Ernie P.

My Feedback: (3)

Mistake? As in "When inverted, down is up and up is expensive (Or, in this case, deadly)? Thanks; Ernie P.

Redback

Yes, that sort of mistake but not that particular one. Also I should have made clear that this happened in a different type of aircraft!

Terry

zippome

The Valiant? (not the Plymouth Valiant)
[h=1]Vickers Valiant[/h]From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


For the 1920s biplane, see Vickers 131 Valiant.
[TABLE="class: infobox, width: 315"]
[TR]
[TH="colspan: 2, align: center"]Vickers Valiant[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: center"]Valiant XD826 in 1961[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Role[/TH]
[TD]Strategic bomber, Aerial tanker[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Manufacturer[/TH]
[TD]Vickers-Armstrongs[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Designer[/TH]
[TD]George Edwards[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]First flight[/TH]
[TD]18 May 1951[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Introduction[/TH]
[TD]1955[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Retired[/TH]
[TD]January 1965[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Primary user[/TH]
[TD]Royal Air Force[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Number built[/TH]
[TD]107[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
The Vickers-Armstrongs Valiant was a British four-jet bomber, once part of the Royal Air Force's V bombernuclear force in the 1950s and 1960s. The Valiant was the first of the V bombers to become operational, and was followed by the Handley Page Victor and the Avro Vulcan; however it was noticeably less advanced than its counterparts. Several Valiants were soon converted to perform various support roles, such as aerial refuellingtankers and reconnaissance aircraft.
The Valiant was intended for operations as a high-level strategic bomber. By late 1964 it was found that all variants of the Valiant showed premature fatiguing and inter-crystalline corrosion in wing spar attachment castings traced to the use of a poorly understood[SUP][1][/SUP] [SUP][N 1][/SUP]aluminium alloy, DTD683. Rather than proceeding with an expensive rebuilding program, the Valiant was formally retired in 1965. Its duties were continued by the other V-bombers which remained in service until the 1980s.

[h=2]Contents[/h] [hide]

• 1 Development
• 2 Design
• 3 Operational history
• 4 Variants
• 5 Operators
• 6 Survivors
• 7 Accidents and incidents
• 8 Specifications (Valiant B.1)
• 9 See also
• 10 References
• 11 External links

[h=2]Development[edit][/h][h=3]Background and origins[edit][/h]In November 1944, the Joint Technical Warfare Committee, along with a separate committee chaired by Sir Henry Tizard, examined the future potential of "weapons of war" and the accompanying Tizard Report published on 3 July 1945 made specific policy directions for the Royal Air Force (RAF) Bomber Command.[SUP][2][/SUP] After theSecond World War, the policy of using heavy four-engined bombers for massed raids continued into the immediate postwar period; the Avro Lincoln, an updated version of the Avro Lancaster, became the RAF's standard bomber.[SUP][citation needed][/SUP] In 1946, the Air Staff issued Operational Requirements OR229 and OR230 for the development of turbojet-powered heavy bombers capable of carrying nuclear weapons at high altitude and speed, without defensive armament, to act as a deterrent to hostile powers and, if deterrence failed, to perform a nuclear strike.[SUP][2][/SUP]
In January 1947, the British Air Ministry issued Specification B.35/46 for an advanced jet bomber intended to carry nuclear weapons and fly near to the speed of sound at altitudes of 50,000 ft (15,000 m).[SUP][3][/SUP] Three firms: A.V. Roe, Handley-Page and Vickers-Armstrongs submitted advanced designs intended to meet the stringent requirements.[SUP][4][/SUP] While Short Brothers submitted a design, by Geoffrey T. R. Hill[SUP][5][/SUP], that was judged too ambitious, the Air Staff accepted another submission from the company for a separate requirement, B.14/46, as "insurance" in case the advanced B.35/46 effort ran into trouble. Short's conservative design became theS.A.4 Sperrin.[SUP][3][/SUP] Two prototypes were completed, the first flying in 1951, but the type was relegated to research and development.[SUP][4][/SUP]

