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-   -   ME 262 Rebuild/Electric Conversion (http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-warbirds-warplanes-200/8046274-me-262-rebuild-electric-conversion.html)

pandissix 10-13-2008 07:26 PM

ME 262 Rebuild/Electric Conversion
 
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I am starting this thread to document the re-furbish/rebuild and electric conversion of a Joe Saita ME 262. I puchased this plane off a Respected seller on RCU. Seller stated plane flew with existing set-up. Original set-up included (2) OS .91 Ducted fan motors with a "Dry" weight of 32 pounds. Original Paint scheme is a "Red 13" of JV44 Heinz Bar. Original paint scheme was a 3 on a 10 scale.

Attached photos show plane as purchased with original setup and paint scheme.

pandissix 10-13-2008 07:29 PM

RE: ME 262 Rebuild/Electric Conversion
 
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Photos show the marginal quality of the orignal paint scheme, sorry cock-pit and ducted fan set-up. Wingspan is 106 inches, and is pictured with my MEISTER SCALE FW190 D-9 for size reference. (I dont know the guy in the photo).

pandissix 10-13-2008 07:35 PM

RE: ME 262 Rebuild/Electric Conversion
 
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I have inlisted the help of Todd Burley in taking on this project. Several others will be helping with the electric conversion. I will list them at a later date. Burley is one of the top painters in the S. CA area and recently helped with a BF109 project of mine, so I managed to get him to tackle this project. Some of the photos below show some of the early progress in getting the plane prep for primer and refurbish. I have deceided to replace all servos, plumbing and hardware in the conversion. I will keep the retract setup, but everything else is getting removed.

pandissix 10-13-2008 07:41 PM

RE: ME 262 Rebuild/Electric Conversion
 
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I will give much more detail later on this, but initial plan is to go with NEU motors, Castle 110 ESC and a new fan system. Batteries are being researched at this time. I Have spent a lot of time on BVM website, but price is a major hurdle.

Will work this out with Burley but my first scheme of choice is a JG 7 scheme. Anybody know which plane "Nowotny" was shot down in? I will post pics as I get them.


t_burley 10-13-2008 08:00 PM

RE: ME 262 Rebuild/Electric Conversion
 
Rich, I asked Evo over here.
he might have some info on
the Nowotny 262

I have found this Rich, still looking to verify though

http://wind.prohosting.com/flyaces/u...ternowotny.htm

tp777fo 10-13-2008 08:13 PM

RE: ME 262 Rebuild/Electric Conversion
 
Take a look at Stumax fans from Australia......sounds like a jet with 14#or more thrust

t_burley 10-13-2008 08:16 PM

RE: ME 262 Rebuild/Electric Conversion
 
thanks tom, the fans we are looking at are the Aeronaut Turbo Fan 4000's.
the combination I have in mind is based on units that Kirk Sonnier on this
forum has been using in other jets he has built.

with talking to him recently, he believes the setup will work very well
with the 262.

fw190d9 10-13-2008 08:16 PM

RE: ME 262 Rebuild/Electric Conversion
 
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Here is Nowy's scheme
E.

t_burley 10-13-2008 08:17 PM

RE: ME 262 Rebuild/Electric Conversion
 
kewl, thanks E. I hadnt gone thru all my books
here yet, and have that book you are referencing
from.

thanks dude

RCSCALEGUY 10-13-2008 08:29 PM

RE: ME 262 Rebuild/Electric Conversion
 
Good job Rich, glad to see your going electric. I should make for a very reliable setup. Depending on fan unit and motor 1521 1.5y or 1527 1.5y you should see great results. Look at Steve Neu's website to see the details on the fans mentioned above. As for packs make sure you go for 25c or greater to keep heat to a minimum and power to spare. The Castle creations 110 HV should be a great choice with great service to boot. Make sure to share the hatch your going to create to place batteries at a good CG location. Also ventilation of the batteries within the fuse. I'll be waiting to see this one launch.




pandissix 10-13-2008 08:58 PM

RE: ME 262 Rebuild/Electric Conversion
 
RCSCALEGUY,

Lets chat when you get back from the East Coast. Need to Talk to Ace Hobbies. Looking for (2) 1015 and (6) 1313 Digital servos from Thunder Tiger. I was so impressed with the TT product from the BF109 rebuild...it is a must I go with them again. Oh and dont worry you didnt miss any flying this weekend...the wind and fires have everyone grounded.

