Not a correct guess, sorry! :(

A new clue: (This should make it EASY!!!)

1. He was a fighter pilot who had great success, but he and the members of his flight were not recognized as well as their peers in another service in the same nation.

2. The enemy did indeed recognize the success of this flight, and eventually they copied some of their equipment and practices.

3. He was once lost in a fog and landed by mistake at an enemy aerodrome. When he saw the enemy markings on the parked aircraft, he quickly took off and escaped.

4. The terminal in the airport of the city of his birth is named in his honour.

5. He later admitted in his autobiography that his experiences in Russia had been far more frightening than those on the Western Front.

6. One of the practices copied by the enemy in clue #2 that was copied by the enemy was the practice of painting all the aircraft in the flight the same colour.

1. He was a fighter pilot who had great success, but he and the members of his flight were not recognized as well as their peers in another service in the same nation.

2. The enemy did indeed recognize the success of this flight, and eventually they copied some of their equipment and practices.

3. He was once lost in a fog and landed by mistake at an enemy aerodrome. When he saw the enemy markings on the parked aircraft, he quickly took off and escaped.

4. The terminal in the airport of the city of his birth is named in his honour.

5. He later admitted in his autobiography that his experiences in Russia had been far more frightening than those on the Western Front.

6. One of the practices copied by the enemy in clue #2 that was copied by the enemy was the practice of painting all the aircraft in the flight the same colour.

7. Some historians credit him with 81 kills, more than the Red Baron or Billy Bishop.

No more clues without some guesses!!

1. He was a fighter pilot who had great success, but he and the members of his flight were not recognized as well as their peers in another service in the same nation.

2. The enemy did indeed recognize the success of this flight, and eventually they copied some of their equipment and practices.

3. He was once lost in a fog and landed by mistake at an enemy aerodrome. When he saw the enemy markings on the parked aircraft, he quickly took off and escaped.

4. The terminal in the airport of the city of his birth is named in his honour.

5. He later admitted in his autobiography that his experiences in Russia had been far more frightening than those on the Western Front.

6. One of the practices copied by the enemy in clue #2 that was copied by the enemy was the practice of painting all the aircraft in the flight the same colour.

7. Some historians credit him with 81 kills, more than the Red Baron or Billy Bishop.

8. The colour of the aircraft in his flight was: Black. (See clue #6)

Raymond Collishaw?

Terry

And we have a winner!!!! Raymond Collishaw it is!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Collishaw

Many thinks to Ernie P. for all his support and keeping this thread going!!

Redback, you have the floor!!!

Getting harder to find questions than answers, but I'll see what I can come up with.

Meantime, if anyone has a question feel free to dive in.

Terry

OK, managed to scratch something together:-

In its early form this mighty hunter contributed to knowledge of aircraft design, but at terrible cost.


Terry

Hunter? Early aircraft design? Terrible cost? Could you be thinking of Samuel Cowdery, also known as Samuel Cody and often confused (I believe deliberately) with Buffalo Bill Cody? Thanks; Ernie P.

Samuel Franklin Cowdery (later known as Samuel Franklin Cody; 6 March 1867 – 7 August 1913, born Davenport, Iowa, USA) was a Wild West showman and early pioneer of manned flight. He is most famous for his work on the large kites known as Cody War-Kites that were used by the British in World War I as a smaller alternative to balloons for artillery spotting. He was also the first man to conduct a powered flight in Britain, on 16 October 1908. A flamboyant showman, he was and still is often confused with Buffalo Bill Cody, whose surname he took when young.

Cody's early life is difficult to separate from his own stories told later in life, but he was born Samuel Franklin Cowdery in 1867 in Davenport, Iowa, where he attended school until the age of 12. Not much is known about his life at this time although he claimed that during his youth he had lived the typical life of a cowboy. He learned how to ride and train horses, shoot and use a lasso. He later claimed to have prospected for gold in an area which later became Dawson City, centre of the famous Klondike Gold Rush.

In 1888, at 21 years of age, Cody started touring the US with Forepaugh's Circus, which at the time had a large Wild West show component. He married Maud Maria Lee in Norristown, Pennsylvania, and the name Samuel Franklin Cody appears on the April, 1889 marriage certificate.

Later that year the Army decided to back the development of a powered aeroplane, the British Army Aeroplane No 1. After just under a year of construction he started testing the machine in September 1908, gradually lengthening his "hops" until they reached 1,390 ft (420 m) on 16 October.

