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  1. #1

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    do you think i should give nitro a try?

    well heres what i was thinking

    What i like:
    yes i may be kind of weird for liking this but, i like exhaust/smoke
    i like the sound of an engine
    i like refueling things

    what i don't like:
    i don't like taking apart engines and the such
    i don't like tinkering/tuning all the time; maybe one in a while
    nitro fuel cost $30 per gallon

    so im leaning towards i shouldn't give nitro a try. what do you guys think?

  2. #2

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    RE: do you think i should give nitro a try?

    you have to tune them ALL the time. engines require constant upkeep. and the vehicles are ALWAYS getting dirty. i'd stick to electric.

    On top of it all, there are so many engine manufacturers that have low quality control. people these days go for the cheapest thing they can get their hands on... almost always, those engines are rubbish.

  3. #3

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    RE: do you think i should give nitro a try?

    yeah i will stick with electric....as for my liking of exhaust (i don't like breathing it, just giving it off in the atmosphere, yes im weird) i will get a honda crf50f dirt bike

  4. #4
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    RE: do you think i should give nitro a try?

    You should have gone with a nitro savage or LST.
    Tornado buggy, HPI Savage X 4.6 FOR THE WIN.

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    RE: do you think i should give nitro a try?


    ORIGINAL: cswtornado

    You should have gone with a nitro savage or LST.
    Since he's asking for advice over here in the Redcat section I would say go for a Redcat Avalanche XP or Monsoon.
    I always tell the truth. Even when I lie. Al Pacino (Scarface 1983)

  6. #6
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    RE: do you think i should give nitro a try?

    As long as it comes with an LRP .28 I'll be good with the Redcats
    (LRP .28 = SH .28 with 6 ports)

    Tornado buggy, HPI Savage X 4.6 FOR THE WIN.

  7. #7

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    RE: do you think i should give nitro a try?

    yeah idk im going to pass on nitro. im not a tuning/tinkering person.

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    RE: do you think i should give nitro a try?

    For me tinkering and tuning is just part of the enjoyment, although sometimes frustrating.....! but a Nitro is more trouble than just plugging in a battery and go play and them dust the vehicle off and your pretty much done............nothing wrong with that at all if thats all someone wants to do,some of us dolike to be more involved and dont mind the Nitro's extra mait.efforts.

    Many of us have been wrench turners for many years and can have one tuned and ready to roll in a couple of minutes so we dont mind it, but like you said if the tuning is something you're not into then for sure go or stay electric this way you will avoid the tuning but if you run the vehicles much at all I dont know how you will ever avoid the tinkering thats about as much apart of this Hobby as the playing is from my experience.

    Which ever you do, I know all of us on here wish you the best of luck....just have fun the way you like to do it reguardless how anyone else does, thats the important thing.......and that's what the hobby is all about.

    Peace
    Welfare to the able bodied is like giving shelled nuts to a squirrel, he gets lazy & soon looses will to provide for himself!

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    RE: do you think i should give nitro a try?

    okay thanks. i guess i will stick with electric.

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    RE: do you think i should give nitro a try?

    I have a couple of electric and a couple of nitro. Latest addition was the Avalanche XP. I enjoy the ease of the electric, plug and play so to speak, but no matter how fast they are there is nothing like squezing the trigger and seeing the Avalanche scream to life. That nitro sound, the smell of exhuast and the faint trail of smoke that she leaves as she barrels across the park... it just makes it feel less like a toy.
    Don't get me wrong, I love the electric ones too, but the whimpy little whir of an electric motor just doesn't envoke the same feelings as the scream of a nitro engine. As for tunning, it's not really that difficult. The thing only has three screws on the carb to adjust and one of those is best left alone. Yes, Nitro is like $30/gallon, but it last for a while.

    My other nitro car is a Redcat Shockwave. It is getting an engine transplant this weekend. Bumping it up from the VX 16 to a SH 18 and upgrading the single speed tranny to a two speed. Can't wait to get that broken in.
    I guess part of the appeal of nitro for me is the tinkering... but I tinker with my electrics as well. I think the only on my Df02 chassis that is original is the gears and the lower A arms and my old Kyosho is getting a whole new custom made aluminum chassis.

    I agree with the recomendation of the Avalanche or Monsoon, from what I see of my new Avalanche the thing is tough as nails. I know my little 1/10 electrics would have come home last Saturday with something cracked or missing if I would have run them the way I was running the Avalanche.

