Ernie P.

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If ever an airplane was defined as being good, but second best, it has to be the Hawker Hurricane. Thanks; Ernie P.


The Hawker Hurricane is a British single-seat fighter aircraft of the 1930s–40s that was designed and predominantly built by Hawker Aircraft Ltd. for service with the Royal Air Force (RAF). It was overshadowed in the public consciousness by the Supermarine Spitfire's role during Battle of Britain in 1940, but the Hurricane actually inflicted 60 percent of the losses sustained by the Luftwaffe in the engagement, and it went on to fight in all the major theatres of the Second World War.


The Hurricane originated from discussions during the early 1930s between RAF officials and British aircraft designer Sir Sydney Camm on the topic of a proposed monoplane derivative of the Hawker Fury biplane. There was an institutional preference at the time for biplanes and a lack of interest from the Air Ministry, but Hawker chose to continue refining their monoplane proposal, which resulted in the incorporation of several innovations which became critical to wartime fighter aircraft, including a retractable undercarriage and a more powerful engine in the form of the newly developed Rolls-Royce Merlin. The Air Ministry placed an order for Hawker's Interceptor Monoplane in late 1934, and the prototype Hurricane K5083 performed its maiden flight on 6 November 1935.
In June 1936, the Hurricane was ordered into production by the Air Ministry; it entered squadron service on 25 December 1937. The manufacture and maintenance of the aircraft was eased by its use of conventional construction methods which enabled squadrons to perform many major repairs themselves without external support. The Hurricane was rapidly procured prior to the outbreak of the Second World War in September 1939, when the RAF had 18 Hurricane-equipped squadrons in service. The aircraft was relied upon to defend against the numerous and varied German aircraft operated by the Luftwaffe, including dogfighting with the capable Messerschmitt Bf 109 in multiple theatres of action.
The Hurricane developed through several versions, as bomber-interceptors, fighter-bombers, and ground support aircraft in addition to fighters. Versions designed for the Royal Navy were popularly known as the Sea Hurricane, with modifications enabling their operation from ships. Some were converted to be used as catapult-launched convoy escorts. By the end of production in July 1944, 14,487 Hurricanes had been completed in Britain and Canada.

Hydro Junkie

Some say the same thing about the P-40 series. It wasn't a true "dogfighter", but if properly handled, could hold it's own with any other fighter. Like the little F4F Wildcat, it did an admirable job until better fighters came on line

Ernie P.

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Agreed, Sir. I wasn't actually thinking about "second best" as being a comparison with enemy fighters; rather an aircraft often ignored because there was a slightly better friendly aircraft being flown at the same time. The P-40 and Wildcat could both hold their own if used correctly. Thanks; Ernie P.

CF105

Ernie P.

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Sir; I certainly don't think this is the answer, but let's get it out of the way. How about the Mustang? The early Mustangs (Called Mustang Mark I by the Brits) were designed for a different role than the P-51 versions that followed later. Thanks; Ernie P.


The Mustang was initially developed for the RAF, which was its first user. As the first Mustangs were built to British requirements, these aircraft used factory numbers and were not P-51s; the order comprised 320 NA-73s, followed by 300 NA-83s, all of which were designated North American Mustang Mark I by the RAF. The first RAF Mustangs supplied under Lend-Lease were 93 P-51s, designated Mk Ia, followed by 50 P-51As used as Mustang Mk IIs. Aircraft supplied to Britain under Lend-Lease were required for accounting purposes to be on the USAAC's books before they could be supplied to Britain. However, the British Aircraft Purchasing Commission signed its first contract for the North American NA-73 on 24 April 1940, before Lend-Lease was in effect. Thus, the initial order for the P-51 Mustang (as it was later known) was placed by the British under the "cash and carry" program, as required by the US Neutrality Acts of the 1930s.


After the arrival of the initial aircraft in the UK in October 1941, the first Mustang Mk Is entered service in January 1942, the first unit being 26 Squadron RAF. Due to poor high-altitude performance, the Mustangs were used by Army Co-operation Command, rather than Fighter Command, and were used for tactical reconnaissance and ground-attack duties. On 10 May 1942, Mustangs first flew over France, near Berck-sur-Mer. On 27 July 1942, 16 RAF Mustangs undertook their first long-range reconnaissance mission over Germany. During the amphibious Dieppe Raid on the French coast (19 August 1942), four British and Canadian Mustang squadrons, including 26 Squadron, saw action covering the assault on the ground. By 1943–1944, British Mustangs were used extensively to seek out V-1 flying bomb sites. The last RAF Mustang Mk I and Mustang Mk II aircraft were struck off charge in 1945.

