RC Warbirds and Warplanes Discuss rc warbirds and warplanes in this forum.

ESM P47 Build

Reply
Old 08-22-2011, 02:25 PM
  #151
VIRGINIA MODEL BUILDERS
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: GLEN ALLEN, VA
Posts: 331
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ESM P47 Build

Truthfully I would have to say I pressurize them
VIRGINIA MODEL BUILDERS is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2011, 05:14 PM
  #152
oldtimer4759
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Qld, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 308
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ESM P47 Build

hi, if there is no air in the system you can use a small common screw driver to ease the locking bar on the end of the piston rod out of the lock mechanism, the strut end, then move them up and down by hand until you get them where you want them, then start off with just small amount of air pressure. You will need air flow restrictors in the system, there are several mentioned in this thread, without them they bang up and bang down, the restrictors make it look a lot more scale like.

Oldtimer.
oldtimer4759 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2011, 08:10 AM
  #153
VIRGINIA MODEL BUILDERS
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: GLEN ALLEN, VA
Posts: 331
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ESM P47 Build

I saw you received advice from a knowledgeable party.Please if you plan to trigger the release by hand, do not use a screw driver. Use a plastic knife or similar so you do not risk scoring any part of the mechanism.
VIRGINIA MODEL BUILDERS is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2011, 05:01 AM
  #154
mmn
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Posts: 146
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ESM P47 Build

Well, I sprung for the dbalsa cockpit kit. It was quite a lot of work - more than the plane itself in hours. But the results are good. If anyone is interested in this kit the instructions are good, the pics are good (except for a few out of focus), but I have a couple of things in addition from the experience:
[ul][*] When I built the floor I was trying to get it as low as I could without having to re-engineer the rudder cables. I did lower the rudder servo about half an inch and the rudder cables run right underneath the floor. If I had it do again I would go ahead and try to get the floor another half inch lower. Things that go on the sides near the floor would fit better and the pilot's legs could easily extend under the dash.
[*]I might also make it a shade wider than in the pics. Maybe 1/4 to 3/8 inch. It's pretty tight in there and a lot of detail on the sides is hidden by the pilot and seat.
[*]It would be nice to figure out a sliding canopy arrangement for display on the ground. Can't see the nice detail with that canopy on there.
[*]I built the thing with the air tank installed up over the servo tray. With the cockpit in there that tank is no longer accessible. Doh!
[/ul]
Overall, a rewarding experience for those who like to build - it is definitely a builder's kit. And it really adds to the plane.

Regards
Michael
mmn is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2012, 01:59 PM
  #155
hairy46
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sinclair, WY
Posts: 2,202
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ESM P47 Build

I just bought one of the ESM P-47s can you get the electric retracts for them and if so how much?
hairy46 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2012, 02:21 PM
  #156
VIRGINIA MODEL BUILDERS
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: GLEN ALLEN, VA
Posts: 331
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ESM P47 Build

Esm electric retracts for this plane are $149.95 plus $20.00 shipping within the continental USA
VIRGINIA MODEL BUILDERS is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2012, 09:30 PM
  #157
hairy46
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sinclair, WY
Posts: 2,202
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ESM P47 Build

Thank you!!!!
hairy46 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2012, 04:46 AM
  #158
Pull Up Now!
 
Pull Up Now!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Northfield, MN
Posts: 702
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ESM P47 Build

Hey, is anyone else besides me still building the ESM P47 Thunderbolt? I just received this kit from Troy Built Models. Unfortunately, they sent the silver fuselage when I ordered the camo paint scheme. The wings and tail are correct. I wrote Jeff at TBM last night. Will be interesting to see how they propose to resolve this. Has anyone else needed to return something to TBM? Will they make me pay return shipping???? Sure hope not. Expensive, and not my fault. I'll report what they say.

Does anyone have any recent experience on retracts? One post said Lado is the way to go. Robarts now has electric retracts, so I'm not sure if I'll go air or electric. I was at Warbirds over Owatonna in Minnesota last weekend and there were multiple failures of air retracts. Kind of a scary decision. I'd like to hear anyone's recent building experience on this kit. Thanks!
Pull Up Now! is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2012, 07:17 AM
  #159
Pull Up Now!
 
