Doug47

My Feedback: (24)

You've sure got that right Raptureboy.
Out of the box the 615's are JUNK. They were junk when they were first introduced and they're junk today. Sure, if you're into modifying them to take out all of their considerable defects,maybe they can be serviceable but not everyone is into trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear. I've owned them, I've seen others screw around with theirs and words can't describe what a disapointment they were to me and the other guys.
I've been flying and building a long time. Those things, rated by people who've owned them, are pretty much universally loathed more than any single retract product I've seen introduced in 30 years. They were the only game in town for years, so lots of folks bought them. Rare it is to see a flier buy a second set.
Also, anyone thinking tiny set screws holding on a strut is going to hold up without constant twiddling with them, especially on grass fields, isn't being honest with themselves.
Sierras don't have any 'issues' other than being VERY durable, they fit perfectly and you can even chooose the forward rake when deployed,and they are built by people who fly,and fly off rough fields. Expensive they are , but so are the patheic 615's after you spend hours modifying htem, plus the repairs you'll perform and buy parts for when the 615's fold their links(oh, yes they do !), only one leg bomes down, or when they just collapse on their pathetic little selves.
Look at the Sierras . Doug

andernamen

My Feedback: (3)

For those of you that complain about the 615's, i'd love to see YOUR design for a better retract. It cant be too heavy, no, no, cant collapse despite crappy landings, must track perfectly and never wear out! Just sayin, with our small models you HAVE to comprimise somewhere. There is no perfect retract. Ok, rant over. Happy flying.

da Rock

Yup, model retracts can make us tear our hair out, and most have. And nowadays none of us have any surplus hair to lose.

However, most of the posts here are recounts of observations along with the opinion. It is pretty clear that right now there certainly aren't any perfect retracts, but if you look at the rest of the components we've got in our hobby, it's clear that perfect can be done. And a bunch of our parts and products are good if not perfect. Look at what our radios can do. Look at OS engines. Hitec servos and other brands. It's done with a bunch of stuff we use. The problem we're having now is that a lot of the present retracts go beyond not-perfect.

You're perfectly correct about wanting to see someone design a better retract. Almost all of us have projects that need exactly that, better retracts, especially at the amazing prices most today advertise.

The real shame is that our hobby really doesn't support what modern marketing and manufacturing demands. In the old days, the modelers were the designers and knew what the final product should be for quality and function. Today it seems that China calls the shots and obviously doesn't know much about shooting beyond what the bullets should look like in order for the customers to buy them. And they aren't completely sure which way the bullet goes into the magazine. Sorry to throw in my rant, but we all have problems with today's retracts.

Duplicator41

My Feedback: (1)

I'm with Doug on thisone and concur with what he says. Even the old RhomAirs were better than Robart for the 90 degree rotators. I'm for the Sierra's. By the time you add struts to the Robarts, you've more than paid for the Sierras, and they are pretty bullet proof.

Cheers,

Aluminum Overcast

I agree, they could be better and there are a lot of complaints about the Robart retracts and the company in general. This is the case with pretty much all retracts though. As you probably know, there are threads entirely dedicated to specific retracts and their problems. Few threads like that are set up to sing the praises of any product and the folks who are happy rarely surf the web looking for praising a product. Usually you get guys looking to solve a problem they have so of corse you are going to read a lot of negative and less positive feedback. I used these because I had bought them long ago when they were pretty much the only ones available for the kit version of this model. None of the companies have very scale looking oleos so, I made my own (look back on this thread to see progress pics of that. These days there are more to choose from but none that I have seen at our field in 20+ years of hard flying and building have been much better either. That includes lados and all the generations electrics there of. So far, I have about 50 flights on my P40 and have been ever adding to the detail and featured of this model. It weights just under 14lb! Everything from my functional gill flaps to my working scratch built gear doors on the tail wheel is still functioning very well. Over this winter I have added more detail. here are a few pics.

Aluminum Overcast

More...