First prototype at Farnborough Airshow, 1951

Both Handley-Page and Avro came up with very advanced designs for the bomber competition. These would become theVictor and the Vulcan respectively; the Air Staff decided to award contracts to each company as a form of insurance in case one design failed. The submissions were known as V bombers, with all the aircraft names starting with the letter "V" and consequently, were known collectively as the V-class.[SUP][6][/SUP]
Vickers' submission had initially been rejected as not as advanced as the Victor and Vulcan,[SUP][3][/SUP] but Vickers' chief designerGeorge Edwards lobbied the Air Ministry on the basis that it would be available much sooner than the competition, going so far as to promise delivery of a prototype in 1951 and production aircraft in 1953. Although developing and operating three overlapping large aircraft in response to a single Operational Requirement (OR) was wasteful and very costly, there was a sense of urgency on the necessity to provide an effective deterrent to the Soviet Union from aggression in Europe.[SUP][7][/SUP]
In April 1948, the Air Staff issued a specification with the designation B.9/48 written around the Vickers design, which was given the company designation of Type 660. In February 1949, two prototypes of the aircraft were ordered. The first was to be fitted with four Rolls-Royce RA.3 Avon engines, while the second was to be fitted with four Armstrong Siddeley Sapphire engines as the Type 667.[SUP][8][/SUP]
[h=3]Prototypes[edit][/h]The first prototype, serial number WB210 took to the air on 18 May 1951,[SUP][9][/SUP] as George Edwards had promised, and beat the first Short Sperrin into the air by several months. It had been only 27 months since the contract had been issued. The pilot was Captain Joseph "Mutt" Summers, who had also been the original test pilot on the Supermarine Spitfire, and wanted to add another "first" to his record before he retired. His co-pilot on the first flight was Gabe "Jock" Bryce, who succeeded Summers on his retirement soon afterwards.[SUP][10][/SUP]
The Vickers Type 660 was given the official name of "Valiant" the next month, recycling the name from the Vickers Type 131 general-purpose biplane of 1931.[SUP][N 2][/SUP]The name Valiant was selected by a survey of Vickers employees.[SUP][11][/SUP]
The Valiant jet bomber prototype was lost due to an in-flight fire in January 1952, all the crew escaping safely except for the co-pilot, who struck the tail after ejecting.[SUP][12][/SUP] After modifications to the fuel system (thought to be the cause of the fire), the second prototype, serial number WB215, the Vickers Type 667, flew on 11 April 1952.[SUP][13][/SUP] It was fitted with RA.7 Avon engines with 7,500 lbf (33 kN) thrust each, rather than the Sapphires originally planned, with more rounded air inlets replacing the narrow slot-type intakes of the first prototype, in order to feed sufficient air to the more powerful engines. The short delay before the second prototype was available meant that loss of the initial prototype did not seriously compromise the schedule.[SUP][14][/SUP][SUP][15][/SUP]
An initial production order for 25 Valiant B.1 (Bomber Mark 1) aircraft had already been placed in April 1951.[SUP][16][/SUP] The first production aircraft flew on 21 December 1953, again within the schedule Edwards had promised,[SUP][17][/SUP] and was delivered to the RAF on 8 February 1955.[SUP][18][/SUP] Britain's "V-bomber" force, as it had been nicknamed in October 1952, was now in operation. The Victor and Vulcan would follow.
Of the three prototypes, two were Mark 1s[SUP][19][/SUP] and one was for a developed version, the Valiant B.2, intended as a Pathfinder to mark targets for the main bomber force and to reach its targets at low level and high speed. To cope with the rougher ride compared with high altitude operations, the B.2 had a strengthened airframe. In particular, the wing was strengthened by removing the large cut-outs in the wing structure into which the main wheels retracted, allowing the wing torsion box structure to be uninterrupted and giving more room for internal fuel storage; instead the main landing gear, which had four wheels instead of the two large wheels of the B.1, retracted backwards into large fairings to the rear of the wings. The B.2 had a lengthened fuselage with a total length of 112 ft 9 in (34.37 m), in contrast to a length of 108 ft 3 in (32.99 m) for the Valiant B.1, with the extra length giving room for more avionics.[SUP][20][/SUP]
The prototype B.2, serial number WJ954 first flew on 4 September 1953.[SUP][21][/SUP] Finished in a gloss black night operations paint scheme, it became known as the "Black Bomber". Its performance at low level was superior to that of the B.1 (or any other V-bomber), with the aircraft being cleared to 580 mph (930 km/h) at low level (with speeds of up to 640 mph (1,030 km/h) being reached in testing). This compared to the B.1s sea-level limit of 414 mph (666 km/h). The Air Ministry ordered 17 production B.2s, which were to be powered by Rolls-Royce Conway turbofans. However, although the Valiant B.2's low-level capabilities would later prove to be highly desirable, the B.2 program was abandoned as the RAF realised that the Pathfinder concept, born in a time of mass raids, was obsolete in the nuclear era. The B.2 prototype was used for tests for a few years, including testing use of rockets to boost take-off, before being scrapped in 1958.[SUP][22][/SUP][SUP][23][/SUP]
[h=2]Design[edit][/h]The Valiant was a conservative design, with a shoulder-mounted wing and four Avon RA.3 turbojets, each of 6,500 lbf (29 kN) thrust, two in each wing root. The design gave an overall impression of a plain and clean aircraft with simple aerodynamics. George Edwards described it appropriately as an "unfunny" aircraft.[SUP][24][/SUP] The root chord thickness ratio was 12% and allowed the Avon engines to be within the wing rather than on pods as in the contemporary Boeing B-47.[SUP][25][/SUP] This "buried engine" fit contributed to the aircraft's aerodynamic cleanliness. However, it made engine access for maintenance and repair difficult and increased the risk that the failure of one engine would contribute to the failure of its pair due to flying debris such as turbine blades. It also increased the complexity of the design of the main spar which had to be routed around the engines.

Valiant B(PR)K.1 WZ393 of 90 Squadron in original all-metal finish displaying at Blackpool Squires Gate airport in 1957

The Valiant wing had a "compound sweep" configuration, devised (and patented) by Vickers aerodynamicist Elfyn Richards.[SUP][26][/SUP] It had a 37° angle of sweepback in the inner third of the wing, reducing to an angle of about 21° at the tips.[SUP][27][/SUP]This was because the thickness/chord ratio could be reduced closer to the tips, balancing this against the sweep reduction in postponement of Mach effects such as buffeting and drag rise.[SUP][26][/SUP] Limiting in-service speed was Mach 0.84 and a typical cruise of Mach 0.75 at heights up to 55,000 ft when light.[SUP][28][/SUP] A "clean" Valiant (one without underwing tanks) could climb straight to 50,000 ft after takeoff unless it had heavy stores in the large bomb bay.[SUP][citation needed][/SUP] The tail surfaces were swept back, and the horizontal tailplane was mounted well up the vertical fin to keep it clear of the engines' exhaust.[SUP][26][/SUP] The wing loading was low by modern standards and the Valiant was fitted with double-slotted flaps for takeoff (20° flap) and landing (40° or full flap, about 60°). The aircraft featured tricycle landing gear, with twin-wheel nosegear and tandem-wheel main gear retracting outward into the wing. Most of the aircraft's systems were electric including flaps and undercarriage.
Initial Valiant production aircraft had four Rolls-Royce Avon 201 turbojet engines, with 9,500 lbf (42 kN) thrust each. Trials were performed with two underwing de Havilland Sprite rocket booster engines; however these were deemed unnecessary due to the availability of more powerful Avon variants, as well as fear of accidents if one booster rocket failed on take-off, resulting in asymmetric thrust. The engine inlets were long rectangular slots in the first prototype, but later Valiants featured oval or "spectacle" shaped inlets to permit greater airflow for more powerful Avon engine variants.[SUP][25][/SUP] The jet exhausts emerged from fairings above the trailing edge of the wings. Water injection was fitted to some Valiants and increased takeoff thrust by about 1,000 lb (450 kg) per engine.
Electrics were based on 112 volt direct current generators for functions requiring large amounts of electrical power and a 28 V DC system provided a controlling voltage for other systems and the actuators that initiated the high-voltage system functions. Backup batteries were a bank of 24 V units and 96 V batteries. 115 Valternating current was provided to systems such as radio and radar that required it.[SUP][29][/SUP][SUP][30][/SUP] The brakes and steering gear were hydraulic, however pumps were electrically driven. The flight controls consisted of two channels of power control with full manual back-up; flying in manual was allowed but limited.[SUP][29][/SUP]
The Valiant was built around a massive backbone beam that supported the wing spars and the weight of bombs in the long bomb bay.[SUP][31][/SUP] The crew were contained in a pressurized "egg" and consisted of pilot, copilot, two navigators, and an electronics operator. Only the pilot and copilot had ejection seats. The other three crew members had to bail out of the crew door on the port side of the fuselage.[SUP][32][/SUP] The main structural components, spars and beams etc. were built with the zinc/magnesium/copper aluminium alloy designated as DTD683 in the U.K., which was problematic in the production of the Valiant.[SUP][33][/SUP][SUP][34][/SUP] The aircraft was designed with a 'Safe-Life' strategy.[SUP][35][/SUP] This combination of 'Safe-Life' and DTD683 came to be viewed as a severe mistake. In 1956, a publication within the Journal of the Institute of Metals[SUP][36][/SUP][SUP][N 3][/SUP] condemned the material DTD683 as being unstable and capable of catastrophic failure while stressing the airframe close to its design limits. The "Safe-Life" design strategy was dismissed by a Lockheed engineer in a talk given to the Royal Aeronautical Society in 1956, because it did not guarantee safety in a catastrophic failure.[SUP][37][/SUP]
The Valiant B.1 could carry a single 10,000 lb (4,500 kg) nuclear weapon or up to 21 1,000 lb (450 kg) conventional bombs in its bomb bay. Large external fuel tanks under each wing with a capacity of 1,650 Imp gal (7,500 L), could be used to extend range.
[h=2]Operational history[edit][/h][TABLE="class: metadata plainlinks ambox ambox-content ambox-Refimprove, width: 1"]
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[TD="class: mbox-text"]This section needs additional citations for verification. Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (January 2013)[/TD]
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[h=3]Nuclear deterrent[edit][/h]

