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-   -   Hangar9 .60 P51 Which retracts? (http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-warbirds-warplanes-200/3058048-hangar9-60-p51-retracts.html)

270win 07-13-2005 02:25 PM

RE: Hangar9 .60 P51 Which retracts?
 
Yea, I've got a set of FTE gear for mine. They seem to be very stout.

270

kilroy52 07-13-2005 07:29 PM

RE: Hangar9 .60 P51 Which retracts?
 
I think I paid about $35.00 for the Robarts

The stock ones are not worth the price of shipping[sm=thumbdown.gif]

frikinstik 07-14-2005 04:04 AM

RE: Hangar9 .60 P51 Which retracts?
 
on my first test i had the factory set of retracts, but felt that after reading this forum and seeing them they were WEAK as hizzle, so i RE BUILT them using 3/16 music wire and they seem much, much better, and it cost me about 2 dollars so far. not braggin, just feedbackin.
anyway finally got a break in the weather the other day and after going over every inch of the retracts again and again, i went out to test them and get airborne. did numerous high speed and slow speed taxis on pavement and some grass, and they didnt fold at all. so after a little more nerve and a short prayer i throttled up, applied a little right rudder and held my breath. MISS AMERICA lifted effortlessly in no time and she accelarated with no problems. still a little timid i did a few passes with the gear down and to build up my nerve. after a few med speed passes and my Tigre sounding great i turned a high down wind and flipped the togle for the gear. up they went and instantly noted the clean feel without the gear. rolled out of base high enough to see they were locked and not moving. after a few more passes like this and checking the CG at half throttle, turned downwind and flipped the toggle to extend them. and low and behold they came down. did 2 passed to see if i had "2 in the green" and set up a nice descending base. turned final and eased back on the throttle. stuck a little rudder to get her in the "pipe" and eased her in. i was supprised that i could get her slowed down and the wing not washout to the side. she set down about a quarter way down and as i shut down the throttle to idle the tail gear met ground as she rolled in to the grass overrun.
\feedback, rebuilt retracts held with no wobble, and didnt collapse, during standard landing. CG according to book is a little tail heavy for the set up i chose. moved it to 4 1/2 inches to compensate. cowl screws provided loosened and needed to be reset. very touchy with JR4721 servos, had to adjust exponetial to 80 percent, but was really impressed with power to weight ratio and scale performance, and landing was much easier than i thought possible, at least on a calm wind day.
still lookin for a JRs791 servo and wondering what robart struts are used, ie what numbers are people using, and if larger wheels are used for people flying off grass or not.
thank kilroy and all, 270 your looks solid.

kilroy52 07-14-2005 01:43 PM

RE: Hangar9 .60 P51 Which retracts?
 
Frikinstik.
Good going[sm=thumbup.gif] Drilling out the stock retract mechanism from 5/32 to 3/16 (If that is what you did) will work. But keep a close watch on them. I did that to my AT-6 Texan, and when I landed a little hard one time, the plactic that holdes the strut cracked.

I learned that if I am not comeing greased on for a landing, GO AROUND.........

Retracts are a pain in the neck,Thay won't go up, Thay won't come dowm, Thay bend, Thay brake, I hate them........ "GOT TO HAVE UM":D

Don

shakes268 07-14-2005 02:31 PM

RE: Hangar9 .60 P51 Which retracts?
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: frikinstik

went to the field for the maiden flight and started taxing down the runway. after a couple of 180's my left gear decided it wanted to collapse. walked out to retrieve it thinking i snapped the servo arm or something, but after lifting the nose and recycling the gear they locked in both the retracted and extended position. removed the wing back at the bench and looked for anything out of the ordinary, but found nothing. i destroyed my only prop i had that day so back to the shop i went. re-checked all linkage and servo for anything wierd and again found nothing. hopefully this was a fluke and maybee they werent all the way locked when i started my taxi. just waiting for a nice day now to fly. anybody else have this problem?
Yep, had the exact same problem. First thoughts of it were that there initially wasn't enough throw so I went to a bigger wheel. Next time I took it out to the field, everything locked - servo cycling up and down, things seemed great. Started it up, sat it on the runway and started to taxi - wham, left gear collapses.

I went through this process at least 3 times. Finally, someone noticed how easily you could turn the servo by hand while everything was on. Hitec 75BB retract servo with plastic gears - the vibration from the 4 stroke was causing it to slip a tooth basically allowing the gear to slip and unlock when pressure was applied.