    Not to mention, she just looks bad ass...


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    RE: do you think i should give nitro a try?

    well what i heard was you need to take the engine apart and clean it every 5 gallons?

  12. #12
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    RE: do you think i should give nitro a try?

    ORIGINAL: jigawatt

    you have to tune them ALL the time.
    Total bollocks. I don't have to tune my engine but twice a year. A good engine will hold it's tune well, only a poor quality or neglected engine will require constant adjustment.

    . engines require constant upkeep.
    Hrm....Air filter every five tanks....chisel the nitro mud off the block once a month....that sums up the maintenance I have to give my nitros. They run great, by the way.

    and the vehicles are ALWAYS getting dirty.
    So do electrics. Getting dirty is a sign you're having fun.


    On top of it all, there are so many engine manufacturers that have low quality control. people these days go for the cheapest thing they can get their hands on... almost always, those engines are rubbish.
    That's why you don't buy a chinese engine. Or any RTR using one. Lemme break down how the brand name RTR engines fair.

    AE's engines are made by Thunder Tiger. TT has been giving OS hell for years in the aircraft side, so it stands to reason their car engines are reliable.

    HPI's engines are done in-house AFAIK. I haven't heard of anyone saying "BAh this HPI engine blew up it sucks" and having three pages of people nodding accordingly.

    Traxxas...well okay their engines are unstable pieces of junk. TRX 2.5s and 3.3s can be made to work, and when coerced they do make quite a bit of power, but if you can get one of these things to hold a tune and last long you aren't going to be a newbie asking for such advice in the first place. Either that or you have an old Pro .15, in which case it's just a weak-kneed paperweight.

    Losi's engines are also quite reliable. People are putting the same engines they have in their RTRs in other trucks as replacements. They can't be that bad.

    ORIGINAL: electricrc68

    well what i heard was you need to take the engine apart and clean it every 5 gallons?
    No, you don't...okay lemme try to set everything straight here. There seems to be a ton of misinformation floating around the Redcat forums about nitro. Now I know why I don't float over this way very often...

    First of all, with nitro, you get what you pay for. There's no such thing as a cheap nitro. These engines can be as reliable as a Honda Civic or as touchy as a PMSing supermodel. 25% of that is maintenance. 25% of that is tuning. 50% of that is the quality of the engine. IF you buy a cheap knockoff chinese engine you will have to rebuild it frequently. You buy a quality, well designed Japanese, Italian or American engine and it will be quite reliable. But even that cheap knockoff chinese engine will run okay if you know what you're doing and treat it right, and those pricey, well built engines will become cantankerous piles of junk if you neglect them. If you really want a painless, "Gee this is just as simple as brushless" experience with Nitro, you first need to get a good, high quality engine, then you need to take care of it. Which, as I'm about to point out, is incredibly easy.


    Here's my typical session schedule when I go to run one of my cars.

    1: Radio check
    2: add fuel
    3: prime engine
    4: Verify glow ignitor is working
    5: final radio check
    6: Start engine
    7: This is the fun bit. Just imagine an hour of shenanigans involving donuts, drifts and speed runs here. And a few barrel rolls, because I crash a lot.
    8: Run the engine out of fuel, either by pinching the line or just simply running the tank dry.
    9: Shut radio gear off
    10: Bring it in, put the misc supplies away, set the car on a paper towel so the oil drips don't stain my bed.
    11: go watch Top Gear. Or maybe start GTA: San Andreas. Or come on here and set some people straight. Who knows.


    My between runs service looks like this:

    1: Is anything broken? No? Sweet.
    2: Clean and re-oil the air filter.
    3: Scrape the dirt off the side of the engine if applicable.
    4. Swap Rx duracells if previous run showed low power.
    5. Refill fuel bottle.


