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ESM Hawker Typhoon ARF build thread

Old 04-27-2010, 10:04 AM
  #1  
stevelesl
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Default ESM Hawker Typhoon ARF build thread

Hello all, I am about to receive the ESM Hawker Typhoon ARF kit with the ESM retracts from Troy built models and would like to give a blow by blow account of the build (well assembly) on this thread.
It should be with me on Thursday this week (28th April) so the first pictures will be posted this weekend.
A little about me, I live in Houston but am a Scottish national, I have been living in your great country now for four years, work brought me here and as far as this hobby is concerned it has been fantastic.
I first flew CL models with little Cox engines in the 70's, I moved on to RC and flew many different planes for around 12 years. Time availability, kids and money gradually took me out of the hobby in 1990 and it wasnt until I moved here to the US that I got the bug again.
I have built many kits, from simple trainers through aerobatic models and warbirds but now my planes tend to be ARF, I have eight flying models right now, a Giant Big stik, a GP Revolver, a Corby Starlet 39% (look it up), three LA racers for pylon racing an AMR 26 (canadian kit) with a 4 stk Honda in it and a BAE Hawk electric Jet.
So, enough about me, the Typhoon will have an Evolution 35GT which I got on an unbeleivable deal on eBay, it is new with the Evolution pitts muffler and should fit totally enclosed in the cowl due to its Carb being up front, I intend using the ESM retracts, I know there are Sierra Precision ones out there etc but I have two club members that are flying ESM models with the ESM retracts and they have had no great issues, heck, the wheels alone are worth the price they charge for the whole retract set.
I use Futaba 2.4 radio and will use the S3152 servos all round except I may be able to uzse a micro servo on the throttle, we will see.
Ok, so thats that, next post will have some pics of the Big box, whoopee, cant wait.
By the way, i am open to any and all advice, sugestions etc so feel free to post away, only thing I would like to avoid is any comments that would detract from the building of this kit, sometimes I have seen threads hijacked by discusions on other planes and the thread eventually ends up way off subject.

thanks

Steve
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Old 04-27-2010, 12:50 PM
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Default RE: ESM Hawker Typhoon ARF build thread

you may like to know that forum member pitts, does a full rocket kit for the tiff, makes all the differance,


just keep everything as far forward as possible, even down to making a brass prop nut for under the spinner, spinners of the correct size and form can be obtained from DB SPORT AND SCALE, in the UK, i have put a link in the main tiff thread on this page, have fun
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Old 04-27-2010, 12:55 PM
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Default RE: ESM Hawker Typhoon ARF build thread

sweet deal Steve, looking foward to the build and pics. I can't get enough of Typhoons..
as far as I'm concerned, that was the best WarBird the RAF had.
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Old 04-27-2010, 01:00 PM
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Default RE: ESM Hawker Typhoon ARF build thread

Thanks, I saw your link for the spinner and intend getting one when I'm in the UK at the end of May.
Missed the Rocket Kit so will check it out.
By the way, the kit arrived at lunch time today, ultra fast delivery, ordered at 10.00 am on the 22nd and arrived today 27th, had s sneak peek at the retracts, amazing for the price, those big 4" Alloy split rim wheels alone would sell for $100 at many stores.
Cant wait till tonight...............
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Old 04-27-2010, 01:13 PM
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Default RE: ESM Hawker Typhoon ARF build thread


ORIGINAL: alanc

you may like to know that forum member pitts, does a full rocket kit for the tiff, makes all the differance,


just keep everything as far forward as possible, even down to making a brass prop nut for under the spinner, spinners of the correct size and form can be obtained from DB SPORT AND SCALE, in the UK, i have put a link in the main tiff thread on this page, have fun[img][/img]

Cant find the Rocket Kit and user pitts doesnt show as having posted ?. can you direct me to the info.

Thanks
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Old 04-27-2010, 05:14 PM
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Default RE: ESM Hawker Typhoon ARF build thread

i will search it out this week, unless someone gets there first
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Old 04-27-2010, 09:42 PM
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Default RE: ESM Hawker Typhoon ARF build thread