Went to a JR all metal gear retract servo, machined aluminum server arm wheel and no problems since.

270win 07-14-2005 04:35 PM

RE: Hangar9 .60 P51 Which retracts?
 
Great job on the first flight!!! Reading about it makes me want to get mine going even faster!! I agree with shakes that the right servo will make a difference in the strength of the gear. That's why I'm using the JR 791 retract servo. I think it's like 260 oz torque? Anyway, the servo won't be the weak link in the settup. Actually between the Tiano gear and the 791 I think the pushrod is probably the weak link now. Anyone upgrade theirs?

Anyway, congrats on the maiden[8D]!!

I'm ordering the Keleo exhaust tonight for mine. That YS .91 is gonna sound too sweet!!:D

270

270win 07-14-2005 05:22 PM

RE: Hangar9 .60 P51 Which retracts?
 
Keleo's site is down apparently.... [:o] maybe I'll order it tomorrow... I still have plenty to do before the exhaust needs to be here...
270

270win 07-14-2005 08:20 PM

RE: Hangar9 .60 P51 Which retracts?
 
The site's back up. I spoke to Kelvin... cool guy who loves warbirds too. They had an exhaust for my YS in stock so I placed the order a few minutes ago. Should be here fast. I need to start assembling!!

270

shakes268 07-14-2005 10:46 PM

RE: Hangar9 .60 P51 Which retracts?
 
Quote:

ORIGINAL: 270win

Great job on the first flight!!! Reading about it makes me want to get mine going even faster!! I agree with shakes that the right servo will make a difference in the strength of the gear. That's why I'm using the JR 791 retract servo. I think it's like 260 oz torque? Anyway, the servo won't be the weak link in the settup. Actually between the Tiano gear and the 791 I think the pushrod is probably the weak link now. Anyone upgrade theirs?

Anyway, congrats on the maiden[8D]!!

I'm ordering the Keleo exhaust tonight for mine. That YS .91 is gonna sound too sweet!!:D

270

That's the servo I have now and it works so much better. I have the FTE retracts as well on mine...so this the list of what I'm using:

JR 791 retract servo
FTE retracts
Upgraded to 4-40 pushrods
4-40 pushrods with Dubro HD ez connectors (using the bottom metal permanent clip)
machined aluminum servo wheel
3/16" titanium struts from central hobbies

my gear right now are as stable as a fixed gear airplane :)
I also have the Keleo exhaust for my Saito 100 on the airplane. LOVE that exhaust!!!

As far as how it flies - flies incredibly well! Good slow speed handling, fast when it needs to be and so stable it feels like it could just plow through anything that gets in its way. It doesn't feel as light as it is to me - feels heavier which adds to the stability feeling I guess. VERY easy to fly.

frikinstik 07-15-2005 01:59 AM

RE: Hangar9 .60 P51 Which retracts?
 
Man i wish i could get a JR 791 servo. checked everywhere around me and nothing yet. on back order waiting. plan on up grading to the aluminum servo with that one. i did upgrade the pushrods to 5/32 rigid type and they are much better, but i HAD to do it since i was a lost puppy before coming to this site and cut the originals too short. so i guess that was a good choice when i did it. cant say enough about this site.
so far i have greased every landing, but will check for cracks in the pivot hinge if i prang it on landing. the good thing is, as mentioned above, its so easy to grease landing with this plane. went back out to the field today. overcast, 5-10 knots of head wind, cool, and pleasant. I adjusted my CG to 4 1/2 and thought i was golden. NOT. on initial roll down the runway it almost nosed over once i applied power. took weight out to get my CG at 4 5/8 " and tried it again. couldnt believe the difference and 1/8 made but now its perfectly solid in level flight at half trottle and sticks centered. did my first roll today, started level, ended level. SMOOTH all the way through. looped it too, again smooth in, on top tracked perfectly, and screamed out the bottom effertlessly. flew for another 10 min cycling the gear over and over again, and they worked. came in greased the landing on the mains, two clicks above idle, pulled the rest back on the trottle and the rear wheel touched. after a few S turns to blead off speed i noticed i had about 200 feet of runway left. originally i thought that it would be a squirel on the ground but it tracks straight down the runway when taxiing. went back and topped off the tank, checked the gear, and taxied back out. thought i would apply power and hold up elevator to get speed before letting the rear come up prior to rotating. WOW. she lifted right off the ground 30 degrees nose up and rolling to the left. counter corrected and made my climbout to a safe altitude before checking my pants. i think my roll was about 1 foot before i got airborne. looked really cool. kept it at about half throttle and went into a couple cubans and then into some emelmans. the stability in both were rock solid. after about 10 more mins came in for another smooth landing.
got back to the pits and checked everything over. noticed that screws holding the cowl on were being vibrated loose and that was about it. i did ajust my exponential to limit the amount of imputs i was giving. very touchy if you are not used to bieng smooth. still dont have 100 percent faith in the engine yet but its getting there. checked my gear and everything was still in order, so i went back out 2 more times before i packed up.
sorry if i rambled too much.
still looking for a JR 791, and what type of Robarts fit.