Aluminum Overcast

And some more....

handyman 220

My Feedback: (54)

Wish I had half your talent!! [8D]

Doug47

My Feedback: (24)

You must not get around much :
http://youtu.be/C_3A4ekuxPg
Mine work just as you've seen, first time, everytime,and through appx 1000 cycles and at least 5-600 non-manicured grass field take -offs and landings on my Hellcat and now appx 40 on the P-40 they have required the following maintenance :
1. None.
They have though required the following modifications :
1. None.
The method used to mount the struts is nothing short of brilliant.
At any pro scale event Sierra retracts make up a significant majority of each and every competitor. Not my opinion, look it up.
They are available with two different rakes. I like the more forward version because it makes nose-overs a non-event.
They are 240 dollars but look what you get and how long you'll use them on how many airplanes.
With all those positives anyone sniveling about the speed/sequencing or whatever when we're dealing with a very pretty airplane but one that is far,far away from being a master scale type aircraft shows themselves without a valid arguement and are grasping at straws,
Sierras are the standard ,and they have some very happy owners, more than any other brand. Doug

Aluminum Overcast

Curious + Persistence=YOU CAN DO IT!

Doug47

My Feedback: (24)

Aluminum Overcast you are a hell of a builder. That's a beautiful,beautiful job ! Doug

raptureboy

They are called Sierras, see aboveIjust bought some of the new RC lander electric retracts. all metal and pretty solid, but only a few crappy landings will tell.

radfordc

My Feedback: (14)

Sierras may not be perfect...but they're pretty darn close. But you do get to pay a premium price for them. I think the original poster may want "cheap" "perfect" gear?

Doug47

My Feedback: (24)

They look pretty solid raptureboy, I believe I'd be optimistic about those, spread the word after a few bouncy landings (one of my specialties, tragically ) and let us know what you think.
I sure agree about the premium price, but as radfordc said about the original poster wanting cheap and perfect gear, well, in this hobby that's a very rare thing.
One thing about the Sierras though thats pretty much unique to them : Used ones sell fast and for a large percentage of their original cost. I saw 3 pairs of them vanish at a big swap shop in about 15 minutes, used but straight, for around 75% of the new cost. Wow. Impressive.
I love seeing American companies thrive.. Robart has come out with a lot of high quality, standard setting products, ones I've bought and loved and will again. That's why when they fall on their sword it's such a drag, as in the 615's, any of their plastic framed gear, etc.
Their best 1.20/1.60 and below gear are the metal framed ones that are dead-on copies of the outstanding SpringAirs.(I've had nothing but super service out of SpringAirs, don't hestate to buy them. Wish they had rotaters)
I just read a review on the gorgeous Top Flite 1/4 scale FW-190 and they used Robarts big bird electric actuated gear, great looking product. It freakin' broke ! One leg wouldn't come down, can you imagine, first flight, about 2 grand in this plane? Robart had them do some hoop jumping reset of the actuating gear or something, then it was okay...for awhile, then it happened again. That gears like 600 bucks, I'd be rending garments and gnashing teeth over that one.While sure, nothings perfect, but that kind of BS is unacceptable.
That kind of stuff will take a company down,and I'd sure hate to see it.
Doug

raptureboy

I'm trying to post a video of them but it takes forever to download a video into photobucket. I once saw a guy slam his p-40 in on landing and ripped out the gear mounts but the sierra gearwere fine. He said it's not the first time he just puts them back in after the rebuild of the mounts. I don't mind paying for quality but when you consider how much the Robarts cost with the struts well the sierras make alot of sense. I like the robart gear for planes like my P-47 and P-51 but the 615's gear mechinisimand sheet metel frames are just to weak. I have a friend who is an excellentmachinest and I'm thinking of enlisting his help in seeing how the robarts could be modified. With the arfs being so cheap I think we have a problem paying morefor all things needed to completea project so we balk at paying more for landing gear than we did for the plane

montagma

My Feedback: (3)

Does anyone have this setup with the DLE 20?  If so, how did you route the throttle linkage around the fuel tank?  Pictures?

raptureboy

Yes Ihave it and it's great. Igot rid of the stock tank and went with a 10oz tank an also modified the tank mounting area. Go to post 394 for my pics on page 16

predman

My Feedback: (7)

