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ESM 50cc Corsair

Old 07-20-2014, 03:22 PM
  #2351  
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LBJ

Congratulations!! Glad it went well for you. Can't wait to see the video. Getting ready to paint mine.

Tim
Old 07-20-2014, 08:10 PM
  #2352  
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Sounds good bro, congrats.
Few q's
What prop did ya run on the FG84?
CG?
How much fuel, tank size?

Also where did ya mount the ingnition box?

Once again, well done. Now enjoy her.

Matt
Old 07-20-2014, 08:58 PM
  #2353  
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Super...Congrats on the maiden...must feel great to finally get her in the air...can't wait to see some videos.
Was the AUW with fuel 35 lbs?

jim
Old 07-20-2014, 11:47 PM
  #2354  
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Originally Posted by jimkron
Super...Congrats on the maiden...must feel great to finally get her in the air...can't wait to see some videos.
Was the AUW with fuel 35 lbs?

jim
+1
Old 07-21-2014, 03:06 AM
  #2355  
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Thanks, all. the Fuel tank that came with from ESM is what I used - 27 ounce. Reworked the opening a bit to use a Dubro gas-proof stopper and cover. I used this tank because it fit in the narrow opening in the servo tray, of course, and according to Saito's gas consumption specs, I can run full open for 20 minutes with 27 ounces gas. That's way longer than I ever fly. Prop is Xoar 24x10 which turned 5900 rpm on the ground. The ignition box is against the bulkhead and fuselage in front of the gas tank, on the top side, held in with Velcro on two sides. That keeps it out of the way of any gas that might leak out to the bottom of the fuselage (not too likely, but could happen), plus I needed to run the plug wires out the top half of the firewall over the engine. The model less gas is 34.25 pounds. So, with gas I'd say an even 35 pounds. Think that answers all the questions. Still haven't seen any pics or movies come my way, yet.
Old 07-21-2014, 04:39 AM
  #2356  
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LBJ, I know you were super happy to see your creation fly after a year of hard work and meticulous setup. The time invested in building and properly balancing the plane (and the perfect weather conditions) helped make the maiden a non-event as far as drama. All went as good as could be expected.

And what an engine! Wow, it performed flawlessly and sounded great.

Good job my friend!




Sonny
Old 07-21-2014, 04:47 AM
  #2357  
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LBJ, so you have the FG-84 R3 ?

And it is a standard FG-84, from factory, no modifications? ( I have one to, you see, testing on the ground nowadays, and pretty nervous regarding adjusting needles, and baffling.....)
Old 07-21-2014, 06:58 AM
  #2358  
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Hi sonny! Thanks again for taking the pressure off me on the first flight! You flew and landed her just great.

Kwik, yes the FG-84 as on this thread way back there. I flew her box stock as far as modifications that others have been making. I did use Fred Culbertson's needle valve settings as he found the factory settings to be a bit off. I'll see if I wrote those down anywhere and post them. And from the first run to the first two flights, I haven't touched them. All my cowl baffle work is on the thread here (Page 83). I can clearly say that all that work paid off. As an update, I pulled the cowl this morning and looked at the valve clearances and made a few minor tighten ups, but for the most part, they were still right at 0.0015" (clear) to 0.0020" (interference). I pulled one retract to give a look for any damage and looked at the other still installed with a flashlight saw no damage. They only showed some compression on the grease marks where I bounced a bit on my landing. But, that's how they are supposed to work, so no damage there. She's all back together now and ready to go again.

Kwik, one more thing on that "air bubble" in the carb that Saito mentions in their booklet. I never had one moment of trouble with that issue. We both flew around 5 minutes each and I even did a slow barrel roll and the engine never missed a beat. So, that might be a non-issue and until I have a problem, I won't worry too much about that one. Fred Culbertson (H9 Corsair) said it wasn't a problem for him either. Also, be sure to run the 16:1 gas oil ratio. I recommend Klotz synthetic oil if you can get it in Norway or the other oil Saito calls for if not. That's 8 oz oil per gallon of course.

Below is from Fred Culbertson on the FG-84.

"I am having a lot of custom work performed on the engine. I have had a bearing installed on the main rod as well as replaced the stock intake system (which is a problem) with fuel rods. If you want to check out the custom work being performed you can see it at
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2071116

GO to the last pages to see most of the completed project parts. The FG 84 has an intake that makes the bottom cylinders run rich while the top runs lean so you have to find a happy medium. The needles are very sloppy to set. Also, the instructions state the high needle should be at 2 turns and the low at 5. This is way off.

You high needle should be around 3 ½ turns and the low needle should be around 4. This was tested and confirmed by Horizon and Ray English."

Last edited by LBJ; 07-21-2014 at 07:22 AM.
Old 07-21-2014, 08:29 AM
  #2359  
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Glad to hear the engine performed well without any modifications! I intend to try it myself without any mods.

One thing that is very, very important, I think; Before first run; Inject some oil into the breather nipple for the crank case.

It will lubricate cams and bearings in there. I intend to fill some oil there every now and then.

Laser engines says you should fill oil every 3 hours. This is not a Laser, but the principle is the same;

The oil is in the gasoline, which is not going via the crankcase. So....to be kind to the engine....fill some oil.

I had to set the H needle at 4 in order to reach 6400 rpm on a Mejzlik 24x10.