    Major bi-monthly services include:

    1: Check all fasteners. Tighten loose ones.
    2: Inspect moving joints, bearings and brakes
    3: Inspect servos
    4: major chassis cleaning
    5: Pull the glow plug and see what it looks like


    As you can see, nitro is no harder to maintain than electric. Every single maintenance thing I do has a parallel on an electric car. For example, in my between runs service, for item 2 you could replace air filter with ESC heatsink. And remove the oil part. Item 3 of this same list doesn't even change the device it's servicing, just swap "engine" for "motor". I have a feeling electric motors don't like being coated in half of Tennessee any more than glow engines do. Item 5 is replaced with "Recharge battery pack" for an electric. Or Item 5 of my bi-monthly service could be replaced with pulling the motor and either checking/replacing/lubing the bearings if BL, or checking the brushes as well if not. Item 2 can simply omit brakes unless you converted a nitro using one of the older kits that maintained the mechanical brakes(Or opted to do so on a newer conversion). So anyone who's going "BAAAWWWWW NITRO IS HARD TO MAINTAIN" is either A: Mechanically inept, B: lazy, or C: A fanboy.


    Now as for engine life, I'm going to assume we're discussing a modern, well built engine that's well maintained.


    These engines are incredibly simple. They have less moving parts than you have fingers. Their ignition system is entirely automatic. There isn't really much to go wrong in there, and when it does, it's not hard to figure out why and correct the issue. A typical engine lifespan is anywhere from 6-12 gallons for a well cared for engine. Well made ones, such as my OS .18 CV-RX, will trend towards the upper end of the spectrum. A few have even blasted past 12 gallons like it was their fifth tank! If you take good care of your engine you will never have to crack it open until the day it loses enough compression to not run anymore.


    Now, because of their simplicity, if they A: Have a functional, lit glow plug, B: Are mechanically sound and C: Have a suitable air/fuel mixture, they will run. 9 times out of 10 an engine that fails to start is because the glow plug isn't working, and the other 1 time is usually the carb being out of whack. Of the 9 times the plug isn't working, 7 of those are usually just a discharged or malfunctioning glow ignitor. The other two times are actually the plug itself, which you should always have at least one good spare of since they're considered consumables anyways. It's rare that an engine crops up with a no-start that can be traced to item B up there, mostly because by that time the engine's so down on power when it is running that a worn piston/sleeve is already a known fact. Fixing that isn't exactly difficult, either. Usually eight(12 for engines with an on-board starter) screws are all that's keeping that worn out engine from being rebuilt. You can literally get one apart during one average commercial break and have it back together again before the next one.


    If you buy a well-built nitro and take good care of it you will have years of fun and get many gallons of life out of the engine. Buy a cheap knockoff, or even sometimes a well built but used one, and you'll be wondering what us nitro nuts see in these little things.
    My stash:
    1 rally modded NTC3, 1 HeliMax Axe CX Nano, 1 Hobbico NexSTAR.

  13. #13

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    RE: do you think i should give nitro a try?

    First I have heard of that.

    The Avalanche XP uses an SH.28, it may not be the best engine around but from what I have seen it will do just fine for my needs. And when it does wear out... as they all do... Redcat will replace it for %50 of the cost of a new engine. And I know for a fact that they stand behind their claims to do so. The SH.18 that I am dropping in the Shockwave is an upgrade that I purchased from them as part of thier lifetime engine swap program... with no hassle. They have impressed me greatly with thier customer service. They allowed me to swap the engine for a bigger, newer model for a car that was given to me, and they did so with nothing more than a single email to them. They responded within hours and I had the new engine in a matter of days.

    Haters can say what they want, but unless you have had one then you don't know what you are talking about. I got the Avalanche with radio and starter kit for under $300 with free shipping, and it arived four days after I ordered it. And so far I am happy with it, much happier than I would be if I had spent $500 on a Traxxas that sat at home because I was afraid of breaking it due to it's high cost.

  14. #14
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    RE: do you think i should give nitro a try?

    Yeah you should not give nitro a try. Tuning is part of the fun!
    Nitro sport/slash MMP with tacon 4200kv.

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    RE: do you think i should give nitro a try?

    It's just like real cars, you have those that just enjoy driving them, then you have those enjoy building/fixing/modding and driving them.

    One of the things I like best about RC is the tinkering. I don't leave anything bone stock.

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    RE: do you think i should give nitro a try?

    Quote: That's why you don't buy a chinese engine. Or any RTR using one. (378)


    Quote: Traxxas...well okay their engines are unstable pieces of junk. TRX 2.5s and 3.3s can be made to work, and when coerced they do make quite a bit of power, but if you can get one of these things to hold a tune and last long you aren't going to be a newbie asking for such advice in the first place. Either that or you have an old Pro .15, in which case it's just a weak-kneed paperweight. (378)

    Man why all the hating on the cheaper engines like the SH & Traxxas?

