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Where did all the real bulders go?

Old 03-13-2010, 03:26 PM
  #101  
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Default RE: Where did all the real bulders go?

Have you seen Bob? He's building a B1 Bomber from scrarch, the plugs, molds - everthing. His father makes the metal parts.
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Old 03-13-2010, 03:32 PM
  #102  
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Default RE: Where did all the real bulders go?

Dude, all of us REAL RC guys have computers in our shops.
ORIGINAL: R/C Art

Here's a radical thought...........

maybe the builders are out in their shops building rather than hanging around the various ''build'' sites.

Call me crazy, but its a posibility!

Cheers,
Art
Blake
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Old 03-13-2010, 03:38 PM
  #103  
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Default RE: Where did all the real bulders go?

I have a TV in my shop too. I can build and watch the History Channel at the same time.
ORIGINAL: hairy46


ORIGINAL: kmeyers

I think that less people are building because it cuts into their TV watching and video game time.

Me I don't get around to building much because I'm always repairing something. Gotta quit crashing so often.
I gave up TV about 9 years ago now, My motto is you got time for TV got time to build! I still listen to ball games on the radio while I build, Yes I do have some ARF's but you can sure see the detail in a build! But this hobby is for some just flying and to other's just building and to me its both, The pleasure I get flying is the same I get building! When I am at the flying field or in my shop I dont have a care in the world! and thats why I do both for the R&R of both!
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Old 03-13-2010, 03:46 PM
  #104  
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Default RE: Where did all the real bulders go?

sooooo True on the computer ,
I guess this will not qualify me as a real builder lol , but I am in my garage sanding the wing I rebuold , glassed and added evercoat too ...today , all day .
I scratch buold the flaps , the alerons , the retract bays , added sierra gear and extended my from wing to house the wheels .
My canopy slided under air power , tail wheel retracts , rudder , elevator scratch build , most of the interior scracth build , williams brother wheels modified to look like Fw190 wheels , front fuse hood with gun blisters made from fiberglass , pilot was 8oz but I made a body from blue foam and got him down to 3oz ,
All the servos , battery boxes , wing servos have scratch build servos boxes so they could be moved forward of the CG vs the oringinal factory position .

Seriuosly i Know its not building and I have nothing but respect for the builders and actully love to see the models emerge , but for now I like to bash the ARfs and if the frame is half decent then you can go to town and make it your own .
Time , work and kids are all choices and I make mine based on what is fun , less stress ect .
So if you can build and like , more power to you , if you cant enjoy the hobby and lived a blessed life that is happy . AT 49 I just lost a coworker who was 59 , 5 kids ect from cancer and they believe the cancer was caused from stress and stomach acid . Six months from the MD visit to the end sorry not trying to bring the party down , but you need to have fun and enjoy what you love that is all that counts
So look at this hobby in any way to want but make it fun , dont get stressed and really enjoy it for what its worth
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Old 03-13-2010, 04:54 PM
  #105  
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Default RE: Where did all the real bulders go?


[quote]ORIGINAL: Whistling Death

I have a TV in my shop too. I can build and watch the History Channel at the same time.
[quote]ORIGINAL: hairy46

I have a small fridge under the bench, full of beer, no TV. Actually I have a 19" but no cable connection to the shop. But the shop is insulated, has AC and heat, plus a skylight...

"Give a man a fish, and he will eat for one day. Teach him to fish, and he will spend all day with his buddys, in a boat drinking beer, doin' nothin'..."

Gerry
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Old 03-13-2010, 07:56 PM
  #106  
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Default RE: Where did all the real bulders go?

Barry,

I'm curious....you've made statements on the RC Universe Forum before regarding "recogniton." As in "Why should I post when nobody is recognizing me or my skills."
In your post on page three in this thread you state, "I have been busy cutting parts and building my P-40 and forgot about this thread I started. I love to create conversation and controversy so this thread is really fueling my fire to complete this build. Without intending it you all are helping me get back the right attitude about this hobby."
Barry
Huh??? Not intending to put you down or "dis" you in ANY way, are you SURE this hobby's for you?

Barry, I have been building for four decades. I love it more than flying. It's the creativity and sense of accomplishment that is so very satisfying to me. My T34C build seen here on the RC Universe forum has been commented on by many. And I dearly appreciate all of them. But even without the comments I am dead sure that those builders out there who do not post get the same satisfaction as I do from the sense of creating something from nothing/adding one's own detailing/inventing something that works/seeing it through to the end/the agony over the years and doubts about ones "sanity" as time slips by etc., etc., etc. I love all of it. Always have.