Side view of a Yellow Sun nuclear bomb under the wing of a Vickers Valiant at RAF Cosford museum

The first squadron to be equipped with the Valiant was 138 Squadron, which formed at RAF Gaydon on 1 January 1955, with 232 Operational Conversion Unit forming at Gaydon on 21 February 1955 to convert crews onto the new bomber. Since the Valiant was part of an entirely new class of bombers for the RAF, the crews for the new type were selected from experienced aircrew, with first pilots requiring 1,750 flying hours as an aircraft captain, with at least one tour flying the Canberra, with second pilots needing 700 hours in command and the remaining three crewmembers had to be recommended for posting to the Valiant by their commanding officers.[SUP][38][/SUP] Valiants were originally assigned to the strategic nuclear bombing role, as were the Vulcan and Victor B.1s when they became operational. At its peak, the Valiant equipped nine RAF squadrons.
A Valiant B.1 (WZ366) of No 49 Squadron was the first RAF aircraft to drop a British operational atomic bomb when it performed a test drop of a down-rated Blue Danube weapon on Maralinga, South Australia, on 11 October 1956.[SUP][39][/SUP]
On 15 May 1957, a 49 Squadron Valiant B(K).1 dropped the first British hydrogen bomb, the "Short Granite" (AKA "Green Granite Small"), over the Pacific as part ofOperation Grapple. The test was largely a failure, as the measured yield was less than a third of the maximum expected and while achieving the desiredthermonuclear explosion the device had failed to operate as intended. The first British hydrogen bomb that detonated as planned, "Grapple X Round A" (AKA "Round C1"), was dropped on 8 November 1957. The Grapple series of tests continued into 1958, and in April 1958 the "Grapple Y" bomb exploded with 10 times the yield of the original "Short Granite". Testing was finally terminated in November 1958, when the British government decided it would perform no more air-delivered nuclear tests.
[h=3]Conventional warfare[edit][/h]Peacetime practice involved the dropping of small practice bombs on instrumented bombing ranges, also a system of predicted bombing using radio tones to mark the position of bomb drop over non-range targets, the bomb error being calculated by a ground radar unit and passed either to the crew during flight or to a headquarters for analysis. When the Navigational and Bombing System (NBS) was fitted and crews well-trained, bombing accuracies became typical of other aircraft of the time and from high level (say, 40,000 ft/12,190 m) a 100 yd (90 m) error was not uncommon.
The Valiant was the first of the V-bombers to see combat, during the Anglo-French-Israeli Suez intervention in October and November 1956. During Operation Musketeer, Valiants operating from the airfield at Luqa on Malta dropped conventional HE bombs on targets inside Egypt. Although the Egyptians did not oppose the attacks and there were no Valiant combat losses, the results of the raids were disappointing. Their primary targets were seven Egyptian airfields. Although the Valiants dropped a total of 842 tons (856 tonnes) of bombs, only three of the seven airfields were seriously damaged. [SUP][N 4][/SUP] It was the last time the V-bombers flew a war mission until Avro Vulcans bombed Port Stanley airfield in the Falkland Islands during the Falklands War in 1982.
[h=3]Tanker operations[edit][/h]Valiant tankers were flown by 214 Squadron at RAF Marham, operational in 1958 and 90 Squadron at Honington, operational in 1959. These aircraft were fitted with a Hose Drum Unit (HDU or "Hoodoo") in the bomb bay. The HDU was mounted on bomb-mounting points and could be removed if necessary. However, this arrangement meant that the bomb doors had to be opened in order to give fuel to a receiver aircraft.
With inflight refuelling probes fitted to Valiants, Vulcans and Victors and Valiant tankers available, the so-called "Medium Bomber Force" of the RAF could go beyond "medium range", and the RAF had a true strategic bombing capability. Long-range demonstration flights were made using Valiant tankers pre-deployed along the route. In 1960, a Valiant bomber flew non-stop from Marham in the UK to Singapore and in 1961 a Vulcan non-stop from the UK to Australia. The two tanker squadrons regularly practised long range missions, refuelled by other Valiant tankers on the way. In 1963 a squadron of Gloster Javelin All-weather interceptors was refuelled in stages from the UK to India (Exercise "Shiksha"). The tankers going on to Butterworth near Penang in Malaysia and returning the Javelins to the UK three weeks later. Four of the Javelins were refuelled to Singapore to join 60Sqn during Confrontation. Other aircraft refuelled at this time included Victor and Vulcan bombers and English Electric Lightning fighters, also the de Havilland Sea Vixen fighter of the Royal Navy.
[h=3]Countermeasures and reconnaissance roles[edit][/h]Valiants of No. 18 Squadron RAF at RAF Finningley were modified to the "radio countermeasures" (RCM) role - RCM is now called "electronic countermeasures" (ECM). These aircraft were ultimately fitted with APT-16A and ALT-7 jamming transmitters, Airborne Cigar and Carpet jammers, APR-4 and APR-9 "sniffing" receivers, and chaff dispensers. At least seven Valiants were configured to the RCM role.
Valiants of number 543 Squadron at RAF Wyton were modified to serve in the photographic reconnaissance role.
[h=3]Fatigue failures and retirement[edit][/h]