ok, here we go, I unpacked the huge box which was very well packed, every thing was in perfect condition.
The wing sections are really nice as is the fuselage, the cowl is a work of art and is huge !!, I mean really huge (see pics).
The retracts are very nice indeed, they look as good as any I have seen and everytime I think about the cost, I cant understand how they do it for the price (well I do, I guess it's the underpaid workers in China) even the box for the retracts is nice with it's foam packing.
So, what to do first, I cheched every part to ensure it was all there, it was, not sure if Iwill use all the supplied hardware, some of it is not the best but we will see as we go on.
Couldnt resist seeing how my Evolution 35GT was going to fit under that huge cowl, answer is that it will be completely enclosed, even the muffler outlets will need extentions to get them out of the bottom of the cowl. BUT, first challenge appeared, the Evolution pitts muffler hits the bulkhead which will need modifying to allow it to fit (see pics). The distance from the firewall to the prop drive flange is only 153mm, not too short for most engines but if you use a pits muffler I think you will have similar issues (who said ARF planes isnt "building" !!)
Most of the instructions are sufficient but suffer from the usual translation challenges. Looks like the pull pull system for the elevators and rudder will work quite well but I am still thinking about it, ailerons are standard servos in the wing and push rods, the flaps are nice but have a strange connection method between the inboard (servo driven flap) to the outboard flap, it is a peice of steel cable about a 1/6th thick, it gets epoxied into the end of the servo driven flap and the other end goes in a hole in the outboard flap. When retracted, both the inboard flaps outer end and the outboard flaps inner end are touching so the wire is concealed and holds the outboard flap in the up position, when you extend the flaps, the inner flap is driven by the servo (as per the norm) but as it extends, it drives the outer one down with the wire, as they both extend, the outer flap inner end and the inner flaps outer end move apart (due to the dihedral angle between the center wing section and the outer wing section), only the inner part of the wire is glued, the outer is free to slide in and out of the hole in the outer flap. Sorry if this doesnt make sense but hey, I'm doing my best
So after a few pictures were taken, evening number one is passed, now comes the good part, day dreaming about puting it together.
Upates soon.
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Old 04-27-2010, 10:51 PM
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Default RE: ESM Hawker Typhoon ARF build thread

I love how pic put it all into perspective ! keep em coming ! I like your engine choice haven't had the pleasure of using or seeing this engine in action , have you used it before ?
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Old 04-27-2010, 11:50 PM
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Default RE: ESM Hawker Typhoon ARF build thread

Hi Steve,

The GT35 with the Evolution Pitts muffler is the exact motor I bought to use on mine. I too got a great deal on it on Ebay. With the Evolution radial mount that is available, it puts the prop washer at nearly the perfect position to line up with the cowl. I was really looking forward to using that motor/muffler but after looking at it further, I didnt feel comfortable (or energetic enough) to chop up the firewall to make the muffler work. Especially since I could see no way getting into the area rear of the firewall (through the fuse where the fuel tank goes). I guess it was just more than I wanted to deal with. Another thing you may not be aware of yet, the cowling will hit the Walbro carb (in the area below the spinner and above the air intake/grill). Again, you could hack away at the cowling to get it to fit but to me ... the cowling was one of the main reasons I LOVE this plane. So again, I chose not to cut up the cowl and instead went with another new engine I had sitting on the shelf, the Saito 2.20. So now I have a NIB Evolution GT 35, pitts muffler and radial mount that needs a home! Hmmm .... what to build next.

Like Alan says, keep as much weight as far forward as possible. Even with that gas engine you have there, you will need lead in the nose. I used a huge 5 cell 3600 mah NiCad battery and put it right up there behind the firewall and below the fuel tank. It fit there perfectly. I used epoxy with milled fiber liberally to beef up the firewall from behind and inside the cowling to hold my exhaust stacks and front grill. Knowing I would need the weight. Use JUST enough glue in the tail assembly to make it strong but NO extra.

Another thing to check is the elevator control wire mechanism. It has the pull pull arm soldered to it and then the wire bends gets glued into the elevators. On mine, the joint was soldered just on one side. The other side had no solder and I could see like a gap there around the wire and pull pull arm juncture. So I re-soldered it to make sure that never breaks. Kinda important as the whole plane is relying on this one solder joint! Let me know what yours looks like. Would be nice to have separate servos on the elevators. But that would make the tail heavier yet and add a ton of work.

Well... you are going to have fun putting this plane together. The fit of everything was great and the ESM retracts are awesome. They work fantastic. Very robust. And yes ... those wheels are to die for! (Grease em up good on the axles though) I could go on and on but I will close for now.

Take care,
Charles

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Old 04-28-2010, 08:56 AM
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Default RE: ESM Hawker Typhoon ARF build thread

I too noticed that the carb will interfere with the cowl at the front, bummer, I am going to investigate further as far as how much will have to be removed, really want to use this motor, I did think about the Saito FG36 but price is just too high and it too has length issues.
The elevator crank looks ok but I will take your advice and solder it up both sides. Weight in the nose will be needed so again I will be doing something along the lines of what you did, I have a 39% Corby Starlett that I used lead shot in epoxy at the front of the cowl, that really gets the weight up front,. may do the same with this one.
How did your flap connector wires work ?, the ones that join the inner and outer flaps.