ticketec 10-14-2008 01:54 AM

RE: ME 262 Rebuild/Electric Conversion
 
Hey pandissix@aol.com,

What a great subject!!! i love the 262. i looked into geting one of these kits off Joe, but we couldn't get it shippd to Australia easily. so i ended up with another one of my favorites the 80" Me-163

Check out the united hobbies 100A ESC's they are performing just was well as the CC ECS's and a fair bit cheaper. the Zippy H batteries are also not too bad and getting good reviews from the chopper guys who really give them a workout.

I have them both in my converted Byron F-16 which is just awaiting it's maiden flight.

thanks

dave

k_sonn 10-17-2008 07:39 AM

RE: ME 262 Rebuild/Electric Conversion
 
Todd,

Thanks for sending me the link.

It was good talking to you a couple of weeks ago when we discussed fan options. Based on the size and weight of this plane I still think the two best options are the Aeronaut TF4000 or the BVM EVF. If you guys decide on the TF4000, the only motor/controller combo I would consider using is an 8mm shaft Nue 1527 1.5Y and the Castle Creations HV110. This is a well proven combo that I have been flying for a couple of years. I have had it in a BVM Electra and a Yellow Aircraft Starfire and no other fan/motor/controller combo has been able to beat it speed wise. The EVF also uses a Nue motor and CC HV110 combo and is a rock solid setup (especially for scale) and sounds better than the TF4000. The one thing you get with the EVF that you don't get with the TF4000 is customer service. If an EVF gets FOD damage you send it to BVM and they fix it, test it, and send it back to you. If TF4000 gets FOD damage, you may wait months for replacement parts to come from Germany.

Someone mentioned a stumax fan. I personally don't think that fan is right for this project. I have seen video of it in three airplanes; a BVM Maverick, Composite ARF Spark, and a Jim Fox Hawk. The Maverick reaches a top speed of about 140mph (I got this information from the owner of the plane). I had a lower powered TF4000 setup in a Maverick a couple of years ago and it would hit 165mph all day long. The owner of the Spark sold it because the performance wasn't what he had expected and the owner of the Hawk is one of the best energy management pilots around and even then he only gets a top speed of 130mph. Now, if Stu were to read my opinion he would fill your thread with reasons why his fan is the greatest and show you all kinds of bench test data and try to baffle you with a bunch of engineering theroy but in reatlity, the only thing that matters is how does it perform in a plane.

In my opinion, the magnitude of this project is too great to risk to a fan that sounds good, or less expensive controllers, or less expensive batteries. Go with what the EDF guys flying the large high powered planes are using. With that being said I guess I should mention batteries. Which ever fan you choose (TF4000 or EVF) go with a 12 cell setup. I highly recommend the 6400 mAh Flight Power EVO 30 batteries. You can get these from BVM. They run cool (which is very important for longevity) and give decent flight times. They aren't cheap but they are cheaper than buying multiples sets of less expensive batteries that don't last.

Just so you can see how the TF4000 and EVF perform here's a couple of links to video from the first annual E-Jets flyin. The first link is from the trim flight of my Starfire. Full throttle was used during the take off and through the first up wind pass. The rest of the flight was 1/2 throttle with a few quarter throttle passes so a photographer could get photos for the RC Jet International magazine. The Starfire has a TF4000/Nue 1527 1.5Y combo. Towards the end of the video I experience contoller shut down. I was trying out a Kontroniks 63V controller and it shut down for no apparent reason (see above where I mention use only the well proven equipment). The second link is for a BVM F-4. This plane weighed 30 pounds and was flying with two 10 cell EVFs. These are the lowest powered EVFs.