I can maybe make better sense of what I'm saying with regards those who love to play golf or tennis or shoot pool or WHATEVER......I don't. Every time I try to do something else, it's no fun. It's like going against the grain. I'm not a team player. I'm an individual who gets enormous satisfaction from building airplanes. It's what I do. I built my first plastic model when I was 7. An airplane. Not a car, not a boat. My first CL model was a Cox Stuka with an .049. Crashed it and glued it back together. Airplanes......I can't get away from them. I've owned three real ones and am looking to buy another one.

I'm an airplane guy. I don't do cars or boats, models or real ones. I think one has to decide what best fits one in life and what brings one the inner satisfaction from all the distractions out there.

Just my .02
Kim
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Old 03-13-2010, 08:37 PM
  #107  
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Default RE: Where did all the real bulders go?

hi guys stoner here.
i am kit builder and flyer,this past summer i paid a club memeber to construct a reproduction of the bluejay giant chaos for myself while i was finishing my own tiger 60 from carl goldberg . i will never buy an arf .
i rather have an awsome kit built here at home for me instead of sending it to china . do the same and you will never be limited on size and color , all is good here are some pics of my latest build .
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Old 03-13-2010, 08:37 PM
  #108  
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Default RE: Where did all the real bulders go?

Hey All,
Ive been in the hobby for some time and like building both kits and plans airplanes. ARFs are fine for those that are happy with them.. I just wish they where made in the USA.

Funny, everybody is crying about the economy and no jobs but dont seem to make the connection.. China, the far east, Mexico, thats where all the jobs have been going. ARF's are only one of the millions of products no longer made here but are coming from china and else where. Most all consumer items are from china... We all want stuff cheap, but are only know starting to see the result... NO JOB's in the USA. I guess maybe america will wake up when china calls our U.S. debt in and says WE ,"China" want the 135 Trillon we loaned you. Oh, we'll just take your country instead OK,
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Old 03-14-2010, 01:18 AM
  #109  
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Default RE: Where did all the real bulders go?

Ok lets see here...This builder has slowed down, in the shop anyhow....My head has a hundred ideas of whats next...but my storage is full ..I used to race to finish, then forget the plane the second its done. I have to admit I don't have as strong of a flying drive as most ..I wish I did..but I never have,,So now I try to just build when it suits me..bigger slower projects..and many times I take the hard way to get there. Its cheaper, slower..and gives me a nicer airplane..to move on from ! :P


As to computers, I wish SO bad I could have learned computer 3d design from a young age I would LOVE to be able to do it. Designing kits ready to lazer cut would be nirvana ! Unfortunately what little I have seen tells me I would never learn enough, fast enough to stick with it...

And as far as the jobs going overseas, I hate it like everyone. But its not all fatcats, screwing workers..the govt. has made it impossible for some of our own people to make it here. I know many small business, have to cheat to make it.

I know politics are verbotten ..but there used to be a day you could survive on a menial job ....do what you wanted with most of your money, and live with the consequences...
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Old 03-14-2010, 01:50 AM
  #110  
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Default RE: Where did all the real bulders go?


ORIGINAL: prop17thRAF

Hello gents. Im looking for help on scratch building a Royal Messerschmitt 109-e4 . All i have is the blueprints because Royal is out of business.So my dad went looking for the blueprints and found them and now i need to know where to start. The prints are rolled up in the box ,,,and i cant fly it like that,,,lol. Thanks for any input. S~ [img][/img]

try rcroyal.com
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Old 03-14-2010, 08:20 AM
  #111  
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"And as far as the jobs going overseas, I hate it like everyone. But its not all fatcats, screwing workers..the govt. has made it impossible for some of our own people to make it here. I know many small business, have to cheat to make it. "

wow someone finally gets it -its not anyone intent in the USA to open a business and hope for a large work force -the industrial revolutionjobs were the result of labor in place of technology that was not invented -as tech caught up people were replaced the #1 critera first before any business can be moral , ethical and care about its employes is to tunred a profit . As stated the countrys largets employee is the small business that can hire people in place of technology , but when you tax then to death they cut back !!!
Being very gainfully emplyed , I would be careful saying anyone is wineing about not haveing a job , people in this country who really try are struggeling and many with familys .
The 10% unemplyment rate is a lie , they stopped counting the ones who are no longer looking lol , in Florida its 13% .