I have not used the Evolution gas engines before, they get a great write up and are the same engines as MVVS that sell in Europe, pretty high quality I believe.
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Old 04-28-2010, 02:27 PM
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Default RE: ESM Hawker Typhoon ARF build thread

forum members name for the rockets, (and he may do guns) is Pittss3s he is in cape coral, florida
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Old 04-28-2010, 02:41 PM
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Default RE: ESM Hawker Typhoon ARF build thread

shame about the muffler, but generally, on gas engines, its customise your own, the motor will be a great one for the tiff, there is loads of room under the engine, make a down pipe, and put it there, re the elevator horn, no probs there, but i use metal clevises, connected to the pull pull, i use the supplied cable, i cant snap it, must be good!! and believe me, ive tried!!
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Old 04-28-2010, 02:55 PM
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Default RE: ESM Hawker Typhoon ARF build thread


ORIGINAL: alanc

forum members name for the rockets, (and he may do guns) is Pittss3s he is in cape coral, florida

Thanks for the lead
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Old 04-28-2010, 03:12 PM
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Default RE: ESM Hawker Typhoon ARF build thread

Yeah .. you can easily get around the muffler issue by using a different muffler. Then there would be no firewall modification needed. That Evo Pitts muffler is so sweet though! So with a different muffler, the only mod would be cutting away to make room for the carb.

The flap wire mechanism works great. I believe there is like nyrod housing or something buried in the flaps to guide the wire along. You just need to set it up "dry" before gluing the hinges or wire and make sure they go up and down smoothly. I used different wires too. I think the wire that came with mine was the wrong diameter for holes. Plus ... when you run the wire down inside the flaps, note how far they can slide and mark them. I was able to make them considerably longer than what was called for. More to glue in the one flap and more to support the other flap where it slides in and out a bit. The trick is getting them bent properly. They do not just go straight in. Note that the relative dihedral between the inboard and outboard flaps does not allow the wire to go straight from one flap to the other. It has to be bent a bit to work without binding. But like I said, if you do all this before gluing anything, you can get it all working smoothly prior to final assembly and gluing. Cuz you only get one shot at it. Once the flaps are glued in, there is no turning back.

Like Alan said, use metal clevis's in the tail. The wire for the pull pull elevator and rudder that came with the plane works fine.

I wonder why you would have a length issue with the Saito Gas engine? Isnt it the same dimensions as the 2.20? I know the carb is probably bigger but a hole in the firewall for the carb would be a ton easier then altering the whole thing for the pitts muffler of the Evo. It is very pricey though ... yikes! But ... it will pay for itself in fuel savings over the long haul. My 2.20 is VERY THIRSTY!! I even put a bigger tank in but still only get 8 minutes max per flight. Easy to burn up a gallon a day with that beast. Thats another reason to use a gasser of some sort. Smaller tank isnt an issue. You still get a good long flight.

well ... I better get back to my build project .... catch ya later.
Charles
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Old 04-29-2010, 09:07 PM
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Default RE: ESM Hawker Typhoon ARF build thread

Spent another few hours tonight getting the engine and cowl fitted (just wanted to get it in my head that it was going to work with the engine).
Had to cut some of the cowl away to miss the carb at the front and a real small area to allow the muffler to clear, I am considering making a patch as it were for the area where the carb is and will put a small blister where the little muffler hole is. Also found that I could get full access to the low and high speed ajustment on the carb by cutting a small hole so went ahead and did that too (will save removing the cowl to tune the engine as it loosens up
I cut a disc from some thin ply to simulate the spinner back plate and mounted the engine on an alloy beam mount, the whole thing lines up pretty good for now so at least i know it's going to fit.
Cut away the lower bulkhead to allow the muffler to resess into the lower front fuselage which I will box off later, I'm pretty pleased with the way it all goes together.
last thing tonight was adding a doubler to the back of the firewall, it is only about 5/16" thick standard so added a thin peice of ply to the back. Aslo laid some glass cloth on the back of the firewall and the upper fuselage front, will do the sides and bottom also as the fiberglass is not real thick and I will need weight anyway so wont hurt.
See pics below.
Well thats it for tonight, more soon
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Old 04-29-2010, 09:37 PM
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Default RE: ESM Hawker Typhoon ARF build thread

Lookin good!
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Old 04-30-2010, 08:41 AM
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Default RE: ESM Hawker Typhoon ARF build thread


ORIGINAL: cfv007

Yeah .. you can easily get around the muffler issue by using a different muffler. Then there would be no firewall modification needed. That Evo Pitts muffler is so sweet though! So with a different muffler, the only mod would be cutting away to make room for the carb.

