Warbirds Over The Rockies
03-29-2010, 01:20 PM
#26
RE: Warbirds Over The Rockies
It is my understanding that the event overall, after everyone gets paid, is operating at a loss. The club essentially leases the field to the promoter. The amount the club receives is basically fixed.
As far as Love-air goes, we were operating at a loss as well. Dues needed to be raised to stay in the black. It was necessary. Now, being sensative to the economy and the rise of so many other expenses in our lives, we decided to put a hold on the runway assesment fees for an indefinite period, until we vote to re-instate them. This in hopes of attracting new members. So now is a good time to join!
This will be my 21st year attending competitions and events of all sorts. I have never experienced a "club member discount". This just does not occur. High entry fees were either created for "money" events, where there were cash prizes awarded to the winners, or to large events like the NATS, where the judges get paid. I have never seen large entry fees for demonstration events like the "Warbirds over the Rockies". "Scale masters" and "Top gun" are contests not demos so they are not the same beast in relation to WBOTR.
I am not going to argue one way or the other, but care must be taken not to go too far with the landing fees. If pilots are eliminated, then there goes the diversity of the show. The majority of the revenue is generated by the spectators. We must try to keep it interesting for them.
As far as Love-air goes, we were operating at a loss as well. Dues needed to be raised to stay in the black. It was necessary. Now, being sensative to the economy and the rise of so many other expenses in our lives, we decided to put a hold on the runway assesment fees for an indefinite period, until we vote to re-instate them. This in hopes of attracting new members. So now is a good time to join!
This will be my 21st year attending competitions and events of all sorts. I have never experienced a "club member discount". This just does not occur. High entry fees were either created for "money" events, where there were cash prizes awarded to the winners, or to large events like the NATS, where the judges get paid. I have never seen large entry fees for demonstration events like the "Warbirds over the Rockies". "Scale masters" and "Top gun" are contests not demos so they are not the same beast in relation to WBOTR.
I am not going to argue one way or the other, but care must be taken not to go too far with the landing fees. If pilots are eliminated, then there goes the diversity of the show. The majority of the revenue is generated by the spectators. We must try to keep it interesting for them.
03-29-2010, 01:57 PM
#27
RE: Warbirds Over The Rockies
Vertical Grimmace is right on about the "loss" each year... the club does get a fixed fee, which is a good thing for the club. The rest (always a loss) goes to the organizer and promoter. The facts are the facts.
Here's another perspective about the fee going from $30 last year to $50 this year. I fly warbirds and jets.....the pilot fees for these Jet events is always $50 to $75 and thye are just get togethers to enjoy flying.....certainly not a contest or an "event" like WOTR is and there is really no outlay of money for the event. We pay it, have fun, and head off to the next event. That's waht a hobby is about and all too often we forget this.
As for me, I cant wait till August....
Here's another perspective about the fee going from $30 last year to $50 this year. I fly warbirds and jets.....the pilot fees for these Jet events is always $50 to $75 and thye are just get togethers to enjoy flying.....certainly not a contest or an "event" like WOTR is and there is really no outlay of money for the event. We pay it, have fun, and head off to the next event. That's waht a hobby is about and all too often we forget this.
As for me, I cant wait till August....
03-29-2010, 02:21 PM
#28
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RE: Warbirds Over The Rockies
Anyone play golf? What does one round often cost? Now what if you played many rounds all weekend. Joe Nall fees run the same or more. I can't say this is out of the ordinary and in fact more events may have to up the fees to keep running them. Donors are giving less each year this "recession" drags on.
I have seen some smaller events offer a discount to club members but it's rare.
If I can make it to WOTR this year with the rest of the Minnesota crew I'll gladly pay the $50 and the enjoy the fun. After all the cost of driving there and paying for a hotel another $20 is not much to fuss over.
I have seen some smaller events offer a discount to club members but it's rare.
If I can make it to WOTR this year with the rest of the Minnesota crew I'll gladly pay the $50 and the enjoy the fun. After all the cost of driving there and paying for a hotel another $20 is not much to fuss over.
03-29-2010, 02:52 PM
#29
RE: Warbirds Over The Rockies
I see here the slogan - despite the economy situation, we raise the fees so we keep our profit up.
Well, I know a lot people who would travel a long way for an event - but they are not willing to spent $50 on landing fees. The majority in this Hobby is not so fortune to buy $1K $2K airplanes.
I liked that event in the past because you saw everyone. From the .40 size to Paul's 160 inch bomber. We will see how is that this year...
Last thought
Just $20?
well, I can for $20:
eat for two days or,
have gas for 5 days to work or,
go to the movies for two or,
buy 3 sheet-rock sheets for my son's new house or,
get my wife flowers or,
buy a book or two about warbirds
just 20? ....