Hydro Junkie

It could also be the Brewster Buffalo. It was the first choice of the US Navy, over the F4F-2 Wildcat, when the Admiralty decided they wanted a monoplane rather than a biplane for their new carrier based fighter. The F4F-3 Wildcat, an approved developmental project by the Navy, clearly outperformed the Buffalo and, fortunately for the US , became the standard carrier based fighter just prior to the attack on Pearl Harbor. While the Buffalo was an effective fighter for the Finnish Air Force, it was a death trap when flown against the Japanese A6M at Midway

Ernie P.

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Okay; how about the B-24? When compared with the B-17, it is often considered "second best", but it carried more bombload, and flew faster and farther. Thanks; Ernie P.

Hydro Junkie

But it also had a wing that couldn't stand up to battle damage. More B-24s were lost due to a large caliber hit or two in a wing than any other damage. Many B-17s got home with holes in the wings that would have downed the B-24

Ernie P.

My Feedback: (3)

And maybe that's why the B-24 is considered "second best". Well, that and the hydraulic control of the flight surfaces, which wasn't as robust as the cable system in the B-17. And maybe that the B-24 couldn't hold formation as well. There is usually a reason things are as they are. Thanks; Ernie P.

FlyerInOKC

My Feedback: (6)

Not to mention if you had to ditch in water the B-17 stayed intact and the B-24 would break apart lowering the survival rate.

CF105

A flurry of good guesses, but none correct! However it certainly rates a bonus clue in addition to the daily:

1 - A significant aircraft yet often considered “second best”.

2 - It’s “deficiencies” could be blamed on different design requirements compared to its stablemate.

3 - However those requirements resulted in a more versatile aircraft.

4 - Those who flew in them really liked them. Possibly even over their "better" stablemate.

5 - For one thing, if things went south, you were more likely to survive.

Ernie P.

My Feedback: (3)

The last clue immediately brings two planes to mind; the P-47 and the P-38. Thanks; Ernie P.

Hydro Junkie

I was thinking the B-25 as well. With twin engines and twin tails, it had a better than average chance of getting home when compared to similar aircraft

CF105

More good, yet incorrect, choices. But I'll give a bonus clue:

1 - A significant aircraft yet often considered “second best”.

2 - It’s “deficiencies” could be blamed on different design requirements compared to its stablemate.

3 - However those requirements resulted in a more versatile aircraft.

4 - Those who flew in them really liked them. Possibly even over their "better" stablemate.

5 - For one thing, if things went south, you were more likely to survive.

6 - A change of engine in later designs gave it a noticeable increase in performance, as well as increased reliability and survivability.

Hydro Junkie

That clue again points to the Mustang, Wildcat and P-40, but also adds the P-36, Spitfire and FW-190 to the list

Ernie P.

My Feedback: (3)

Yeah, but we've already had the P-51 ruled out. I have really been thinking about the Fw-190. It meets all the clues; although I'm not sure anyone ever really thought the Me-109 was superior. Thanks; Ernie P.

elmshoot

My Feedback: (6)

Air Cobra and King Cobra
F-102 and F106 (aka F-102b)

elmshoot

My Feedback: (6)

F-14 and F-14D
B-1 and B-1b

Hydro Junkie

I don't think the B-1 and B-1B would really apply. The B-1 was originally cancelled since it was originally a high level supersonic nuclear bomber that depended on speed to get to the target. With the improvement of Soviet missiles and control systems, that attack profile became a suicide run. The B-1B was revived as a rework that changed the planes attack profile to a low level transonic plane that used terrain following radar and ground clutter to keep from getting spotted and shot down.
As far as the F-14, Grumman didn't just jump from the F-14 to the F-14D. There was a series of upgrades, one of which included a new engine. During my two "WestPacs", the four fighter squadrons on board flew the F-14A version of the Tomcat. What was funny is the plane I worked on, the EA-6B Prowler, was actually faster in level flight than the Tomcat was without using the afterburners. When the new engines were installed, the Tomcat could pull away easily at less than full throttle

CF105

Some interesting guesses, but all off the mark. Worthy of a bonus in addition to the daily clue:

1 - A significant aircraft yet often considered “second best”.

2 - It’s “deficiencies” could be blamed on different design requirements compared to its stablemate.

3 - However those requirements resulted in a more versatile aircraft.

4 - Those who flew in them really liked them. Possibly even over their "better" stablemate.

5 - For one thing, if things went south, you were more likely to survive.

6 - A change of engine in later designs gave it a noticeable increase in performance, as well as increased reliability and survivability.

7 - Saw service with at least four nations.

8 - No airworthy examples exist today.

elmshoot

My Feedback: (6)

I'm checking my resources....

Sparky

Hydro Junkie

I heard that from a Tomcat pilot during work ups for my first cruise. He landed and, when he got out of his plane, was complaining about how he had to go to stage 1 to catch one of the Prowlers. His RIO followed that up with a statement about how he was tracking the Prowler and it was slowly pulling away when they were at full throttle. The Tomcat they were in was the -A, so who knows

Ernie P.

