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Where did all the real bulders go?

Old 03-11-2010, 05:25 PM
  #1  
NCIS
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Default Where did all the real bulders go?

Builders anyone?

All I seem to see lately are builders taking the quicker way out and building almost ready to fly kits that are basically almost all composite. I know these new ARF's are not nearly complete but they take away alot to be desired. And even the major kit suppliers and designers are now offering fiberglass fuse's for almost all thier kits. I have nothing against the new thing but where are the guy's that build off of plans and scratch build? I would love to see some of these arf builders build from nothing but a set of plans and raw wood. I went on scratch build and that is a very slow moving forum. It seems like we are being pushed out of the way for progress.

JMHO,

Gibbs
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Old 03-11-2010, 05:58 PM
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Default RE: Where did all the real bulders go?

We are here and watching. By the way, real scratch builders cut thier own parts to.
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Old 03-11-2010, 05:59 PM
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Default RE: Where did all the real bulders go?

I started out as an old fashion "kit builder" and I still enjoy builing a great airplane from a box of wood. However having a full time job and being a daddy means that I just no longer have the time to build kits like I did years ago. I have one that I have been working on for at least 10 years. Many of today`s ARF`s are so good that you can cut down the build time to just a few months if you`re like me and still like to add scale details to "improve" the ARF. I have built many of the planes from VQ and KMP and have found that for the money they just can not be beat. I still have a good collection of kit`s and one day after I retire I hope to get back into building from a box of wood. But for now I will enjoy these great new jump start kits!
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Old 03-11-2010, 06:00 PM
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Default RE: Where did all the real bulders go?


ORIGINAL: P-40 DRIVER

We are here and watching. By the way, real scratch builders cut thier own parts to.
Word


they draw their own plans too
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Old 03-11-2010, 06:12 PM
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Default RE: Where did all the real bulders go?

Building a top flite p-47. Hate it. Wish Ihad bought an ARF. But then I am clearly not a real builder.
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Old 03-11-2010, 06:30 PM
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Default RE: Where did all the real bulders go?

builders are the guys that build and dont *****. if the parts
dont fit, you make them fit. or as P40 said above, cut
your own parts.

sounds like you are over your head again Barry, it is
Barry right?
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Old 03-11-2010, 06:32 PM
  #7  
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Default RE: Where did all the real bulders go?

I did not say I was a scratch builder but I am going to get kits cut by John Monahan at www.theaeroplanefactory.com . It is the next best thing. He cuts the short kit by hand by his selection of the highest quality of wood. I am tired of burnt parts and having to sand the edges for the glue to stick. I think building from plans with only a short kit is pretty darn close to scratch building but I do save time. Plus I can't cut parts the same to save my soul.

So far thanks for the replies keep posting,

Barry
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Old 03-11-2010, 06:49 PM
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Default RE: Where did all the real bulders go?

Hey Todd, just continue to watch the build and when I video the maiden we will see if I'm over my head.

Barry is correct!
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Old 03-11-2010, 06:50 PM
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Default RE: Where did all the real bulders go?

Barry

a couple things here to help.

I have kits from all of the kit cutters you have had prior.
except for John, but I do have an original kit cut from Mace
Gill of which John bought the rights to his company from.

depending on the plans, depends on what kit cutter cuts. some designers
put all their parts on one sheet, some put them on the wing, fuse
plans. so they may be all over the place, and parts get missed.

I have had this happened a few times, you just cut new ones
instead. that is unless the cutter has these profiles already.

plus with plans that pre-date Autocad plans, you will get some
discrepencies time to time depending on when the plans where
made, copied, parts cut from, new copies, copies of copies etc.
this ends up in distorted plans. which then sometimes the cutters
parts might not fit your plans.

the older bluelines when they are made have a small tendency to
stretch. the plans out now that are bond copies dont stretch. they
are cleaner.

so basically, if you have parts that are off, make em fit. if there missing
and the cutter doesnt cut them, cut new ones.

the only perfect (or near perfect) cut kits out there now are going to be
plans that are current and up to date CAD file drawings that are exported
to the cutters. you are then going to get the best parts fit and plans this
way. there are some very good hand drawn plans still, but it takes the
precise digitizing of these plans for a kit cutter however to make sure
they are going to be as precise as the plans.

ultimately things are going to happen, you have to just adjust your parts
or cut new ones as you see fit.
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Old 03-11-2010, 06:52 PM
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Default RE: Where did all the real bulders go?


ORIGINAL: NCIS

Hey Todd, just continue to watch the build and when I video the maiden we will see if I'm over my head.

Barry is correct!
I love horror movies

and if the maiden goes off without a hitch, the plane should be over your
head, or rather over the centerline of the runway
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Old 03-11-2010, 06:55 PM
  #11  
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Default RE: Where did all the real bulders go?

Todd,

OK, I guess I just like to let people know what problems I'm having. I'm sure that many builders don't post these problems and then they are considered great builders. But I am a perfectionist and if it's not perfect I'll keep trying until it is. I am just not going to post problems anymore and the other builders can just find out for themselves. I thought this site was here to help others avoid the same mistakes the builder has encountered but I think it is all about just keeping your mouth shut and watch them make the same mistakes and then laugh about it.[8D]

Barry
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Old 03-11-2010, 07:20 PM
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Default RE: Where did all the real bulders go?


