Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary
 

For all of the 'cat fans out there who have been following along on our Bearcat progress, next on the board goes the Ziroli Hellcat. As it's a bird I'm particularly fond of, and as the owner (don't blush Lynn ;)) is such a fantastic guy to have us on board with him, I can't wait to put some glue to wood. This one will not be holding much back by way of detail and I really hope that doing a nice builder's thread for it here will be as beneficial and fun as the others have been.

As the Bearcats are now free of a building board, it would be a shame not to settle in to the lay of the land a little by not putting the plans down and getting the lay of the land a bit before doing any building. Thanks to Lynn and friends for setting up design parameters. You guys should really like what you see happening on the thread. I know guys aren't afraid to speak up (I can almost hear the words "wash-IN" still in my sleep Todd)

Keep watching. Lots to follow here.

Mike

RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary
 

Mike,
Are you doing a built up fuse or the fiberglass fuse option?

RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary
 

wash-in, who would have said that.:D
look forward to following this Mike. I really want to jump
on mine, but need to finish the other 2 big birds first [:@]

RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary
 

All wood build for this one, another fantastic quality kit from Mace Gill at the Aeroplane Works. Two big thumbs up looking at the kit[sm=thumbup.gif][sm=thumbup.gif] . Man, Todd, I thought you would take the high road from the "I can't recall" defense:D. It's my goal to tempt you into doing a sneak-a-build on yours at the same time.[8D] Your SisT primer tunes should arrive shortly. Don't let your family hear you listening.[X(]. It'll be a few days on the pics while I'm focusing on Bearcat tasks. No short shrifting of attention allowed, but know that the type of tasks remaining on the Bears' will allow for creation time of the Hellcat during some stages like glassing and such, so I want to keep the efficiency running high.

Mike

RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary
 

ya, while I would love to jump on the Hellcat now, I will wait.
once the ZP47, and Bates P40 are done, I will tackle the SisT FW.

then onto the Hellcat. By that time, I will be ready to start whittling wood
again :D

RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary
 

Motivational pic... :D

Ziroli Hellcat, Brison 5.8 24-12 3 blade Mejlik flies it very well. All wood plane.
{With a 24 - 12 2 blade is WAY fast. }

Hey, it's just a "few" sticks. lol This AC was 90% built by Sean Mchale ( great guy ! ) of PA, sold to me, then finished up and reworked by me. Even at 44 lbs it flies very well.

My friend has a FG fuse Hellcat and his weight is 6 lbs less. He uses a Q 100 and it is a great combo as well. Plan on lots of nose weight. try and keep the tail light if at all possible.

Will watch your build with interest.. Have fun !

RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary
 

Mike,

What fantastic timing! I just ordered a Z Hellcat shortkit from Jesse at LaserLizard and I've been trying to pick up all the info I can get on this bird. Yours will be a "must follow" series of posts. I'm looking forward to it BIG TIME!

Al

RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary
 

glad that Hellcat from Sean is finally flying. I have known Sean for a long time. Sad to
see him sell it, but glad he did and she is flying as she should be

RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary
 

No shortage of interest in getting going on it, especially with the pics above. I've seen Sean's build of the plane from his own pics and am impressed by it. He knows what he's doing and it shows. I see you're in Michigan too. I'm planning on invading Michigan this spring with the German planes so let's look each other up and fly some combat come warmer weather.

Rrudy, there's some kind of cosmic intervention thing going on evidently with the Spitfire and now the Hellcat too for us. Hope things have gone well with prepping the Spitfire. Should be a good season for you this spring! Let us know what you think of the L.L. kit when you get it. I suspect we'll have a good thread when we're through for reference purposes.

RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary
 

Finally got a start...not much, but at least a first part of creation.:). I was happy that the stab ribs had the little knock offs on them to build the stab flat on the board with (lower spar isn't flat on the plans when building).

RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary
 

Wulf,

Thank you so much for the kind words. Keep us updates on the project!

Mace Gill
The Aeroplane Works
http://www.theaeroplaneworks.com

RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary
 

Wulf, I am looking forward to your build here. I talked to Lynn about it and he is pumped also. I cant wait to see it in person cause I know Lynn wil be showing it off. How is your D9 build going?

RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary
 

Ram, Hey great! Small world. Didn't know you guys were hooked up already. Makes me real happy to know you're with us on it :). I've been real excited about the build already. The plane is such a great one to really scale out as there's just so much going on on the surface with the rivets and lines and cowl and canopy, etc. Seeing all the gear that's going into it got me going a bit more, as I can sort of envision things a bit better about the whole thing and how beautifully it will work mechanically as well. Looks like a great opportunity for us to get the Dora's together with the Hellcat this summer. After we're done painting all these things we'll get them all lined up in a circle in my driveway and take a shot.....should be about a dozen pretty awesome warbirds in there with all of our efforts of the last couple years put in there with them...right now the shot should include Hellcat, Bearcat, IMP Dora, 2 Holman FW A's, Airwold FW, TF GS F4U, Bates P40, 1/5 Spit, 1/6 ME109, 1/6 FW A model, Don Smith ME110. Should be neat. All but the Spit and the P40 and 109 need paint. Big spring painting, but should be much simplified by the similarity of many colors on the birds we're doing. The detailing is the working part, so that's gonna take lots of time...Hence the excitement to get things to an airframe stage like the rest.


Mace, no problem on the kudos. Love pumping up a good quality product like this. The Bearcats went together great.

RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary
 

Forgot to add the pic. This is the completed, but unsanded horiz. stab of the Hellcat up next to the Bearcat stab. With the tips the Hellcat's is slightly bigger which makes sense since so was the real planes. Interesting to note the swept grain (that's in the instructions) on the Hellcat's vs. the grain on the Bearcats which is more normally sheeted. Fit was perfect for the ribs and spars.

RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary
 

Hey!

It great to see my model taking shape after all the shopping for PARTS! You all should have seen the boxes I shipped to Wulf; everything but the kitchen sink (that's probably in those boxes somewhere too....)

Howdy Ram, I didn't know you cared;) Maybe I'll have the Meister Dora put together for the Wulf's Great Gathering. Always happy to help out.

Thanks for all the kind words guys. And the good work too, Wulf. I hope all of you enjoy the thread as much as I will.

regards,
langerl

RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary
 

Speaking of equipment.. what engine are you planning ?:D

RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary
 

Brison 6.4 engine, all Hitec servos with thought to what should go where, all Airwild h.d. wiring and Cermark switches, aluminum wheels, UP air valve, Dynamic Balsa cockpit kit (nice), air operated slide canopy, Robart gear, BD airline, BVM c/f reinforcement to beefed up retract area, heavier tank box for engine mounting purposes, reinforced tail with c/f, etc. etc. Probably not much left to chance anywhere.

RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary
 

Dear diary,

I am sitting here lonely this evening listening to my CD of
Der Reich's music. its making me think of the time I get to
start my Hellcat thread. It is too far away to build so soon.

I guess I will just goose step out to the garage and work on
the jug:D

RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary
 

LOL :D Generally difficult to find oneself lonely while building Todd. I am most certain that you have found yourself saying "holy man, I've been concentrating on this xxxx for about how long now?!?!" as you look at the clock and realize how much time you've spent completely oblivious to what's going on beyond the end of your fingers. Such as the music is, you understand more completely the whole truth of your earlier statement of fact.....too much time on my hands!:D. Keep going, I'm a watcher :D. I'll be building this one knowing that it has to pass your inspection! Tough crowd. Tough crowd.:eek:.

RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary
 

In an earlier post I mentioned that I had ordered the Laser Lizard short kit of the Z Hellcat. Well, today it arrived! The laser cutting is first rate with the parts just dropping out from the sheets. Fortunately, each part is clearly marked as are the reference lines for part alignment and firewall centerline. I previously purchased a Z Stuka short kit from Jesse and my satisfaction with that offering is what led me to get the Hellcat from him, too. I am more than pleased with Jesse's work and his short kits are available for a modest price.

We are so fortunate to have so many talanted and dedicated kit cutters available to us. Mace's work is excellent and if I wanted to get a full kit, his would be at the top of my very short list. This is a win-win situation for all of us! We can chose to do as much or as little of the work and leave the rest to the professionals. Frankly, I love cutting out the parts myself but when I add in the time and materials, it's hard to beat some of the commercial offerings.

