RC square-rigger, 1:96 scale USS Constitution
04-03-2011, 03:05 PM
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RC square-rigger, 1:96 scale USS Constitution
Hi all,
I am converting a 1:96 scale plastic USS Constitution for square-rigged RC sailing. I have never sailed an RC sailing ship before, but I have operated small sailboats, and have extensive experience building RC combat warships (yes, the fighting kind). I've been researching RC and free-sailing square-riggers for years, and have finally begun construction of my own. This project is intended as a low-budget learning experience before I scratch-build a much larger sailing vessel and fully outfit it for RC warship combat.
A few features of this build:
Standoff scale: as a learning project, my goal is not museum-piece quality, but functionality. This ship will look good when standing 10 feet away, not when examined with a magnifying glass.
rotating carbon fiber masts: since the original plastic masts were far too flimsy, I am replacing them with carbon fiber tube. To keep topweight down on this small model, I will rotate the entire masts, rather than having each spar move separately.
four-channel operation. One channel for rudder, one channel for the foremast, one channel for main and mizzen, and one reserved for port and starboard guns. Working guns will not be installed in this model, as it is too small, but I will plan my control scheme as though I have them.
foam-filled hull: since this is just a learning project and not a full combat ship, it does not need to be penetrable or sinkable. Once it is complete, I will fill the lower hull with foam to make sure it never sinks.
extended keel and oversize rudder: I have read that RC square-riggers don't work well if you stay perfectly scale, so I will be trying out a number of different combinations of keels and rudders to find out what works best.
4lb10oz displacement to scale waterline. About half of this will be lead on the bottom of the extended keel, for stability. Currently weight is about 1lb for hull, masts, and 3 standard-sized servos. I still need to add yards, sails, rigging, receiver, and battery.
At this point in time, the masts are almost done, and I am about to start on the yards. since I am a newcomer to RC sail, however, I do have a number of questions.
1) What material should I use for sails? I was thinking the material used to make kites would work well, but I have no idea where to get it. I was also considering cutting up some old (but still nice) white bedsheets, if I cannot find anything else.
2) How do I attach the sails to the yards? Keep in mind that I would like the option of removing sails on particularly windy days. Somehow, I don't think superglue is a good idea...
3) How important is it to control the fore-and-aft sails? I was planning to set these on shore rather than RC them, to avoid control overload in the middle of combat. If necessary, I can run all the square sails from one servo and the fore-and-aft from the other.
4) how strong of servos will I need to control the sails? I have seen photos of larger square-riggers using micro servos to control the sails, so I am hoping my cheapie HS-311 standard servos will work once I waterproof them.
I am converting a 1:96 scale plastic USS Constitution for square-rigged RC sailing. I have never sailed an RC sailing ship before, but I have operated small sailboats, and have extensive experience building RC combat warships (yes, the fighting kind). I've been researching RC and free-sailing square-riggers for years, and have finally begun construction of my own. This project is intended as a low-budget learning experience before I scratch-build a much larger sailing vessel and fully outfit it for RC warship combat.
A few features of this build:
Standoff scale: as a learning project, my goal is not museum-piece quality, but functionality. This ship will look good when standing 10 feet away, not when examined with a magnifying glass.
rotating carbon fiber masts: since the original plastic masts were far too flimsy, I am replacing them with carbon fiber tube. To keep topweight down on this small model, I will rotate the entire masts, rather than having each spar move separately.
four-channel operation. One channel for rudder, one channel for the foremast, one channel for main and mizzen, and one reserved for port and starboard guns. Working guns will not be installed in this model, as it is too small, but I will plan my control scheme as though I have them.
foam-filled hull: since this is just a learning project and not a full combat ship, it does not need to be penetrable or sinkable. Once it is complete, I will fill the lower hull with foam to make sure it never sinks.
extended keel and oversize rudder: I have read that RC square-riggers don't work well if you stay perfectly scale, so I will be trying out a number of different combinations of keels and rudders to find out what works best.
