RE: The complete YELLOW AIRCRAFT SPITFIRE thread.
 

Every thing worked out quite well from yesterday. The test piece and tail bottom sanded up nice and so today the top got its coat and the test got a mist of paint. Of course there is some imperfections and evedence of weave here and there but it is more than good enough for me. If I stuff around too long I will never get this model finished and I still have to prime for panel lines so this will cover even more. I used a combination of block sanding and palm sanding to get to the bottom of some low spots inbetween the ribs. No aircraft had perfectly flat surfaces.:)

Today I also ran my 3W 55i engine after mixing fuel at 32:1 just to see if it did actually run. Not having a muffler for it yet the run time was short but sweet. I have read the running instructions for the engine a few times and smiled when reading "Do not flick propeller over by hand, use rubber stick" Well my ZDZ twin has always behaved like a lady and not even looked like biting me so I had no problem in doning two gloves one over the other and start flicking the 3W. Well, man,, what a wrapp over the knuckle I got one time when it fired!!![:@]:( I was almost too afraid to take off the gloves but after a few seconds I knew I was ok. I dont bruse easily. But I got a bruse. I ended up sacraficing a bit of block balsa to do the job of turning it over. A good lesson learned with no harm. At least I had two gloves on.:eek:

Getting ready to start working on the fuselage I wanted to test some bonding of materials so cleaned, sanded and cleaned again with acetone the inside of the turtle deck I have cut off my Spitfire. I wanted to simulate the type of timber and glass bonds I may use to fit out the interior. Results later.

The other day I cut the goggles off my OaG pilot so I can make and fit a set of British Mk8 examples. I used some foam and left over resin from my covering and experementing to fill in the hole. Hope it takes.

Time to get ready for flying tomorrow.

Brad

RE: The complete YELLOW AIRCRAFT SPITFIRE thread.
 

Revisiting the cockpit area I finalised the shape of the instrument panel bulkhead. I cut some paper 'fingers' and put the roughed out former in place I had made a couple of weeks ago. I taped the fingers in position so they touched the inside of the fuselage where there were gaps. I also extended into the wing fairing to add some strength to that area. I made a decision to work on the former for the front of the cockpit so I can look at the radio gear/fuel tank plate that will sit in front of it and be removable to allow maintenance.

Brad

RE: The complete YELLOW AIRCRAFT SPITFIRE thread.
 

After waiting a good few hours the test pieces were well stuck to the inside of the scrap fuselage top. After a couple of days I attempted to remove each of them by hand. From left to right, results;
1/ Considerable force needed to get any movement from piece, thought side of fuz was going to start breaking before it let go and slowly peeled off. Bonded the whole way.
2/ Well it is still there. Couldnt budge it by hand. Will try pliers later.
3/ (Thin bit of ply glued behind unmovable 2nd piece) Good adhesion for the amount of surface area. Tore ply side out.
4/ Bottom of ply still in place. Ply delaminated with some force.
5/ Glass to glass bond. As you can see it is still there and I actually ripped the test piece trying to remove it. It didnt even look like moving.
6/ Balsa block, just ripped the sides of the balsa.
7/ Long hardwood block, broke of pretty easily but did bend glass side first. Had some leverage with length.
8/ Dowel, broke right off. Tiny surface area.
9/ This is very interesting as it is still there and you can see the stress damage to the fuz side that happened while trying to remove it.
This section of the fuz side had no cleaning or sanding before test bit was glued on. Now it might have a little bit more surface area than the others but,,,,, it ain't com'in off Man!!! What about waxy residue and contaminents?
I dont quite know what to make of this but I will be cleaning, sanding with some 120 grit and cleaning again with acetone before fixing anything to the inside of the fuselage be it ply glass sheet or plastic etc.

Here is the test piece, and a motovational mock-up pic (for me)

Cheers

Brad

RE: The complete YELLOW AIRCRAFT SPITFIRE thread.
 

Brad,

You didn't mention what adhesive or adhesives you were using. That bit of detail would seam to be as important as the cleaning method on the fiberglass. Please mention it. Leo

RE: The complete YELLOW AIRCRAFT SPITFIRE thread.
 