His flight of 5 October is recognised as the first official flight of a piloted heavier than air machine in Great Britain. The machine had been damaged at the end of the 16 October flight. After repairs and extensive modifications Cody flew it again early the following year. But the War Office then decided to stop backing development of heavier-than-air aircraft, and Cody's contract with the Army ended in April 1909. Cody was given the aircraft, and continued to work on the aircraft at Farnborough, using Laffan's Plain for his test flights.

On May 14 he succeeded in flying the aircraft for over a mile, establishing the first official British distance and endurance records. By August 1909 Cody had completed the last of his long series of modifications to the aircraft. Cody carried passengers for the first time on 14 August 1909, first his old workmate Capper, and then Lela Cody (Mrs Elizabeth Mary King).

On 29 December 1909 Cody became the first man to fly from Liverpool in an unsuccessful attempt to fly non-stop between Liverpool and Manchester. He set off from Aintree Racecourse at 12.16 p.m., but only nineteen minutes later was forced to land at Valencia Farm near to Eccleston Hill, St Helens, close to Prescot because of thick fog.

On 7 June 1910 Cody received Royal Aero Club certificate number 9 using a newly built aircraft and won the Michelin Cup for the longest flight made in England during 1910 with a flight of 4 hours 47 minutes on 31 December. In 1911 a third aircraft was the only British plane to complete the Daily Mails "Circuit of Great Britain" air race, finishing fourth, for which achievement he was awarded the Silver Medal of the R.Ae.C. in 1912. The Cody V machine with a new 120 hp (90 kW) engine won the £5,000 prize at the 1912 British Military Aeroplane Competition Military Trials on Salisbury Plain.

Cody continued to work on aircraft using his own funds. On 7 August 1913 he was test flying his latest design, the Cody Floatplane, when it broke up at 500 ft and he and his passenger (the cricketer William Evans) were both killed. He was buried with full military honours in the Aldershot Military Cemetery; the funeral procession drew an estimated crowd of 100,000.

Adjacent to Cody's own grave marker is a memorial to his only son, Samuel Franklin Leslie Cody, (father of a son also called S.F. Cody) who joined the Royal Flying Corps and "fell in action fighting four enemy machines" in 1917.

A team of volunteer enthusiasts built a full-sized replica of British Army Aeroplane No 1 to commemorate the 100th anniversary of the first flight. It is on permanent display at the Farnborough Air Sciences Trust Museum in Farnborough, UK. The display is about three hundred metres from the take-off point of the historic flight.

In April 2013 two of Cody's great-grandsons appeared on BBC One's Antiques Roadshow with two Michelin Trophies, won by Cody, each valued at £25,000 - £30,000.

Cody Technology Park, Farnborough was named in honour and recognition of this pioneer of innovation and technology.

A statue commemorating Cody's work standards adjacent to the Farnborough Air Sciences Trust Museum

No, not Samuel Cowdery or even Sam Cody.

For now I will say no more than the clue is a little convoluted!

Terry

Another Clue:-

In its early form this mighty hunter contributed to knowledge of aircraft design, but at terrible cost.

Other countries (including mine) use a different hunter for the same role


Terry

Lockheed Orion? (With the Electra being the early version with the defective design?) Just guessing, mostly on the basis of the Greek myth.

Al,

You are soooooo close, however Orion is not the answer I am looking for. Just one more step of deduction will get you there. Meantime, an obsure clue for classical music lovers!

OK, I'll try a different hunter. How about the Hawker Siddley Nimrod. with the Comet as the flawed predecessor? Interesting that both the British and the American sub hunters were not only named for hunters, which makes sense, but were descendants of airliners with serious design flaws.

Yep, the Nimrod it is!

As you say decended from the Comet, which suffered a number of fatal crashes due to metal fatigue caused in part by stress concentrations around its revolutionary square windows.

The final clue relates to a piece of classical music called Enigma Variations, which includes a track called Nimrod.

As you say, a lot of common links between the two aircraft. Ours are out right now helping to look for the Malaysian Airlines 777 that went missing.

Terry

Very interesting set of clues. I knew there was a piece of music called the Enigma Variations but didn't remember that it was by Elgar or the "Nimrod" part.

Which leaves me up, without a question ready. I'll come up with something by tomorrow, but if someone else would like to jump in first I wouldn't mind a bit.

OK. Hope this one hasn't been asked before. The thread's so long it's hard to know.

Looking for a plane.

1. First flew in the 60's and some are still in service today.

Chengdu J-7? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chengdu_J-7
Dassault Mirage 5? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Mirage_5_%26_50
Dassault Mirage F1 or F2 or G? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Mirage_F1 etc.
Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-23? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan-Gurevich_MiG-23
And many more...

Right answer, in a way, because it's one of the "many more." This may narrow it down. But not much.

