARA).[9] The VRA was given a pair of vertical side-force-generating surfaces mounted midway between wing roots and tips and a digital fly-by-wire (DFBW) control system, first installed in 1978, that parallels the standard Navion's mechanical control system and the fast-acting wing flaps that produce negative as well as positive lift. With these, the VRA can simulate the motions of other aircraft types through independent, closed-loop control of all the forces and moments acting on the airplane. Having completed over 20 years of research at Princeton University's Flight Research Laboratory, the VRA and its sister ship, the Avionics Research Aircraft (which is virtually identical to the VRA but does not have side-force panels) currently are owned and operated by the University of Tennessee Space Institute .Variants[[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ryan_Navion&action=edit&section=4]edit]

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North American L-17A, flown by the Commemorative Air Force, Camarillo Airport.
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A twin Navion conversionNorth American NA-143Two prototypes.[10]North American NA-145 NavionNorth-American-built production aircraft, 1027 built.[10]North American NA-154 NavionMilitary version for the United States Army as the L-17A, 83 built.[10]Ryan NavionRyan-built production aircraft, 600 built.[10]
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1947 Navion ARyan Navion AImproved Navion with a 205hp Continental E-185-9 engine, 602 built.[10]
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1950 Ryan Navion BRyan Navion BModified for the higher powered 260hp Lycoming GO-435-C2 engine, also known as the Super Navion 260, 222 built.[10]Tusco Navion DConversion by Tulsa Manufacturing Company with a 240hp Continental IO-470-P engine and tip tanks.[10]Tusco Navion EConversion Tulsa Manufacturing Company with a 250hp Continental IO-470-C engine and tip tanks.[10]Tusco Navion FConversion Tulsa Manufacturing Company with a 260hp Continental IO-470-H engine and tip tanks.[10]Navion G RangemasterRedesigned aircraft by Navion Aircraft Company with 260hp Continental IO-470H engine, integral cabin and tip tanks, 121, some built as the Rangemaster G-1 with a modified fin.[10]Navion H RangemasterNavion G with a 285hp Continental IO-520B engine, 60 built, an additional aircraft was built by the Navion Rangemaster Aircraft Company in 1974.[10]Ryan Model 72One Navion B was modified as two-seat trainer for a United States Navy competition with the Temco Model 33 Plebe.[10]
Camair Twin Naviontwin engine conversion Camair 480, 2 Continental O-470-B, 240 hp each. Camair 480C, 2 Continental IO-470- 260 hp each. 25+- built.X-16 Bi-NavionOne twin-engined (130hp Lycomings) prototype designed and built by Dauby Equipment Company in 1952, production by Riley and later by Temco.[10]Temco Riley 55Initial version of the twin engined Navion conversion.[[i]citation needed]D-16 Twin NavionProduction version of the X-16 with two 150hp Lycoming O-320 engines and strengthened wings, 19 conversions by Riley and 46 by Temco.[10]
Temco D-16AImproved D-16 conversion with two 170hp Lycoming O-340-A1A engines, nacelle tanks and 20 gallon each tip tanks, 144 gallons fuel total. 45 conversions.[10]Military[[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ryan_Navion&action=edit&section=5]edit]

L-17AMilitary designation for NA-154s delivered to the United States Army, 83 built, re-designated U-18A in 1962.[10]QL-17ASix L-17As modified by TEMCO as remote-controlled drones for the United States Air Force.[10]L-17BMilitary designation for Ryan-built Navion As delivered to the U.S.Army, 163 built, re-designated U-18B in 1962.[10]L-17CL-17As modified by Ryan with improved brakes and increased fuel capacity, 35 modified, re-designated U-18C in 1962.[10]XL-17DThree former XL-22As for evaluation.[10]XL-22ATwo Ryan-built Navion Bs for the U.S.Army, re-designated XL-17D.[10]U-18AFormer L-17As re-designated in 1962.[10]U-18BFormer L-17Bs re-designated in 1962.[10]U-18CFormer L-17Cs re-designated in 1962.[10]Operators[[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ryan_Navion&action=edit&section=6]edit]

Civil[[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ryan_Navion&action=edit&section=7]edit]

The Navion is popular with private individuals and companies.Military[[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ryan_Navion&action=edit&section=8]edit]

Name:  23px-Flag_of_the_United_States.svg.png
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Data from Jane's All The World's Aircraft 1951–52[14]

General characteristics
  • Crew: 1
  • Capacity: 3 passengers
  • Length: 27 ft 6 in (8.38 m)
  • Wingspan: 33 ft 5 in (10.19 m)
  • Height: 8 ft 8 in (2.64 m)
  • Wing area: 184 sq ft (17.1 m2)
  • Empty weight: 1,930 lb (875 kg)
  • Gross weight: 2,850 lb (1,293 kg)
  • Fuel capacity: 40 US gal (33 imp gal; 150 L)
  • Powerplant: 1 Lycoming GO-435-C2 air-cooled flat-six engine, 260 hp (190 kW) (take-off power)
Performance
  • Maximum speed: 174 mph (280 km/h; 151 kn)
  • Cruise speed: 170 mph (274 km/h; 148 kn)
  • Range: 595 mi (517 nmi; 958 km)
  • Service ceiling: 18,000 ft (5,500 m)
  • Rate of climb: 1,250 ft/min (6.4 m/s)
  • Take-off run: 400 ft (120 m)
  • Landing run: 468 ft (143 m)
See also[[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ryan_Navion&action=edit&section=10]edit]