Oops,,, sorry Guys for assuming you knew I was talking about West Systems resin. I had done a search and read that it went onto Polyester glass very well (but not the other way around) so I wanted to try it on my fuselage. So that is it,,, 105 resin with the 206 hardner.

NOW,,,, I have sanded the top half of the horizontal stab and finished it to primer stage. Weighing my built up one and the kit supplied one revieled quite a weight saving. Mine has the 'elevator caps' added as well. the kit one still needs them added and sanded flush.
I'll let the pictures do the talking. (the tin of pins is the difference in weight)
37g's is equivilent to 1.3oz.

Cheers,

Brad

RE: The complete YELLOW AIRCRAFT SPITFIRE thread.
 

Brad,

The big savings will be in nose weight! These Spitfires are always tail heavy. So if you save 37 grams in the tail you will save twice as much in nose weight. That would be roughly 75 grams of lead you won't need in the nose. Total savings of 111 grams, 4 oz. or .25 lbs. overall. That is huge! Do the same with those lightweight tail feathers and the improvements continue to add up.

Leo

RE: The complete YELLOW AIRCRAFT SPITFIRE thread.
 

Just speculating here, wouldnt it be more like 3 or 4 times the amount. Makes it an even better weight savings.
Edwin

RE: The complete YELLOW AIRCRAFT SPITFIRE thread.
 

approx 4:1 rule of thumb???

not sure how you calculate it exactly but would think that you take static CG point, then measure the nose moment and the tail moment using CG as the reference. Then use those measurements as a fraction.

say 100cm nose moment, 400cm tail moment give 1:4 ratio so 37 grams in tail saved equates to 148 grams in nose.

148 grams = 5.22054637 ounces

again assuming a 1:4 ratio, so working on that you save 185 grams, 185 grams = 6.52568296 ounces total

or

185 grams = 0.407855185 pounds

RE: The complete YELLOW AIRCRAFT SPITFIRE thread.
 

Force X Distance = Force X Distance. So on the Yellow Aircraft Spitfire the measurements are about 45.5" X 37 grams = 17" X 99 grams. The ratio on this airplane is 2.7 to 1. So savings are little bit better overall. Leo

RE: The complete YELLOW AIRCRAFT SPITFIRE thread.
 

Hi Guys
Just a small progress report on my spit build.Made a balsa master of a prop blade and had 5 resin ones made up ,spinner from epoxy cast from ali flying spinner.Cut out holes in fuse[gulp!!]made new fire wall.Cheers Nudge.

RE: The complete YELLOW AIRCRAFT SPITFIRE thread.
 

Nudge! You cut all those holes in the fuse! What is your plan to get back the structural strength adequate to hold this Spit together under flying conditions?

The YA fuse strength is dependant on the continuity of the structure. Honestly I have been hesitant to even cut the cockpit side door out for fear of significantly compromising the structural integrity of the fuse. Now I realize that it can all be added back internally through a variety of internal structures or even carbon fiber laminates. I am just curious as to what your plan is to handle this? Leo

RE: The complete YELLOW AIRCRAFT SPITFIRE thread.
 

He He He! I've decided after the build I'm currently working on, my planes will be mostly stand off scale. Framing up and finishing seems to be the half way point. I'm going mostly for every day flyers now. BUT, maybe do another scaler later on. Thats just an itch that needs scratchin every now and then. <g>
Edwin

RE: The complete YELLOW AIRCRAFT SPITFIRE thread.
 

