FlyerInOKC

My Feedback: (6)

You beat me to it, I had to work this morning. As your reward I'll throw out the first guess. Zeppelin-Dornier D.1. Only 5 ever built.

Hydro Junkie

Not a problem, I'm actually at work now and no, not the D.1
I will give you another two clues for the attempt:
I'm going to go for an aircraft again:
1) There was only a few built prior to production being halted
2) This plane was a single seater
3) Roughly half of the production run was lost during non-combat missions
Good Luck

JohnnyS

Fokker D.VIII?

Hydro Junkie

Not the D.VIII
Time for another pair of clues:
I'm going to go for an aircraft again:
1) There was only a few built prior to production being halted
2) This plane was a single seater
3) Roughly half of the production run was lost during non-combat missions
4) Only one plane was lost in a combat area
5) The plane was "retired" due to political reasons
Good Luck

Hydro Junkie

And, once again, it's time for another set of clues:
I'm going to go for an aircraft again:
1) There was only a few built prior to production being halted
2) This plane was a single seater
3) Roughly half of the production run was lost during non-combat missions
4) Only one plane was lost in a combat area
5) The plane was "retired" due to political reasons
6) The plane that replaced the plane in question was selected due to a different equipment layout, necessary to get around the "political issue"
7) The plane, like others over the years, proved to be fast enough to be immune to being intercepted
8) The plane that replaced the one in question was actually slightly slower that the one in question but was also immune to being intercepted
Good Luck

Hydro Junkie

Since I don't see any guesses, it's time for another set of late night clues:
I'm going to go for an aircraft again:
1) There was only a few built prior to production being halted
2) This plane was a single seater
3) Roughly half of the production run was lost during non-combat missions
4) Only one plane was lost in a combat area
5) The plane was "retired" due to political reasons
6) The plane that replaced the plane in question was selected due to a different equipment layout, necessary to get around the "political issue"
7) The plane, like others over the years, proved to be fast enough to be immune to being intercepted
8) This plane was powered by twin engines
9) This plane had tricycle landing gear
8) The plane that replaced the one in question was actually slightly slower that the one in question but was also immune to being intercepted
Good Luck

JohnnyS

Lockheed A-12?

Hydro Junkie

AND WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!!!!!
Time to cover the clues:
1) There was only a few built prior to production being halted There was only ten built before production changed to the SR-71
2) This plane was a single seater
3) Roughly half of the production run was lost during non-combat missions Five planes were lost while flying over the US Got the number incorrect, three went down. One in Utah May 1963, two over Nevada, one in January and a second in December 1967
4) Only one plane was lost in a combat area One went down in June 1968 over the South China Sea off the Philippine Islands
5) The plane was "retired" due to political reasons The plane was intended to overfly the Soviet Union. When Francis Gary Powers was shot down over the USSR in 1960, the US was forced to sign an agreement to not fly over the country, making the A-12 unable to do the task it was designed to do
6) The plane that replaced the plane in question was selected due to a different equipment layout, necessary to get around the "political issue" The A-12 had downward pointed cameras, the SR-71 had cameras and sensors that were pointed sideways so it could obtain information without flying over the Soviet Unions
7) The plane, like others over the years, proved to be fast enough to be immune to being intercepted The A-12 had a "top speed" of mach 3.3. Not even the Mig 25, specifically built to shoot down the supersonic mach 3.1 B-70 bombers, could catch it
8) This plane was powered by twin engines
9) This plane had tricycle landing gear
8) The plane that replaced the one in question was actually slightly slower that the one in question but was also immune to being intercepted The SR-71 had a top speed of mach 3.2

Ernie P.

My Feedback: (3)

While JohnnyS is getting his question ready, I have a side bar question. Why was the SR-71 limited to Mach 3.2? Why is Mach 3.2 a "barrier" to speed? Thanks; Ernie P.

Hydro Junkie

Not really sure. It could be the aft end of the fuse resulted in more drag due to the different shape or the fact that the SR-71 had camera and sensor ports along both sides of the lower fuse while the A-12 had them running in a line down the center of the bottom. Here are a couple of excerpts from my source:
Early in 1963, the A-12 made its first flight with two of the J58 engines. During this year, the program experienced its first Blackbird loss when an A-12 crashed near Wendover, Utah on May 24th. Also, the aircraft made its first flight at Mach 3.2, the speed that the aircraft was intended to fly at in November.
The estimated maximum speed of the aircraft is Mach 3.2 and some sources say that it can accelerate to Mach 3.5. The estimated maximum altitude is 85,000 feet but some sources say that the SR-71 can fly up to 100,000 feet and can probably go even higher.
Here's another interesting "tidbit":
The SR-71 is the fastest and highest flying production aircraft in the world. The only aircraft that is faster is the X-15 that can reach a speed of over 4,000 mph. The only aircraft ever to come close to the SR-71's speed besides the X-15 is the Russian MiG-25 Foxbat. The MiG-25 could only reach speeds of over Mach 3 for a few minutes. The Anglo-French Concorde is the only aircraft besides the SR-71 that can fly at supersonic speeds for hours at a time.

JohnnyS

I have GOT to stop guessing these quizzes when I don't have a question ready.

I'll try to come up with something today...

Ernie P.

My Feedback: (3)

The answer is right in your statement above, Hydro Junkie. There was a fundamental difference (besides the engine type) between the X-15 and SR-71. What was it?

I will offer a clue to the right answer. I was talking to a very knowledgeable friend, about the SR-71. We were actually looking at one at the time. I asked why an aircraft that very obviously could not turn sharply was designed with such large rudders and elevators. His answer is also the answer to my question. Thanks; Ernie P.