This has nothing to do with building but typically its gets off subject . I am in sales and marketing (at a high level ) and really before you decide to stick a pencil in your eye over my speach , it really is simple with no emotion , we just tend to add the emotion including me .

In every business demographics chage , trends change every 12 months , licensed novelity max life 24 , every year at the Toy fair the big question is "what will be new " what is hot " why because people and desires and demand change and change quickly .

So why in the hobby of RC do we expect time to stand still lol ??? seriously , why because we add an emotion to the hobby and rightfully so , but in business when you add an emotional connection between your marketing and your consumer you better and I mean better be correct 95% or better .
So if any of you decided to go to the banks and start a kit building company based on your passion , your emotion , desire , love for building ect your biggest mistake would be overestimating demand based on your emotion .

Companys spend millions determining what a consumer actually wantsnot what the company thinks they want . When its your own money or that of a stock holders you will be very carfeul about interjecting opinion over fact .
The most difficult part of this research is determing "what they will want next " its easy to track what they bought .

Remember cost , promotion and timeing all impact trend look at the importer of ARFs , lets call them ABC , there business model had the planes landing in the states at $459 and higher to you the rc consumer . When demand , cost and the economy finaly dwindled sales down to nothing , the company chose another direction and instepped a distributor with lower overhead , so lower final cost , results seem to be the same planes selling at a very high rate and many new introductions ...why -was the quality better , less , improved -no no no no did the trend change from builder tio arfs over night and increase demand in this company no no no no -
WHat happen was majically and buy no apparent research the new price hit a major number of RC pilots that said wowfor $300 bucks I am getting a warbird 70" or better and that is is not bad . So the temptation of the guy who may have build the kit , scratch build a plane may also jump (purist wont do so ) but remember I am talking about the guys that are on so many fences about what part of the hobby they like .

Remember we dont live in a vacume , so trends that happen all around us impact the desire and time spent on the hobby .If someone likes to play golf and build and now the golf course lowers fees , he may build less , if someone has to take two jobs , he may build less ect ec t


Lastly , this one will really get the old timers while you see all kinds of post of getting young people into the hobby , or build more post , or arfs vs Kits vs scratch building ect , this next statement will show you how disconnected we all are the #1 consumer that controls the American household income for spending , fastest growing group , outpaceing all demographics in school , is the American Women - marketing companys are realizing this , but there so scarce in RC forums ect . WOuld be interesting to see women enter the hobby and what format they would choose
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Old 03-14-2010, 09:38 AM
  #112  
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Default RE: Where did all the real bulders go?

Women!

My wife would offer all the models as fire wood, composite or not, and I would be enslaved to the fire.

Ok, maybe not all. 50%.

Steve
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Old 03-14-2010, 10:43 AM
  #113  
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ORIGINAL: foodstick

And as far as the jobs going overseas, I hate it like everyone. But its not all fatcats, screwing workers..the govt. has made it impossible for some of our own people to make it here. I know many small business, have to cheat to make it.

I know politics are verbotten ..but there used to be a day you could survive on a menial job ....do what you wanted with most of your money, and live with the consequences...
I am a small business owner. In some instances, as you say taxes can be a problem. But, the ugly truth is that we have bigger problems than that. I pay over 15K in health insurance for me and my family (and I pay much less than that in taxes)... HC is as expensive as my mortgage, and it is a crappy HMO...

The other biggie the politicians will not mention is that there is no way in the world we can compete with people that charge 1 USD per hour (hourly average wage of any industrialized big city in China). Even getting free healthcare, not paying benefits and not paying ANY taxes, most of us STILL would not be able to compete, sad to say...

It will get worst, Piper is manufacturing in China, turbine manufacturing plants are moving 1,000 well paid jobs are moving from Connecticut overseas (Asia) this year, Boeing will be manufacturig abroad, things just cannot go on like this. Well paid jobs are disappearing fast...

Gerry




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Old 03-14-2010, 12:10 PM
  #114  
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Default RE: Where did all the real bulders go?

Blame the unions. Only in America can a union person whom has never held a job before, who has no skills at all, get full time on the job training and get paid over 20 dollars an hour.

This is true in the automotive, the aerospace and the various other manufacturing industries. So why wouldn't Boeing, Ford, GM etc, move business where it is less expensive to build something you are trying to sell?

For the past 25 years unions have become a pox in America. One fully controlled by the liberals with no care for anything except controlling exactly what they want to... which is every aspect of your and my life.
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Old 03-14-2010, 12:19 PM
  #115  
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Default RE: Where did all the real bulders go?