Camouflaged Valiant at Filton,England. Date uncertain but probably the mid-1960s

Originally the bombing role was at high level but with the shooting down of the Lockheed U-2 flown by Gary Powers by an early SA-2 Guideline missile, the SAM threat caused the V-force to train for low-level attack. They were repainted in grey/green camouflage, replacing their anti-flash white scheme. Three squadrons of Valiants were assigned to the low-level tactical bombing role (49, 148, 207) and two more squadrons (90 and 214) served as tankers. They also continued to serve in the strategic photo-reconnaissance role (543 Squadron).
In 1956, Vickers began a series of low level tests in WZ383 to assess the type for low level flight at high speed. Several modifications to the aircraft were made, including a metal radome, debris guards on the two inboard engines, after six flights the aileron and elevator artificial feel was reduced by 50%, the pilots also reported problems with cabin heating and condensation that would need remedying. Clearly it takes more than a coat of camouflage paint to be able to fly at low level. The aircraft was fitted with data recording equipment and this data was used by Vickers to estimate the remaining safe life of the type under these flying conditions. Initially a safe life of 75 hours was recommended, which became "the real figure might be less than 200 hours".[SUP][40][/SUP] How many hours a Valiant flew in a year was seen as an operational issue for the RAF,[SUP][41][/SUP] Vickers could only give recommendations.
Later the RAE ran a similar series of tests that more closely resembled actual operational conditions including low level and taxiing, the report[SUP][42][/SUP] published in 1958 produced data that could be used to get a better grasp on which flight conditions produced the most damage, and better enable a projection of the future life span for the type.
In May 1957 Flight reported an "incident at Boscombe Down, when a Valiant cracked a rear spar member after a rocket-assisted take-off in overload conditions"[SUP][43][/SUP]This aircraft was the second prototype WB 215, it was subsequently broken up for wing fatigue testing, it had flown 489 hours[SUP][44][/SUP]
By the time the type was scrapped only around 50 aircraft were still in service, the rest had been slowly accumulating at various RAF Maintenance Units designated as "Non effective Aircraft"[SUP][45][/SUP]
In July 1964 a cracked spar was found in one of the three Valiants (either WZ394 - Wynne, or WZ389 - Morgan) involved in Operation Pontifex[SUP][46][/SUP] followed shortly afterward on 6 August, by a failure of a rear spar at 30,000 ft,[SUP][47][/SUP] in WP217 an OCU aircraft from Gaydon flown by Flight Lieutenant "Taffy" Foreman. The aircraft landed back at Gaydon but without a flap because of damage in the rear of one wing. Later inspection of the aircraft showed the fuselage skin below the starboard inner plane had buckled, popping the rivets; the engine door had cracked and the rivets had been pulled and the skin buckled on the top surface of the mainplane between the two engines. Both these aircraft were PR variants,[SUP][48][/SUP] operating at 30,000 ft.[SUP][49][/SUP]
Denis Healey said when asked to make a statement about the scrapping in the House of Commons, that it "was not in any way connected with low-level flying".[SUP][50][/SUP]Barry Jones commented in his book “A question has to be asked. For two years before the demise of the Valiant, Handley Page at Radlett had 100 Hastings go through their shops. They were completely dismantled and rebuilt, having DTD683 components removed and replaced by new alloy sections. What was so special about the Hastings and why was the Valiant not treated similarly? Perhaps we will know one day -- but I doubt it.” [SUP][51][/SUP] In a Flight[SUP][52][/SUP] report about the scrapping it states "Fatigue affected all Valiants ... not only those ... used for ... low flying" it was the "limited-life" design (Safe-Life) or "actual fatigue problems" (DTD683) that were the cause.
Inspections of the entire fleet showed that the wing spars were suffering from fatigue at between 35% and 75% of the assessed safe fatigue life, probably due to low level turbulence[SUP][citation needed][/SUP]. After this inspection, the aircraft were divided into three categories, Cat A aircraft continuing to fly, Cat B to fly to a repair base, and Cat C requiring repair before flying again. The tanker squadrons had the highest proportion of Cat A aircraft because their role had been mainly at high level[SUP][citation needed][/SUP]. This also caused the methods of assessing fatigue lives to be reviewed.[SUP][53][/SUP] However, in January 1965, the Wilson government with Denis Healeyas Secretary of State for Defence decided that the expense of the repairs could not be justified and the fleet was permanently grounded as of 26 January 1965.[SUP][54][/SUP]The QRA alert that had been in place for SACEUR was maintained until the final grounding and was then allowed to lapse.[SUP][55][/SUP]
On 9 December 1964, the last Valiant tanker sortie involved refuelling Lightning aircraft over the North Sea. On the same day, the last Valiant bomber sortie was carried out, using XD818.[SUP][N 5][/SUP] The Valiant was Vickers' last purpose-built military aircraft. It was followed by the Vanguard, a passenger turboprop designed in 1959, and the Vickers VC10, a jet passenger aircraft from 1962, also used as a military transport and tanker by the RAF.
[h=2]Variants[edit][/h]Including three prototypes, a total of 107 Valiants were built.