Frik

270win 07-15-2005 06:06 AM

RE: Hangar9 .60 P51 Which retracts?
 
Man you guys are killing me!! I've got to get my plane done!!!!:) All I need to do now is get the 4-40 rods. I have to go to my LHS to get more covering materials.... Once the basic covering is done I'll be finishing quickly... Maybe I'll glass the wing center section this morning before leaving for the HS.

270

shakes268 07-15-2005 06:55 AM

RE: Hangar9 .60 P51 Which retracts?
 
Frik, what are your throws set at? I'm not using the factory throws and its as smooth as can be with 25% expo. Granted on low rates my roll rate is a little slow and I have not yet flown it on high rates yet (which again, are not factory). I set my throws according to one of the posts regarding the Marie version (I have the Miss A).

Elevator 9/16

Ailerons High 3/8 up 5/16 down
Low 5/16 up 1/4 down

Rudder Little over 1" each way seems like plenty.

frikinstik 07-16-2005 02:59 AM

RE: Hangar9 .60 P51 Which retracts?
 
throws could be my problem. had them adjusted by the book. elevator was set originally at 1 and a 16th but backed it down to around 9/16 now and much better. i got 4721 servos and they are lickity split and supper sensative so i got my expo set at around 50 percent and its real smooth in the middle now. tired of messing with the stocks so now im back in the shop installing robarts, just got to do some research on HOW to set them up. got a pretty good idea using this forum. i think i get the struts, and pivot mechanisms, but how to connect them draws a blank right now. do you utilized 3 1/6 music wire from the pivot mechs and into the struts then solder them into place? still looking for a JR 791.
back in for upgrades
Frik

frikinstik 07-16-2005 03:48 AM

RE: Hangar9 .60 P51 Which retracts?
 
spent the last hour or so looking at Robart robo struts, Frank tiano retracts and im still lost at the options. the FTE retracts said that they were made for the 150 size p51 or t-6, but is that what everyone is using in this forum that has FTE's?
i want mechanicals and am leaning towards robart but there are so many options. i dont know what type will drop right in with minimal hacking of the wing or what type of robostruts (really like them) i should be looking at. am still at a loss on what OLEO struts are or where to look for them but i will keep looking. any specs would be appreciated on getting the right mechanical set. off to the retract web site i havent been to yet.

270win 07-16-2005 06:17 AM

RE: Hangar9 .60 P51 Which retracts?
 
The FTE mechanicals drop right in with minimal dremel surgery.... like 1 minutes per retract. They're expensive though. I haven't used the Robarts so I wouldn't be much help there....

The oleo is basically the shock absorber.

270

Richard L. 07-16-2005 09:35 AM

RE: Hangar9 .60 P51 Which retracts?
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: frikinstik

am still at a loss on what OLEO struts are or where to look for them
Pics of my oleo struts:

http://www.warbirdobsession.com/h9_mustang/pic08.jpg

http://www.warbirdobsession.com/h9_mustang/pic09.jpg

frikinstik 07-16-2005 08:14 PM

RE: Hangar9 .60 P51 Which retracts?
 
ok, FTE's website has the retracts and oleo struts? on their site they have a set for a P51 but they say its for the 150 SIZE P51, will these work in the .60 size?
gettin closer

270win 07-16-2005 10:14 PM

RE: Hangar9 .60 P51 Which retracts?
 
You're right frikinstik. They have changed their website recently. I'd shoot them an e-mail. Frank will get back to you. I'm sure the 150 size is bigger.... It might just be a misprint.

270

stangevil29 07-16-2005 11:57 PM

RE: Hangar9 .60 P51 Which retracts?
 