4lb10oz displacement to scale waterline. About half of this will be lead on the bottom of the extended keel, for stability. Currently weight is about 1lb for hull, masts, and 3 standard-sized servos. I still need to add yards, sails, rigging, receiver, and battery.
At this point in time, the masts are almost done, and I am about to start on the yards. since I am a newcomer to RC sail, however, I do have a number of questions.
1) What material should I use for sails? I was thinking the material used to make kites would work well, but I have no idea where to get it. I was also considering cutting up some old (but still nice) white bedsheets, if I cannot find anything else.
2) How do I attach the sails to the yards? Keep in mind that I would like the option of removing sails on particularly windy days. Somehow, I don't think superglue is a good idea...
3) How important is it to control the fore-and-aft sails? I was planning to set these on shore rather than RC them, to avoid control overload in the middle of combat. If necessary, I can run all the square sails from one servo and the fore-and-aft from the other.
4) how strong of servos will I need to control the sails? I have seen photos of larger square-riggers using micro servos to control the sails, so I am hoping my cheapie HS-311 standard servos will work once I waterproof them.
04-18-2011, 09:45 AM
#2
RE: RC square-rigger, 1:96 scale USS Constitution
Cool project a lot to fit in that small package but I wanna see it done!
For sailcloth, there is (or at least used to be) lightweight (3/4oz) dacron that's great for models. I don't live within a hundred miles of the nearest sail maker, so that kind of stuff is hard to come by here. Another decent choice is Tyvek. It's light and it's made of bonded spun polyester fiber, so it's very tough and easy to sew.
I hadn't though to look at how people attach square sails, but I'd think that something similar to full size practice COULD do the trick an eyelet/cringle every so often along the head of the sail and bind it to the yard with the same kind of stuff you use for sheets. I'd try it with a single piece of line running the whole length of the head rather than the individual piece for each cringle on a full sized sail. But then, there may be better ways than what I'm thinking, too.
The ship rigged models I've seen weren't trimming both square sails and fore-and-aft sails... but that doesn't mean it couldn't or shouldn't be done. I'd think it could be quite a challenge in the amount of space you'll have. I'd love to see how it all turns out. Not sure if the standard servos will pull it all I'm guessing maybe 500 or 600 squinches on the square courses, but it should be a somewhat balanced (I think) so it might just work. They're mighty low priced and later you can go to at least 3 or 4 times as much strength in the same footprint if you try them and they doin't work out.
Meanwhile, not really wanting to start off on a tangent, but you wouldn't happen to have a set of lines for a 3-island tramp would you?
For sailcloth, there is (or at least used to be) lightweight (3/4oz) dacron that's great for models. I don't live within a hundred miles of the nearest sail maker, so that kind of stuff is hard to come by here. Another decent choice is Tyvek. It's light and it's made of bonded spun polyester fiber, so it's very tough and easy to sew.
I hadn't though to look at how people attach square sails, but I'd think that something similar to full size practice COULD do the trick an eyelet/cringle every so often along the head of the sail and bind it to the yard with the same kind of stuff you use for sheets. I'd try it with a single piece of line running the whole length of the head rather than the individual piece for each cringle on a full sized sail. But then, there may be better ways than what I'm thinking, too.
The ship rigged models I've seen weren't trimming both square sails and fore-and-aft sails... but that doesn't mean it couldn't or shouldn't be done. I'd think it could be quite a challenge in the amount of space you'll have. I'd love to see how it all turns out. Not sure if the standard servos will pull it all I'm guessing maybe 500 or 600 squinches on the square courses, but it should be a somewhat balanced (I think) so it might just work. They're mighty low priced and later you can go to at least 3 or 4 times as much strength in the same footprint if you try them and they doin't work out.
Meanwhile, not really wanting to start off on a tangent, but you wouldn't happen to have a set of lines for a 3-island tramp would you?