• Valiant B.1: 39 pure bomber variants, including five pre-production Type 674, which were powered by Avon RA.14 engines with the same 9,500 lbf (42 kN) thrust each as the earlier Avon 201 and 34 Type 706 full-production aircraft, powered by Avon RA.28 204 or 205 engines with 10,500 lbf (47 kN) thrust each, longer tailpipes, and water-methanol injection for take-off boost power.
• Type 710 Valiant B(PR).1: eight bomber/photo-reconnaissance aircraft. Edwards and his team had considered use of the Valiant for photo-reconnaissance from the start, and this particular type of aircraft could accommodate a removable "crate" in the bomb-bay, carrying up to eight narrow-view/high resolution cameras and four survey cameras.
• Type 733 Valiant B(PR)K.1: 13 bomber/photo-reconnaissance/tanker aircraft
• Type 758 Valiant B(K).1: 44 bomber / tanker aircraft. Both tanker variants carried a removable tanker system in the bomb-bay, featuring fuel tanks and a hose-and-drogue aerial refuelling system. A further 16 Valiant B(K).1s were ordered, but cancelled.
• Vickers also considered an air transport version of the Valiant, with a low-mounted wing, wingspan increased to 140 ft (42.7 m) from 114 ft 4 in (34.8 m), fuselage lengthened to 146 ft (44.5 m), and uprated engines. Work on a prototype, designated the Type 1000, began in early 1953. The prototype was to lead to a military transport version, the Type 1002, and a civilian transport version, the Type 1004 or VC.7. The Type 1000 prototype was almost complete when it, too, was cancelled.

Valiant production ended in August 1957; the last six had been cancelled in 1956.
[h=2]Operators[edit][/h] United Kingdom

• Royal Air Force operated Valiants out of RAF Gaydon, RAF Finningley, RAF Honington, RAF Marham, RAF Wittering and RAF Wyton by:
  • No. 7 Squadron - Reformed at Honington on 1 November 1956, moving to Wittering on 26 July 1960 and disbanding 30 September 1962.[SUP][56][/SUP]
  • No. 18 Squadron - Valiant equipped C Flight of 199 Squadron renumbered 18 Squadron at Finningley on 17 December 1958 and disbanded 31 March 1963.[SUP][56][/SUP]
  • No. 49 Squadron - Reformed Wittering 1 May 1956, moving to Marham 26 June 1961 and disbanding 1 May 1965.[SUP][56][/SUP]
  • No. 90 Squadron - Reformed at Honington on 1 January 1957 and disbanded on 1 March 1965 .[SUP][56][/SUP]
  • No. 138 Squadron - Reformed at Gaydon on 1 January 1955, moving to Wittering on 6 July 1955 and disbanding 1 April 1962.[SUP][56][/SUP]
  • No. 148 Squadron - Reformed Marham 1 July 1956 and disbanded 1 May 1965.[SUP][56][/SUP]
  • No. 199 Squadron - C Flight of 199 Squadron received Valiants on 29 May 1957 at Honington in the ECM training role, replacing Avro Lincolns, with the rest of the Squadron operating the Canberra. 199 Squadron was disbanded in December 1958, with C Flight becoming 18 Squadron.[SUP][56][/SUP][SUP][57][/SUP]
  • No. 207 Squadron - Reformed at Marham on 1 April 1956, disbanding on 1 May 1965.[SUP][56][/SUP]
  • No. 214 Squadron - Reformed at Marham on 21 January 1956 and disbanded on 1 March 1965.[SUP][56][/SUP]
  • No. 543 Squadron - Reformed at Gaydon on 1 April 1955 in the strategic reconnaissance role and moved to Wyton on 18 November 1955. It received Victor Mk 1s to replace its grounded Valiants in 1965.[SUP][56][/SUP][SUP][58][/SUP]
  • No. 232 Operational Conversion Unit RAF - Formed at Gaydon 21 February 1955 to train Valiant flight crews, with Victor training added in 1957. The Valiant equipped B flight disbanded in February 1965.[SUP][56][/SUP]
  • No. 1321 (Valiant/Blue Danube Trials) Flight[SUP][59][/SUP]

[h=2]Survivors[edit][/h]

Vickers Valiant B1 XD818 - RAF Museum Cosford in 2006

• Vickers Valiant B1 XD818 - RAF Museum Cosford, on display with the other two V bombers, the Victor and Vulcan in the National Cold War Exhibition, this is the only fully intact example in existence, and so is the only place where an example of all three V bombers can be seen together.[SUP][60][/SUP]
• Cockpit sections surviving comprise XD816 at Brooklands Museum in Surrey and XD875 at the Highland Aviation Museum at Inverness Airport.[SUP][61][/SUP][SUP][62][/SUP] A third surviving section is the cockpit of XD826 which is part of a private collection in Essex and the flight deck of XD857 is displayed at the Norfolk and Suffolk Aviation Museum at Flixton, Suffolk.[SUP][63][/SUP]

[h=2]Accidents and incidents[edit][/h]

• 12 January 1952; the first Valiant prototype WB210 crashed near Hurn following a mid-air fire.[SUP][64][/SUP]
• 29 July 1955; Valiant B1 WP222 of No. 138 Squadron crashed on takeoff at RAF Wittering following aileron malfunction killing all four crew.[SUP][65][/SUP][SUP][66][/SUP]
• 11 May 1956; Valiant B1 WP202 of the Royal Aircraft Establishment lost control and crashed attempting to land at Southwick Recreation Ground, near Hove in Sussex.[SUP][65][/SUP]
• 13 September 1957: Valiant B(PR)K1 WZ398 of No. 543 Squadron caught fire in a hangar at RAF Wyton, not repaired.[SUP][67][/SUP]
• 11 September 1959: Valiant BK1 XD869 of No. 214 Squadron flew into the ground after a night take off from RAF Marham.[SUP][68][/SUP]
• 12 August 1960: Valiant BK1 XD864 of No. 7 Squadron nose wheel failed to retract on takeoff from RAF Wittering, while sorting it out the aircraft stalled and crashed into the ground at RAF Spanhoe disused airfield.[SUP][68][/SUP]
• 11 July 1961: Valiant B1 WP205 of the Aircraft and Armament Experimental Establishment overshot runway and hit control caravan at Boscombe Down.[SUP][65][/SUP]
• 3 November 1961: Valiant B(PR)K1 WZ399 of No. 543 Squadron abandoned takeoff at Offut AFB, Nebraska, United States, caught fire after overshooting runway onto a railway line.[SUP][67][/SUP]
• 14 March 1961 Valiant B. 1 WP200 at RRFU Pershore, failed to complete take off, written off [SUP][65][/SUP][SUP][69][/SUP]
• 6 May 1964: Valiant B1 WZ363 of No. 148 Squadron (although a 148 Sqn aircraft, it was on loan to, and crewed by, members of 207 Sqn) dived into the ground at night at Market Rasen, Lincolnshire.[SUP][67][/SUP]
• 23 May 1964: Valiant B(PR)K1 WZ396 of No. 543 Squadron landed on foam with landing gear problems at RAF Manston, not repaired.[SUP][67][/SUP]