Ballsy work Nudger!!!! Looks good Mate. A bit of paint, the tail on and a prop up front really make it look nice. I had thought of just cutting the door out of my Spitty and thought of the structural argument. I have some carbon fiber I can strengthen it with and it would be quite easy, but what you have done looks really cool, but way out of my league. I would never get it finished.[:o]
I am still waiting on parts to complete the back end of the Spit. Marty from JetFX has my tail wheel some where and I have control tubes coming from Hong Kong!!! I was going to order them from Towers but the only postage option I had was $78 US!!!!!![:'(]:( I couldnt believe it so my whole order went into the dust bin. Our dollar is only about 68 cents as well so it was just rediculous.
After I get the tail wheel in and the control rods I can glass the top deck in and start sanding and painting stuff.
I have finalised the cockpit front former shape and after a bit more thinking about things and covering it in Ali tape will glue it in for keeps. In front of that will be the 'fire proof' bulckhead and then I will work on the radio/tank tray. I have made also the instrument panel and blind flying panel. Steady steady.:eek:

Cheers

Brad

RE: The complete YELLOW AIRCRAFT SPITFIRE thread.
 

Brad, your instrument panel look great!

Would you mind sharing some "how to's" on that?

RE: The complete YELLOW AIRCRAFT SPITFIRE thread.
 

Cheers Mate,
All pretty easy really. I have some proper Spitfire plans I purchased from the UK. I scaled them on the computer to fit the fuselage of my Spit and printed it out. Then with a bit of shaping and artistic licence the result of the first piece is the ali panel with the cut out. I then just did a search for a 'Blind Flying Panel' on google images and scaled one to fit. These panels where very common in British fighter aircraft in WWII so this picture could be from a Hurricane before I know:). This one you see is the pictue taped onto the small ali (aluminium) shape of what will ultimatly become a proper looking panel with 3D instruments and bits. I will not be going overboard with the cockpit but want some good features. (who knows where it will lead to though???)
There is a mob here in Australia who specialise in small fastners, bolts screws etc and I will be ordering off them some bits for the cockpit.
www.ausbolts.com.au
I havent contacted them yet so I shall let you know how I go.

Cheers,

Brad

RE: The complete YELLOW AIRCRAFT SPITFIRE thread.
 

I have art work for a Spitfire panel which I created for my Taylor Spit. I would be happy to share if anyone wants to use it. The artwork was created in Adobe Illustrator and I can provide it in just about any format you like. It is at 1/5.5 scale but, of course, can easily be scale to whatever size is needed. I had to save it as a .JPG to post to my photobucket account and so much of the detail and resolution is lost. It looks much better in it's original Illustrator format or as a .PDF.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3.../SPITPANEL.jpg

RE: The complete YELLOW AIRCRAFT SPITFIRE thread.
 

Hi Brad,

I have been flying and not building so I have not kept up with the postings. We have had 4 great weekends in a row.

Yes the WEST Systems is great to bond to polyester, and so is polyester to polyester. On all the Yellow’s that I have built and repaired, I have never cleaned the inside of the fuselage before bonding, but on the outside, where they use the mold release, I always clean with acetone, sand, and clean with acetone again. So you are right on there.

Regarding control rods.

The easiest and cheapest thing to use is a $2 [ two dollar ] aluminum arrow shaft. You should be able to find this at most any sporting store. I will then glue in about 2 to 3 inches of dowel rod into to the end with 2 or 3 or 4 inches sticking out. Drill a hole 2 inches deep right down the middle of the dowel rod. Roughen up and chew up the sides of the control linkage [ so the epoxy will have something to bind to the metal of the control linkage rod and then bond to the hole down the middle of the dowel rod, of course use WEST Systems ] and boom !! You have a $30 [ thirty dollar ] control rod for 2 bucks and then you can tell Tower to stick it. Have used this set up for years. It is stiff and works and have never had a failure.

If I can I will make one up for demo.

RE: The complete YELLOW AIRCRAFT SPITFIRE thread.
 

Hi Bill, yeah Mate the ol' West Systems really sticks like S#!+ to a blanket as my test showed. I am confident now to be able to glue things where they are meant to be and they will stay there.
I am very disappointed in Towers. Why would the postage be so high? Is it because everything I ordered was parts express elegable? $78 is a joke and I had no other selections to choose from. Oh well I cancelled the whole order. I was going to get batteries and all sorts of stuff. I will try again before writing them right off. They are generally pretty good arnt they?

