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Fliteskin ME 109F build thread

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Old 02-19-2010, 12:38 PM
  #51
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Default RE: Fliteskin ME 109F build thread

CMP ME-109 Yea I know..not as nice looking as this fliteskin...but..its electric
1st one used that Turnigy SK 6364 on 18x12 two blade
2nd one uses power 160 with 16x13 3 blade
Both setups on 10s 5000 and both perform the same.
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Old 02-19-2010, 12:51 PM
  #52
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Default RE: Fliteskin ME 109F build thread

Kahlog,

How many watts do you get using the 160 with the 3-blade prop on 10S? Where did you find the 16-13-3 prop? The best I can find are the Master Air 16-10-3 props. I wich someone would make a light weight 18-7 or 18-8 three blade. I four blade would be great too

Ty, you are running you 109 on electric...GREAT! Send me some photos and specs on it please.



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Old 02-19-2010, 01:01 PM
  #53
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Default RE: Fliteskin ME 109F build thread

Jmohn....on the 3 blade 16x13x3, I get about 2200 watts on the 160. On the 18x12 2 blade, I was getting 2400+ However, the speed is the same in the air and in both cases, the batteries were only 20c. With the turnigy motor though, its rated at 3150 watts, so a much biggter prop could be used if there is ground clearance. The CMP 109 has a shorter then scale gear stance(if you dont modify the wing)...so thats why I used only a 16x13 3blade or an 18x12 2 blade even with the Sierra giant retracts
The 3 blade prop is the APC 15.75x13x3

KMP also sells some 3 blade props.
16x13x3 (paint it to get rid of the hamilton standard decals)
http://www.kmp.ca/product_info.php?c...9818891fa93073

Ive seen a few others around, but are super expensive. Mezjlik or Menz or something like that. Also...Solo props makes various sizes and in 2,3, and 4 blade.
http://www.soloprops.com/
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Old 02-19-2010, 01:05 PM
  #54
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Default RE: Fliteskin ME 109F build thread

I am getting almost 3000 watts using the 20-10-2 prop. That's a big difference [&:]

We need an 18-8 or 18-7 prop to get the full performance from the motor. It would also be nice to see someone make a larger gear drive motor so we could use less power and swing larger props.


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Old 02-19-2010, 01:41 PM
  #55
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Default RE: Fliteskin ME 109F build thread

OK.... you all make a good stand for the electrics. I'm glad to have the discussion, as I have everything else for the plane I need. I just can't make up my mind!


Ty, I wanted to say that that landing of your 109 was damn smoooooooth brother....you make the 109 look easy to fly...and easy to handle on the ground....any tips there? Good video editing lol....(thats what I would have to do)

Casey
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Old 02-19-2010, 01:44 PM
  #56
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Default RE: Fliteskin ME 109F build thread


Quote:
ORIGINAL: kahloq

CMP ME-109 Yea I know..not as nice looking as this fliteskin...but..its electric
1st one used that Turnigy SK 6364 on 18x12 two blade
2nd one uses power 160 with 16x13 3 blade
Both setups on 10s 5000 and both perform the same.
they look damn nice to me!

Casey
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Old 02-19-2010, 02:10 PM
  #57
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Default RE: Fliteskin ME 109F build thread


Quote:
ORIGINAL: kahloq


Quote:
ORIGINAL: glazier808

Well I have not totally decided against going electric. I have several electrics, but nothing this big.

Going electric has many pros for this build.