[h=2]Specifications (Valiant B.1)[edit][/h]
Data from Vickers Aircraft since 1908.[SUP][70][/SUP]
General characteristics

• Crew: five - two pilots, two navigators (one navigator plotter + one navigator bomber), air electronics officer
• Length: 108 ft 3 in (32.99 m)
• Wingspan: 114 ft 4 in (34.85 m)
• Height: 32 ft 2 in (9.80 m)
• Wing area: 2,362 ft² (219 m²)
• Empty weight: 75,881 lb (34,491 kg)
• Max. takeoff weight: 140,000 lb (63,600 kg)
• Powerplant: 4 × Rolls-Royce Avon RA28 Mk 204 turbojet, 10,000 lb (44.6 kN) each

Performance

• Maximum speed: 567 mph (493 knots, 913 km/h) at 30,000 ft (9,150 m)
• Range: 4,500 mi (3,910 nmi, 7,245 km) with underwing tanks
• Service ceiling: 54,000 ft (16,500 m)
• Rate of climb: 4,000 ft/min (20 m/s)

Armament

• Bombs:
  • 1 × 10,000 lb (4500 kg) Blue Danube nuclear bo

Redback

Nope, not the Valiant or any of the other V Bombers! An evening clue (here in Oz anyway)

1. Like many post WW2 aircraft, development of this plane was driven by the realisation that aircraft that had performed well in the war were no longer effective.
2. Had a long service life with the country of manufacture, was also used by one other country
3. In the late period of the war several other aircraft were pressed into the role
4. The aircraft in question had its roots in one of these, with elements from a completely different source
5. During its in-service development it "acquired" an extra pair of engines
6. The designer of this aircraft died as a result of a mistake that more than a few RCers have made with their models (I know I have!)
7. Three versions built. The Mark 2s outlasted the Mark 3s in service.
8. Later version were able to deploy nuclear ordnance as their quarry became more elusive

Ernie P.

My Feedback: (3)

Guys; I'll be out of touch for a few days, although I'll try to check in occasionally. Play nice and have fun. Thanks; Ernie P.

elmshoot

My Feedback: (6)

OOH! OOH! OOH! OOOOH!!!! How about the P2V Neptune? It had jet engines added to the wings. Going nuke to hunt subs means you don't have to be as close. In one of my classes they mentioned the underwater nuke would boil a cubic mile of seawater so all at once it it became steam! The Japs operated the Neptune as well as several NATO countries as I recall. Also flown overland in Viet Nam as well, Night road interdiction.
Sparky

Redback

Sparky
Not the Neptune, but you are soooooooooooooo close!

So much so that I will hold off giving another clue until tomorrow.


Terry

elmshoot

My Feedback: (6)

All without looking anything up.
Marinar? The Japs used it and stuck Turbo props but if recall the Jap's didn't have a offensive nukes. I never thought the Nukes were small enough to fit in one of these , I think this is close and fits with the one other country hint above.
Now I will go look it up and see if I am close on this guess!
I have a 108" languishing waiting to be finished It is way more than 75% done.
Sparky

elmshoot

My Feedback: (6)

The Jap Marlin looks to be the ticket after looking things up all derivatives of the Martin PBM.
I gotta go feed the horses.
Sparky



[h=1]Shin Meiwa US-1A[/h] From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Redirected from ShinMaywa PS-1)


[TABLE="class: metadata plainlinks ambox ambox-content ambox-Refimprove"]
[TR]
[TD="class: mbox-image"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: mbox-text"]This article needs additional citations for verification. Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (June 2007)[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE="class: infobox, width: 315"]
[TR]
[TH="colspan: 2, align: center"]PS-1 / US-1A[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: center"]A US-1 doing touch-and-gos at Marine Corps Air Station Iwakuni[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Role[/TH]
[TD]Air-sea rescue amphibian[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Manufacturer[/TH]
[TD]Shin Meiwa[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Designer[/TH]
[TD]Shizuo Kikuhara[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]First flight[/TH]
[TD]5 October 1967 (PX-S)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Introduction[/TH]
[TD]1971 (PS-1)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Primary user[/TH]
[TD]Japan Maritime Self Defense Force[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Produced[/TH]
[TD]PS-1: 23
US-1: 6
US-1A: 14[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Variants[/TH]
[TD]ShinMaywa US-2[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
The Shin Meiwa PS-1 and US-1A (Japanese: 新明和 PS-1, US-1A) are large STOL aircraft designed for anti-submarine warfare (ASW) and air-sea rescue (SAR) work respectively. The PS-1 was a flying boat which carried its own beaching gear on board, while the US-1A is a true amphibian.
[h=2]Contents[/h]

• 1 Design and development
  • 1.1 Concept aircraft not built
• 2 Operators
• 3 Specifications (US-1A)
• 4 See also
• 5 References
  • 5.1 Notes
  • 5.2 Bibliography
• 6 External links

