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Old 07-10-2019, 05:14 AM
  #17326  
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Originally Posted by elmshoot View Post
Pby-4
Not the PBY-4 elmshoot but a good early try! I award you a morning clue plus a bonus clue.

I'm looking for an infamous warbird.

1. This airplane's roots started out with an unusual specification.
2. The service leadership had second thoughts and the design was modified to drop this specification but the initial prototype kept an unusual tail feature.
3. The initial order was for 3 prototypes and each one was sufficiently different due to changing specifications to cause a change in name. (And I thought I my specs was wishy washy!)
4. This airplane was armed.
5. The first three aircraft produced under the production order were used as prototypes (bringing the number of prototypes to six) because the airplanes role changed from it's initial specification.
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Old 07-10-2019, 08:42 AM
  #17327  
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I'm going to be away from the computer this afternoon so I thought I would post another clue to give you all something to chew on.
I'm looking for an infamous warbird.
1. This airplane's roots started out with an unusual specification.
2. The service leadership had second thoughts and the design was modified to drop this specification but the initial prototype kept an unusual tail feature.
3. The initial order was for 3 prototypes and each one was sufficiently different due to changing specifications to cause a change in name. (And I thought I my specs was wishy washy!)
4. This airplane was armed.
5. The first three aircraft produced under the production order were used as prototypes (bringing the number of prototypes to six) because the airplanes role changed from it's initial specification.
6. The aircraft is a single seater.
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Old 07-10-2019, 07:16 PM
  #17328  
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Check back I see we have no nominationed aircraft so let's add a clue.

I'm looking for an infamous warbird.
1. This airplane's roots started out with an unusual specification.
2. The service leadership had second thoughts and the design was modified to drop this specification but the initial prototype kept an unusual tail feature.
3. The initial order was for 3 prototypes and each one was sufficiently different due to changing specifications to cause a change in name. (And I thought I my specs was wishy washy!)
4. This airplane was armed.
5. The first three aircraft produced under the production order were used as prototypes (bringing the number of prototypes to six) because the airplanes role changed from it's initial specification.
6. The aircraft is a single seater.
7. The aircraft was powered by two engines from a well known manufacturer still a major producer in industry.
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Old 07-11-2019, 05:49 AM
  #17329  
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Sorry guys I almost forgot the morning clue! This one should act as a flashing light.
I'm looking for an infamous warbird.

1. This airplane's roots started out with an unusual specification.
2. The service leadership had second thoughts and the design was modified to drop this specification but the initial prototype kept an unusual tail feature.
3. The initial order was for 3 prototypes and each one was sufficiently different due to changing specifications to cause a change in name. (And I thought I my specs was wishy washy!)
4. This airplane was armed.
5. The first three aircraft produced under the production order were used as prototypes (bringing the number of prototypes to six) because the airplanes role changed from it's initial specification.
6. The aircraft is a single seater.
7. The aircraft was powered by two engines from a well known manufacturer still a major producer in industry.
8. This airplane had only one production run and suffered a high loss rate. More than 50% were loss in accidents.
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Old 07-11-2019, 08:44 AM
  #17330  
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Afternoon clue and one bonus. I'm looking for an infamous warbird.

1. This airplane's roots started out with an unusual specification.
2. The service leadership had second thoughts and the design was modified to drop this specification but the initial prototype kept an unusual tail feature.
3. The initial order was for 3 prototypes and each one was sufficiently different due to changing specifications to cause a change in name. (And I thought I my specs was wishy washy!)
4. This airplane was armed.
5. The first three aircraft produced under the production order were used as prototypes (bringing the number of prototypes to six) because the airplanes role changed from it's initial specification.
6. The aircraft is a single seater.
7. The aircraft was powered by two engines from a well known manufacturer still a major producer in industry.
8. This airplane had only one production run and suffered a high loss rate. More than 50% were loss in accidents.
9. This airplane at one time held the record for the most maintenance hours per flying hour.
10. This airplane was only flown by the country of origin and by only one service.
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Old 07-11-2019, 05:50 PM
  #17331  
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Brewster Buffalo
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Old 07-11-2019, 05:53 PM
  #17332  
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Originally Posted by elmshoot View Post
Brewster Buffalo
The Buffalo was built and flown by the US Navy and Marines as well as the Finnish Air Force. That means the Buffalo isn't it.
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Old 07-11-2019, 07:31 PM
  #17333  
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Originally Posted by Hydro Junkie View Post
The Buffalo was built and flown by the US Navy and Marines as well as the Finnish Air Force. That means the Buffalo isn't it.
You are correct its not the buffalo but elmshoot did earn an extra clue! I'm looking for an infamous warbird.

