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ESM P47 Build

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Old 02-02-2010, 07:29 AM
  #1
mmn
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Default ESM P47 Build

Hi

I've run into a small problem building an ESM P47 that I need some help with. The vertical stab is composite - very thin and hollow. The rudder is balsa. The hinges are Robart hinge points, 1/8 inch. The trailing edge of the stab is about maybe 3/16" thick. I just don't think that there's enough meat there to hold the hinges.

I've read several posts about how people have installed hinge points, but I didn't really find a situation like this.

I'm guessing all the ESM models are similar construction and maybe this is a non-issue, but it sure seems like a weak point. I've thought about trying one of the expanding glues, but the sides of the stab are so thin I'm afraid they might bulge.

Any suggestions?

Regards
Michael
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Old 02-02-2010, 09:57 AM
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Default RE: ESM P47 Build

Michael. There should be some bslsa blocks or a balsa strip on the inside of the trailing edge of the stab so the hinge point have something to hold on to. All the ones I have built the balsa strip was there.
JD
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Old 02-02-2010, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: jddickers

Michael. There should be some bslsa blocks or a balsa strip on the inside of the trailing edge of the stab so the hinge point have something to hold on to. All the ones I have built the balsa strip was there.
JD
There is a strip maybe 1/8" to 3/16" thick. Just doesn't seem like enough for a hinge point to latch on to. Maybe it is. Plans call for 4 hinge points. Maybe I should add a couple.

Regards
Michael
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Old 02-02-2010, 11:39 AM
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Default RE: ESM P47 Build

Michael
I'm too starting to build the ESM P-47. I have not gotten to the stab yet thanks for the heads up. But I did notice when I was in stalling the hinges for the flaps that two of three the hinges on one side were cut short and one on the other flap was also cut short. I didn't have a warm fuzzzy about them and I replaced them. The only reason I can see why they cut them short was the slot was not deep enough so they cut them short to fit. What size engine are you using?
Good luck with your build and keep us posted.
Carl
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Old 02-02-2010, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: DUFLID

Michael
I'm too starting to build the ESM P-47. I have not gotten to the stab yet thanks for the heads up. But I did notice when I was in stalling the hinges for the flaps that two of three the hinges on one side were cut short and one on the other flap was also cut short. I didn't have a warm fuzzzy about them and I replaced them. The only reason I can see why they cut them short was the slot was not deep enough so they cut them short to fit. What size engine are you using?
Good luck with your build and keep us posted.
Carl
Carl, I ran into this also. I was told it was because they would run into ribs in the wing and not to worry about it. I tried some full size ones in there and they fit, so that's what I went with.

As for progress and where I'm at:
[ul][*] Wing halves completed and glued together this morning. Includes ailerons, flaps, retracts (ESM), servos, air lines. Had to do some minor mods to get the retracts and wheel wells to fit properly.[*] Horizontal stabs, elevators glued and installed in fuse.[*] Working on the rudder now. Since the Robart hinge points are square at the hinge and need to be imbedded to half of the hinge pivot, I'm making square holes in the vertical stab TE using a small square file. Hoping there's enough glue surface that epoxy will hold them while not gluing the actual hinge pivot.
[/ul]

I'm planning on going with the Aerovate 26cc - my first gasser. I had originally planned on using an OS 1.20 4S, but was afraid I'd be adding too much weight to the nose because of the lighter engine and not get the pull I'm looking for. Also, there's three other ESMs being built locally here and they are all going with 26cc.

I had also initially installed standard servos in the wings, but I took them out and put in steel geared ones with higher torque. Gonna use those on all control surfaces and use standards on throttle and air valve.

Regards
Michael
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Old 02-03-2010, 02:42 PM
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Default RE: ESM P47 Build

For you who have built this, how did you mount the cowl? It looks like from the manual you screw the cowl on from inside the fuse. While it's possible for the top and two side screws, I don't see a way to do that with the bottom screw unless you cut an access hole in the fuse in the belly pan area.

The only other way I can see is to access through the front of the cowl. Easy with no engine, but prolly not possible with an engine mounted in there.