    Many of us here have them and have very good reliability and get lots of life and lots of enjoyments from these engines........ I have a buggy with the SH .21 holds tune well and runs great I also have 2 Stadium Trucks with the little Pro .15 engines and they also hold a tune well and are plenty of motor for those trucks, yeah they dont do wheelies or go 60 MPH but fro a lot of people they dont have too in order to be fun.... I have a blast with mine and they all run great......

    Igood friend of mine has been into RC planes for 35+ years and swears he has a few of the cheaper Asian madeengines that well out perform some of his pricier engines, I know this isn't always the case but the average backyard basher doesn't need a $300 - $500 engine IMO to have fairlytrouble free fun with their vehicle.

    Thats the great thing about the Redcat RacingVehicles........we can have a dang good time with for amoderate price tag, everything doesnt have to be high dollar ( so called better stuff ) inorder to be good enough to provide lots of enjoyment.

    I dont have a problem with someone spending whatever they feel they can or must onanything, but a really take offense to the statements some always seem to make about everythingbut the (Top of the Line stuff)being junk that aint worth having........ I have some of this so called junk and it works great for me and I know this is also true for a butt load of others on here...........!

    Heck, on this Redcat Racing thread most of us have the " JUNK " engines and we like-em just fine and have a lot of fun with them, I say go promote your pricey stuff somewhere else were there are other Redcat haters who want to bash our stuff.............!

    Peace!
    Welfare to the able bodied is like giving shelled nuts to a squirrel, he gets lazy & soon looses will to provide for himself!

  17. #17

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    RE: do you think i should give nitro a try?

    idk if i want to try nitro. i just like to see the exhaust and hear the engine and stuff sooooo bad but idk if im willing to be tuning, and all that other stuff that goes on with nitro

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    RE: do you think i should give nitro a try?

    well if you ever do decide to give it a try you can get your feet wet with something like a Shockwave for as cheep as $120, that includes everything you need except the fuel. Not the greatest car in the world but it will give you a feel for nitro.

  19. #19
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    RE: do you think i should give nitro a try?


    ORIGINAL: electricrc68

    idk if i want to try nitro. i just like to see the exhaust and hear the engine and stuff sooooo bad but idk if im willing to be tuning, and all that other stuff that goes on with nitro
    It's really not that different, and it's not difficult at all.
    ORIGINAL: 1ofmyfuns

    Man why all the hating on the cheaper engines like the SH & Traxxas?
    I've had one myself. Specifically, a CEN NT-16. It made it a whopping two gallons before the crankshaft snapped between the flywheel and the drive washer. Before that it literally spat the glow plug out of the head on me. Oh, and it took me three months to get the ******* started for the first time because, being a 100% newbie, I had no idea that you were supposed to lean the HSN 1/4 a turn if it just floods out every try. The manual never stated that, either. It wasn't until I got fed up and post on a forum somewhere that someone mentioned it, I did it, and bam it came to life. Not only that, but over the years I've seen thread after thread about other NT-16s doing the same thing. Some snapped rods. Some cracked blocks. Some had massive air leaks. Some just plain wouldn't run. Mine was apparently a lucky one.

    I've also read countless stories about TRX 2.5s and 3.3s shattering rods during the break-in specified in the manual. Hell there's an aftermarket con-rod available for them. My own personal experience with a 2.5 tells me they're cantankerous little things that are sensitive to the stupidest changes. I helped my friend tune his Tmaxx on my Blue Thunder. We got it running pretty damn good. He takes it home, goes to run on his own fuel, and hey, it won't run at all! He didn't get it going again until he reset the carb and re-tuned. It's not like our fuels are wildly different, either. Both blends are 20%, his being some Top Fuel that came with the truck when he bought it, and it's not like it was terribly different outdoors. The 2.5 is just a sensitive little thing that isn't an ideal newbie engine, and the 3.3 has a chronically weak connecting rod on top of that.