1. This airplane's roots started out with an unusual specification.
2. The service leadership had second thoughts and the design was modified to drop this specification but the initial prototype kept an unusual tail feature.
3. The initial order was for 3 prototypes and each one was sufficiently different due to changing specifications to cause a change in name. (And I thought I my specs was wishy washy!)
4. This airplane was armed.
5. The first three aircraft produced under the production order were used as prototypes (bringing the number of prototypes to six) because the airplanes role changed from it's initial specification.
6. The aircraft is a single seater.
7. The aircraft was powered by two engines from a well known manufacturer still a major producer in industry.
8. This airplane had only one production run and suffered a high loss rate. More than 50% were loss in accidents.
9. This airplane at one time held the record for the most maintenance hours per flying hour.
10. This airplane was only flown by the country of origin and by only one service.
11. This airplane was converted to a tanker to fuel its under powered replacement after take off so the replacement could take off with a useful weapons load.
12. Its considerably later than a Brewster Buffalo.
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Old 07-12-2019, 04:33 AM
  #17334  
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Almost sounds like the B-50 being used as a tanker to fuel a B-52 as they had to be fueled in flight or they couldn't get off the ground EXCEPT the B-50 carried up to 10 men so that can't be it either
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Old 07-12-2019, 05:32 AM
  #17335  
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Originally Posted by Hydro Junkie View Post
Almost sounds like the B-50 being used as a tanker to fuel a B-52 as they had to be fueled in flight or they couldn't get off the ground EXCEPT the B-50 carried up to 10 men so that can't be it either
Same idea but smaller aircraft. You are get closer.
I'm looking for an infamous warbird.

1. This airplane's roots started out with an unusual specification.
2. The service leadership had second thoughts and the design was modified to drop this specification but the initial prototype kept an unusual tail feature.
3. The initial order was for 3 prototypes and each one was sufficiently different due to changing specifications to cause a change in name. (And I thought I my specs was wishy washy!)
4. This airplane was armed.
5. The first three aircraft produced under the production order were used as prototypes (bringing the number of prototypes to six) because the airplanes role changed from it's initial specification.
6. The aircraft is a single seater.
7. The aircraft was powered by two engines from a well known manufacturer still a major producer in industry.
8. This airplane had only one production run and suffered a high loss rate. More than 50% were loss in accidents.
9. This airplane at one time held the record for the most maintenance hours per flying hour.
10. This airplane was only flown by the country of origin and by only one service.
11. This airplane was converted to a tanker to fuel its under powered replacement after take off so the replacement could take off with a useful weapons load.
12. Its considerably later than a Brewster Buffalo.
13. This airplane was from the same time period as the B-50 and B-52.
14. It killed the commanding officer of the first squadron to operate it in front of the press.
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Old 07-12-2019, 12:03 PM
  #17336  
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Supermarine Scimitar
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Old 07-12-2019, 12:14 PM
  #17337  
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Originally Posted by adavis View Post
Supermarine Scimitar
We have a winner! It's scary to think it was used to carry a nuke with those crash statistics. I actually found it list as No.8 in the 10 Worst airplanes built by the British. The idea of using a rubber deck on a carrier and not have landing gear on the aircraft made me wonder about the Naval planners' drinking habits.

Supermarine Scimitar

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ID:	2264778Scimitars of 736 Naval Air Squadron at Farnborough 1962RoleNaval strike fighterNational originUnited KingdomManufacturerSupermarineFirst flight19 January 1956Introduction1957Retired1969StatusRetiredPrimar y userRoyal NavyNumber built76The Supermarine Scimitar was a British naval fighter aircraft operated by the Royal Navy Fleet Air Arm. The prototype for the eventual production version flew in January 1956 and production aircraft were delivered in 1957. It saw service with the Royal Navy from 1958 until 1969, replaced in service by the Blackburn Buccaneer.