[h=2]Design and development[/h] In 1960, Shin Meiwa demonstrated a prototype flying boat, the UF-XS, that featured a novel boundary layer control system to provide enhanced STOL performance. The company also built upon its wartime experience (as Kawanishi) to refine the Grumman Albatross hull that the aircraft was based on. In 1966, the JMSDF awarded the company a contract to further develop these ideas into an ASW patrol aircraft. Two prototypes were built under the designation PS-X and flight tests began on October 5, 1967, leading to an order for production under the designation PS-1 in 1969.
Apart from the boundary layer control system (powered by an independent gas turbine carried in the fuselage), the aircraft had a number of other innovative features, including a system to suppress spray during water handling, and directing the exhaust from the aircraft's four turboprop engines over its wings to create yet more lift. Between 1971 and 1978, the JMSDF ordered 21 of these aircraft, and operated them until 1989 when they were phased out and replaced with P-3 Orions. The small production run resulted in an extremely high unit-cost for these aircraft, and the programme was politically controversial.
The PS-1 ASW variant carried homing torpedoes, depth charges and 127mm rockets as offensive armament but had no defensive weapons. It was equipped with dipping sonar, which had limited use as it required the aircraft to land on water to deploy. It could also carry up to 20 sonobuoys. It had a crew of ten: pilot, co-pilot, flight engineer, navigator and six sensor/weapons operators.[SUP][1][/SUP]
The PS-1 had not been in service long before the JMSDF requested the development of a search-and-rescue variant. The deletion of the PS-1's military equipment allowed for greater fuel capacity, workable landing gear, and rescue equipment. The new variant, the US-1A, could also quickly be converted for troop-carrying duties. First flown on October 15, 1974, it was accepted into service the following year, and eventually 19 aircraft were purchased. From the seventh aircraft on, an uprated version of the original engine was used, but all aircraft were eventually modified to this US-1A standard. The US-1A's first rescue was from a Greek vessel in 1976. Between that time and 1999, US-1As had been used in over 500 rescues, saving 550 lives.[SUP][2][/SUP]
One PS-1 was experimentally modified for aerial firefighting in 1976 with an internal capacity of 7,350 litres (1,940 US gal) of water.[SUP][3][/SUP]
With the US-1A fleet beginning to show its age, the JMSDF attempted to obtain funding for a replacement in the 1990s, but could not obtain enough to develop an entirely new aircraft. Therefore, in 1995, ShinMaywa began plans for an upgraded version of the US-1A, the US-1A kai (US-1A 改 - "improved US-1A"). This aircraft features numerous aerodynamic refinements, a pressurised hull, and more powerful Rolls-Royce AE 2100 engines. Flight tests began on December 18, 2003. The JMSDF purchased up to 14 of these aircraft, around 2007 and entered service as the ShinMaywa US-2.
[h=3]Concept aircraft not built[/h] In 1977 Shin Meiwa had several ideas for its STOL flying boat concept on the drawing board but none were ever built. They were the Shin Meiwa LA (Light Amphibian), a 40 passenger light amphibian for inter-island feeder service; the 400 passenger Shin Meiwa MA (Medium Amphibian); the Shin Meiwa MS (Medium Seaplane) a 300 passenger long range flying boat with its own beaching gear; and the gargantuan Shin Meiwa GS (Giant Seaplane) that has a passenger capacity of an astonishing 1200 passengers seated on three decks. Unlike the Shin Meiwa LA and MA which were like the US-1 in design the Shin Meiwa MS and GS had it engines located in front of and above the wing like the USAF Boeing YC-14 to give STOL effect. In the end, none of the four designs got beyond the drawing boards.[SUP][4][/SUP]
[h=2]Operators[/h] Japan Japan Maritime Self Defense Force [h=2]Specifications (US-1A)[/h] Data from Jane's All The World's Aircraft 1988-89[SUP][5][/SUP]
General characteristics

• Crew: nine (pilot, co-pilot, flight engineer, navigator, radio operator, radar operator, two observers)
• Capacity: 20 survivors or 12 stretchers
• Length: 33.46 m (109 ft 9¼ in)
• Wingspan: 33.15 m (108 ft 9 in)
• Height: 9.95 m (32 ft 7¾ in)
• Wing area: 135.8 m² (1,462 ft²)
• Empty weight: 23,300 kg (51,367 lb)
• Max. takeoff weight: 45,000 kg[SUP][6][/SUP] (99,200 lb)
• Powerplant: 4 × Ishikawajima-Harima/General Electric T64-IHI-10J turboprops, 2,605 kW (3,493 ehp) each
• plus 1× General Electric T58 gas turbine, 1,104 kW (1,360 shp) driving boundary layer control system

Performance

• Maximum speed: 511 km/h (276 knots, 318 mph)
• Cruise speed: 426 km/h (230 knots, 265 mph)
• Range: 3,817 km (2,060 nmi, 2,372 mi)
• Service ceiling: 7,195 m (23,600 ft)
• Rate of climb: 8.1 m/s (1,600 ft/min)

Armament

• 4 x 150 kilograms (330 lb) depth charges, 2 x homing torpedoes, 6 x 127mm Zuni rockets (PS-1 only)

Avionics

• Ocean search radar

[h=2]See also[/h] Related development

• ShinMaywa US-2

Aircraft of comparable role, configuration and era

• Harbin SH-5
• Beriev Be-12
• Martin P5M Marlin

Related lists

• List of military aircraft of Japan
• List of flying boats

[h=2]References[/h] [h=3]Notes[/h]

Bernard Fitzsimons (1978). The Illustrated encyclopedia of 20th century weapons and warfare 20. Columbia House. p. 2149.

• Operating from land - Maximum takeoff weight from water 43,000 kg (94,800 lb)

[h=3]Bibliography[/h]

• Taylor, John W.R. (editor). Jane's All The World's Aircraft 1988-89. Coulsdon, UK: Jane's Defence Data, 1988. ISBN 0-7106-0867-5.

[h=2]External links[/h] [TABLE="class: mbox-small plainlinks sistersitebox"]
[TR]
[TD="class: mbox-image"][/TD]
[TD="class: mbox-text plainlist"]Wikimedia Commons has media related to ShinMaywa US-1.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

• ShinMaywa aircraft page
• Giant Amphibian - Japan has one godzilla of a seaplane - Air & Space/Smithsonian magazine
• The Shin Meiwa PS-1 / US-1 & Harbin SH-5 Flying Boats www.vectorsite.net

[TABLE="class: navbox"]
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• List of jet airliners

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Categories:

• Shin Meiwa aircraft
• Japanese anti-submarine aircraft 1960–1969
• Japanese military rescue aircraft 1960–1969
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• 

http://www.shinmaywa.co.jp/aircraft/...s2_rescue.html

Jane's All the World's Aircraft 2003-2004. Jane's Information Group. 2003. p. 313. ISBN 0-7106-2537-5.

Paul Wahl "1200 Passengers on three decks...a come back for flying boats" Popular Mechanics November 1977, pp. 84-85

Taylor 1988, pp.172-173.