Well, I know a lot people who would travel a long way for an event - but they are not willing to spent $50 on landing fees. The majority in this Hobby is not so fortune to buy $1K $2K airplanes.
I liked that event in the past because you saw everyone. From the .40 size to Paul's 160 inch bomber. We will see how is that this year...
Last thought
Just $20?
well, I can for $20:
eat for two days or,
have gas for 5 days to work or,
go to the movies for two or,
buy 3 sheet-rock sheets for my son's new house or,
get my wife flowers or,
buy a book or two about warbirds
just 20? ....
03-29-2010, 03:26 PM
#30
RE: Warbirds Over The Rockies
I never once said that the electric runway cost had anything to do with WOTR. Im confused as to why someone thought that. The club has spent more money then they took in last year......that equates to a loss...hence the dues going up.
Loveair wants WOTR to be a good event....but they dont want to rely on it for revenue for other things.
Loveair wants WOTR to be a good event....but they dont want to rely on it for revenue for other things.
03-29-2010, 05:17 PM
#32
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RE: Warbirds Over The Rockies
All:
It's too bad folks post things that get interpreted as fact when reality is the something entirely different. Love Air RC leased the field to WOTR for the event. The club was paid from a portion of spectator admission fees snd not pilot registration fees. No individual made any money. Period!!
The club benefits through income generated without risking any money and by introducing thousands of prospective new members to the hobby and the Love Air RC.
The club provided staff for all of the functions needed to run such an event. Brian, Bonnie, my wife Pam, myself and a host of others put in countless hours to make this world class event a pleasure for both pilots and spectators. From pilot appreciation and spectator enthusiasm to the press coverage the event has received, it's clear that we've been very successful!!
The event is first and foremost designed for the RC warbird pilot with the intent is to provide one of the best RC warbird events in the country. This year there will be several planes coming from other countries including Brazil, Italy and England. All of the demo flights are performed with any pilot that wants to participate.
WOTR offers much for both the spectators and pilots. The event features full scale flyovers (weather permitting), WWII veteran guest speakers, Sam Wright as the professional announcer, the thousands of dollars in pilot prizes and a great PYRO show. When was the last time you saw a full scale Seafury come down the middle of the runway on the deck so close that your teeth rattled??!!! All of these features cost the event cash.
Without going into the details, it cost over $50,000 to put on this event. Even with sponsors, donations and other contributions, the event still lost a significant amount of money last year. This loss was underwritten by Brian because he is passionate for warbirds and the event.
Brian, Bonnie, a core group of Love Air members and I are passionate about growing the event and making it even better in the future.
Mike Harrington
CD and Event Co-Director
It's too bad folks post things that get interpreted as fact when reality is the something entirely different. Love Air RC leased the field to WOTR for the event. The club was paid from a portion of spectator admission fees snd not pilot registration fees. No individual made any money. Period!!
The club benefits through income generated without risking any money and by introducing thousands of prospective new members to the hobby and the Love Air RC.
The club provided staff for all of the functions needed to run such an event. Brian, Bonnie, my wife Pam, myself and a host of others put in countless hours to make this world class event a pleasure for both pilots and spectators. From pilot appreciation and spectator enthusiasm to the press coverage the event has received, it's clear that we've been very successful!!
The event is first and foremost designed for the RC warbird pilot with the intent is to provide one of the best RC warbird events in the country. This year there will be several planes coming from other countries including Brazil, Italy and England. All of the demo flights are performed with any pilot that wants to participate.
WOTR offers much for both the spectators and pilots. The event features full scale flyovers (weather permitting), WWII veteran guest speakers, Sam Wright as the professional announcer, the thousands of dollars in pilot prizes and a great PYRO show. When was the last time you saw a full scale Seafury come down the middle of the runway on the deck so close that your teeth rattled??!!! All of these features cost the event cash.
Without going into the details, it cost over $50,000 to put on this event. Even with sponsors, donations and other contributions, the event still lost a significant amount of money last year. This loss was underwritten by Brian because he is passionate for warbirds and the event.
Brian, Bonnie, a core group of Love Air members and I are passionate about growing the event and making it even better in the future.
Mike Harrington
CD and Event Co-Director
03-29-2010, 05:22 PM
#33
RE: Warbirds Over The Rockies
Mike, it could not have been said it better...and this folks is the truth about what actually goes on behind the scenes...Now.....how much longer until September????
03-29-2010, 05:42 PM
#34
RE: Warbirds Over The Rockies
Bird of Paradise...you basically laid out what vertical grimace and I already stated....that the event costs more then what is brought in.
Also...no one said a sole person made a profit. Brian does get a share of the revenue(and u more or less stated that), but neither I nor Vertical Grimace said that the cut he gets covers all his costs to put on the show. Please stop inferring statements that were not made.