I put a DLE 20 in mine, way enough power!!! I used the stock throttle linkedge that came with the kit and hooked it up the same way in the instructions with the exception of a ball link on my throttle arm. My flight battery is mounted on the firewall, my ignition and ignition battery behind the firewall inside the plane. I cut a door on the bottom of the firewall box in case i need to get back in there. I added no weight to balance. I used the stock dle muffler and did not have to cut any of that beloved shark mouth to get it all inside the cowel, just a small hole on the bottom for the exhaust to exit. Flies super fast at half throttle, and floats in for great landings.

cstevenpeterson

My Feedback: (21)

Just received my TF P-40 .60 today and I have to send it backfor a replacement. The amount and size of the wrinkles/ripples in the covering on the fuse, flaps and ailerons were so extensive that I could not even consider ironing them out. I recently purchased both the TF 60 Corsair and P-51. The Corsair was almost perfect and although the P-51 had a good number of wrinkles, I was able to iron them out with little effort - took about a week of evenings to do it though. Tower service is great. I already printed out the return label and dropped it off at my local Staples. I have not had time to read through this entire thread yet but I am wondering if this has been an issue with the P-40.

Steve

Aluminum Overcast

I don't recall too many problems overall with the covering but I suspect they did an initial production run when first introduced and probably have not done many after that, so, perhaps the one you got has sat for some time in a warehouse and had plenty of time to wrinkle up as the temp and humidity changed. This could of happened in transit too. Mine was one of the early ones (I ordered it when it was first announced) and was pretty good overall, not much in the way of wrinkles right out of the box. After some time had passed though it did wrinkle a bit...not bad though and it was easy to work them out. The flaps and the trailing edge of the wing directly over the flaps is another story. Keeping them true to each other is a well known problem but does not seem to affect it's flying characteristics much in my experience. You can get rid of this by laminating some very thin light ply or balsa on the flaps and wing area directly above if you want to really get it right but this will take a little work.

raptureboy

Well Iended up bagging the RC Lander gear, After all the work modifying the mounts to fit them one of them took a crap after 10 min of use so Isent them back to the vendor and he fixed it. Mounted them up agian and the other one took a crap. The vendor said I would have to sendd them back then he would send them to China and they would send me a new set, or I could get a refund less a 25 % restocking fee.WHAT! I told him I was already out $25 in shipping charges and they still don't work and now you want to charge me a restock fee? I told him Iexpect a full refund or I will complain to PayPal. He agreed to refund me completely. So I guess I go back to the 615's until Ican afford sierras.

LDM

My Feedback: (15)

Unfortunately I have a lot of experience with RC Lander gear sold under many brands . The China based manufacture does actually care about the desire to please the rc modeler but they are way off in there design .
1)The circuit board has in inherent tiny gap so when the retracts ride up and back over the board/switch it moves gradually into and out of that gap . This results in the "working and non working " problems . You really need zero tolerance in this area
2)The worm gear is very weak and again many have slop in the gear drive
3)in the Rotating versions the motor is not in the most ideal place leaving you two options , move them back in the retract mounts to clear the leading edge (not a great option or cutting into the leading edge (a worse option) .
4)Now I dont know if the FMS retracts would work as far as weight and load but the fms retracts are the best I have seen for the $69 price . The gear is all medal , nice struct (not the best struct ) but good .
So far on the 66" FMS corsair aprox 10 to 12 lbs , they are holding up great

raptureboy

http://s1303.photobucket.com/user/wa...8351e.mp4.htmlhere they are in action .You can here how they struggle to pick up the weight of robart struts and foam wheels.

Aluminum Overcast

Yeah that sucks...sorry you have to go through all that. My buddy Joe at our club has gone through all the electric retracts forums as well as had a few brands and versions of himself....they are a great idea and do work in a very scale manner but somehow none of them have proven to be reliable over time. I just don't think they are ready for prime time yet.

LDM

My Feedback: (15)

Actually in the smaller formate they work excellant (that is 8 lbs and under) .
I have some larger ones that also work great but all in the 10 to 12 lbs but not totating with the exception of the new ones from FMS.
I have Robart testing a pair for my 75" ESM corsair as we speak . I will start a separate thread when there ready and I can actually test them out .