Okay, Mike. Back over to you. Let's see your bird come to life!

Al

RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary
 

Waiting on the wood stock needed to proceed and after that, it should be pretty seamless to the finish...order's on it's way now.

RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary
 

Plans are on the table! Went to start the first wing construction yesterday and got snagged on the very first part! Hopefully no harbinger of the build to come, but I suspect not.[8D]


Lynn and I talked extensively (mostly cause I'm a flip-flopper--thanks for the patience Lynn) about which way to go..one piece or panels. As storage no issue, decided one piece, then as I got the kit parts together and on the plans realized that about every intention of the kit parts and the builder's manual is dedicated to the panels, so I looked over the tube insert design real well, and found many more advantages to the design as it's pretty bulletproof it appears, the tube inserting into the thick maple block at it's base and routed through all the ply inner ribs. It's not going to go anywhere. Further, I thought of my beloved, or dxxxed, Spit wing and it's center section destruction causing a whole new wing to be built and said, "maybe panels are in fact the right way"......so panels it is! The wing can be removed as one piece anyway, so it seems almost counter-intuitive now to join them, especially as the tube is like a weapon in the kit box! If it doesn't get used here, I've had some septic issues I'll save it for in the backyard....it's like that:D.

That done....finally a bit of wing later while the glue is drying on the Bears.

Mike

RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary
 

I have the fiberglass fuse and it is nice to take the panels off and leave her on the mains.Good luck its looking good already and the Bearcats too.

Todd

RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary
 

Tood
Good looking Cat I like the TEETH
Todd
What engine are you running in your hellcat and are you happy with the engine, do you know anyone else who has a Z hellcat and what engine are they running
I have the fiberglass fuse and will be starting on the wing soon
Thanks
Lawrence Harville
Hurst texas near Dallas-

Here is a picture of my now departed 80 in Cat

RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary
 

Todd and Lawrence, Excellent looking birds! Lawrence, funny you put that picture up, as it's one of the ones we looked over real good in the beginning to scout out schemes and detail levels, and said, like that one! Since, have been evaluating benefits of different color schemes and setups. Not a permanent decision yet.

I got the first parts laid out on the board yesterday for the wing center section and had to do some fiddling with the rib slots to get them tight and fitting properly, but minimal again. There will be a bunch of reinforcement done to the the retract bays which I got a start on last night and will continue today. I'll get some pics up so you guys can check out the techniques involved. Should be a nice setup in there.

One thing of note is that the kit seems a little more complete than the Bearcats did in that there's a builder's manual and wood is included for some items that it wasn't included for in the Bearcat kits, like shear webs, and servo mount wood. We'll see how much sheeting is in there for the planking and wing sheeting jobs. Both of the previous kits were short by enough to have to go out and get extra. I'm ready for however it works out with lots of extra wood on hand[8D] again now.

I love how the wing ribs are already drilled for the wires and air lines on this one! Can keep the Forstner bits in the case this time.;).

RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary
 

Hellcat56,
In mine I have a G-62 and it is ok but I am running a scale exhaust system and not sure if it is hurting me any on power.The sound it has is great and looks really scale like on a low pass.I had Dynamic Balsa cut the wing for me but all I used was the outer panels and I built up the section on the center of the fuse.The only 2 things I really did different from the plans was I made the canopy removeabel to do all the installation through plus it helps with the removabel firewall. I got another wing tube and let both of them extend into the fuse to a mounting plate and using a 1/4 20 bolt to hold the in place. Good luck

Todd

RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary
 

Todd, got some pics of the scale exhaust and wing connection your talking about? I love the foam wing panels. After working through a foam wing on my IMP Dora, I'm sold on the foam concept as light and strong for my future wings. I took my Spitfire wing templates to Brian at Dbalsa to get a foam wing cut for it, but don't have it yet. I think the wing will be lighter and stronger and better designed that the original one. The Dora wing has to be half the weight of the Ziroli Bearcat wing in a similar state and they're alot closer in area than in weight. What's the all up weight of your plane Todd?

RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary
 

Mine came in about 32 pounds.Hope yours flies as good as mine you will have a blast..Keep us post on your progress with it and the Bearcats..Todd

RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary
 

Not mine Todd, but it doesn't change my expectation of great flight success. I hadn't planned on the surrogate parenting of these planes while they're being built having the sort of pull they do to build one of my own like them! These won't be my last Ziroli builds. I've had the Stuka plans for a long time now, and they're literally screaming at me from the tube now. Everything's been fantastic for all the builds, great customer service and products. Really makes the experience worth the effort. I had held off the Stuka thinking, gee, I should wait, because that's a big plane/project etc.. It looks easy now.:D.....well almost. The Stuka would be one of the German planes not yet in the stable for Chuck and I which seems kind of ridiculous in the midst of all the other ones there already.

RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary
 

This is for everyone who has built or flown a Z hellcat
What engine do you use?????????????????
Todd
I have been told the G 62 is not enough --but now you are changing my mind
did you have to add a lot of nose weight with the 62??????????
32 pounds on a G 62 would seem marginal was it??????????????
Thanks
Lawrence

RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary
 

At the very least, the plane will need the heaviest motor you can find up there. Tendency for tail-heaviness as I can see it on the plans and the layout of the plane will be greater than that of the Bearcat I think as the Bearcat is a really short plane altogether, so the short nose coupled with the short tail maybe will help to counterbalance somewhat. The Hellcat has more going on in the back and the nose is similar in setup to the Bearcat, so I like the thoughts on this one.....Brison 6.4 twin mounted at an angle.

Here's a shot of the center section layup with nothing glued..

RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary
 

I've got an American Eagles Bearcat that I would like to trade for a Ziroli (or American Eagles) Hellcat (or Corsair, or Skyraider).

Nothing has been started, has the canopy, glass fuse, cowl, belly pan, and wing fairings, along with foam core flying surfaces, and of course plans and instructions.

Got it on trade... I've got a Ziroli Bearcat about 75 percent framed, and since the wing is one piece, shipping cost prevents me from selling it and quick building the American Eagles.

RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary
 

Hi Wulf!
I'm enjoying your progress so far..... Still waiting for an answer from you on the new length Air Wild servo leads for the panel wings. I still can't make up my mind on the paint scheme; RN or USN.:eek: Got any druthers? I just picked up the Squadron Signal Fleet Air Arm pub. Seems to have the exact scheme Nick Z Jr. put together for his '94 model. Looks interesting.....

From the looks of the mock up center section I see a wheel mount rail. Did you cut out the modified reinforcements yet or is that the stock rail?

Keep up the good work.

Enjoy.

P.S. I haven't seen much progress on Chuckswim's site. It seems to have stopped at the Empinage. You been in contact with him recently? He was installing a Brison 6.4 in the Bearcat. I'm curious how he's progressing.

regards,
langerl

RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary
 

Sorry about the measurements Lynn, I'll get them to you directly here tonight.

I'm cutting and sanding and mounting the reinforcement blocks today. I got one done, three to go. I used hardwood instead of the 1/2" ply thinking threads would work better in the hardwood vs. the ply. Looks like I'll have to sand some off of the outboard L-bracket to get it to slide in between 4B and the outboard rib, but I've not held it up there to see yet. I'm inlined to mount them and just use a little jig I have to drill them out rather than try to align them on the press before sanding the top to the airfoil shape. Should be simple enough to use a centering tool and get the holes straight as access in unhindered. What's in the pic is just the prelim trial of an unsanded block making sure it matches with plans. Should look nice and tidy when it's all together. Doing some boring laminations and stuff today...nothing good for pics yet.

RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary
 

This ought to do the job on the retracts. Pretty bulletproof on the first two. Clamped 'em overnight and was careful to remove any glue as I just hate those little runs and messes that alway seem to inhibit something in there[>:]. Second set today for outboard ribs. Hardwood wears out sandpaper and sawblades quick.[:o].

Still more with the c/f L-brackets on the outboard sides.

RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary
 

Almost forgot Lynn...:eek:. Looks like the extensions work out to 2 24" and 2 18" for the ailerons which leaves a little extra for working with at the center joint with the servo lead itself on there. Tough to really tell, but I think this is plenty. You know I've got a home for the ones already here should you happen to...ahem....not need them for any reason ;).