- I can keep everything in cowl
- No dead sticks(barring frying the esc, ect)
- No clean up

cons

- short flight times
- battery shelf life?
- I'm involved so I may have something to do with the above shelf life lol
- Inital cost
- powerplant(depending on where and what) $200.00 (ballpark average for all)
- esc $150.00
- battery's(I would want at least two...at least) $200.00-$250.00
- charger $200.00

I could have everything I would need for gas or glow for much less.

dunno....
Prices are not that high at all really.
Motor:
Powerplant: e-flite power 160 would fly this bird with ease $150
OR
Turnigy SK 6364-230kv motor $59...this is the same motor ive run in several 73-80'' planes on an 18x12. It can swing a 24x10 and was done so in a 90'' Edge 540. Product comes in every 3 weeks if they are out of stock.
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbyking/s..._230Kv_/_3150W

ESC: Well you could go with a CC Phoenix for $150 or more or you could use
Turnigy 5-12s Sentilion 100amp
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=4691&Product_Name=TURNIGY_Sentilon100A_HV_5-12S_BESC_(Ver4)

Batteries:
5s 5000 30c Turnigy $63each or $58 after logging in with an active account
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbyking/s..._30C_Lipo_Pack
OR
Zippy FlightMax 5s 5000 $51 each
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbyking/s...0mAh_5S1P_30C_

You could also go with a 5800mah battery for more flight time. 5s 5800mah 30c $84
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbyking/s...00mAh_5S1P_30C

Charger:
Not even close to $200
Turnigy Accucel 6 $24 with a $5 credit making it $19. Can do up to 6s lipo
I use two of these. CAn be run off a 12v car battery at the field or a power adapter at home. Charges and Balances. Can also do nimh, nicad, LiFe(A123), and lead acid
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbyking/s...w/_accessories

Heres the power adapter:
$16
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbyking/s...ly_100~240v_5A

If you want a slightly higher charger(meaning up to 8s) then:
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbyking/s...lancer/Charger

But, you'd never need that really sicne you'd be using 2 of the 5s packs in series for a 10s setup...or even 2 of the 6s packs for a 12s

So..total cost is less then a gas or glow motor for this size plane.
Motor: $64
ESC $100
Batteries(2 total) $120
Charger $20
total: $304


OK OK...I guess I've been shopping the WRONG brands lol....I use AXI motors in all of my other electrics, and I love them....but expensive compaired to the costs your giving. I use ThunderPower packs, again, I love them, but higher cost.


I guess I can look at it this way, If I do go electric and I'm not happy....it will not be all that much to change over later as I wouldn't have to cut it all up.

hmmmmm


DAMN YOU ALLLL !!!!!!!!!



LOL


Casey



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Old 02-19-2010, 02:31 PM
  #58
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Default RE: Fliteskin ME 109F build thread


Quote:
ORIGINAL: jmohn

I am getting almost 3000 watts using the 20-10-2 prop. That's a big difference [&:]

We need an 18-8 or 18-7 prop to get the full performance from the motor. It would also be nice to see someone make a larger gear drive motor so we could use less power and swing larger props.


Jeff
Yes it is a big difference...but your prop size is considerably bigger and i dont have the ground clearance for a 20" diameter prop. A 20x10 weighs a lot more then an 18x12 electric prop.
However, speed wise....well.....may not make much difference.
Do you recal what rpm's u were getting?
lets do a static comparison just for giggles.
40 volts(10s x 4.0 volts per cell nominal)
So 40x245(kv of the 160) = 9800 rpm's(no load)
9800 x 10 pitch = 98000
9800 x 12 pitch = 117600
Now obviously real world, the rpm's wont be 9800 because there will be a load on the motor(ie the prop).....but....larger diameter/lower pitch vs smaller diameter/higher pitch may equal out relatively close.
Anyhow....
The static speed my prop is giving at 800 LESS watts is 111mph
The static speed your prop is giving at 800 MORE watts is 92mph

If the rpms are close to the same....you'll get more thrust, but less speed plus shorter flight time because your consuming more watts. However, the all important question is, what are the rpms of the two setups with the props on the motor??
The above numbers dont mean anything unless the rpms are somewhat close.

I do agree we need around an 18" diameter 3 blade prop to get the most out of the motor.
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Old 02-19-2010, 02:51 PM
  #59
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Default RE: Fliteskin ME 109F build thread

Ok so between kahloq and jmohn, I should be able to draw from their experience to come up with a good electric set up.