I think they (the builders) met last night at denny's.


either that or a elves convention?
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Old 03-14-2010, 12:36 PM
  #116  
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I would like to chime in about small businesses. I own three and each one is struggling. Even though I grossed over a quarter million dollars last year my overhead ate up everything but a measly $20,000.00 for my wife and two children to live on. I also have my mother in law living with us. If you do the math thats plain poverty. My wife and I work 7 days a week in my apartment business and she works outside the business. The other two companies I work when I have time. The economy is so bad that I can't raise rents because everyone is broke except the fat cats. It's funny how I can't raise my rents but everything else keeps going up in price to try and drive the small businessman out of business. I have to use a state funded health insurance policy for the poor. Tell me thats not embarassing. $250,000.00 down to $20,000.00. Then theres taxes. I wont go into that because they seem to want to tax everything here in Wisconsin including your personal property like stoves and refriderators. Maybe I should sell if I could and buy an ARF factory in China.

Barry
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Old 03-14-2010, 01:16 PM
  #117  
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Default RE: Where did all the real bulders go?


ORIGINAL: Evil_Merlin

Blame the unions. Only in America can a union person whom has never held a job before, who has no skills at all, get full time on the job training and get paid over 20 dollars an hour.

This is true in the automotive, the aerospace and the various other manufacturing industries. So why wouldn't Boeing, Ford, GM etc, move business where it is less expensive to build something you are trying to sell?

For the past 25 years unions have become a pox in America. One fully controlled by the liberals with no care for anything except controlling exactly what they want to... which is every aspect of your and my life.
Come on Evil, you can blame your favorite "bad guy", like the Germans once blamed the Jews. The truth is that nobody here (union or not) can afford to work for 1 USD per hour, period. With Taxes, no taxes, benefits, no benefits, union or not. You can only go so far exporting (killing) all the decent well paying jobs in this country...

Why wouldn't we export ALL the services and manufacturing jobs we can abroad? Because the chinese do not buy stuff in this country for one thing... Because our standard of living will keep going down. Because we will cease to own our own destiny (China will own the US during my lifetime if the current tren is not changed). Remember that you can sell only so much to unemployed folks.

But, let's get back to the equalizer on this forum: Model aviation, RC models, fun stuff, stuff that we take to the field and takes off sometimes, and lands always... Sorry I got sidetracked with real life for a moment. I promise it will not happen again:-)

Gerry



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Old 03-16-2010, 06:03 AM
  #118  
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Default RE: Where did all the real bulders go?

I agree that your not going to get your wives to take a 360 turn , what i am saying is that we are not marketing as an industry to kids (girls) at all, who is to say they would not build and build better , stay longer into the hobby ect ect .THey are in every sport possible and at higher levels then before , look at MAN magizine and its chief editor .

Agian , if we focus on what we dont do or why , its too late , you need to look at who will be the future of the hobby in 10 years , who is coming up if anyone at all to keep the hobby going , will they build (not at the cuurent rate or trends that I see ) they will be luckey to touch a nitro engine or own a can of fule
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Old 03-16-2010, 10:14 AM
  #119  
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Default RE: Where did all the real bulders go?

ORIGINAL: NCIS
I would like to chime in about small businesses. I own three and each one is struggling. Even though I grossed over a quarter million dollars last year my overhead ate up everything but a measly $20,000.00 for my wife and two children to live on. I also have my mother in law living with us. If you do the math thats plain poverty. My wife and I work 7 days a week in my apartment business and she works outside the business. The other two companies I work when I have time. The economy is so bad that I can't raise rents because everyone is broke except the fat cats. It's funny how I can't raise my rents but everything else keeps going up in price to try and drive the small businessman out of business. I have to use a state funded health insurance policy for the poor. Tell me thats not embarassing. $250,000.00 down to $20,000.00. Then theres taxes. I wont go into that because they seem to want to tax everything here in Wisconsin including your personal property like stoves and refriderators. Maybe I should sell if I could and buy an ARF factory in China.
Barry
Well Barry, you can't buy a business in China everything belongs to the people and you are not a Chinese.

May you should just get a job and stop whining.

Low income (referred to business owner) is not only depend on the state of the economy. It depends also who steer that ship, against the stream you use more fuel. Lazy attitude of workers cost you money. Planning ahead is required, saving money in good times - for times like that.