Aircraft of comparable role, configuration and eraRelated lists
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Old 06-15-2019, 12:56 PM
  #17256  
Ernie P.
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Originally Posted by elmshoot View Post
Navion
Whew! Good job, Sparky. Thanks; Ernie P.
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Old 06-15-2019, 06:35 PM
  #17257  
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Originally Posted by Ernie P. View Post
Whew! Good job, Sparky. Thanks; Ernie P.
He figured you needed a break Ernie. I wasn't sure I was going to get the last one you posted.
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Old 06-16-2019, 02:09 AM
  #17258  
Ernie P.
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Originally Posted by FlyerInOKC View Post
He figured you needed a break Ernie. I wasn't sure I was going to get the last one you posted.
For which I am grateful, Sir. Do you know how hard it is to come up with 60+ clues without totally giving away the answer? Actually, I think we're all having difficulty coming up with new subjects. We long ago passed the point at which all the "common" or well known subjects have been used. I'm looking forward to seeing what Sparky comes up with for his next question. Still, I do learn a lot here. Thanks; Ernie P.
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Old 06-16-2019, 04:58 AM
  #17259  
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Yes, it is hard to come up with something new without repeating.
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Old 06-16-2019, 12:01 PM
  #17260  
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Well I just kept having a nagging feeling it was something more common and the Navion came to light. I think i read some where that Charles Lindberg was given one and he told North American he wanted to pay them at least what it cost them to produce....
that price was more than they were selling them for!

Lurkers this is your chance to jump in.... You have until Midnight Monday EDST to post your clue! Jump in!

Sparky
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Old 06-16-2019, 10:25 PM
  #17261  
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I've got a subject but not the time to run a quiz. If someone is interested in taking this one, give me a yell
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Old 06-17-2019, 05:29 AM
  #17262  
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Default Walt Musciano Navion

Since we probably won't have a new subject until tomorrow and I have already posted the plans and article I thought I would add the some pictures of the canopy and cowl that came in last week. Don't let the cowl size compared to the canopy fool you I can fit an old split case Super Tigre .61 or a Saito .80 sitting sideways inside the cowl. Granted the Saito does touch the side when centered. Yep, the canopy is that big! What did they use the bubble top of the P-51D?






Last edited by FlyerInOKC; 06-17-2019 at 05:31 AM.
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Old 06-17-2019, 05:49 AM
  #17263  
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Looks like they used a variation of the D/H/K Mustang canopy as a pattern for the Navion. You can definitely see the family resemblance in the tail structure
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Old 06-17-2019, 07:20 AM
  #17264  
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Well both the Navion and the P-51 were designed by North American so I'm sure they tried to recycle existing parts to cut the final cost. The Navion Rangemaster dumped the canopy and went to a more conventional cabin in 1960. I think it made it look more like a Beechcraft or a Piper. It did up the seating capacity to 5 so that was a help.
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Old 06-17-2019, 03:22 PM
  #17265  
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Originally Posted by Hydro Junkie View Post
I've got a subject but not the time to run a quiz. If someone is interested in taking this one, give me a yell
Sir; if no one steps forward, I'll take it; assuming Sparky can't run it. I have a subject plane though, so you can save your subject for another time. Thanks; Ernie P.

Last edited by Ernie P.; 06-17-2019 at 03:25 PM.
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Old 06-17-2019, 03:24 PM
  #17266  
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Originally Posted by elmshoot View Post
Well I just kept having a nagging feeling it was something more common and the Navion came to light. I think i read some where that Charles Lindberg was given one and he told North American he wanted to pay them at least what it cost them to produce....
that price was more than they were selling them for!

Lurkers this is your chance to jump in.... You have until Midnight Monday EDST to post your clue! Jump in!

Sparky
Sparky; if you need a pinch hitter, let me know. Thanks; Ernie P.
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Old 06-18-2019, 07:32 PM
  #17267  
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Originally Posted by Ernie P. View Post
Sparky; if you need a pinch hitter, let me know. Thanks; Ernie P.
Sparky? Thanks; Ernie P.
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Old 06-19-2019, 04:25 AM
  #17268  
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All;

If Elmshoot doesn't post his question by this evening, I'll post a question until we can re-establish contact with him. Thanks; Ernie P.
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Old 06-19-2019, 06:29 AM
  #17269  
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OK No lurkers want to play. I did a search for the name on this thread and it didn't show up so I'm hopeful that this isn't a repeat.

