RE: ME 262 Rebuild/Electric Conversion
 

Where are you getting yout EDF setup from?

RE: ME 262 Rebuild/Electric Conversion
 

I had replaced my fiberglass center section with a built up one. It was pretty heavy.

RE: ME 262 Rebuild/Electric Conversion
 

thanks mate. I try to keep up with your awsume work[8D]

I got the fan units today. will post pics tomorrow

RE: ME 262 Rebuild/Electric Conversion
 

Well, I'm not going to fill the thread with reason why my fan is the greatest, I never claimed that, ever. I'm not so sure why you are always so quick to put my fan down, Kirk, perhaps it's personal, but I don't know why, as I've only ever had praise for what you do. I'll try not to confuse you too much with engineering theory, I'm sorry if I come across too technical at times, but I'm an engineer, it's how I am.

Lets set a few facts straight, because Kirk's info only tells half the story. Mike's Maverick does about 140mph, true, but he flies it at an altitude above 5000' ASL, which is not conducive to great fan powered performance. I should also mention that in flight the power drops to about 2.9-3kW, we verified that with measurements. This is because the inlets are sized for a 117mm fan, and are way too big for this little fan, and he flies with a 90mm exhaust (because the large inlets force it to be that way). Scale the inlets up 40% on your TF400 powered Mav and see how much slower it goes. Bob's Spark wasn't a rocket ship, but it had unlimited vertical. This was because he stuck with a 90mm exhaust and didn't try going smaller. A local guy here has one with an 87mm exhaust and it does 170mph on the same power as Bob's. BTW, it takes off with 3kW and according to the telemetry it drops to 2.2-2.4kW in flight. Gordon's Hawk weighs over 16lb, for a wing loading of over 60oz/sqft. It's unfortunate that his airframe was over 2lb heavier than another customer's Hawk (from the same kit), who uses 10S for 2.8kW and gets the same level of performance. BTW, Gordon's Hawk does 140 in straight and level flight, and a bit more out of a dive. It's not hanging around, and I've had other people comment that it kept up with the turbines at a recent jet meet. Because of the high weight, he has to have a larger exhaust than optimum in order to get good vertical performance. He's not after blistering speed (which seems to be a preoccupation with USA chaps - my European customers don't give a hoot about top speed, they want the overall jet experience), but rather good aerobatic performance. It has nothing to do with energy management, although Gordon does do a super job of flying such a heavy model so well. If my fan has one real flaw, it's that it unloads more than I expected in flight. I had intended that it would unload more than normal to prevent motor meltdowns, but it since I was able to get Neumotors to do a longer motor there's no worry about it anymore. The above are not a bunch of excuses, just how things turned out for those 3 aircraft. I have a bunch of customers who are using the fan in its intended way - converting old 91 ICDF models - taking out their Ramtec fan and replacing it with an SM110-52 and being very happy that is flies better than it ever did. The SM110-52 was never designed to fly models at close to 200mph, it was designed to use 2.5-3kW in 91 ICDF models, fly them at scale speeds with good low down performance to allow grass field ops, which it does very well. It was also designed to have a less annoying sound than other EDF units around, and I'm pretty sure anyone who has heard one in flight in person compared to the other fans will surely agree that it succeeds there. It wasn't designed to out into 15-17lb lead plated turbine kits, trying to get more performance by throwing more power at it. I may have to look at doing a fan aimed purely at high speed flight, just to keep the US chaps happy.

All that aside, I think the best solution for the 262 probably is the EVF, as it does sound better than the TF4000, and the extra weight of it won't matter so much.

RE: ME 262 Rebuild/Electric Conversion
 

Two updates:

1. I received the Thunder Tiger Digital Servos. Going with the 1313's for flaps and ailerons at 6.0 volts at 171 oz. Using 1015 at 6.0 volts for Elevator and Rudder at 201 oz. These are the same servos I used on my Meister Scale BF109 shown here and I think they are an excellent product.

2. Replacing the aeronaut 5mm rotor fans for 8mm.

Todd-servos are in the mail Monday. Also have one Hitec might mini for retract valve in the box, plus other "goodies".

RE: ME 262 Rebuild/Electric Conversion
 

kewl Rich, I need some servos for my next project:D.

have some pics to send you. nothing special. just have the
plane all sanded down, red spotty done, and ready to be
sanded down.

will be routing wires this week, and work on the fan mounting.

then onto panel lines and rivets

RE: ME 262 Rebuild/Electric Conversion
 

I have had a few private messages asking more about the history of this plane and the DF setup...so here is what I know. I bought this plane from a seller out of AZ...many of you may know him. I believe I was told that Big Joe Saitta himself built this plane and flew it with the glow DF setup. I emailed Joe to ask him a little more about the history and he ignored me [img][/img]. The AZ seller told me he flew it at an event near Mesa and did a rush paint job just to make the show. He told me it flew fine and with the DF setup. Now he also was trying to make a sale...so you figure it out.

I did some bench running of the engines while I was debating on flying it with DF. The Starboard engine ran fine with minor tunning. The Port engine was a mess. I suspect the fuel fouling you see on the pipe was from the Port Engine as it had fuel feed problems and would flood. Lots of issues. Two risky with a twin DF at over 32 pounds to have an engine flame out...thus the electric conversion.