04-21-2011, 07:59 PM
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RE: RC square-rigger, 1:96 scale USS Constitution
Hi Al Stein,
lack of activity in this thread has mostly lead me to abandon it, but thanks to another forum with a dedicated group of square-rigger sailors, I got my project up and running. It is now commissioned as the Moby Duck.
Under advice from other square-rigger sailors, I switched from rotating masts to rotating yards on screw eyes. This allows me to easily remove sails when the wind picks up. Sails are Tyvek hot-glued to the upper yards, and tied to the lower yards. I found that the standard servos work just fine, since the force of the wind on the square sails almost entirely balances out. One of the other sailors pointed out a brilliant method for linking the fore and aft sails to the same servos as the square sails. I am currently in the process of implementing it. The jibs are hooked up, we'll see if I have enough time to do the spanker before going sailing tomorrow. My usual pond for sea trials with my electric models has incredibly inconsistent winds, ranging from nothing to lee-rail-under to all-sails-backed in seconds, so I'm ranging farther afield tomorrow in search of a sailing pond.
[link=http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h237/kotori87/IMG_0533.jpg]Moby Duck after the hike back from her maiden voyage[/link]. (Rookie sailor + untested ship) X (square-rigger) = [:-][X(][:@][:'(]
[link=http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h237/kotori87/IMG_3420.jpg]Exploring the local park pond on her third voyage[/link]. Doing better, but topsails and topgallants alone isn't an ideal rig.
[link=http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h237/kotori87/IMG_3430.jpg]On the shelf, showing off her almost-finished sails[/link]. Notice the tape temporarily holding the sails in place. Courses, jibs, and spanker help a lot, and royals look cool in light winds.
[link=http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h237/kotori87/IMG_3440.jpg]heading up the mighty Stephens Creek[/link]
[link=http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h237/kotori87/IMG_3445.jpg]Square-riggers have an aesthetic all on their own[/link]. Isn't she a beauty?
[link=http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h237/kotori87/IMG_3446.jpg]riding at anchor in an eddy[/link]
[link=http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h237/kotori87/IMG_3451.jpg]We can't go any further, Cap'n![/link] It's too dangerous!
lack of activity in this thread has mostly lead me to abandon it, but thanks to another forum with a dedicated group of square-rigger sailors, I got my project up and running. It is now commissioned as the Moby Duck.
Under advice from other square-rigger sailors, I switched from rotating masts to rotating yards on screw eyes. This allows me to easily remove sails when the wind picks up. Sails are Tyvek hot-glued to the upper yards, and tied to the lower yards. I found that the standard servos work just fine, since the force of the wind on the square sails almost entirely balances out. One of the other sailors pointed out a brilliant method for linking the fore and aft sails to the same servos as the square sails. I am currently in the process of implementing it. The jibs are hooked up, we'll see if I have enough time to do the spanker before going sailing tomorrow. My usual pond for sea trials with my electric models has incredibly inconsistent winds, ranging from nothing to lee-rail-under to all-sails-backed in seconds, so I'm ranging farther afield tomorrow in search of a sailing pond.
[link=http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h237/kotori87/IMG_0533.jpg]Moby Duck after the hike back from her maiden voyage[/link]. (Rookie sailor + untested ship) X (square-rigger) = [:-][X(][:@][:'(]
[link=http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h237/kotori87/IMG_3420.jpg]Exploring the local park pond on her third voyage[/link]. Doing better, but topsails and topgallants alone isn't an ideal rig.
[link=http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h237/kotori87/IMG_3430.jpg]On the shelf, showing off her almost-finished sails[/link]. Notice the tape temporarily holding the sails in place. Courses, jibs, and spanker help a lot, and royals look cool in light winds.