Contents

Design and development[edit]

The Scimitar stemmed from a number of designs from Supermarine for a naval jet aircraft, initially to a requirement for an undercarriage-less fighter aircraft to land on flexible "sprung" rubber decks,[1] which would allow for a lighter and simpler structure.[2] Supermarine's design to meet this requirement was the Type 505, featuring a thin, straight wing and a V-tail (or "butterfly tail") to keep the tail surfaces away from the jet exhausts, and to be powered by two Rolls-Royce Avon turbojets, mounted side-by-side in the fuselage. In 1948, the Admiralty had second thoughts about the undercarriage-less fighter and Supermarine reworked their design by including a nosewheel undercarriage, becoming the Type 508.[3] The Vickers-Supermarine Type 508 was the first Scimitar ancestor and shared the layout of the Type 505, i.e. a twin-engined straight-winged type with a V-tail. Pitch control was by moving the whole tail, with elevators for additional pitch control when working in tandem and to replace the rudder on a conventional tail when working differentially. Ailerons were fitted to the wings for lateral control and leading and trailing edge flaps were also fitted to the wings.[4]
[5] An order for three Type 508s was placed in November 1947, to Specification N.9/47.[5]

The first Type 508 made its maiden flight from Boscombe Down airfield on 31 August 1951, with the aircraft carrying out carrier trials aboard HMS Eagle in May 1952.[6] The second aircraft had significant differences, carrying a cannon armament and was different enough in detail to be renamed the Type 529, flying for the first time on 29 August 1952.[5] One unusual modification was the larger tailcone for a proposed tail-warning radar.[7] The maximum speed of the straight-winged Type 508 and 529 was relatively modest, with the Type 529 reaching 607 mph (977 km/h) and it had already been decided when the Type 508 first flew, to redesign the third prototype with swept wings to improve performance. The resulting Type 525 also featured conventional swept tail surfaces as well as blown flaps to reduce the aircraft's landing speed and first flew on 27 April 1954.[8] It later crashed but the basic design had already proved sound enough to proceed with an outwardly fairly similar looking aircraft, the Type 544, to specification N.113.[9] A total of 100 were ordered, although the Royal Navy had changed the specification to a low level strike aircraft with nuclear capability rather than a fighter.

The first of the Type 544s serving as prototypes for the later production series flew on 19 January 1956. The aircraft evolved more with the third Type 544 incorporating different aerodynamic changes and a stronger airframe for the new low level role - to quote Flight; "To permit uninhibited manoeuvring in thick turbulent air at low levels while carrying heavy loads of strike weapons, the structure is extremely sturdy".[9] Various aerodynamic "fixes" to try and counter pitch-up effects at high speed and altitude included flared-out wing tips and wing fences. The tailplane was also changed from dihedral to anhedral. The combined modifications led to the final Type 544 being considered the "production standard". The first production Scimitar flew on 11 January 1957.[10]

The aircraft pioneered fuel flow proportioning and integral main-plane tanks, along with "blown" flying surfaces to reduce landing speeds.

Operational history[edit]

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An 803 NAS Scimitar from HMS Hermes with US Navy aircraft over the Mediterranean SeaAt the time of introduction most of the Royal Navy's carriers were quite small and the Scimitar was a comparatively large and powerful aircraft. Landing accidents were common and the introduction of the type was marred by a fatal accident which took the life of Commander John Russell, commanding officer of 803 Naval Air Squadron, the first squadron to operate the Scimitar. After a perfect landing on the newly recommissioned HMS Victorious and in full view of the press, one of the arrestor wires broke, and Russell's Scimitar (serial XD240) fell into the sea. With no means of ejecting through the jammed canopy and despite the best efforts of the crew of the Westland Whirlwind planeguard helicopter to perform a rescue, Russell's Scimitar sank to the bottom and Cdr Russell drowned.[11] The incident was later broadcast by British Pathé News.[12] Overall the Scimitar suffered from a high loss rate; 39 were lost in a number of accidents, amounting to 51 % of the Scimitar's production run.[1]