ORIGINAL: NCIS

Builders anyone?
All I seem to see lately are builders taking the quicker way out and building almost ready to fly kits that are basically almost all composite. I know these new ARF's are not nearly complete but they take away alot to be desired. And even the major kit suppliers and designers are now offering fiberglass fuse's for almost all thier kits. I have nothing against the new thing but where are the guy's that build off of plans and scratch build? I would love to see some of these arf builders build from nothing but a set of plans and raw wood. I went on scratch build and that is a very slow moving forum. It seems like we are being pushed out of the way for progress.
JMHO,
Gibbs
Its funny how history repeats itself in politics and on this forum..... on so many levels. This questions has been asked so many times, and of course......Barry......
"There you go again"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wi9y5...om=PL&index=32

1. Composite planes can take a long time with lot of engineering......look at the comp arf P-51, when built by (plenty of real builders) it can take well over a year of consistent work to build a scale master piece. Definitely no "ARF". Also have a look at samparfit's build of the corsair with the folding wings no simple arf there.

2. I am building a ziroli corsair, samparfit is building a ziroli P-61, G-pete built a ziroli P-38, then you have people like Todd B., Evan Quiros, and Jeff Q who are always building!
Not to mention chad V. that designs his own planes and scratch builds. Thats just getting "warmed up" on the tons of threads in this forum alone in the last year. Not mention rcscalebuilder.

So Barry don't worry there are plenty of "real builders". Good luck on your build(s)!

Peter




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Old 03-11-2010, 07:24 PM
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Default RE: Where did all the real bulders go?

OMG!! BAWAHAHHAHAHA!! You owe me 10 bucks Burleyman!!
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Old 03-11-2010, 09:02 PM
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ORIGINAL: David010567

OMG!! BAWAHAHHAHAHA!! You owe me 10 bucks Burleyman!!
nah, you owe me 10 bucks because you are an 08'r
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Old 03-11-2010, 09:12 PM
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Default RE: Where did all the real bulders go?

hey it's all good......time for a commercial break

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jxaY14ddrY[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvGqzATA9xs&feature=channel[/youtube]
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Old 03-11-2010, 09:21 PM
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Default RE: Where did all the real bulders go?

I can build from scratch I just don't. I love ARFs because the quality and the prices are acceptable. Anyway I have never seen an ARF I couldn't spend a month on bashing it to scale.

Blake
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Old 03-11-2010, 09:30 PM
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Default RE: Where did all the real bulders go?


ORIGINAL: t_burley


ORIGINAL: David010567

OMG!! BAWAHAHHAHAHA!! You owe me 10 bucks Burleyman!!
nah, you owe me 10 bucks because you are an 08'r
WOW!! Check this out Toddley....

[link=http://www.oildale08ers.com/]http://www.oildale08ers.com/[/link]
[link=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oildale,_California]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oildale,_California[/link]
[link=http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Oildale]http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Oildale[/link]
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Old 03-11-2010, 10:51 PM
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Default RE: Where did all the real bulders go?

LOL....I've said it before...you SoCal guys are SOOOO CraZy !!!

and by the way, some builders now have kids and a wife, and well you try leaving anything around and hope the kids don't mess with it.

Casey
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Old 03-11-2010, 11:01 PM
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Default RE: Where did all the real bulders go?


ORIGINAL: glazier808

LOL....I've said it before...you SoCal guys are SOOOO CraZy !!!
It's all about Bako pride. LOL!!
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Old 03-11-2010, 11:33 PM
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Default RE: Where did all the real bulders go?

I'm almost a "real builder" .. I think a real builder can take a variety of materials and turn out a better than average product. Be that just wood, or wood and foam, fiberglass, composit etc.

Real airplanes aren't made of balsa wood so why should a real builder be limited to that material?

This is a HOBBY and not a contest of endurance (except for my projects lol). What ever gives some one pleasure is acceptable to me.. (except having a chicken, or troll etc. as a pilot).

Keep it fun and you'll always enjoy it. Make it a chore and it'll become a bother.

Just my 2 cents.
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Old 03-11-2010, 11:36 PM
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Default RE: Where did all the real bulders go?

well said amigo....................and glad yer doing well bob[sm=thumbup.gif]
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Old 03-11-2010, 11:38 PM
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Default RE: Where did all the real bulders go?

Us builders are still around.

But when we comment about the quality of some ARF's claiming to be "scale" we seem to get get nothing but grief from people who seem to think they know better... so for the most part the real builders are elsewhere.
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Old 03-11-2010, 11:50 PM
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Default RE: Where did all the real bulders go?

Yup, Most of them are DEAD[:@] Hey I still build
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Old 03-11-2010, 11:52 PM
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Default RE: Where did all the real bulders go?

Toddy, thank you bro.. who knows maybe someday I'll get out there and be able to pay you a visit. I'd like that

EM you are right. Us builders are still around..
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Old 03-12-2010, 03:07 AM
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Default RE: Where did all the real bulders go?

I am a builder but on hiatus. It usually takes me when I start a new build about 3 months to complete and have the aircraft airworthy. With the ARF's currently in production out there I have found it is easier on my pocket book and my time to buy one of them. If you take into consideration that a good quality arf has just about everything in the box minus engine and radio (some even come with those now) Well you do the math. 2 days or less and your flying. The downfall of owning arf's is now my collection has grown. When I was building I would own just 1 airplane now that the convenience of the arf is there, I now own 3 and will be looking for more the next week.

Oh well, I enjoy the building but I really enjoy the flying part better i.e. the social aspect of being around people with similat interest at the flying field. This also keeps me out of the house and away from the sudden "Honey can you do this". Come on you know what I mean if your married with children.

Anyway my 2 cents worth.

Glenn
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