I have made simular push rods to your arrow shaft ones before out of carbon fiber tube but this time want to use Sullivan type Gold Rod as it will fit in better with my cockpit effort. I will be able (I hope) to run them as part of the floor/control structure, like the rudder peddal tubes or something like that.

Cheers,

Brad.

RE: The complete YELLOW AIRCRAFT SPITFIRE thread.
 

Hi Brad,

This will be short gotago fly.

Here is my rod, it took me about 2 minutes to build.

Here is a picture. Yes I leave the platic feathers on for directional stability. hee hee

Do not use the golden rods. Used one on my 3rd YA P47 that I built. I had to place stiffeners through the length of the fuselage every six inches because the thing would continually flex !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Do not use them. All the weight you are trying to save in the tail WILL be lost secondary to all the stiffeners that you have to place !!!!!!!!!! Do not use a golden rod. Not on this type of plane. On all my others I have used a arrow shaft or a fiberglass rod [ $8 bucks vs $30 - $40 for carbon fiber ]

Gotago fly.

RE: The complete YELLOW AIRCRAFT SPITFIRE thread.
 

No doubt the goldenrod disguised as pedal connections would classier running through the cockpit but I am sure the stiff (much stiffer) connection you will get using fibreglass or other composite material will make the plane fly a lot better. In fact they are a necessity in a plane of this size!

Got my own problems and need some advice. If I mount the DA50 on it's supplied standoffs the backplate clears the front cowl by about 1/8" Not bad BUT the whole arrangement looks mechanically unsound. Putting 5lbs on the end of 2" standoffs would seem to be to be inviting trouble. I would think the whole thing will vibrate enough to rip out the firewall in no time. But I have no experience with this kind of engine mounted that way. Alternatively I could mount the engine directly to the firewall (soft mount) but then I would need a prop shaft extender.... from where? OR I could build and mount an additional firwall further forward than the one already there and in just the right place to mount the engine directly to it.

Comments? Questions? How have others done it.

Look forward to replies.

Cheers

Len

RE: The complete YELLOW AIRCRAFT SPITFIRE thread.
 

Just for the record I just had to "Assemble" my Spit to get an idea of what it was going to look like...

So here it is...

Len

RE: The complete YELLOW AIRCRAFT SPITFIRE thread.
 

You need to get in touch with Leo Spychalla. He did a great job of mounting his DA-50 in the Yellow Spit somewhere there is a thread here on it. Prop shaft extensions are available through Darell at Sierra Giant Scale, and Ralph at RC Ignitions, and probably a few others. I believe he has a firewall that will flush mount the motor and have a recessed pocket behind if for the carb.
Sam

RE: The complete YELLOW AIRCRAFT SPITFIRE thread.
 

Bill, thanks Mate,, I am hearing you but am not too concerned as I have purchased the heavy duty semi flex ones with quite stiff inners in them. Would have to look up the actual name of them but too rushed at the moment. If I really dont like them I will do the arrow shaft thing. I know it just works so well.
Ibscottsdale,,,,,,,, lookin' good man. It is big isnt it?:D
Mounting of the DA50 can be found on the front page of this thread Guys.[sm=thumbs_up.gif]

Cheers,

Brad

RE: The complete YELLOW AIRCRAFT SPITFIRE thread.
 

Hey,

I LOVE this thread!!

RE: The complete YELLOW AIRCRAFT SPITFIRE thread.
 

Me too!![sm=tongue_smile.gif] I love my Yellow Spitty too!!!!! I just wish I had more time to build it. I am doing shutdown after shutdown at work and then have baby time and ,,,,,,,, well you know how it is.
Today however I got into the shed and made the fire proof bulkhead in front of the instrument panel frame. It will need some mods but I have the right shape to suit the fuselage sides so the rest will be easy. I want to give the cockpit some depth and this really does it.
I will be glassing and covering the frames with ali tape and then painting 'Cockpit Green'. The gun sight you see is potentially the only item of the original Y/A cockpit i received that I will use.
The instruments are for display only. I know they are the wrong ones at the moment. (excluding the blind flying panel)

Cheers,

Brad