I want to spin a 3 blade 18-20" if possible, but I also know that this is gonna spin up alot of torque too...any suggestions guys? I don't need to over power the bird. Just want it right...

help!

with costs this low, I can give it a try for sure...and it looks like I might be able to squeeze 10+ min flights with the right combo

Casey

on a side note, I really must say that Jose has done a wonderful job designing the building aspects of this kit...the man has a sharp mind!

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Old 02-19-2010, 02:55 PM
  #60
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Default RE: Fliteskin ME 109F build thread

Oh yeah, I almost forgot. I redid the stacks, and although its not as good as I wanted, I think they are workable with alittle more weathering....I'll add more later when I'm ready to place them.

didn't quite achive the Crumpeffect lol.



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Old 02-19-2010, 03:16 PM
  #61
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Default RE: Fliteskin ME 109F build thread


Quote:
ORIGINAL: glazier808

Ok so between kahloq and jmohn, I should be able to draw from their experience to come up with a good electric set up.

I want to spin a 3 blade 18-20'' if possible, but I also know that this is gonna spin up alot of torque too...any suggestions guys? I don't need to over power the bird. Just want it right...

Casey
Well, you could put a gyro on the rudder and have it on a switch so you could turn it off after take off. Ive done it before.
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Old 02-19-2010, 03:30 PM
  #62
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Default RE: Fliteskin ME 109F build thread

funny you say that, because I was actually planning on doing it...it is a 109 after all. I've read a thread on a UK site where some guys did it and raved about how it improved the handling....the set up was the key I believe.

So with a gyro, at say 18lbs(give or take...take I hope) what set up would you suggest? Turnigy motor seems to be least expensive, I could spend more on larger batterys for longer flight times.

Also what gyro would you suggest seeing how you have used the setup yourself?
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Old 02-19-2010, 03:47 PM
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Default RE: Fliteskin ME 109F build thread

Casey,

I used a GWS gyro on my D7 to control it on the ground and it worked great. I don't remember which one. I want to put one on my Stuka, but haven't yet.

I don't know what RPM I am getting on my setup as I really only care about the amps and watts. I get lots of thrust using the 20" props and could go down to an 18 or 19 to get more speed. I like more thrust until I get comfortable with the plane, then I drop a size or two to get more speed. I did this with my P51b and P51d models and they are real fast now. I was getting 109 mph on the "B" model and 104 on the "D" model.

I haven't used the Turnigy motors yet, but others have and like/dis-like them? I just use the Eflite stuff because they have been reliable and Horrizon has been great with replacing and/or repairing stuff for me.


Jeff
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Old 02-19-2010, 04:01 PM
  #64
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Default RE: Fliteskin ME 109F build thread

Perhaps Eflight would be the better answer, I've only gone with AXI's as stated before, and I know they are great. I've yet to have any issues with any of them. I would perfer to go with the better of the two...if that is the Eflight 160...

so be it.

I believe this may be one of the first electric conversions done of this plane...I'll have to ask Jose.

I hope going electric will allow me to keep the weight down abit and improve on the wing loading some. I'm sure that it would not hurt anything lol.


now then ESC and lipo's

100amp?

whats the biggest battery that I would want to use in a series for 10 or 12s? With a three blade I'll be using up abit more juice, and I want to be able to stay up there awhile.

Also I have digital servo's that will take abit more juice too.
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Old 02-19-2010, 04:14 PM
  #65
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Default RE: Fliteskin ME 109F build thread

Casey,

I use 2 6S 5000 mah packs only because that's what I had around. You only need 2 5S packs to get the most from the 160 motor. If your getting new batteries I would go with the largest you can get into the space you have. The Zippy 5S 5800 or 6400 packs would be a good choice. Also the 5S packs are not that popular as most people are using the 6S packs for Heli's and 60 size planes.

You will need a 100 amp ESC like the Castle 110 HV or equivelant. For a flight pack I use the Castle 10 amp UBEC with either a 3S 1320 or 2100 mah pack. Again, these are packs I have around from other planes so they worked for me. You could also just go direct with a NiCad 6 volt or Lipo 2S 7.4 volt pack. I would get a pack at least 2000 mah or more. That will give you 5-7 fights before requiring a charge.