The flap wire mechanism works great. I believe there is like nyrod housing or something buried in the flaps to guide the wire along. You just need to set it up ''dry'' before gluing the hinges or wire and make sure they go up and down smoothly. I used different wires too. I think the wire that came with mine was the wrong diameter for holes. Plus ... when you run the wire down inside the flaps, note how far they can slide and mark them. I was able to make them considerably longer than what was called for. More to glue in the one flap and more to support the other flap where it slides in and out a bit. The trick is getting them bent properly. They do not just go straight in. Note that the relative dihedral between the inboard and outboard flaps does not allow the wire to go straight from one flap to the other. It has to be bent a bit to work without binding. But like I said, if you do all this before gluing anything, you can get it all working smoothly prior to final assembly and gluing. Cuz you only get one shot at it. Once the flaps are glued in, there is no turning back.

Like Alan said, use metal clevis's in the tail. The wire for the pull pull elevator and rudder that came with the plane works fine.

I wonder why you would have a length issue with the Saito Gas engine? Isnt it the same dimensions as the 2.20? I know the carb is probably bigger but a hole in the firewall for the carb would be a ton easier then altering the whole thing for the pitts muffler of the Evo. It is very pricey though ... yikes! But ... it will pay for itself in fuel savings over the long haul. My 2.20 is VERY THIRSTY!! I even put a bigger tank in but still only get 8 minutes max per flight. Easy to burn up a gallon a day with that beast. Thats another reason to use a gasser of some sort. Smaller tank isnt an issue. You still get a good long flight.

well ... I better get back to my build project .... catch ya later.
Charles
Great tips on the flap mechanism, thanks.
Yes, The Saito FG would fit if you cut out the bulkhead for the carb at the back but you also have to use a split type engine mount, the one that comes with the engine (which is real nice) makes the whole assembly too long for this plane, they are just too damn expensive though, the only real benefit to them is getting the four stroke sound and the low cost for gas over glow fuel, when you look at what you can buy for the price of the FG it is a tough decision. You are right about the savings over glow fuel though, I have a saito 180 in a giant stick and it guzzles the juice !.
I'm hoping my Evolution will give me the low running costs and the power and at the end of the day, the Evo cost me $320 new (with muffler) and the cheapest I could find a used Saito FG36 was $550, hey, by my wifes logic, that means I saved $230 so in fact, the Evo only cost me $90, lets go buy some shoes

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Old 04-30-2010, 06:21 PM
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Default RE: ESM Hawker Typhoon ARF build thread

I got 3 GREAT flights on mine today. This was the first time I used full flaps on landing. I have my flaps on a slider on the right side of my radio. I also slowed the servo speed way down so I can just move the slider all the way down quickly, then the flaps s-l-o-w-l-y lower until full deployment. No pitch changes at all ... comes in nice and slow till over the numbers then flair and lower power to idle and she sinks right in nicely. Fun!

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Old 05-01-2010, 01:14 AM
  #19  
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Default RE: ESM Hawker Typhoon ARF build thread

Super sweet install....nice pics.
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Old 05-02-2010, 09:02 PM
  #20  
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Default RE: ESM Hawker Typhoon ARF build thread


ORIGINAL: cfv007

I got 3 GREAT flights on mine today. This was the first time I used full flaps on landing. I have my flaps on a slider on the right side of my radio. I also slowed the servo speed way down so I can just move the slider all the way down quickly, then the flaps s-l-o-w-l-y lower until full deployment. No pitch changes at all ... comes in nice and slow till over the numbers then flair and lower power to idle and she sinks right in nicely. Fun!

Do you have or can you post any Video of it flying ?.
Flaps sound great, did you have any down elevator mixed in ?.
I installed the thottle servo and ignition today, going to finish up boxing in around the muffler next and then will post more pics.
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Old 05-02-2010, 10:21 PM
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Default RE: ESM Hawker Typhoon ARF build thread

Sorry, I have no videos yet. John Reid from Model Airplane News took a video and said he would send me a copy but I havent seen anything yet.

I didnt have to mix any down elevator with the flaps. Doesnt seem to need it.

I cant wait to see how yours flies with that GT 35.
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Old 05-02-2010, 11:58 PM
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Default RE: ESM Hawker Typhoon ARF build thread

I reciently got one of there planes off of RCU. The builder was really bad..so I have to fix almost everything. It is alot of work, but I can fix everything. This is a really nice kit. I hope to have mine ready for Warbirds over Denver.
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Old 05-03-2010, 09:01 PM
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Default RE: ESM Hawker Typhoon ARF build thread

Johnny don't forget the weathering ! LOL looking good ! keep the pic coming
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Old 05-05-2010, 02:59 PM
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Default RE: ESM Hawker Typhoon ARF build thread

Update, I have taken this week off the project as I compete in Club 40 pylon racing and needed to get my planes ready for a race this weekend in New Waverley (Had three, wrecked two in Waco two weeks ago so needed to build one [:@] ).
More this weekend.
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Old 05-05-2010, 11:01 PM
  #25  
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Default RE: ESM Hawker Typhoon ARF build thread

Here is some advice. Beef up the retract mount area. I had added some extra glue but I guess it really needed more.
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