You also said Loveair leases the field to WOTR. Yes thats of course true. So my earlier statement that Loveair gets roughly $5000 is not inaccurate. That is their benefit, as you put it. I put it as profit...but again..not by a sole person, but the entity of loveair. That $5000 or whatever amount does not cover the field upgrades tho.
What you did NOT say was, that for the event to take place here, there were some upgrades required to be done to the field and location. A nice portion of the cost was covered by Brian and most everyone is appreciative of that, but, there was still a cost outlay by loveair to meet the requirements(or requests) made by those putting on WOTR. That obviously cost the club money(even tho not 100% of the cost to do the upgrades).... and is also a partial reason why the dues are going up. I dont think you can argue that.
As for the pilot registration going up, I also imagine its because of the total cost of the show, as you put it, $50,000. That also agrees with what VG and I stated earlier.
No one is or was arguing that WOTR isnt an awesome show. However, the discussion did include how ppl would feel about a $50 landing fee and how that MIGHT affect pilots decision to come or register. Thus, it could have an impact on total number of pilots and then ultimately number of planes seen at the show. If there are fewer planes present, it could also then effect spectator turnout. That is basically what a few here were suggesting could happen.
Also...no one said a sole person made a profit. Brian does get a share of the revenue(and u more or less stated that), but neither I nor Vertical Grimace said that the cut he gets covers all his costs to put on the show. Please stop inferring statements that were not made.
You also said Loveair leases the field to WOTR. Yes thats of course true. So my earlier statement that Loveair gets roughly $5000 is not inaccurate. That is their benefit, as you put it. I put it as profit...but again..not by a sole person, but the entity of loveair. That $5000 or whatever amount does not cover the field upgrades tho.
What you did NOT say was, that for the event to take place here, there were some upgrades required to be done to the field and location. A nice portion of the cost was covered by Brian and most everyone is appreciative of that, but, there was still a cost outlay by loveair to meet the requirements(or requests) made by those putting on WOTR. That obviously cost the club money(even tho not 100% of the cost to do the upgrades).... and is also a partial reason why the dues are going up. I dont think you can argue that.
As for the pilot registration going up, I also imagine its because of the total cost of the show, as you put it, $50,000. That also agrees with what VG and I stated earlier.
No one is or was arguing that WOTR isnt an awesome show. However, the discussion did include how ppl would feel about a $50 landing fee and how that MIGHT affect pilots decision to come or register. Thus, it could have an impact on total number of pilots and then ultimately number of planes seen at the show. If there are fewer planes present, it could also then effect spectator turnout. That is basically what a few here were suggesting could happen.
03-29-2010, 08:40 PM
#38
RE: Warbirds Over The Rockies
Good...because we are gonna charge u DOUBLE...just cauz' we like ya.....
I guess you're afraid of getting ran over in flight again? Better just stay on the ground then.....
McD's is on me old buddy.....a free lunch at McD's for Jeffery.....that alone is worth the trip, huh?
I guess you're afraid of getting ran over in flight again? Better just stay on the ground then.....
McD's is on me old buddy.....a free lunch at McD's for Jeffery.....that alone is worth the trip, huh?
03-29-2010, 08:52 PM
#40
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RE: Warbirds Over The Rockies
Jeff: In spite of what Ryan says, we look forward to having you at WOTR again this year. Ryan may need someone who can help with the crash truck. 
Mike
Mike
03-29-2010, 10:13 PM
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RE: Warbirds Over The Rockies
Hey guys,
Question about the aircraft qualifications to fly at WOTR... I was at the '08 show and seems like all the C-47s had the olive drab paint with D-Day markings. I've got an R4D (early Naval designation for the C-47) with a paint scheme used by NASA in the early 60's. Has the NASA logo but also has the stars and bars. Would that be an acceptable "warbird"?
I may sign up this year...... Do you have to be an AMA member?
Thanks,
Ben
Question about the aircraft qualifications to fly at WOTR... I was at the '08 show and seems like all the C-47s had the olive drab paint with D-Day markings. I've got an R4D (early Naval designation for the C-47) with a paint scheme used by NASA in the early 60's. Has the NASA logo but also has the stars and bars. Would that be an acceptable "warbird"?
I may sign up this year...... Do you have to be an AMA member?