[link=http://rcuvideos.com/video/Starfire-3rd-Flight-wmv]http://rcuvideos.com/video/Starfire-3rd-Flight-wmv[/link]

[link=http://rcuvideos.com/video/BVM-F-4-Noon-Demo-Flight-wmv]http://rcuvideos.com/video/BVM-F-4-Noon-Demo-Flight-wmv[/link]


Kirk

pandissix 10-20-2008 11:18 AM

RE: ME 262 Rebuild/Electric Conversion
 
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Degreased, sand and primer work.

pandissix 10-20-2008 11:23 AM

RE: ME 262 Rebuild/Electric Conversion
 
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Todd...a few other paint schemes to consider. White 3 JV 44 perhaps? Both Galland and Stiegler flew it...attached are signed prints by the pilots. I am leaning towards the grey RLM more than the Green schemes.

skull1971 10-20-2008 05:05 PM

RE: ME 262 Rebuild/Electric Conversion
 
Please keep us up to date on your rebuild.

t_burley 10-20-2008 07:00 PM

RE: ME 262 Rebuild/Electric Conversion
 
Rich, whichever scheme you want, I shall paint.

pandissix 10-22-2008 02:53 PM

RE: ME 262 Rebuild/Electric Conversion
 
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Todd,

Ok I am decided. I would like to go with the paint scheme:

Painted with RLM 83 along the top of the fuselage, leaving a high demarcation line at which point it broke down into a mottle of RLM 83 and 82 over RLM 76. "running fox" emblem of JG7, single black Chevron and the blue/red defense of Reich bands.

I have this in an Osprey book if you need it. I do not know if it was in any of the Jadgwaffe books I sent you.

Also notice the direction of the fox on port and starboard JG 7 emblems.


Evil_Merlin 10-22-2008 03:01 PM

RE: ME 262 Rebuild/Electric Conversion
 
I've always wanted to build one of these 262's. I have Joe's 82" 163 and if the glass work is as good on the 262, you are going to have one fine bird.

pandissix 10-22-2008 03:19 PM

RE: ME 262 Rebuild/Electric Conversion
 
Todd,

Aeronaut TF 4000 (2) have been ordered. YOu should have them by Friday. Reading Kirk advise and crunching some numbers, I think this is the best option and more cost effective than the BVM option. Everything is x2 cost wise, so the BVM option was a killer. If I am crunching numbers right, I think I can do the TF 4000, Neu motors and Castle esc for the price of one BVM system.

LMK when they arrived....they are insured.

t_burley 10-22-2008 06:52 PM

RE: ME 262 Rebuild/Electric Conversion
 
sceme looks great to me Rich.

I'll let you know when I get them. If they are here
friday, I can do some preliminary fitting then.

also will have the center section sanded out and in
primer as well

Ram-bro 10-23-2008 12:31 PM

RE: ME 262 Rebuild/Electric Conversion
 
You guys really got me curious about an electric setup. I have my 262 in primer with 2 OS 120axs for power. The twin D/F option on glow is no fun. I havethe Byron F15 and it is work keeping it clean and flying. Twin turbines were out the pic....minimum of about $5K also not fun. Twin electric vs twin glow.........I will be using the twin sync on mine if I go forward with the OS 120s. The problem with using the OS 120s is trying to find a 3 blade prop with enough ground clearance. The cost with a twin sync for these 2 motors is about $550.00 vs approx. $1500 for a twin electric setup..........

pandissix 10-23-2008 01:28 PM

RE: ME 262 Rebuild/Electric Conversion
 
Ram-bro. My two cents worth is hold off on the prop set-up. Follow this forum and see how our setup works out. In my opinion this 262 is going to be a show stopper. The quality of work that Todd does is amazing. He can explain further, but its is at the highest level. I initially researched making this a turbine conversion, but price and weight was too much. I love BVM EVF product and quality but then again their price was considerably more than the direction we are going. The original owner "claimed" this flew for 9 minutes under ducted fan .91 power. I just dont trust ducted fans, epecially twin df for this size and quality of project. I had visions of one of the df flamming out...then the fun would really begin. Please Please Please dont props on a 262....

Evil_Merlin 10-23-2008 02:17 PM

RE: ME 262 Rebuild/Electric Conversion
 
Some of us really don't have the option except for props on the front...

Believe me I wish I could do EDF on em, but the cost for twin EDF's on a bird this size is scary expensive, not to mention flight times are not going to be all that good.

That being said EDF's are MUCH more reliable than glow ducted fan...

Since Joe is now offereing a fiberglass built up center section, when things calm down with my medical expenses I may look into it closer.

THESCALEMAN 10-23-2008 03:19 PM

RE: ME 262 Rebuild/Electric Conversion
 
good to see you are still doing german warbirds Todd!......keeping an eye on this conversion...

all the best

dave


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