[link=http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h237/kotori87/IMG_3440.jpg]heading up the mighty Stephens Creek[/link]
[link=http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h237/kotori87/IMG_3445.jpg]Square-riggers have an aesthetic all on their own[/link]. Isn't she a beauty?
[link=http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h237/kotori87/IMG_3446.jpg]riding at anchor in an eddy[/link]
[link=http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h237/kotori87/IMG_3451.jpg]We can't go any further, Cap'n![/link] It's too dangerous!
04-22-2011, 02:53 AM
#4
RE: RC square-rigger, 1:96 scale USS Constitution
That's super she really looks great on the water!
Since you mentioned another forum venue, I did a quick search on Moby Duck and found you over there... I'll have to check out the activity and see what other wisdom's been layed out in the process... A next project or sometime-after-next for me is a Baltimore Clipper and the pictures are getting me fired up to work on the drawings and stuff for that again!
Since you mentioned another forum venue, I did a quick search on Moby Duck and found you over there... I'll have to check out the activity and see what other wisdom's been layed out in the process... A next project or sometime-after-next for me is a Baltimore Clipper and the pictures are getting me fired up to work on the drawings and stuff for that again!
08-06-2011, 08:58 AM
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RE: RC square-rigger, 1:96 scale USS Constitution
ORIGINAL: kotori
This project is intended as a low-budget learning experience before I scratch-build a much larger sailing vessel and fully outfit it for RC warship combat.
This project is intended as a low-budget learning experience before I scratch-build a much larger sailing vessel and fully outfit it for RC warship combat.
Add something to generate smoke as well... Remember that opening chapter of Beau Geste? They did this with (black powder) pistol barrels on scale sailing ships.. and the narrator ended up with a pistol ball in his leg.
1) What material should I use for sails? I was thinking the material used to make kites would work well, but I have no idea where to get it. I was also considering cutting up some old (but still nice) white bedsheets, if I cannot find anything else.
All sorts of kite maker suppliers online these days. Not only a good source of fabric, but material for masts and spars as well. And yarn for rigging.
Check out:
http://www.kitebuilder.com/catalog/i...2073b1f6c5e957
Ripstop nylon and dacron, but also, more interestingly, reinforced mylar. I've seen the latter used on competition model yachts. Orcon-36 sounds like what you want, it's translucent white to boot:
http://www.kitebuilder.com/catalog/p...2073b1f6c5e957
Iskandar
01-17-2012, 08:05 PM
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RE: RC square-rigger, 1:96 scale USS Constitution
Got a special treat for you guys!
http://youtu.be/j8ZcxjiH8ys
HMS Victory encounters the frigate USS Constitution in open waters near
Charleston, SC. Captain My Brother is unprepared for the assault and attempts to
retreat, leading Admiral Me on a long and harrowing chase. He will brave any
danger to escape, even... the Far Side of the Pond...
And then, later on...
http://youtu.be/-wxbU0j-czg
You stuck your WHAT? in WHERE!?
USS Constitution gets a little too close to HMS Victory and gets her bowsprit
stuck in Victory's spanker. To get out of trouble, she demonstrates a
capability unique to square-riggers among all sail-powered ships: the ability to
back up under sail power only; a difficult maneuver that was performed by the
historical USS Constitution in battle, as well.
http://youtu.be/j8ZcxjiH8ys
HMS Victory encounters the frigate USS Constitution in open waters near
Charleston, SC. Captain My Brother is unprepared for the assault and attempts to
retreat, leading Admiral Me on a long and harrowing chase. He will brave any
danger to escape, even... the Far Side of the Pond...
And then, later on...
http://youtu.be/-wxbU0j-czg
You stuck your WHAT? in WHERE!?
USS Constitution gets a little too close to HMS Victory and gets her bowsprit
stuck in Victory's spanker. To get out of trouble, she demonstrates a
capability unique to square-riggers among all sail-powered ships: the ability to
back up under sail power only; a difficult maneuver that was performed by the
historical USS Constitution in battle, as well.