Thanks,
Ben
03-29-2010, 10:31 PM
#44
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RE: Warbirds Over The Rockies
You'd be hard pressed to play a round of golf for $50.00. That lasts about 5 hours. Go bowling and do 3-4 games with your kids, that lasts 2 hours. Take a family of 4 to the movies and have some popcorn...that lasts two hours...need I go on..OR
spend three days (that's 72 hours) at what has become one of the premier RC events in the country with a lot of really great people, fly airplanes, see incredible warbirds, including a full-scale fly-by a Mustang or Sea Fury or whatever, not to mention the models, and likely walk away with a prize worth somewhere between $20.00 and $500.00 (just for attending)...what am i missing here? Yeah OK, you have to drive, and stay in a motel, and pay to eat.... It will be one of the best weekends you'll have all year...(just my opinion) This is an event you should not miss..It's SO worth it. Kudos to Brian and Bonnie
spend three days (that's 72 hours) at what has become one of the premier RC events in the country with a lot of really great people, fly airplanes, see incredible warbirds, including a full-scale fly-by a Mustang or Sea Fury or whatever, not to mention the models, and likely walk away with a prize worth somewhere between $20.00 and $500.00 (just for attending)...what am i missing here? Yeah OK, you have to drive, and stay in a motel, and pay to eat.... It will be one of the best weekends you'll have all year...(just my opinion) This is an event you should not miss..It's SO worth it. Kudos to Brian and Bonnie
03-30-2010, 08:41 AM
#46
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RE: Warbirds Over The Rockies
Once again I see a post that is really wandering from the intended subject. The WTOR event has nothing to do with club dues or runway assessments. It is an event the club voted on and decided to "host" on a yearly basis in cooperation with Brian Omeara. I personally know the amount of time Brian and Bonnie expend each year to produce this event. Many "behind the scene" costs are associated with this eventtraffic control, security, prizes, sanitation facilities, advertising, guest speakers, county costs and the list could go on.
Anyone who has attended this event knows it is a "first-class" event hosted by Brian Omeara and the Loveair RC club. It is one of the classiest RC events I have attended throughout my years of being associated with this hobby. The social benefits of this event alone are enough to justify the $50 landing fee. Have you considered the positive effects this event has on our hobby? Families come from all around the Colorado area to see this event. They leave with a greater understanding of the hobby and why we spend the time and money on our wonderful toys.
I appreciate each and every pilot that attends and makes this a very diverse event celebrating the aircraft that have, over the years, been instrumental in providing us with the freedom to host an event such as WOTR. Every pilot that attends WOTR has a story to tell about his/her aircraft. WOTR is a social event for pilots and crew that cannot be matched!
Anyone who has attended this event knows it is a "first-class" event hosted by Brian Omeara and the Loveair RC club. It is one of the classiest RC events I have attended throughout my years of being associated with this hobby. The social benefits of this event alone are enough to justify the $50 landing fee. Have you considered the positive effects this event has on our hobby? Families come from all around the Colorado area to see this event. They leave with a greater understanding of the hobby and why we spend the time and money on our wonderful toys.
I appreciate each and every pilot that attends and makes this a very diverse event celebrating the aircraft that have, over the years, been instrumental in providing us with the freedom to host an event such as WOTR. Every pilot that attends WOTR has a story to tell about his/her aircraft. WOTR is a social event for pilots and crew that cannot be matched!
03-30-2010, 10:11 AM
#48
RE: Warbirds Over The Rockies
ORIGINAL: falconco
Once again I see a post that is really wandering from the intended subject. The WTOR event has nothing to do with club dues or runway assessments.
Once again I see a post that is really wandering from the intended subject. The WTOR event has nothing to do with club dues or runway assessments.
In any event, the reasons for the dues increase is mute as it doesnt effect 50% of the pilots that show up.
03-30-2010, 01:08 PM
#49
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RE: Warbirds Over The Rockies
Wow I hope so Ben, Nice plane! Yes I do agree that times are tough, But I for one will be going to Warbirds over the Rockies. This will be my 4th and out of all the airplane events that I have been to this is by far my favorite! It is a show that I do enjoy so much! I do hope that the landing fee's do not go up after this for awhile till we see where the econemy will go, But I need this event for something to look forward too, I hope we will have these events in the next many years. But who knows what even next year will bring! I will have to scrape to make this event but am thankful it is not far from home for me! It will more then likely be the only event I will be able to make this year! But I know it will be tough for alot of folks to make it, no telling how high fuel will be by then! Not sure this was a good year to go up on the event but I will be there! Do hope to see as many as can be there up there. It is well worth the time spent, Bob
Want to keep from crashing? take off and land higher!
Want to keep from crashing? take off and land higher!
03-30-2010, 02:29 PM
#50
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RE: Warbirds Over The Rockies
my plan is to be there. Heck, it is the reson I got 2-3 airplans RTF and bought a trailer. I just hope he event costs dont drive it into the same corner the Byron show did yrs back. They stopped bein a pilots event and the pilots stopped showing up and it died on the vine. The events I held for my club, I would have a lower entry fee for these guys since it is their field....but my events were just local.