Regards
Michael
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Old 02-03-2010, 02:54 PM
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Default RE: ESM P47 Build

it is a bit tight i fitted captive nuts to the cowl ring, and made up a long ball end allen key to get the cowl done, used M4 cap head screws, works a treat, and took little time, and, i have a tool for future projects!! but dont do like i did, i spent an age getting it all right, teh glued the damned thing in the wring way round!!!!

mine, by the way, is having 645hi-tecs on the elevator, rudder, and flaps, and standard futaba 3001s on the ailerons, PLENTY power
gear will have a mini metal geared, throttle will have a 3001
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Old 02-03-2010, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: alanc

it is a bit tight i fitted captive nuts to the cowl ring, and made up a long ball end allen key to get the cowl done, used M4 cap head screws, works a treat, and took little time, and, i have a tool for future projects!! but dont do like i did, i spent an age getting it all right, teh glued the damned thing in the wring way round!!!!

mine, by the way, is having 645hi-tecs on the elevator, rudder, and flaps, and standard futaba 3001s on the ailerons, PLENTY power
gear will have a mini metal geared, throttle will have a 3001
Thanks for the tip. Ball end allen is the way to go if you do it from the inside. Do you see anything wrong with cutting an access hole in the fuse in the area covered by the belly pan? Seems like it would make things a lot easier and wouldn't show with the wing on. Can you get to that top one with the fuel tank mounted?

As for engine and electronics I'm going with:
[ul][*] Aerovate 26cc with Keleo muffler[*] Hitec HS-625MG ailerons, rudder/tw, elevator[*] Hitec HS-645MG flaps[*] Hitec HS-325HB throttle, air valve[*] Spektrum AR7000 rx[*] Battery tbd, prolly 6v 2000mah
[/ul]

Wing is done and mounted. Finding the right place to drill the holes for the wing dowels was a little tricky.

Regards
Michael
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Old 02-03-2010, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: jddickers

Michael. There should be some bslsa blocks or a balsa strip on the inside of the trailing edge of the stab so the hinge point have something to hold on to. All the ones I have built the balsa strip was there.
JD

This worked for me also. I built one last winter and flew it without any glitches last season, putitng 64 flights on it, and about 590 minutes of flying time. Engine: Evo26. I expect to put at least 100 flights on it this season.
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Old 02-04-2010, 02:07 AM
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Default RE: ESM P47 Build

MICHAEL,

TOMAS here from VQ WARBIRDS.com

Here is a great way to mount your cowling....

http://www.shopatron.com/products/pr...=999/101.0.1.1

Easy...simple... You may even paint your screws with some generic paint that is a close match and blend in the shiny screw heads!!

TO GET a DLE30 to fit...try mounting it not only inverted but also at the 7 or 8 oclock position to maximize width/angle geometry....



-CHEERS!

TOMAS
VQ WARBIRDS
"KEEP 'EM FLYING"

www.vqwarbirds.com
info@vqwarbirds.com
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Old 02-04-2010, 03:29 AM
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Default RE: ESM P47 Build

Can you check your link I cant get it to work, looks a great idea.
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Old 02-04-2010, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: kinverflyer

Can you check your link I cant get it to work, looks a great idea.
http://www.shopatron.com/products/pr...=999/101.0.1.1

Yeah, I think I'm gonna have to do something like this. I'm just sure I'm going to be removing that cowl a lot, and doing it from the inside, while a much cleaner look, is gonna drive me batty.

Here's another link:
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...P?I=LXWDH0&P=8

Regards
Michael
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Old 02-05-2010, 03:33 AM
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Great, many thanks, I will see if I can find them here in the UK
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Old 02-05-2010, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: kinverflyer

Great, many thanks, I will see if I can find them here in the UK
It's Du-bro part # 999 for the .90 and up and #998 for the .60 to .90 size planes.
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Old 02-11-2010, 09:01 AM
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Default RE: ESM P47 Build

I mounted my cowel with the screws on the inside. it is easy to do and not hard to remove with a long ball alen
tom
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Old 02-11-2010, 09:09 AM
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Default RE: ESM P47 Build

Here are some more pics and a video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls4560sDPeM
Tom

The tail is thin but is fine the ca hinges work fine and hold tight. I slid a peace of foam into the stab after sanding to fit. I used gorila glue to secure it, it expands a bit.
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Old 02-11-2010, 09:10 AM
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Default RE: ESM P47 Build

sorry here are the pics
tom
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Old 03-11-2010, 08:13 AM
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Default RE: ESM P47 Build

Hi

I've got about 5 flights on this thing now. The Aerovate 26cc engine is running in great. Got a 16x8 APC on it and it's got some nice thrust, good speed.