Mike

RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary
 

OK! I'll order the servo extensions as soon as possible from Air Wild. Anything else you can think of while I'm at it?

The hardwood gear rails look STRONG. :) Are you having any problems executing the mods we drafted (aside from the c/f L brackets)? I'll be very interested in your technique for dead plumb drilling and tapping the bolt holes in the rails ! Sounds like quite a challenge.

Let me know if there's anything else I can get from Air Wild....

Good luck and happy building.

regards,
langerl

RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary
 

Thanks,

I think we've got it covered Lynn. Yes, they do look strong, Herculean in fact. I figured out I can totally cheat on the retract holes with the Robart hinge point drill jig....that thing is one of the BEST tools for 5 bucks out there. I've liberated it before for some little tasks outside of it's assigned hinge point duties with good effect, probably none as good as this one though. With a center punch we're all good I think. Part of the reason for using the hardwood was that I thought it would give a little better thread bite. The holes through the hardwood for the lines were no easy drill with the Forstner bit though....patience there...I think they're like 7/8" in diameter, and I figured to make them the same size as the ones in the ribs. Doing the rest of the reinforcements tonight on the outboard ribs and will get to the c/f rails after. No real pushing on this part as it's all clamp and wait type processes on the stronger glues used in these areas.

RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary
 

Center section well on it's way now. Retract blocks and mounts complete and glued in. Used the Hysol in spots necessary for it with good effect. My first time using this stuff, I do like it when its set, which the process of is a little different than normal epoxy it seems. First, much thicker, no runs, which is nice. Overall bond time is longer than epoxy with setup much more gradual and the stuff seems to undergo a slight color change it appears (or it just dries without the same sheen as when wet). Strength is great. My one complaint is that it is a little difficult to make nice clean applications with, due to how thick it is, as I like nice clean epoxy joints without stuff running all over (this doesn't) and with the ability to put it right where it's needed. But I got a little better applying as I'm using now as I'm learning how to apply it and what to use for the various spots it goes in....a little learning curve, but it works great on the c/f stuff following BVM's directions on putting these things on.

Retract area looks tough huh Lynn? Short of 1/2" aircraft ply for the outboard parts on the c/f braces, and having used the hardwood on the inside, I took the liberty of swapping it out to some 1/2" pine that I had on hand. Seems about the same for toughness and weight I think, so hope that's alright with you. You can see from the pics though that it's pretty much bulletproof. Still the thin c/f on top before sheeting too to shore things up nicely. Really going to give some good bite to the top sheeting with the broad surface to glue to. Chuck and I both think that the 1/4" nylons are too wide for the setup though, as it we don't think it leaves enough wood (1/2" rails) to put them into, and, maybe more importantly, the holes in the retracts themselves and the bolt heads might be too big for the width of the mount bracket. As there's six of them in there, we think that 10-32 nylons are a better choice and would still give you lots of strength with ability to make sure there's enough material on the retracts and the blocks themselves. I'll do some looking and checking and if the 1/4's don't seem like a problem on the retracts themselves they'll probably work, as one of the reasons for using the hardwood was to provide some better material to thread into for the bolts, so I'll do more research and keep posting on this little tidbit. Just some thoughts before the setup starts.

RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary
 

Hi Mike,
Re 1/4" vs. 10-32 nylon. Since I can't really SEE what the issue is, you may use your discretion as to which bolt size to use. Come to think of it, when I was imagineering the gear mounts, I do recall the holes in the gear as a bit too small for 1/4". I suspect 6 x 10-32 bolts should be strong enough for the mains.
The look of the model center section is very Grumman - massively strong looking. As you say, I don't think the gear mount rails will ever fail; now its more likely I'll tear a wing rib out of the main spar before that happens.:D I keep replaying in my mind the WWII shot of the F6F landing on the carrier...smashing into the island and the only thing left of the airplane after the accident is the intact fuse from just aft of the cockpit to the cowl and engine. When the wreck stops skidding on the deck, the pilot just gets out and walks away. No big deal... "A bit of the old El..." if you know the reference. The model looks the same way.
Still mulling over the paint scheme. Maybe I'll talk to Nick Jr. and see what he says.
The Air World servo leads have been ordered. You should see them in about a week or so.
Keep up the good work!

regards,
Lynn