I have not completly giving up on DF. I still have them in a BVM Maverick and have had them in Yellow Aircraft A-4's. A friend of mine loves them if you know how to tune them they still do the job. I just have no faith in a glow DF setup for a twin plane. I have used OS, BVM and Rossi DF engines...I tend to favor BVM so far, but thats just my opinion.

Anyways I hope this help answer your question?

RE: ME 262 Rebuild/Electric Conversion
 

General Body work....

RE: ME 262 Rebuild/Electric Conversion
 

Fitting the fans....

RE: ME 262 Rebuild/Electric Conversion
 

wouldnt it be better to fit the fans in the rear of the cowl? Less resistance ..........

RE: ME 262 Rebuild/Electric Conversion
 

pandissix
Built two of JS kits both turbine powered. both were heavy. I have a few pix's on my page @
http://homepage.mac.com/uncljoe/me262/PhotoAlbum45.html
IMO the best electric Me262 is the one from airworld .Good luck with your build. If you do have the JS plane it did fly well on props, but to my knowledge never on DF. Used to have a tape with it flying ON Props.

Semper Fi
Joe

RE: ME 262 Rebuild/Electric Conversion
 

Joe Super cool website!!!! I have two questions for you:

1. Can you tell me the scale of your ace of irons pilot in the JS 262? 1/4?

2. Do you have any more detailed photos of your fuselage gun hatch forward of the canopy?

Thanks.

RE: ME 262 Rebuild/Electric Conversion
 

Pandissix
The pilot I used for JS kit was aces of Iron 1/5 was a little small but did not look like a giant that the 1/4 scale one did; used the 1/4 one in the French kit 1/4 scale me262. You'll have to give me a few weeks to see what I have on the forward fuselage shots(moving to AZ ) .The forward hatch (where the guns were serviced)in the fuselage, used drawing to figure where it should go and a 1/4" or 3/8" brass piano hinge & BVM latch pins as locks.
Semper Fi
Joe

RE: ME 262 Rebuild/Electric Conversion
 

Thanks again Joe. Not real happy with the pilot options. Thought about kit bashing a GI Joe to look late war...thought about the cotton stuffed pilots like Dino and others sell...and yes looking at Ace of Irons...not sure if anyone else out there has a correct size and late war themed Luftwaffe pilot???? Ideas?

I would be interested to see your photos when you get settled. Moving to the West Coast just in time for Warbirds over Bakerfield....ehhh Burley??? Make it happen.

RE: ME 262 Rebuild/Electric Conversion
 

I cannot wait to see this fine jet finished.

RE: ME 262 Rebuild/Electric Conversion
 

GREAT THREAD...

KEEP IT COMING!

I HAVE ONE IN BOXES... UNSTARTED KIT...


-TOMAS

RE: ME 262 Rebuild/Electric Conversion
 

I got a 1/5 german pilot bust from Gator RC a couple of years back. I like to use the Aces of Iron if possible. They paint up very well and are very light.

RE: ME 262 Rebuild/Electric Conversion
 

Just a minor update...not much to report. Received some misc, supplies connectors servo leads and retaining clips. ESC's have been ordered and should have them this week. I decided to go with a 1/5 scale Ace of irons pilot so that has been ordered as well. In a the holding pattern waiting on some gear to arrive then will order the motors next week.

RE: ME 262 Rebuild/Electric Conversion
 

Another minor update. ESC arrived and the pilot.

RE: ME 262 Rebuild/Electric Conversion
 

A couple of updates. Filling in the original switch locations and locating a scale hatch position for the BVM filler valve set.

RE: ME 262 Rebuild/Electric Conversion
 

In my quest to find the perfect pilot I came across this guy on ebay...circa 1970's appears to be 1/6 to 1/5 scale...anybody know much about this one? I won the bid but have not received it yet. This maybe another option over the AOI pilot?

RE: ME 262 Rebuild/Electric Conversion
 

looks great Rich. do you have any measurements of him?

RE: ME 262 Rebuild/Electric Conversion
 

Some updates: Delays due to round the clock bombing and some fool wants to make this a bomber!!!! things put on a hold for about a month. In the meantime I have ordered the NEU motor 1527 1.5y with 8mm shafts. When you order them they build at that time, so the turn around is a few weeks. In the meantime started the very initial stages of painting the pilot...it has a long way to go. Expect that this project will get moving again in Mid January...stay tuned.

RE: ME 262 Rebuild/Electric Conversion
 

I have asked my brother Robert Pandis to help me paint the AOI pilot. As a kid I watched him build and paint 1/72 scale russian and german tanks and planes, he would have full dioramas of the battle of kursk...and Berlin.... This is the first AOI pilot he has painted and I think it will turn out very well. I am not 100 percent happy with the style of the AOI pilot, as I really want a late war figure...I will continue my search....and know I can always use this figure in other Luftwaffe planes.

RE: ME 262 Rebuild/Electric Conversion
 

what makes him not a late war pilot?