    Many of us here have them and have very good reliability and get lots of life and lots of enjoyments from these engines........ I have a buggy with the SH .21 holds tune well and runs great I also have 2 Stadium Trucks with the little Pro .15 engines and they also hold a tune well and are plenty of motor for those trucks, yeah they dont do wheelies or go 60 MPH but fro a lot of people they dont have too in order to be fun.... I have a blast with mine and they all run great......
    You just backed up what I said about the Pro .15. They have no power whatsoever. Do kindly note where I never said they were unreliable. I just said they were weak kneed paperweights, which to someone not overreacting as if I punched their mother, would suggest that I though that, while reliable, they were too weak to be worth using.

    Hey, you're having good luck with your chinese engine. Enjoy it. I'm not going to sit here and tell you to throw it away and buy an OS when your SH still runs fine. I didn't replace my NT-16 until the crank snapped, and that was only because when I tore it down I found the sleeve was shot as well. Had the sleeve not been worn I would have thrown another crank in it.

    IΒ*good friend of mine has been into RC planes for 35+ years and swears he has a few of the cheaper Asian madeΒ*engines that well out perform some of his pricier engines, I know this isn't always the case but the average backyard basher doesn't need a $300 - $500 engine IMO to have fairlyΒ*trouble free fun with their vehicle.
    You're entirely right. The $110 I paid for my OS .18 CV-RX a couple years ago was the deal of a lifetime. That engine has only gone up 30 or 40 bucks since then. You don't need a 500 dollar Novarossi for backyard bashing, but there's no reason not to opt for an OS when they make an engine for every price bracket. If you can't afford the 18 CV-RX, they still offer the .15 CV-RX for about 80 bucks or so. It's every bit as reliable as it's bigger cousin and will certainly have more than enough power for a basher to have fun with.

    Thats the great thing about the Redcat RacingΒ*Vehicles........we can have a dang good time with for aΒ*moderate price tag, everything doesnt have to be high dollar ( so called better stuff ) inorder to be good enough to provide lots of enjoyment.

    I dont have a problem with someone spending whatever they feel they can or must onΒ*anything, but a really take offense to the statements some always seem to make about everythingΒ*but the (Top of the Line stuffΒ*)Β*being junk that aint worth having........ I have some of this so called junk and it works great for me and I know this is also true for a butt load of others on here...........!

    Heck, on this Redcat Racing thread most of us have the '' JUNK '' engines and we like-em just fine and have a lot of fun with them, I say go promote your pricey stuff somewhere else were there are other Redcat haters who want to bash our stuff.............!

    Do me a favor and quote, word for word, where I even mentioned Redcat. You'll find that no, I did not. I simply said that you get what you pay for.

    Wanna know the funny thing? I got into this hobby through a no-name chinese brand. Six years ago it was CEN Racing in the same position Redcat is in now. Yes, I did enjoy it, and I did get two gallons out of the engine that came in it. I still have the truck, believe it or not. It's propped up on my workbench on a lego stand awaiting restoration because I beat the living hell out of it over the six years I've driven it. But you don't see me getting all butthurt when someone says "don't cheap out". You don't see me making wild assumptions and firing back with a huge diatribe about how CEN is god's gift to RC. When I say "You get what you pay for" I'm pulling from my own first-hand experience. I could have bought a Savage .25 back in the day, but I opted to save a few bucks on the CEN instead. What did that savings get me? A truck with a transmitter that conked out within two quarts(I had others on hand though), an engine that conked out within two gallons, and a drivetrain that couldn't handle the replacement engine. I'm still using the receiver that came with it, though, and that seems to be the toughest piece of electronics I've ever owned.


    Trust me I'm not bashing Redcat in any way. I'm just saying, from my own personal experience, that it's best if someone new to nitro not go with a chinese car as their first one. The only reason I didn't toss mine on eBay and swear off nitro alltogether was that I was already a gearhead beforehand.
    My stash:
    1 rally modded NTC3, 1 HeliMax Axe CX Nano, 1 Hobbico NexSTAR.

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    RE: do you think i should give nitro a try?

    I agree with 1ofmyfuns it does sound like your bashing; someone new to nitro will have issues with tuning a nitro engine regardless of what brand it is.
    I always tell the truth. Even when I lie. Al Pacino (Scarface 1983)

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    RE: do you think i should give nitro a try?

    You say a lot about a lot, and some of what you sayis true in "your experience", but i bet you can find others with the same experience with the other engines out there also, Iknow that some of the pricier engines are better built........... but are they worth 3-4 times the price of some of the less expensive engines......? for many of us no.....