A 3 blade 18" prop for electric will be hard to find. If you can get an APC or Master in that size let me know, but I haven't found them. The KMP ones are fine, but expensive. It would be nice if Master or APC started making them for electrics.

If you ever plan on getting over to the Bay Area or Sacto area for an event let me know so we can try and meet.



Jeff
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Old 02-19-2010, 04:15 PM
  #66
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Default RE: Fliteskin ME 109F build thread

It does not have to be a super expensive high end heli type gyro. I used a futaba gy401 in an 80" p-51 which is way more then needed...especailly at $149.
The good thing with the 401 is that you CAN set it up to have remote gain adjustment via your TX.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXVA43&P=ML

This one from JR also has remote gain adjustment as well as heading hold(tail lock) and rate mode and is $109:
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...odID=JRPG2703D

Now...this is hobbycity's version of the futaba 401 and at $20
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=10113

This is turnigy gyro. Cost is $25 and works with both analog and digital servos.
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=8471&Product_Name=Turnigy_Head_Lock_&_Standard_Gyro_(Digital/Analog)

Now this one is a PLANE specific gyro. It is not intended for use with heli's. Use a high speed high torque servo with it on the rudder and you should be good to go as well. It also as remote gain via the TX and can be switched on or off. Cost is $18
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbyking/s...nel_Controlled

A heading lock capable gyro that also has a rate mode would be good since you can choose between using heading lock(hold) or rate mode to see which works best for you if you dont use a airplane specific gyro(very few out there).
Heading hold can be used on a rudder and it will try to keep the nose of the plane headed in the exact direction you line up on, but if your not lined up facing dead center down the runway, you could wind up heading off to one side. Rudder stick input by you will overide the heading hold proportionally from less to no gyro input the further away from center that YOU move the rudder stick.
However, if set up right, you shouldnt have to touch the rudder at all provided a smooth throttle advanced. Some ppl prefer rate mode though as it isnt quite as precise, but still helps.
Im not the best at explaining gyros since Ive only used them on planes and rtf heli's where i havent had to mess with the gain much.
You will have to adjust the gain rate regardless of heading hold mode or rate mode to get the desired results. Too much gain and the plane may be ground looping cuz of too much rudder input...too little and your off to the left side of the runway.
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Old 02-19-2010, 04:31 PM
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Default RE: Fliteskin ME 109F build thread

Weight wise, it may or may not be lighter when compared to a gas motor. That depends on the battery size. However, with an 80" plane, you've got a good deal of wing area.
My CMP 109 weighs 16 pounds at 73". Some of the glow powered ones weigh in at 14 pounds(dry no fuel)
For quality assurance, the E-flite motors are very strong and reliable. The turnigy motors are good too, but the NON SK versions have had magnets come loose in some instances. I have had a few of the non sk turnigy motors loose magnets, but hobbycity has been improving these for a couple years now. The SK versions are still better though.
I have NOT had a turnigy SK throw a magnet.
If your first large electric, id go with the e-flite 160
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Old 02-19-2010, 04:47 PM
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Default RE: Fliteskin ME 109F build thread

My smaller planes link the Hanger 9 Hellcat & Sig P51B (sold these) came in around 10 lbs. I used an Eflite 60 motor in these with 16-10-3 blade props on them. They flew great and had very light wing loading. I did throw a magnet on a couple of these motors, but I was using a larger prop than recommened and was getting 1200 watts from these motors.

I do have two power 60 motors on my Me-110 with two 6S packs and the plane came in lighter than any other one I have heard about at less than 20 lbs. I didn't have to add any weight to the plane.

I haven't had any issues with the 110 and 160 motors to date and have many, many hours on them now. I did have a 110 v ESC go out in-flight, but landed it without incident.

It's pretty easy to use a timer on your radio to know how much power you have left and just start landing when you are 30-60 seconds from your 25-30% pack level. That gives you enough power for a go around or two if needed.



