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-   -   120-inch Focke Wulf Ta-154 build. (http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-warbirds-warplanes-200/9987638-120-inch-focke-wulf-ta-154-build.html)

Sessholvlaru 09-07-2010 11:26 PM

120-inch Focke Wulf Ta-154 build.
 
1 Attachment(s)
The wait has been well worth it and I have the bulk of the wood necessary to get going on this project. This is an RCM plan (5-76) that was blown up to 120-inches in wingspan. I picked it because it is a fairly unique plane and that the outline is 100% scale drawn from three-views according to the author. The kit was cut by Michael at kitcutter.com and the work is top notch. The original plan called for twin .40's with a 70-inch span, and I figure this beast will want twin DLE 55's, which have proven themselves to me. However, that is not certain yet as I have no idea what the final weight will be. Here are some plan pics and the V1 scheme I will be doing. I hope to compete with this plane. Some points of interest:

1) The plans scaled up so that the main wheels are 6-inches. Nosewheel is 4-inches. Will need custom retracts. Suggestions? I hear Sierra is getting hard to get in touch with?

2) The original plan is for a one piece wing. Obviously this won't "fly." I was thinking removable wings outside of the nacelles with two carbon fiber tubes. Is this method sound?

3) Anyone have a May '76 copy of RCM that they can scan for me? I had a copy of the construction article, but seem to have lost it. Not that it will be much help, but it can't hurt.

JPate147 09-08-2010 12:11 AM

RE: 120-inch Focke Wulf Ta-154 build.
 
Good luck with your build - that will be a unique project. I will follow this with interest. Just use better glue than the Nazi's did. :)

Sessholvlaru 09-08-2010 12:40 AM

RE: 120-inch Focke Wulf Ta-154 build.
 
1 Attachment(s)
Indeed, lol. I will only be using that new Tego-film brand CyA. Thanks for the interest.

I shot Glennis an e-mail in regards to wheels as they seem to be the best, albeit pricey. The Ta-154 had wheels unlike the Bf-109, Ju-88, Bf-110 and other more common Luftwaffe birds so they will need to be custom made at some point.

I have a Dragon 1:48 scale plastic model and a Ta-154 book from Myhra for reference. Luckily, being that the full-size was made of mostly wood, there are very few panel lines compared to a sheet metal bird. The plastic kit details TE+FE, the prototype I will model. I picked this one because it is one of the few Ta-154's which had no radar installed in them and had a smooth nose. I'm not a fan of the "whiskers" of the Lichtenstein radar. Later Ta-154's had wing-mounted radar, but I really like the splinter camo. It should also be easy to paint.

David Bathe 09-08-2010 03:01 AM

RE: 120-inch Focke Wulf Ta-154 build.
 
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What a great project!
Marvelous airplane, the Germans produced several wicked scale subjects that you hardly see modelled by us RC'er's.
One observation: 2x 50cc! That's going to be plenty I'm sure.
I saw a 1/4 scale Wellington in the UK that was powered by 2x3W 60s... and the plane bellow, by two G62's.
They're BIG! The DC3 120+lb.
Mind you, they're crusers, not performance night fighters.
Got to say... I like the nose whiskers, damed inpractical from a hanger/landing/pits rash point of view but they are so much a part of the aircrafts charactor IMO.
Post pictures as the biuld comences.


LAWNDART65 09-08-2010 09:13 AM

RE: 120-inch Focke Wulf Ta-154 build.
 
Talk to Gene Barton about landing gear.

Evil_Merlin 09-08-2010 10:12 AM

RE: 120-inch Focke Wulf Ta-154 build.
 
I have the plans for the 80ish inch Ta-154. As it is desgined its a rather unusual build using mostly foam for the fuse shaping.

Other than the Fw 190 and its spawns, the Ta-154 is one of my personal favorites and one of the best looking planes of the War.


And yes, I think, having the wing break after the engine nacelle is a good thing!

G-Pete 09-08-2010 10:41 AM

RE: 120-inch Focke Wulf Ta-154 build.
 