Pull Up Now!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Northfield, MN
Posts: 702
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ESM P47 Build

Would like to hear from folks using this ESM P47 Thunderbolt as their winter building project. I'm still working on mine. Did a tailwheel retract system (very complicated). I'd especially like to know what paint people are using to touch up the camo grey color. The canopy for the camo version is still bright silver. What grey matches the paint from ESM??

If anyone is still interested, I'll post a pic and video of the tail wheel retract system. I also have pics of my cutting out an existing hatch along the molded panel lines, and hiding the receiver and ignition switches inside.
Pull Up Now! is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2012, 12:47 PM
  #160
warbirdfan2
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: , PA
Posts: 77
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ESM P47 Build

Yes I'm interested.... I just got the blue nose P51 from them and am looking for Ideas,And would also like to get the P47... Post away
warbirdfan2 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2012, 06:13 AM
  #161
Pull Up Now!
 
Pull Up Now!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Northfield, MN
Posts: 702
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ESM P47 Build

Here are a few pictures of what I have done so far on the ESM P47 Thunderbolt. Originally I bought the Troybuilt Models tail wheel retract. That was a mistake IMHO. When it's retracted, it becomes self locking and won't come back out. The servo adjustment must be backed off from the endpoint so much (to keep if from locking) that the overall range is severely limited. So, I opted for an Eflite nose gear electric retract and adapted it to fit the tail wheel strut. The Eflite retract powers the doors, both open and close. The closing is done with nylon fishing line, and the opening is done with two belcranks. When the retract is not deployed, the wheel, inside the fuse, does not turn. It only turns when the wheel is down. Yes, I could have gone with door actuators and sequencers, but I like the challenge of making things work with what's already there.

As for the silver colored canopy, my son Googled the model's tail number and found out the silver-lined canopy is indeed scale, on the real ship. But, it's too shiny so now I'll just coat it with flat clear to tone it done. Here's some pictures of the hidden power switches I made, and a link to a video of the retract in action. You'll notice some jerkiness to the wheel turning. That doesn't happen when the model is on the ground with the forward motion keeping the wheel castering.

http://youtu.be/cAOqoRZaKIc

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Us55396.jpg
Views:	107
Size:	101.2 KB
ID:	1829840   Click image for larger version

Name:	Nj25419.jpg
Views:	125
Size:	98.6 KB
ID:	1829841   Click image for larger version

Name:	Lq37289.jpg
Views:	106
Size:	83.6 KB
ID:	1829842   Click image for larger version

Name:	Xr45943.jpg
Views:	110
Size:	106.9 KB
ID:	1829843  
Pull Up Now! is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 02:37 PM
  #162
Pull Up Now!
 
Pull Up Now!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Northfield, MN
Posts: 702
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ESM P47 Build

HELP, I need some information from any of you who have built the ESM P47D from Troy Built Models. What is your all-up weight? I'm concerned because, with Robarts electric retracts, my plane weights 20.32 lbs after balancing. The manual says it's supposed to have a flying weight of 15 lbs! I've calculated a wing loading of 36 oz/ft2 and a stall speed of 24mph flaps up. Has anyone else arrived at a final weight approaching this? The main retracts are Robart electric, and the tailsheel is a small Eflite nosewheel retract adapted to accept a tailwheel strut. Here's a picture of the plane. The cowl and canopy are just taped on, and there is no engine installed yet. Inside the cowl sits chunks of aluminum and steel, added until the plane just balances. Later on, I'll weight the engine, and only add the difference into the plane. Thanks!
Pull Up Now! is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 02:39 PM
  #163
Pull Up Now!
 
Pull Up Now!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Northfield, MN
Posts: 702
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ESM P47 Build

HELP, I need some information from any of you who have built the ESM P47D from Troy Built Models. What is your all-up weight? I'm concerned because, with Robarts electric retracts, my plane weights 20.32 lbs after balancing. The manual says it's supposed to have a flying weight of 15 lbs! I've calculated a wing loading of 36 oz/ft2 and a stall speed of 24mph flaps up. Has anyone else arrived at a final weight approaching this? The main retracts are Robart electric, and the tailsheel is a small Eflite nosewheel retract adapted to accept a tailwheel strut. Here's a picture of the plane. The cowl and canopy are just taped on, and there is no engine installed yet. Inside the cowl sits chunks of aluminum and steel, added until the plane just balances. Later on, I'll weight the engine, and only add the difference into the plane. Thanks!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Lj23487.jpg
Views:	82
Size:	100.9 KB
ID:	1837096  
Pull Up Now! is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 07:47 PM
  #164
oldtimer4759
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Qld, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 308
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ESM P47 Build

hi, mine came in about 14.7 lbs, no added weight, I dont have a retract tail wheel, I also run 2 x 5 cell flight packs, plus the 4 cell engine pack, all 2000 mah, all up in the nose just behind the firewall. ESM air retracts, DLE 30 engine, flys like a dream, VERY happy with it
Oldtimer
oldtimer4759 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2013, 02:06 AM
  #165
Pull Up Now!
 