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Old 02-19-2010, 04:58 PM
  #69
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Default RE: Fliteskin ME 109F build thread

I have that same ESM ME-110. I have some turnigy motors for it, but may use the e-flite 60's since they are proven in that plane.
And as far as having an esc go out in flight....ive had that happen once...but on a cheap brand. I use a separate RX 6v nimh in electric planes for that reason. I dont normally like using a separate BEC sicne its drawing power from the main flight packs. Not much I know, but...its just me, i like having the two pwoer sources separate.
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Old 02-19-2010, 05:03 PM
  #70
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Default RE: Fliteskin ME 109F build thread

between the two of you guys, I'm gonna have a great set up at a great price....many, many thanks to both of you for your help and assistance with this...

jmohn,

of course we're gonna have to get together and tear holes in the sky!

Casey
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Old 02-19-2010, 06:26 PM
  #71
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Default RE: Fliteskin ME 109F build thread

Casey,

Glad to be a help! I need to take a look at the P47 you have from Jeff. I think that may be my next plane. He did a fantastic job on that one! It's another good electric candidate if you can keep the weight down. I talked with him about trying to do a lighter glass one for electric and he's excited about it. I need to pay taxes to make sure I have enough in the bank first.


Kahlog,

I use a seperate UBEC on all my planes now. I don't use the once on the ESC even if it has one. Both the Castle 85 hv and 110 hv don't have a BEC so you need one anyway.

The Me-110 flies fine, but it's not over powered and you have to fly it like the real thing. It won't do anything crazy. I don't even like to use the flaps as it needs a lot of power and it dosen't have much to spare. Still it's a great looking and easy to fly plane. Just land it flaps up or flaps down with a steep decent.




Jeff
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Old 02-19-2010, 07:12 PM
  #72
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Default RE: Fliteskin ME 109F build thread

Man you have a nice hanger of planes going there jmohn!
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Old 02-19-2010, 07:31 PM
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Default RE: Fliteskin ME 109F build thread

Quote:
ORIGINAL: jmohn


Kahlog,

I use a seperate UBEC on all my planes now. I don't use the once on the ESC even if it has one. Both the Castle 85 hv and 110 hv don't have a BEC so you need one anyway.

The Me-110 flies fine, but it's not over powered and you have to fly it like the real thing. It won't do anything crazy. I don't even like to use the flaps as it needs a lot of power and it dosen't have much to spare. Still it's a great looking and easy to fly plane. Just land it flaps up or flaps down with a steep decent.

Jeff
Nothing wrong with separate UBEC's I just prefer to use nimh rx packs. Sometimes it helps with balancing a plane too

As for the ME-110. You've made me question the power 60's now. Im at 5000ft alt. so using flaps to land is kinda necessary unless coming in rather fast.
So..with the power 60 having 400kv, i might go instead with the turnigy SK 5055-580kv. Ive got that in the graupner fw-190 D9 with a 16x8 3 blade graupner prop. At half throttle shes flying faster then scale with tons of thrust and can fly for 10 mins(half throttle) on a 6s 5000 battery. Some ppl are using 14x10 props and getting almost 2000 watts on 6s. I have a similar motor in my ME-163 Komet
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbyking/s..._580Kv_/_1580w

It wouldnt be enough to fly this fliteskin 109 though, but two would surely fly the 110 very well with room to spare.
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Old 02-19-2010, 07:38 PM
  #74
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Default RE: Fliteskin ME 109F build thread


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ORIGINAL: jmohn


A 3 blade 18'' prop for electric will be hard to find. If you can get an APC or Master in that size let me know, but I haven't found them. The KMP ones are fine, but expensive. It would be nice if Master or APC started making them for electrics.

Jeff
Found one you might be interested in. Should soak up the power of a power 160 quite well
18x12 3 blade graupner G-sonic
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/g_sonic_3...18516_prd1.htm
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Old 02-19-2010, 07:59 PM
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Default RE: Fliteskin ME 109F build thread

Check out this iron paint for creating rust. can't beat it, because it is real rust! http://www.modernmastersinc.com/products.aspx?pl=ME
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