1 Attachment(s)
Nice project.
If you like take the wings off for transport I suggest to part them after the nacelles outboard 0.5 inch. That leaves you with around 49 inches of airframe without wings. There are only two wires to connect, ailerons and flaps.
The nacelles are very long, keep your fuel tanks as close as possible to the CG. Keep in mind a small gas engine can pump gas 2 feet vertical without problem. The DLE's are good for a 21 inch 3-blade.
With the retracts going aft, you need to balance the airplane with the landing gear down.
The front wheel looks more like 4.5 inches.

Yep nice project - looking forward to see that build here (pictures - lots of them;))
Click the picture below...

Sessholvlaru 09-08-2010 11:41 AM

RE: 120-inch Focke Wulf Ta-154 build.
 
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Thanks for all the suggestions. I will contact Gene Barton about gear.

Yeah I figure twin 55's would rock this thing and like G-Pete pointed out, they would swing near scale diameter props. That would be cool. That DC-3 is huuuuge!

Thanks for that drawing G-Pete. The nosewheel is 4 inches on my plan, but the V1 had a different nose strut than later models like the one you show. The V1 had a plain straight fork, while later Ta-154's had a castoring nosewheel which sat ahead of the strut. However, the gear on my plans is not true scale since the plane was designed without retracts and the gear made from aluminum tubes. I will need to cross check more three views to make sure the size is correct.

So any guesses on the weight on a twin this size? I have never built anything this big, but my guess is 45-50 pounds. If that is the case, each DLE 55 puts out ~30 pounds of thrust.

Here are two pics of the different nose gear configurations.

Sessholvlaru 09-08-2010 11:50 AM

RE: 120-inch Focke Wulf Ta-154 build.
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: G-Pete

With the retracts going aft, you need to balance the airplane with the landing gear down.

Why would I want to do this? I would want to balance it with the gear up in its flight configuration. Balancing with the gear down would mean a substantial aft c.g. shift on gear retraction, no? Also the nose gear retracts forward, so this will help somewhat.

G-Pete 09-08-2010 12:40 PM

RE: 120-inch Focke Wulf Ta-154 build.
 
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Good question here the answer:
If you balance your airplane with the LG up, your CG moves forward with the LG extended. That creates a "nose heavy" situation, your rudder and elevators are less effective as they need to be. That results in a swirly landing, you want your CG as perfect as can be at landing/takeoff.

With other words, there are no surprises at first takeoff or landing;)

Sessholvlaru 09-08-2010 12:42 PM

RE: 120-inch Focke Wulf Ta-154 build.
 
Alright, I understand your logic.

F4u5 09-08-2010 01:10 PM

RE: 120-inch Focke Wulf Ta-154 build.
 
Best bet with gaer that go aft is to balance the plane with one gear up and one gear down...I have found this to work best. You get no signifcant shift in either direction. Agree or not, I have always done it.

Jeff

IL2windhawk 09-08-2010 01:35 PM

RE: 120-inch Focke Wulf Ta-154 build.
 
Quote:

ORIGINAL: F4u5

Best bet with gaer that go aft is to balance the plane with one gear up and one gear down...I have found this to work best. You get no signifcant shift in either direction. Agree or not, I have always done it.

Jeff
That's very clever...

Greatly looking forward to this build~!

David Bathe 09-08-2010 01:36 PM

RE: 120-inch Focke Wulf Ta-154 build.
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: F4u5

Best bet with gaer that go aft is to balance the plane with one gear up and one gear down...I have found this to work best. You get no signifcant shift in either direction. Agree or not, I have always done it.

Jeff
Now that's smart!http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f.../msn/49_49.gif
<br type="_moz" />

G-Pete 09-08-2010 01:38 PM

RE: 120-inch Focke Wulf Ta-154 build.
 
Quote:

ORIGINAL: F4u5
Best bet with gaer that go aft is to balance the plane with one gear up and one gear down...I have found this to work best. You get no signifcant shift in either direction. Agree or not, I have always done it.
Jeff
So, nose gear half up?

Sessholvlaru 09-08-2010 01:46 PM

RE: 120-inch Focke Wulf Ta-154 build.
 
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Well to begin this build I will be starting out on the horizontal stab to get my feet wet. It will need some engineering and I would love some suggestions. In the original plan (again, it was only 70" then) the stabs are two halves held together in the fuse with a rubber band and some eye hooks. Obviously not going to work on this monster.