Last edited by kwik; 07-21-2014 at 08:33 AM.
Old 07-21-2014, 09:13 AM
  #2360  
LBJ
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Kwik, the oil in the crankcase is a good idea. But after several engine runs and 2 flights, there is oil coming out of the drain nipple. It takes an hour or so to get out, but it's there. Fred Culbertson suggests making the drain tube have a "loop" in it to keep the oil up in the crank case. It can still get out, but has a bit of travel to do first.
Old 07-21-2014, 09:47 AM
  #2361  
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Congrats LBJ.............YOU DA MAN OF DA HOUR.................I flew the maiden on mine and I shook the whole time. My buddy standing next to me, said later my fingers were shaking so bad on the sticks. Somehow I worked through it and get her up and down. Third season now and still going strong. Couldn't afford the sweet FG84 tho, had to go with an old Brison 4.2 I had laying around but boy what a job it does. Hope you have many years of enjoyment from the plane and engine. How about "Warbirds over Pueblo" over Labor day? We're not to far North of ya.

CAPTAIN RON
Old 07-21-2014, 09:49 AM
  #2362  
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Good to hear that. It is most important in the very beginning; The crank case is totally dry for a while.

Then there is the matter of tolerances again. One of my FG-57's was lubricating very well. The other one was so dry that one could hear a squeaking sound from the valve springs.

Then you know it needs oil....but a bit late....

My FG-84 has the following peculiar behavour ( I havent adjusted the needles that much, so there is still hope ) ;

When I accelerate it from idle to max it goes up to 6400 rpm, which is heaven for me.

Then it creeps down to 6000 rpm, and stays there. Arggggghhh ! How to get it to stay at 6400 ??
Old 07-21-2014, 01:42 PM
  #2363  
LBJ
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Thanks Capt Ron. The Radial engine sound is what it's all about for me, on this one, really, although I got carried away with a total repaint in the process. Probably could saved a couple of pounds without the repaint. I've been to Pueblo West in 2003 and that's a nice drive. I probably won't travel for a Labor Day RC weekend though. I made that drive in 2003 in an almost brand new Corvette, which was a blast every mile, but my 2004 Chevy PU isn't quite that much fun. Ha

Kwik, do you mean the servo isn't holding position, or does the engine just slow down? 6K rpm is pretty dang good anyway. I hope that Saito put a little lube on the internals before they shipped the FG-84 as I didn't pre-oil the deep internals. I did oil the rocker arms and ends of the valves before hand though.
Old 07-21-2014, 01:53 PM
  #2364  
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The servo is holding the position. The Rpm goes straight up to 6400, then unfortunately slowly decrease to 6000 and stays there.

Last edited by kwik; 07-21-2014 at 02:07 PM.
Old 07-21-2014, 02:13 PM
  #2365  
LBJ
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I have to say, that beats me! Maybe someone will have an answer.
Old 07-21-2014, 02:23 PM
  #2366  
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Beats me too. For now.

Irritating to know there is a possibility for 400 rpm's more, but, you cant have it.

hehe.

I bet you are looking forwards to the next flight.
Old 07-21-2014, 03:05 PM
  #2367  
LBJ
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Yes, looking forward to more flights, but right now it's gotta be pushing 100 deg F and 100 percent humidity! Gonna have to make flights early in the day before it really heats up. We got lucky here with temps in the 80's and rain a week ago, but that was too good to last.

There is also the possibility it will make more RPM once airborne and of course, after she gets broken-in some. Saito prints in their booklet that 7K RPM is the practical engine speed. So, I expect her to really get going after some break in time. Flying is the best way to break an engine in, far as I'm concerned. I haven't run an engine on a static test stand since the 80's! ha

Still not done with the bird. Added the rest of the cockpit details that came with the Top Flite kit. Throttle lever, mixture, prop, gunsight and combiner glass, and some switch decals. Also changed out the access hatch hold down from a 4-40 bolt to a magnet.









Last edited by LBJ; 07-21-2014 at 03:10 PM.
Old 07-22-2014, 05:39 AM
  #2368  
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Very nice LBJ !

I set the H needle to 4 ( It was more like 4.5......) and it is steady at 6300 rpm now. Good grief that engine sounds nice! It is a monster and a jewel at the same time.

I also put baffling in the cowling. Its quite hot here as well, I mean, yes, this is norway, but still, hot for us norwegians.
Old 07-22-2014, 07:34 AM
  #2369  
LBJ
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Glad to hear you got those lost rpm's back! ha

I think baffling is important just about any time of year. Dead of winter, maybe not, but I don't fly then anyway. Maybe you guys over there do fly on skis, which would be very neat to try.
Old 07-25-2014, 11:43 PM
  #2370  
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Hey LBJ,

How did you prime your FG84? Do use that silly rod/grubscrew set up?
Or did you use a starter to bring the fuel up for first start? I noticed running on the bench it likes to be fairly wet for start up.

Matt
Old 07-26-2014, 02:18 AM
  #2371  
LBJ
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Matt, I use a 24 volt Sullivan starter which started the radial very first time in about 2 or 3 seconds. No choking or anything, just the starter. Has worked fine on all starts.
Old 07-26-2014, 04:12 AM
  #2372  
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Ok, good. On the bench it always started easily. Just that choking system looked kinda convoluted.

Matt
Old 07-26-2014, 04:21 AM
  #2373  
LBJ
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Hand propping? Not so sure about that one. But, after the first start of the day, might be OK. I use a starter on everything that it will spin. My DA-85 is too big for it, so have to hand prop. But DLE-55's on-down will go with the 24 volt starter.
Old 07-26-2014, 04:30 AM
  #2374  
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Yeah, only takes 1 or 2 flicks. Really good. Just that first start of the day that will need a starter.
Old 07-26-2014, 07:19 AM
  #2375  
LBJ
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So far, this is the only photo I have of the flight. Hope to get a video from a guy who takes good movies, but he works full time and runs another business on the side, so he may be a while getting to his video. Ed Couch took this one with a point and shoot camera.


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