    And as for the Pro.15 being a good paper weight........you are intitled to that opinion........but that doesnt make ittrue...! and I'll guarantee you I have just as much enjoyment out of my Pro .15's as you do anything you have, they are plenty of motor for the1/10th trucks Ihave, I'm an old school Hot Rodder that has built many high horsepower engines in my life so I'm not a stranger to the love of lots of power, but anyone that has been down this road also knows that with the added power comes added cost and added mechanical failure compared to a more moderate setup....... that is the only point I'm making here about the little moderately powered Pro .15 engines they push my 1/10 trucks @ around 35+ MPH they break the tires loose for 30-40+ yards on dirt and grass, do great on small to mediumjumps and run almostfor ever on a tank of fuel, nothing wrong with that IMO.... I run them pretty hard and no breakage so far.......one is getting a little weak in compression but still does pretty good for how I use it.

    The point I was making about this being a Redcat racing thread and the " junk " RTRenginebashing.........isnt hard to figure out......!

    ALL REDCAT VEHICLES COME WITH CHEAPER CHINA MADE ENGINES AND MOSTALLOF US ARE HAVINGGOODSUCCESS WITH THEM SO, FOR SOMEONE TO COME ON THIS THREAD AND START DOGGING THE CHEAPER ENGINES IS DIRECTLY SPEAKINGTOTHOSE OF US WHO ARE ON THIS THREAD BECAUSE WE HAVE THESE CHEAPER" JUNK " RTR RC ENGINES.

    Why would someone be on herespeaking this opinion when it will be directly pointing to the engines and vehicles of the majority of the people who are comunicating here.

    If I wanted to putmore expensiveengines on all Ihave I could, but why........? when I'm having good luck and good reliableinexpensive performance &enjoyment out ofwhat I have?

    I know I should just be quite here but this kinda stuff just bugs the ever living crap out of me.....
    Welfare to the able bodied is like giving shelled nuts to a squirrel, he gets lazy & soon looses will to provide for himself!

  22. #22

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    RE: do you think i should give nitro a try?

    okay im going to give nitro a try. what car should i get, the tornado s30 or the shockwave? oh yeah and since im a newbie to nitro you guys will not mind about all the questions im going to ask?

  23. #23

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    RE: do you think i should give nitro a try?

    The major difference between the two is that the Shockwave is a single speed car with a smaller Vertex engine. With the Tornado you get a two speed tranny and a larger SH engine. There are a few minor things here and there like the front end linkage but I think those are the two key points.

    Personally I would go with the single speed Shockwave if I were you. It's the cheepest and the simplest of the two. Two speed transmision may end up being just one more thing to tweak here and there. If you ever decide you want more speed out of it you can always upgrade to the larger engine and even drop in the two speed tranny if you want. Redcat will replace or upgrade any engine for half price. I paid $48 to get a new SH.18 to replace my VX.16. The two speed tranny was $20 and the matchin clutch bell was $5.99. Of course you could just upgrade one or the other. You don't have to do engine and transmision... the bigger engine will work with the single speed tranny and the two speed will work with the smaller engine. Speed wise I want to say the Shockwave does about 30-35, never clocked it so I am not sure. Maybe someone else here has.

    I would recomend tigerhobby.com. I was very pleased with them when buying the Avalanche.

    http://www.tigerhobby.com/index.php?...&product_id=75


  24. #24

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    RE: do you think i should give nitro a try?

    okay. i will get the shockwave. i have a lot of questions to ask...hope nobody minds:
    1. what do i need to get started? i have fuel-idk how old.....i have a fuel bottle, glow plug igniter, and glow plug igniter charger.
    2. how often do i need to change the glow plug?
    3. how do i know when i have a good tune?
    4. how do i break it in?
    5. do i tune it before breaking it in or tune it after breaking it in?
    6. do i need to tune it every time i put more fuel in, or is the tune good for one day?
    7. how long do i need to wait before putting a new tank of fuel through-how long to wait until the engine cools?
    8. what does after run oil do and should i use it?
    9. how often should i clean the air filter?
    10. how can i tell i have a good idle?
    sorry about all the questions!!!! im just wanting to get the most out of my nitro and not end up like it did before....

  25. #25

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    RE: do you think i should give nitro a try?

    actually, after thinking about it a bit, im going to stick to electric.


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