At one time, it held the record of 1,000 maintenance hours per flying hour.[citation needed] Although the Scimitar could operate as a fighter, the interceptor role was covered by the De Havilland Sea Venom and then the de Havilland Sea Vixen. The Scimitar itself was replaced by the Blackburn Buccaneer. The Scimitar was kept initially as a tanker to allow the underpowered Buccaneer S.1 to be launched from aircraft carriers with a useful weapons load. To save weight, the Buccaneer would take off with minimum fuel then top up from a Scimitar. Late in the Scimitar's operational career, examples were flown between 1965 and 1970 by the Fleet Requirements Unit (FRU) based at Bournemouth Airport (Hurn). The FRU was managed by Airwork Services and provided realistic flight operations for land and sea-based naval training units.[citation needed]

Variants[edit]

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Supermarine 508 research aircraft

Predecessors[edit]

Type 508Straight-wing research aircraft.Type 529Straight-wing research aircraft.Type 525Swept-wing research aircraft.

Prototypes[edit]

Type 544Prototype for the Scimitar F.1, 3 built by Vickers-Armstrong Experimental Department at Hursley Park

Production model[edit]

Scimitar F.1Single-seat multi-role fighter aircraft, 76 built by Vickers-Armstrong at South Marston. Original order was for 100 aircraft in 1952 later reduced to 76.

Operators[edit]

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Survivors[edit]

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XD220 in Intrepid Museum

Specifications[edit]

Data from Supermarine Aircraft since 1914[20]

General characteristics
  • Crew: 1
  • Length: 55 ft 3 in (16.84 m)
  • Wingspan: 37 ft 2 in (11.33 m)
  • Height: 17 ft 4 in (5.28 m)
  • Wing area: 485 sq ft (45.1 m2)
  • Empty weight: 23,962 lb (10,869 kg)
  • Gross weight: 34,200 lb (15,513 kg)
  • Powerplant: 2 × Rolls-Royce Avon 202 turbojet engines, 11,250 lbf (50.0 kN) thrust each [21]
Performance
  • Maximum speed: 640 kn (736 mph; 1,185 km/h) at sea level
  • Range: 1,237 nmi (1,424 mi; 2,291 km)
  • Service ceiling: 46,000 ft (14,000 m)
  • Rate of climb: 6,751 ft/min (34.30 m/s)
  • Time to altitude: 45,000 ft (14,000 m) in 6 minutes 39 seconds
Armament
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Old 07-12-2019, 01:26 PM
  #17338  
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The rubber deck was actually tested...


=Adrian=
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Old 07-12-2019, 07:07 PM
  #17339  
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I wonder how much the belly had to be reinforced to take the pounding?
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Old 07-13-2019, 11:22 PM
  #17340  
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Ok - I think this one will be quite quick...
  • Fighter
  • Produced by a consortium.
  • Engines manufactured by a different country.
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Old 07-15-2019, 04:51 AM
  #17341  
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Ok - I think this one will be quite quick...
  • Fighter
  • Produced by a consortium.
  • Engines manufactured by a different country...
  • ...Which was previously an enemy.
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Old 07-15-2019, 06:42 AM
  #17342  
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Kind of sounds like the Mig 15, it was powered by a British Nene Turbojet engine. That said, I doubt it was the Mig
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Old 07-16-2019, 08:48 AM
  #17343  
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Ok - I think this one will be quite quick...
  • Fighter
  • Produced by a consortium.
  • Engines manufactured by a different country...
  • ...Which was previously an enemy.
  • A majority of of the companies in the consortium well known warbird manufacturers - one not so.

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Old 07-20-2019, 07:44 AM
  #17344  
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Ok - I think this one will be quite quick...
  • Fighter
  • Produced by a consortium.
  • Engines manufactured by a different country...
  • ...Which was previously an enemy.
  • A majority of of the companies in the consortium well known warbird manufacturers - one not so.
  • Only prototypes built.
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Old Yesterday, 12:31 PM
  #17345  
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  • Fighter
  • Produced by a consortium.
  • Engines manufactured by a different country...
  • ...Which was previously an enemy.
  • A majority of of the companies in the consortium well known warbird manufacturers - one not so.
  • Only prototypes built.
  • One of the prototypes crashed.
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