JohnnyS

Avro Shackleton?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_Shackleton

Redback

And after Elmshoot takes the ball downfield Johnny takes it over the line!

The Avro Shackleton it is! Designed by Roy Chadwick of Lancaster fame and drawing heavily on the Lanc's successor the Lincoln.

Chadwick died on 23 August 1947 in a crash during the takeoff of the prototype Avro Tudor 2 G-AGSU from Woodford airfield. The accident was due to an error in an overnight servicing in which the aileron cables were inadvertently crossed - hence clue 6!

Johnny, you are up!

JohnnyS

Cool!

Now I have to come up with a new one. Tricky...

1. Single engine
2. Biplane
3. Set several world records.
4. Flying boat.

elmshoot

My Feedback: (6)

Johnny You got this one!
I remember as a Kid living in Keflavic Iceland. Seeing the Shackelton on the ramp circa 1965. I knew about the Lancaster bomber and even at the age of 11 saw the similarity to that plane but the Nose gear realy had me confused.
Sparky

uncljoe

My Feedback: (8)

SWAG>>>

[h=1]Macchi M.3[/h]From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


[TABLE="class: infobox, width: 315"]
[TR]
[TH="colspan: 2, align: center"]Macchi M.3[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Role[/TH]
[TD]Biplane flying boat[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Manufacturer[/TH]
[TD]Macchi[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]First flight[/TH]
[TD]1916[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Retired[/TH]
[TD]1924[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Primary user[/TH]
[TD]Regia Marina[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Number built[/TH]
[TD]200[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Developed from[/TH]
[TD]Macchi L.2[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
The Macchi L.3, or later Macchi M.3, was an Italian biplane flying boat developed from the earlier L.2.
[h=2]Development[edit][/h]The company had learnt about flying boat design from copying an Austrian flying boat to produce the Macchi L.1 and improving it to produce the L.2. The result was the L.3, which was renamed the M.3 in 1917 to recognise the change in design from Lohner influenced to a Macchi design. Only the unequal-span biplane wings were inherited from the L.2 a new and refined hull and strut-mounted tailplane were designed. Powered by a single Isotta-Fraschini engine strut mounted between the two wings and driving a pusher propeller. It was armed with a single machine gun on a trainable mounting and could also carry four light bombs. In 1916, one aircraft gained the world altitude record for a seaplane when it climbed to 5,400 m (17,700 ft) in 41 minutes.
[h=2]Operational history[edit][/h]Over 200 M.3s were built and delivered to the Royal Italian Navy and were used on a variety of missions which including bombing, reconnaissance, patrol and escort. For a short period in 1917, it was also used as a fighter. Several aircraft were used in commando-style operations behind Austrian lines. The aircraft were highly regarded by the Royal Italian Navy and they were used on bombing raids and pioneered the Italian use of aerial photography. After World War I, the type was used by training units until 1924.
In 1919, an L.3 which belonged to the Italian Military Mission in Argentina connected Buenos Aires with Asunción, Paraguay for the first time. This plane was later donated to the Paraguayan government. Lieutenant Arturo Escario, who was already a pilot, trained in the L.3 in Argentina. This plane was destroyed in an accident on 30 September 1919. Its pilot, Lieutenant Escario, died the following day.
A number of second-hand aircraft were used by the Swiss company Ad Astra Aero to carry out charters and joy rides on the Swiss lakes, the two passengers were seated side-by-side behind a large windscreen with the pilot in a raised open cockpit further aft.
[h=2]Operators[edit][/h] Kingdom of Italy

• Regia Marina

Switzerland

• Ad Astra Aero

Paraguay

• Paraguayan government
  • Paraguayan Air Force

[h=2]Specifications (M.3)[edit][/h]Data from The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Aircraft (Part Work 1982-1985). Orbis Publishing. p. 2392.
General characteristics

• Crew: 2
• Wingspan: 15.95 m (52 ft 4 in)
• Gross weight: 1,350 kg (2,976 lb)
• Powerplant: 1 × Isotta-Fraschini V.4B, 119 kW (160 hp)

Performance

• Maximum speed: 144 km/h (90 mph)
• Range: 385 km (239 miles)

Armament

• 1 × Fiat machine-gun or a light cannon

JohnnyS

Not the M.3. Not enough world records!

New clue:

1. Single engine
2. Biplane
3. Set several world records.
4. Flying boat.
5. Armed with 4 machine guns. Installation of a 20mm cannon was explored, but never completed.

JohnnyS

New clue:

1. Single engine
2. Biplane
3. Set several world records.
4. Flying boat.
5. Armed with 4 machine guns. Installation of a 20mm cannon was explored, but never completed.
6. Fought in the Spanish civil war, on the Republican side.

JohnnyS

New clue:

1. Single engine
2. Biplane
3. Set several world records.
4. Flying boat.
5. Armed with 4 machine guns. Installation of a 20mm cannon was explored, but never completed.
6. Fought in the Spanish civil war, on the Republican side.
7. First flew in 1926

elmshoot

My Feedback: (6)

I have it, you have me doing the internet searching thing. Is it just you and me working the crowd? If so i will post but I will keep quiet for now.
needless to say there are a whole lot of planes out there I have never heard of.
Sparky

uncljoe

My Feedback: (8)

post it.

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

I've got it as well. But I've been just too darn busy to come up with a follow up question right at the moment. If nobody has the answer by tonight then I'll see if I can come up with a new quiz and then I'll post my answer.

Ken

uncljoe

My Feedback: (8)

SAVOIA-Marchetti SM 62

stevegauth30

Thats what i like so much about this, So many planes out there that i never heard of. I just been too darn tired after work lately to hit up google.

JohnnyS

And we have a winner!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savoia-Marchetti_SM.62 The Italians did a lot of neat stuff with flying boats. I once found an old National Geographic with the story of Balbo's trip around the world in seaplanes.

Take it away, uncljoe!!!

uncljoe

My Feedback: (8)

Give me a few hours & I'll have a question
Joe

uncljoe

My Feedback: (8)

The aircraft I'm thinking of
1.Delivered nine days after it's inital flight
2. Prototype had a lower cockpit canopy.this was raised on production aircraft to improve visibilty on take off & landing