Pull Up Now!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Northfield, MN
Posts: 702
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ESM P47 Build

Thanks for the info. My guess is the tail wheel retract is really costing me a lot of weight. I went back inside the model and threw everything I could forward. Rebalanced it, and this time it came to 17.8 lbs. A big improvement, but still heavy. Now it's 32 oz/ft2, with a 21mph stall speed. For safety, I have TWO elevator servos, meaning that I have to compensate for an extra pushrod, clevis, and control horn. All aft of the CG!
Pull Up Now! is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2013, 07:21 AM
  #166
glazier808
 
glazier808's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Honolulu , HI
Posts: 3,985
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ESM P47 Build

My electric ESM 109 came in at 18lbs, and still flys great. I do always try to land it on the mains with a little speed. I never try to float it in for a three pointer though, as I'm sure of the outcome.
Casey
glazier808 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2013, 10:38 AM
  #167
Chad Veich
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Litchfield Park, AZ
Posts: 7,430
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ESM P47 Build

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Pull Up Now!

Thanks for the info. My guess is the tail wheel retract is really costing me a lot of weight. I went back inside the model and threw everything I could forward. Rebalanced it, and this time it came to 17.8 lbs. A big improvement, but still heavy. Now it's 32 oz/ft2, with a 21mph stall speed. For safety, I have TWO elevator servos, meaning that I have to compensate for an extra pushrod, clevis, and control horn. All aft of the CG!

On a 71 inch Jug 32 oz/ft2 would be in the floater range. It sounded suspiciously light to me actually. Don't want to burst your bubble but I think you may be mis-calculating your wing loading. ESM provides the wing area as 5.95 sq/ft. Divide your total weight in ounces, 248.8, by 5.95 and the result is a wing loading of nearly 48 oz/ft2. That is still within reason for a six foot warbird and the 70 inch span Ziroli P-47 flies great in the 17-18 pound range as long as you have enough power to haul the weight. I imagine the ESM is no different.
Chad Veich is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2013, 04:06 PM
  #168
Pull Up Now!
 
Pull Up Now!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Northfield, MN
Posts: 702
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ESM P47 Build


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Chad Veich

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Pull Up Now!

Thanks for the info. My guess is the tail wheel retract is really costing me a lot of weight. I went back inside the model and threw everything I could forward. Rebalanced it, and this time it came to 17.8 lbs. A big improvement, but still heavy. Now it's 32 oz/ft2, with a 21mph stall speed. For safety, I have TWO elevator servos, meaning that I have to compensate for an extra pushrod, clevis, and control horn. All aft of the CG!

On a 71 inch Jug 32 oz/ft2 would be in the floater range. It sounded suspiciously light to me actually. Don't want to burst your bubble but I think you may be mis-calculating your wing loading. ESM provides the wing area as 5.95 sq/ft. Divide your total weight in ounces, 248.8, by 5.95 and the result is a wing loading of nearly 48 oz/ft2. That is still within reason for a six foot warbird and the 70 inch span Ziroli P-47 flies great in the 17-18 pound range as long as you have enough power to haul the weight. I imagine the ESM is no different.
Hey Chad, thanks for the information on wing loading. I was sure I did not make a math error, so I double checked the basic plane data I used, which is printed on the ESM P47 box. I've included pics from that label below. It turns out there is a huge discrepancy. The label lists the wing area as 8.95 ft2, whereas TBM's website uses 5.95 ft2. Also, the label's wingspan is wrong; it says 73.5 whereas the real wingspan is 71". Interestingly, TBM has corrected the wing area in their website's "SPEC" tab, but they still list the wrong wingspan. So, I created my own CAD model of the wing and made my own area calculation. Turns out, by my model, the area is 5.65 ft2. I did not count the center section where there is a huge round bubble that follows the fuse more than it is an airfoil.