Anyhow i just made some of the angels (just a little larger, I used what was laying around) which you try sell, for 6$ each. To cut them I used a cold saw, 4 parts - 1 minute. I milled them in a knee mill like yours, 4 parts - 1 minute. I took a deburr tool to it and cleaned them up. All together I spent 5 minutes including taking the pictures and drilling the small holes. The Price per foot on that material is $3. That means it is $0.50 per part.

According to your price I would made $22 in 5 minutes. $264 in an hour. That's only 48 parts.

Now, are you still talking about state funded health care for the poor........
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Old 03-16-2010, 12:18 PM
  #120  
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Default RE: Where did all the real bulders go?

Pete you can be a real jerk sometimes. Why did you have to copy me if your so smart? Plus the material I bought cost me alot more than what was just lying around. If you want to sell them at a low price go ahead this is a free country. Plus you seem to think you know everything. I wish I was perfect like you G-Pete!!! No wonder so many people think your a snob.

Barry
www.canopyrailsforwarbirds.com

PS: Pete I now have a new target for our bomb runs at my club's Warbird flyins!
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Old 03-16-2010, 02:36 PM
  #121  
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Default RE: Where did all the real bulders go?

That's exactly what I'm talk about, who steering the ship and looking into the future.

First comes the investment - buy the 25 foot stick.
Investment cost $75.
Cut them all up and mill them. 5hrs at most work into it. Even with $3 each the profit is $375 pretty good for a few hours, that's $75 in an hour.

Well 10cc Barry - I don't know everything, but I know a bunch. You have zero overhead cost - the mill is there regardless. Your multiple posts here shows you have time on the hand. There are modelers out there - these guys are not scratch builder of choice. They have to cut all their own stuff because money was and is tight - whatever reason. These guys can't afford angles for $6 each, even 3 bucks are pretty steep for them.
You can run your business how ever you want - but when I see stuff like that I will respond and drop my $0.02. What I mean is, if I would do that (the angles) I would charge a buck 'n half. I would be happy to make $100 in an relaxed evening.


There are many people out there who are not in a position like you - talking to buy Moki's and building 1/4 scale airplanes...and then complain have "only $20000" to live on???

You are just lucky you have a wife like that - i can tell you this don't fly like that in most Texas households. There would be no hobby at all Kids, Wife and House first and then AFTER put some in savings maybe some spending on Hobby.


You just got me started - as more I think about that as more ridiculous it sounds. With every dollar you spent on balsa you take away a dollar from your kids? [X(]


Don't start that "I wish I was perfect like you G-Pete!!!" I'm not perfect, but I know my priorities.
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Old 03-16-2010, 02:48 PM
  #122  
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Default RE: Where did all the real bulders go?

Little Pete. As this must of slipped your mind I was a Harris County Deputy, Fort Bend County Deputy and a Meadows Police Officer. So after 20 years of that and the Texas mentality I decided to go where people think before they speak unlike you. It is hard to believe that one day you are civil and the next totally the opposite. A real Dr. Jeckle and Mr. Hyde.

I think I caought your likness well in the above target post,

Barry
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Old 03-16-2010, 02:52 PM
  #123  
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Default RE: Where did all the real bulders go?

ORIGINAL: NCIS
No wonder so many people think your a snob.
Barry
Snob - yeah, call me that.
Arrogant - yeah call me that too...fine with me.

That's my weak side


Now my strong side

Honest
Loyal
Motivated
Rational
Fair
Helpful
and Smart

I don't lie, I don't steal, I don't ripoff, I don't cheat - stand up guy with a clear conscience.



Now, Snob? - what gives.....
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Old 03-16-2010, 03:00 PM
  #124  
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Default RE: Where did all the real bulders go?

ORIGINAL: NCIS
Little Pete. As this must of slipped your mind I was a Harris County Deputy, Fort Bend County Deputy and a Meadows Police Officer. So after 20 years of that and the Texas mentality I decided to go where people think before they speak unlike you. It is hard to believe that one day you are civil and the next totally the opposite. A real Dr. Jeckle and Mr. Hyde.
I think I caought your likness well in the above target post,
Barry
Are you saying Texans speak first and then think?

Are you saying all Texans are idiots?

Texas mentality, what's that??


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Old 03-16-2010, 03:09 PM
  #125  
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Default RE: Where did all the real bulders go?

Oh BTW little Pete is NOT a Texan...

Your attempt to insult me - just went into wrong direction.

Si tacuisses, philosophus manisses means: if you had kept quiet, you would have remained a philosopher


Bomb drop target? Barry Barry!!
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