1. First flew in the 60's and some are still in service today.

2. Its official nickname is so hokey that some discipline is required to say it with a straight face. (And no, it's not the A-10, which first flew in the 70's.)

Lockheed C-5 Galaxy? aka "FRED" (Fantastic Ridiculous Economic Disaster)
Cessna T-41 Mescalero? aka "Chickenhawk".
Douglas AC-47? aka "Puff, the Magic Dragon"
Northrop Grumman EA-6B Prowler? aka "Queer, Q-Bird, Sterile Arrow, Double Ugly, Gliding Electric Show"
Boeing CH-47 Chinook? aka "****hook"
General Dynamics F-111 Aardvark? aka "Swinger"
Fairchild Metroliner? aka "The Texas Tampon"

And my personal favourite:

Cessna Skymaster? aka "Suck and Blow"

Some of those aren't too bad. But I'm looking for one with a hokey official nickname (at least for the first version). I don't know whether it ever got an unofficial one (like "Warthog" for the A-10). My ignorance on this point may be a clue in itself. Although a lot of these were produced, over a long time, their public relations weren't all that impressive.

Morning clue:

1. First flew in the 60's and some are still in service today.

2. Its official nickname is so hokey that some discipline is required to say it with a straight face. (And no, it's not the A-10, which first flew in the 70's.)

3. First version was a fighter.

it couldn't possibly be (first airplane I was ever officially 'Crew Chief' for...)
the F-111 Aardvark?

EDIT... I should have read johnnyS's post :-/
it's not the f-111.

Well, that one got me looking up stuff, because I didn't know until I looked that "Aardvark" was (eventually) an official nickname. While there's obviously a lot of subjectivity here, I think "Aardvark" (like "Warthog") is a pretty cool name. The official nickname of the plane I've got in mind was an obvious marketing ploy, though.

(Not relevant, but since we're on the subject of aircraft names, my all-time favorite name for a model is the "Supreme Weasel." It was a small rubber.powered model, made by a company called "Supreme." I have an unbuilt kit.)

As you have stated, some subjectivity is involved here. However, as an obvious, and self serving, marketing ploy, the F-5 "Freedom Fighter" comes to mind. Thanks; Ernie P.


The Northrop F-5A/B Freedom Fighter and the F-5E/F Tiger II are part of a family of widely used light supersonic fighter aircraft, designed and built by Northrop. Although less complex and advanced than some contemporary aircraft such as the McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II, it was significantly cheaper to procure and operate, and the type became a popular aircraft on the export market. While not procured in volume by the United States, it was perhaps the most effective air-to-air fighter possessed by the U.S. in the 1960s and early 1970s.[4] The aircraft had a compact size, high maneuverability, favorable flying qualities, low accident rate, and high sortie generation rate;[5] Similar to the Soviet Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21, these qualities led to hundreds of F-5s remaining in service into the 21st century.

The F-5 started life as a privately funded light fighter program by Northrop in the 1950s. The design team wrapped a small, highly aerodynamic fighter around two compact and high-thrust General Electric J85 engines, focusing on performance and low cost of maintenance. Armed with twin 20 mm cannons and missiles for air-to-air combat, the aircraft was also a capable ground-attack platform. The F-5A entered service in the early 1960s. During the Cold War, over 800 were produced through 1972 for U.S. allies. The USAF had no acknowledged need for a light fighter, instead it procured roughly 1,200 Northrop T-38 Talon trainer aircraft, an F-5 derivative.

After winning the International Fighter Aircraft competition in 1970, a program aimed at providing effective low-cost fighters to American allies, Northrop introduced the second-generation F-5E Tiger II in 1972. This upgrade included more powerful engines, higher fuel capacity, greater wing area and improved leading edge extensions for a better turn rate, optional air-to-air refueling, and improved avionics including air-to-air radar. Primarily used by American allies, it was also used in US training exercises. A total of 1,400 Tiger IIs were built before production ended in 1987. More than 3,800 F-5 and T-38 aircraft were produced in Hawthorne, California.

The F-5 was also developed into a dedicated reconnaissance version, the RF-5 Tigereye. The F-5 also served as a starting point for a series of design studies which resulted in the Northrop YF-17 and the F/A-18 navalized fighter aircraft. The Northrop F-20 Tigershark was an advanced variant to succeed the F-5E which was ultimately canceled. The F-5N/F variants are in service with the United States Navy and United States Marine Corps as an adversary trainer. The F-5 is in service in the air forces of more than 25 nations as of November 2013.

F-5 it is! A terrific plane, which a lot of people have never heard of.