Couple of small probs:

[ul][*] I'm having some trouble with the muffler bolts coming loose. I've tried some red loctite and some of the red hi-temp Permatex gasket goo. One of the guys at our field has speculated that the bolts might be a couple of thousands off in size. I'm thinking of replacing the bolts with studs and using JB Weld or something to lock them in. Glad I made the cowl easy to get on and off. Anyone else having this problem and found a solution?
[*]One of the wheel wells shattered and blew out in flight. Hanging by the air tubing, I almost lost the plane due to the drag. I used silicone sealant on them in the build and they seemed real solid. I think I'm going to take them out and just sheet in and paint the wells. Took a piece of the covering cut out from the well to Home Depot and they matched the paint exactly.
[/ul]

Regards
-Michael

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Old 03-11-2010, 08:46 AM
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Default RE: ESM P47 Build

michael
I am using a crrc 26 an have had the same problem with the pipe coming loose. I fownd that that the fire wall was moving after the 8th flight or so. I gorila glued the inside of the fuse at the firewall. The wood didn't come loose the fiberglass was geting weak around the wood plate. you could see the paint starting to crack. After I fixed the problem I haven't had to fix the muffler agan. I have had to do this on all my esm warbirds that I have. Both p-47 and a fw190. It looks like the models were realy desined for glow. The extra vibration that the gas motors produce is to much with out reenforcment of the firewall. Hope this helped.
Tom
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Old 03-11-2010, 10:31 AM
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Hi Tom,

Nice job on the P-47.
What did you use for the panels lines and door openings on the wings? They look good!

Dave
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Old 03-11-2010, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: tom2bell

michael
I am using a crrc 26 an have had the same problem with the pipe coming loose. I fownd that that the fire wall was moving after the 8th flight or so. I gorila glued the inside of the fuse at the firewall. The wood didn't come loose the fiberglass was geting weak around the wood plate. you could see the paint starting to crack. After I fixed the problem I haven't had to fix the muffler agan. I have had to do this on all my esm warbirds that I have. Both p-47 and a fw190. It looks like the models were realy desined for glow. The extra vibration that the gas motors produce is to much with out reenforcment of the firewall. Hope this helped.
Tom
Interesting. I can see how the gorilla glue would reinforce the firewall joints, but I don't see how it reduces the vibration that's causing the bolts to work loose. Does it somehow dampen the vibration by spreading it through out the plane rather than concentrating it in front of the firewall?

Regards
Michael
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Old 03-11-2010, 11:49 PM
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Default RE: ESM P47 Build

I had a problem with muffler bolts coming loose on an MT57. Also the bolt heads were recessed into the muffler so not accessible.

What I did was to get longer bolts and loknut a couple of nuts to them so that when tightened the bolt heads stood clear. Then I drilled the two bolt heads and wired them together after tightening them up.

Seems to be working so far.

Terry
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Old 03-13-2010, 12:24 AM
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I used a silver sharpy and #2 pencel and some harly exaust soot form the pipe
tom
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Old 03-13-2010, 01:22 AM
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Default RE: ESM P47 Build


Quote:
ORIGINAL: mmn

Hi

I've run into a small problem building an ESM P47 that I need some help with. The vertical stab is composite - very thin and hollow. The rudder is balsa. The hinges are Robart hinge points, 1/8 inch. The trailing edge of the stab is about maybe 3/16'' thick. I just don't think that there's enough meat there to hold the hinges.

I've read several posts about how people have installed hinge points, but I didn't really find a situation like this.

I'm guessing all the ESM models are similar construction and maybe this is a non-issue, but it sure seems like a weak point. I've thought about trying one of the expanding glues, but the sides of the stab are so thin I'm afraid they might bulge.

Any suggestions?

Regards
Michael
Here is one way to handle this. Use Gorilla glue. Install the glue in all the holes, install the hinges, then stand the surface vertical with the hinges down. The glue puddles around the hinge on the inside, and when dry, it has formed around the barbs and will never come out. You can do the other side of the hinges the same way. You'll destroy the tail before those hinges will come loose.
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Old 03-13-2010, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: tom2bell

I used a silver sharpy and #2 pencel and some harly exaust soot form the pipe
tom
Thanks, looks great. I've got all those things, cept maybe the skill. We'll see.

Michael
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