1. Airplane
2. less than 25 produced
3. Built for one country but subsequently sold to another country when expectations and mission changed.
4. It could carry more than the pilot
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Old 06-19-2019, 08:55 AM
  #17270  
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I would have thrown something out, not going to be able to get on the "web" for a while so...........................
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Old 06-19-2019, 07:46 PM
  #17271  
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1. Airplane
2. less than 25 produced
3. Built for one country but subsequently sold to another country when expectations and mission changed.
4. It could carry more than the pilot
5. The airplane MFG only made 4 different designs. One is quite recognizable (500+) and our Quiz subject is similar in configuration.
6. If you flew this plane it would require a special endorsement to pilot.
7. Unlikely it carried its full compliment of PAX in a combat role.
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Old 06-20-2019, 06:22 AM
  #17272  
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1. Airplane
2. less than 25 produced
3. Built for one country but subsequently sold to another country when expectations and mission changed.
4. It could carry more than the pilot
5. The airplane MFG only made 4 different designs. One is quite recognizable (500+) and our Quiz subject is similar in configuration.
6. If you flew this plane it would require a special endorsement to pilot.
7. Unlikely it carried its full compliment of PAX in a combat role. Correction it did carry at least one other crew member so 2 souls on board when in combat.
8. When in combat there was no indication there was any threat from enemy airplanes.
9, Only forward firing ordinance apparently was rockets.
10. It would fit in my T-hangar but the door wouldn't close all the way, too long for a standard T-Hangar.
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Old 06-20-2019, 07:05 PM
  #17273  
elmshoot
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1. Airplane
2. less than 25 produced
3. Built for one country but subsequently sold to another country when expectations and mission changed.
4. It could carry more than the pilot
5. The airplane MFG only made 4 different designs. One is quite recognizable (500+) and our Quiz subject is similar in configuration.
6. If you flew this plane it would require a special endorsement to pilot.
7. Unlikely it carried its full compliment of PAX in a combat role. Correction it did carry at least one other crew member so 2 souls on board when in combat.
8. When in combat there was no indication there was any threat from enemy airplanes.
9, Only forward firing ordinance apparently was rockets.
10. It would fit in my T-hangar but the door wouldn't close all the way, too long for a standard T-Hangar.
11. American MFG
12. Equipped with small bombs by today's std.
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Old 06-23-2019, 06:36 PM
  #17274  
elmshoot
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Sorry to be gone. I was doing NMPRA pylon racing in Baldwin MI. I didnt do so well. My racing buddy won 424 on Sunday. Then flew home 3.4 hours to avoid a 10 hour drive.
1. Airplane
2. less than 25 produced
3. Built for one country but subsequently sold to another country when expectations and mission changed.
4. It could carry more than the pilot
5. The airplane MFG only made 4 different designs. One is quite recognizable (500+) and our Quiz subject is similar in configuration.
6. If you flew this plane it would require a special endorsement to pilot.
7. Unlikely it carried its full compliment of PAX in a combat role. Correction it did carry at least one other crew member so 2 souls on board when in combat.
8. When in combat there was no indication there was any threat from enemy airplanes.
9, Only forward firing ordinance apparently was rockets.
10. It would fit in my T-hangar but the door wouldn't close all the way, too long for a standard T-Hangar.
11. American MFG
12. Equipped with small bombs by today's std.
13. The Company didn't last and the largest production airplane was tried to put back into production after ownership changing hands numerous times, latest attempt 2004
14. The CIA was investigated as possibly trying to put the original company out of business but never went any where.
15. "Conventional"
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Old 06-23-2019, 07:13 PM
  #17275  
Ernie P.
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Originally Posted by elmshoot View Post
Sorry to be gone. I was doing NMPRA pylon racing in Baldwin MI. I didnt do so well. My racing buddy won 424 on Sunday. Then flew home 3.4 hours to avoid a 10 hour drive.
1. Airplane
2. less than 25 produced
3. Built for one country but subsequently sold to another country when expectations and mission changed.
4. It could carry more than the pilot
5. The airplane MFG only made 4 different designs. One is quite recognizable (500+) and our Quiz subject is similar in configuration.
6. If you flew this plane it would require a special endorsement to pilot.
7. Unlikely it carried its full compliment of PAX in a combat role. Correction it did carry at least one other crew member so 2 souls on board when in combat.
8. When in combat there was no indication there was any threat from enemy airplanes.
9, Only forward firing ordinance apparently was rockets.
10. It would fit in my T-hangar but the door wouldn't close all the way, too long for a standard T-Hangar.
11. American MFG
12. Equipped with small bombs by today's std.
13. The Company didn't last and the largest production airplane was tried to put back into production after ownership changing hands numerous times, latest attempt 2004
14. The CIA was investigated as possibly trying to put the original company out of business but never went any where.
15. "Conventional"
I'm sure there's a story behind those five sentences. I, for one, wouldn't mind hearing a bit more of the back scatter. Thanks; Ernie P.
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