Hydro Junkie

I know the altitude made the large control surfaces desirable. The air was so thin that small surfaces were of little use. Also, if the plane was flying with any positive pitch, the control surfaces would be masked by the wings and engines which was the same issue the F-14 had with its vertical tails, hence the fins under the engines on the Tomcat. IIRC, the X-15 also had wedge shaped "tail feathers" rather than true airfoils

Ernie P.

My Feedback: (3)

QUOTE=Hydro Junkie;12407319]I know the altitude made the large control surfaces desirable. The air was so thin that small surfaces were of little use. Also, if the plane was flying with any positive pitch, the control surfaces would be masked by the wings and engines which was the same issue the F-14 had with its vertical tails, hence the fins under the engines on the Tomcat. IIRC, the X-15 also had wedge shaped "tail feathers" rather than true airfoils[/QUOTE]

You're on the right track, Hydro Junkie. Not quite there; but I'll give you the rest of it. Every plane traveling through fast through the air creates a "bow wave", similar to the high speed photos we've all seen of bullets flying through the air. As the plane travels faster, the bow wave increases in size. At around Mach 3.2, that "bow wave" will completely mask the control surfaces, rendering them ineffective. At near Mach 3.0, the only part of the control surfaces on the SR-71 which were still flying in "clean air" were the last few inches. Had the control surfaces been a bit smaller (actually, "shorter" would be the correct word), the effect would have occurred at a lower speed.

At Mach 3.2, even those huge control surfaces were completely masked by the bow wave. Above Mach 3.2, you have to use thrusters to control pitch and yaw. Think about the space shuttle on reentry; it uses thrusters. And, of course, the X-15 had to use thrusters until it had slowed below Mach 3.2. Obviously, at really fast speeds, any sudden course deviation would tear the airframe apart. We lost one of the X-15's because something apparently went wrong with the controls. The X-15 used three different means to control pitch and yaw. Something went wrong, and the aircraft disintegrated.

This is why Mach 3.2 is considered to be a "barrier" to conventional aircraft. Thanks; Ernie P.

grbaker

My Feedback: (29)

Thanks for the speed lesson!! I'll definitely try to stay below mach 3.2

JohnnyS

Thanks very much to Ernie P for that info. The Lockheed Mach 3+ birds are VERY cool aircraft! I've always wondered about this story: https://sploid.gizmodo.com/5511236/t...r-71-blackbird I'm not disbelieving or disrespecting what is written there, but just how fast DID they go?

OK, let's see what we can do for a new question.

1. First flew soon after WWII.
2. Still flying in both military and civilian use.
3. Used as a bomber as late as 1991.
4. Very versatile aircraft.

elmshoot

My Feedback: (6)

C-130

elmshoot

My Feedback: (6)

I just checked your link Brian Shul is the real deal. He has about a 70 minute u tube video that is quite a moving tribute to the machine and man.

Sparky

JohnnyS

Not the herky-bird, elmshoot! But a new xlue is earned!

Ernie P.

My Feedback: (3)

The MiG 15, and actually the MiG 17, seems to fit. Thanks; Ernie P.


The Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-15 (Russian: Микоян и Гуревич МиГ-15; USAF/DoD designation: Type 14; NATO reporting name: Fagot) was a jet fighter aircraft developed by Mikoyan-Gurevich for the Soviet Union. The MiG-15 was one of the first successful jet fighters to incorporate swept wings to achieve high transonic speeds. In combat over Korea, it outclassed straight-winged jet day fighters, which were largely relegated to ground-attack roles, and was quickly countered by the similar American swept-wing North American F-86 Sabre. The MiG-15 is often mentioned, along with the F-86 Sabre, as the best fighter aircraft of the Korean War.[1]

When refined into the more advanced MiG-17, the basic design would again surprise the West when it proved effective against supersonic fighters such as the Republic F-105 Thunderchief and McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II in the Vietnam War of the 1960s.

The MiG-15 is believed to have been one of the most produced jet aircraft; in excess of 12,000 were manufactured.[2] Licensed foreign production may have raised the production total to over 18,000.[citation needed] The MiG-15 remains in service with the Korean People's Army Air Force as an advanced trainer.

Hydro Junkie

Let's get an obvious one out of the way. How about the Stearman C-1?

Hydro Junkie

The thing about the A-12, YF-12A, M-21 and SR-71 is that the J58 turbine engines operated like a ramjet above a certain speed. That made the SR-71, in theory anyway, capable of constant acceleration, only being limited by fuel load, aerodynamic drag and sufficient oxygen to burn the fuel. Since the internal workings of the turbines were basically just along for the ride, only enough fuel and air were provided to keep the engine running at speed to provide electrical and hydraulic power for the on-board systems, everything else was routed around the engines and to the afterburners which, truth be told, were what gave the plane it's speed. It was, for all general purposes, a "rocket" powered plane and not that dissimilar to the ME 163 Komet when you really think about it

JohnnyS

Good guesses all, Ernie P. and Hydro Junkie, but not what I'm looking for!

1. First flew soon after WWII.
2. Still flying in both military and civilian use.
3. Used as a bomber as late as 1991.
4. Very versatile aircraft.
5. They made a LOT of these for a very long time.
6. More than 40 countries used this aircraft in military roles.

Hydro Junkie

I misread the first clue, I thought it said right after WWI, not WWII.
How about the T-33?

JohnnyS

Not the T33, no.

1. First flew soon after WWII.
2. Still flying in both military and civilian use.
3. Used as a bomber as late as 1991.
4. Very versatile aircraft.
5. They made a LOT of these for a very long time.
6. More than 40 countries used this aircraft in military roles.
7. The most common variant was configured as a 12-seat passenger aircraft.