My options are to either A) build it as one piece and make it permanent or B) keep it in halves. Plan A makes transportation more difficult but field assembly quicker. My worry with plan B is keeping the attachment points hidden. It will be getting one servo per half either way.

My 50cc OMP Yak 55 has a two piece stab with a CF tube. The stabs attach at the fuse with machine screws as the root ribs have tabs. This is a neat system, but you are left with exposed screws.

The total span of the horizontal stab is 44 inches. Attached is a pic of the Yak's setup. Guess there will be no hiding linkages...

Sessholvlaru 09-08-2010 01:56 PM

RE: 120-inch Focke Wulf Ta-154 build.
 
1 Attachment(s)
FYI I know the geometry is off in that pic, I changed those arms out for shorter ones before I finished the Yak. This is what the original design looks like. Another possibility is to put the elevator servos into the fuse and run pushrods. Any good ideas on how to keep all this concealed?

G-Pete 09-08-2010 02:38 PM

RE: 120-inch Focke Wulf Ta-154 build.
 
May a little math helps - F = (W x X)/L -
Let's say you put 3 servos in the back, plus mounting brackets that's about 8oz. To counter balance @ your cockpit area you need 21oz of weight.
Now you know why so many need to put the push rods in....

F4u5 09-08-2010 02:47 PM

RE: 120-inch Focke Wulf Ta-154 build.
 
Not sure on that part Pete....typically I have tail draggers only, so have no experience to speak of with trike gear. Since the nose gear on a trike tend to sit far forward of the CG, when compared with the mains (usually aft on trike), it may not really matter that much if up or down, or half as you say (but I like the idea). Typically the nose wheel will be much daintier in soze as compared to the mains, so maybe leaving it down would work best. But I would always work CG with mains split...It was very beneficial on that 13 foot Corsair and 10 foot P-40 that I have. The first time I balanced them with gear up, but got a dramatic CG shift with the wheels retracted, especially on the Corsair with two 4.5 pound wheels.

P.S. I like the 154 and He219[8D]

Jeff

TimT2000 09-08-2010 10:18 PM

RE: 120-inch Focke Wulf Ta-154 build.
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: LAWNDART65

Talk to Gene Barton about landing gear.

Wow what a small world, I was just at Gene's house tonight. He is still making gear and
just finished a set for Joe's big P-38. He did mention tryingto get out of the tricycle gear
business. Idono. He offered to sell me his D-18 that he won so many awards with. If you
would like, I can tell him about your project.

cheers
Tim

Sessholvlaru 09-08-2010 10:20 PM

RE: 120-inch Focke Wulf Ta-154 build.
 
Sure, it couldn't hurt. I will need them made eventually and I would appreciate the help. Thanks!

Sessholvlaru 09-08-2010 11:18 PM

RE: 120-inch Focke Wulf Ta-154 build.
 
Well after some more research I see that the elevators were indeed fabric covered. My original plan had solid balsa elevators, so new ones will be built up. I will use a plywood outline with half ribs. Hinges will be scale. I am still not sure whether or not I will be able to get away with removable stabs or not.

LAWNDART65 09-08-2010 11:55 PM

RE: 120-inch Focke Wulf Ta-154 build.
 
Gene does nice work!!! That would be my choice. He is doing a set of 1/4 scale Jap Raiden gear that will be a kit for me. They are on there way! cant wait to see!! John

Sessholvlaru 09-09-2010 12:01 AM

RE: 120-inch Focke Wulf Ta-154 build.
 
Where did you get that Raiden kit? I've always wanted one.

G-Pete 09-09-2010 07:12 AM

RE: 120-inch Focke Wulf Ta-154 build.
 
Quote:

ORIGINAL: Sessholvlaru
Well after some more research I see that the elevators were indeed fabric covered. My original plan had solid balsa elevators, so new ones will be built up. I will use a plywood outline with half ribs. Hinges will be scale. I am still not sure whether or not I will be able to get away with removable stabs or not.
Fabric skin or not - you can build that with the balsa skin and finish with a fabric not with fiber glass. This keeps the scale appearance...


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