My Feedback: (3)

I'm not at all sure the last clue didn't blow my next line of thought all over the place, but I was thinking about the F-5, which was thought of as a rival to the F-16 when it came to the export market. The F-16 won out, but the re-engined F-5 was a hot rod all in its own. I'm not sure if any of the original F-5A's are still flying, but possibly are. Thanks; Ernie P.


Answer: Northrop F-5A and F-5B/F-5E and F-5F

The Northrop F-5A and F-5B Freedom Fighter and the F-5E and F-5F Tiger II are part of a supersonic light fighter family, initially designed in the late 1950s by Northrop Corporation. Being smaller and simpler than contemporaries such as the McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II, the F-5 cost less to both procure and operate, making it a popular export aircraft. The F-5 started life as a privately funded light fighter program by Northrop in the 1950s. The design team wrapped a small, highly aerodynamic fighter around two compact and high-thrust General Electric J85 engines, focusing on performance and low cost of maintenance. Though primarily designed for the day air superiority role, the aircraft is also a capable ground-attack platform. The F-5A entered service in the early 1960s. During the Cold War, over 800 were produced through 1972 for U.S. allies. Though the United States Air Force (USAF) had no need for a light fighter, it did procure approximately 1,200 Northrop T-38 Talon trainer aircraft, which were directly based on the F-5A.

After winning the International Fighter Aircraft competition in 1970, a program aimed at providing effective low-cost fighters to American allies, Northrop introduced the second-generation F-5E Tiger II in 1972. This upgrade included more powerful engines, higher fuel capacity, greater wing area and improved leading edge extensions for a better turn rate, optional air-to-air refueling, and improved avionics including air-to-air radar. Primarily used by American allies, it remains in US service to support training exercises. It has served in a wide array of roles, being able to perform both air and ground attack duties; the type was used extensively in the Vietnam War. A total of 1,400 Tiger IIs were built before production ended in 1987. More than 3,800 F-5 and the closely related T-38 advanced trainer aircraft were produced in Hawthorne, California. The F-5N/F variants are in service with the United States Navy and United States Marine Corps as an adversary trainer. Approximately 500 aircraft are in service as of 2014.

The F-5 was also developed into a dedicated reconnaissance version, the RF-5 Tigereye. The F-5 also served as a starting point for a series of design studies which resulted in the Northrop YF-17 and the F/A-18 navalized fighter aircraft. The Northrop F-20 Tigershark was an advanced variant to succeed the F-5E which was ultimately canceled when export customers did not emerge.

In comparison to later fighters, the improved F-5E had some weaknesses; these included marginal acceleration, rearward visibility, and fuel fraction, and a lack of Beyond Visual Range (BVR) weapons once such radar guided missiles became reliable during the 1980s. The F-5G, later renamed the F-20 Tigershark, aimed to correct these weaknesses while maintaining a small size and low cost to produce a competitive fighter. Compared to the F-5E, it had 60% more power, a higher climb rate and acceleration, better cockpit visibility, more modern radar and BVR capability, and competitive performance with fourth generation fighters. Like the F-5, it had better cost effectiveness as it had the minimum necessary features relative to its competition to perform its air superiority mission. As an example, in the 1960s and early 1970s, the F-5's lack of BVR missiles was not a significant disadvantage as the kill rate of such missiles was approximately 8% to 10%, and the performance and loss of surprise (radar warning to the enemy) cost of carrying them was not practically justified. By the early 1980s, the American AIM-7 Sparrow radar-guided missile in its "M" version was realistically exceeding a 60% kill rate, and was integrated onto the F-20.

Brigadier General Chuck Yeager, test pilot and the first man to break the sound barrier, referred to the F-20 as "the finest fighter".
Despite its performance and cost effectiveness, the F-20 lost out for foreign sales against the similarly capable, more expensive F-16, which was being procured in large numbers by the U.S. Air Force and was viewed as having greater support.

Hydro Junkie

I'm thinking the F-4 Phantom myself.

CF105

Looks like I've got the gears turning! No correct guesses (but some fine aircraft!). I'd say you've earned a bonus clue:

1 - A significant aircraft yet often considered “second best”.

2 - It’s “deficiencies” could be blamed on different design requirements compared to its stablemate.

3 - However those requirements resulted in a more versatile aircraft.

4 - Those who flew in them really liked them. Possibly even over their "better" stablemate.

5 - For one thing, if things went south, you were more likely to survive.

6 - A change of engine in later designs gave it a noticeable increase in performance, as well as increased reliability and survivability.

7 - Saw service with at least four nations.

8 - No airworthy examples exist today.

9 - Saw service in Europe, the Mediterranean, North Africa and he Far East.