Bottom line, Chad, you are right. The wing loading is far higher than I realized, thanks to the Chinese playing loose with the numbers. They really need to improve their accuracy.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Nl30411.jpg
Views:	46
Size:	44.5 KB
ID:	1837564   Click image for larger version

Name:	Yt61602.jpg
Views:	39
Size:	28.2 KB
ID:	1837565  
Pull Up Now! is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 03:46 AM
  #169
damagedgoodes
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Alice Springs, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 181
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ESM P47 Build

G'day Oldtimer,

My mate and I are soon to be finishing our P47's (he's in Darwin and I'm in Alice) and I was wondering where you settled on for you C of G and what rates you are happy with please.

Cheers,

Dave
damagedgoodes is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 08:27 AM
  #170
Pull Up Now!
 
Pull Up Now!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Northfield, MN
Posts: 702
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ESM P47 Build


Quote:
ORIGINAL: damagedgoodes

G'day Oldtimer,

My mate and I are soon to be finishing our P47's (he's in Darwin and I'm in Alice) and I was wondering where you settled on for you C of G and what rates you are happy with please.

Cheers,

Dave
Who's Alice?
Pull Up Now! is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 12:42 PM
  #171
vasek
 
vasek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Prague, CZECH REPUBLIC
Posts: 4,085
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ESM P47 Build

does "Almost" count ?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Mk25885.jpg
Views:	25
Size:	272.8 KB
ID:	1837857  
vasek is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 05:28 PM
  #172
oldtimer4759
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Qld, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 308
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ESM P47 Build

G'day Dave,
be a bit warm in Alice this time of year, but not as wet as Darwin,
just checked all my settings, first off, I don’t like sensitive controls, so these are what I fly, Ailerons, measured from the inside edge against the flap, 12mm up and 10mm down, low rates, high rates are more but I very rarely ever use them, Elevator, low rates, 8mm up for most of my flying, about 12mm if I want it to spin, measured from neutral at the widest point of the elevators, Flaps, first stage 20mm, full flap, 35mm, measured from the inside edge, I use full flap on landing, I didn’t measure the Rudder, but it doesn’t need a lot, about 15mm on take off. The important bit, the C of G, book said 136mm, (B/S) way too far back for me, I am flying at 120mm back from the centre join of the wing, it is very stable in flight, very nice to take off and lovely to land.
I have the air tank mounted in the belly pan under the wing, all air controls are on the wing, I did move the engine forward about 5mm, (spacers) to help with the CofG, still looks OK, the CDI is mounted on the top of the engine stand offs, up in the cowl, also to help with the CofG, check all the bolts on the retracts, mine were loose, put some silastic on the threads.
Hope this helps. been flying mine for a couple of years now, love it, Oldtimer.
oldtimer4759 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2013, 05:16 PM
  #173
damagedgoodes
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Alice Springs, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 181
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ESM P47 Build

G'day Oldtimer,

Thanks for the reply, much appreciated. Yes ESM love to give 3D C of G's to their warbirds customers I was aiming for 125mm but I'll start at 120mm like yourself.

It is hot at home but I escaped that and came up to Darwin for two weeks to get a wash.

When I get the other important jobs off the bench and hopefully get replacement V3 retracts from Austar's I can get this Jug finished and will let you know how it goes.

Cheers,

Dave
damagedgoodes is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2013, 05:03 PM
  #174
hairy46
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sinclair, WY
Posts: 2,202
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ESM P47 Build

Getting ready to start my ems p47 what engine and servos are most using? I do have a ys 140
hairy46 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2013, 08:58 AM
  #175
Pull Up Now!
 
Pull Up Now!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Northfield, MN
Posts: 702
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ESM P47 Build


Quote:
ORIGINAL: hairy46

Getting ready to start my ems p47 what engine and servos are most using? I do have a ys 140
I'm in a bit of the same dilemma. I need to do some HP calculations to feel good about this. I had intended to install a 31.5 cc Stihl 4-mix 4 stroke conversion I did. It runs fine, and the weight is reasonable, but I don't know how much HP this thing is developing. It runs an 18-8 at about 7500rpm. I'll need some power because the plane, with 3 retracts, will weight over 18lbs.

I have the opportunity to get a Zenoah G38 cheap. What do you guys think of that?
Pull Up Now! is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:13 AM.