TO ALL,
I was reading through this entire thread and perhaps I missed but, can oleo struts be attached to mechanical units? I would expect a need for the big 270 in/oz servo to pull them up or am I incorrect? I have the world models Petie 2nd, I havent had any real problems with the stock retracts but, I have seen just to many greased landings on various stock retracts that collapse. I didnt want to pour a whole lot more money into a set of air gear but, I love the give of the oleo struts on the individuals that have them. Plus, they look so much better than the flimsy looking wire. Any help would be great. Thanks in advance.
Stangevil29

Richard L. 07-17-2005 12:15 AM

RE: Hangar9 .60 P51 Which retracts?
 
Yes, the oleo struts can be attached to mechanical retracts. All you need is replace each wire strut with a short piece of music wire that stick out around 5/8" for the oleo to grab onto. You would need to cut the oleo strut to proper lengh and drill and tap two holes on the side of the oleo for a pair of set screws. Since the oleos are heavier than stock wire struts, a stronger retract servo would be needed to bring the gear up.

Richard L. 07-17-2005 12:18 AM

RE: Hangar9 .60 P51 Which retracts?
 
Here is a short tutorial on how to install oleo struts onto mechanical retracts: [link]http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_1921112/anchors_1926698/mpage_1/key_/anchor/tm.htm[/link]

270win 07-17-2005 04:43 PM

RE: Hangar9 .60 P51 Which retracts?
 
Hmmmm. I hadn't thought about adding the struts to mine.....

Richard,
Are those from Robart? Which model #?

I went to the LHS yesterday to get some more silver worldtex covering and THEY'RE OUT!!:( That means they'll order it Monday but it won't be here till Friday.... And I'll be gone on vacation next week so looks like I'll have to work on something else this week. Maybe I'll get the wing finished and completely trimmed out. I could mount the engine mount and get the tank installed.... Arrrgh! I'm really wanting to get this plane flying.... I guess if I had done it to factory specs it would be. I'm sure it'll be worth the delay when it's finished.

I've decided on a color scheme. Look's like "Old Crow" will be the mustang I'll try to copy. We'll see how it goes.


frikinstik 07-18-2005 01:39 AM

RE: Hangar9 .60 P51 Which retracts?
 
went flying again today on the factory retracts, no problems YET. finally found and ordered a JR791 for the preparation of getting custom retracts. i know i will need the extra torque to work the customs. had the privlige of flying with another guy who had the same plane, in warbird colors with a saito 100 in it. very cool to have two in the sky in formation doing straffing runs. didnt race though, the Tigre had no problem keeping up at half throttle. did do a low pass at 3/4 throttle ten feet off the deck and she was super stable. talked to him about his retracts and low and behold he had the stock ones too. even the original struts. he liked the stability of the struts i made and asked where i heard about them and stuff. RC universe of course. anyway this is his second, some new pilot collided with his first, and he said that he used both with the stock retracts, though he did go through sets of struts.
we both did numerous touch and go and landed without incident. still searching for the mechanicals, leaning towards FTE if they have them, and oleo struts. noticed from the PIC above that the oleo have the wheel located on the outboard side. are those straight, inset, or outset when odering them? and what size wheels are those?
did some mods on mine to. got robart scale wheels 3 1/4", aluminum servo arm and in preparation of getting new struts and mechanicals put the plastic wheel wells on with small screws (11 each side) for future removal.
8 flights and 4 tanks and having a blast.

Richard L. 07-18-2005 02:04 AM

RE: Hangar9 .60 P51 Which retracts?
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: 270win

Richard,
Are those from Robart? Which model #?

I don't remember the model #, but those are Robart 7/16" diameter offset RoboStruts, along with 3 1/2" diameter H9 wheels. Straight RoboStruts would work also, as well as 3/8" diameter RoboStruts, which should be lighter than what I'm using. However, I believe the 3/8" struts can only handle up to 3 1/4" wheels.

270win 07-18-2005 06:44 AM

RE: Hangar9 .60 P51 Which retracts?
 
Thanks Richard. They must be 663L & 663R 440 series robostruts. They're $54.00 each from Robart. Now I've gotta have em'![8D]

I might as well order them since I'm getting delayed by a couple of weeks due to schedule.

Frikinstik-
I'm really gled to hear about your initial experiences with the P51. It makes me want to fly mine even more... Do you have any pics?

270


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