johnbwest

Hello I am a newbie to this hobby and thus far my experience with Redcat has not been pleasant. After only the second tank during the break in period my impression of Redcat got worse. The engine would not start for the third tank was told by shop the engine was blown but do not know what internal damage was done. I am having to replace the engine on a Redcat Caldera 3.0 and looking for options. It currently has the SH#18 engine with side exhaust connected to a two speed transmission. Is there an OS or other manufacturer's model that can replace the SH with minimal modifications ? I would hope to retain engine mount,engine flywheel,clutch show w/spring,clutch bell, spur gear etc. Since I am abeginner at this hobby and any advice/information would be appreciated. For sure will have local hobby shop perform the break in procedure on the new engine.

nitrosportsandrunner

Hi,
can you tell us how the 1st and 2nd tank went? The SH motors are good (many hobby shops will bash redcats, dont ask me why, Ill never know.) and some serious user error would have to occur to blow it so quickly. There are many simple issues which could cause the motor not to start.
A broken motor wont even turn over (usually) or it may not try to fire.

how is it acting currently? And what things have you tried to get it running again? Did the hobby shop offer any things to try?
Give us more info and we'll try to help you out.

Dads like rc too

I'm with Nitrosports on this one. New engines don't just blow, anything is possible though. It wouldn't be the first time someone has said their new engine had some casting debri or other defect in it. This can happen with any manufacturer. If you do enough research, I'm sure you'll find that OS makes what's considered the most powerful small block that's plug and play. But like Nitrosports said, the SH is a great engine, I would use that engine as a replacement for most other manufacturers engines. It's not the O.S., but the O.S. costs about $180 also. Post a little more info about what happened. Did you adjust the needles while breaking in? What kind of fuel were you using? Most of all, what was the outside temp when you were running your break in tanks. If you do need another engine, I would email Redcat and get a ticket started. They might have you send it in for inspection. Even if they determine it's not defective, their engine replacement program will be much cheaper than buying a O.S. engine.

johnbwest

Hello I thank you for the quick response concerning my engine woes. First attempt at break in resulted in breaking the pull start on the initial first tank and subsequently changed to electric start to use my cordless drill. I have been very confused when it comes to the proper break in procedures. Information that arrived with the Caldera 3.0 and the U Tube tutorials viewed seem to contradict each other. When the engine is replaced I will be inclined to have a local hobby shop break it in. On the first tank of fuel (20%) the engine was started with the factory setting on the carburetor and allowed to idle for the entire tank. The idle was very erratic and engine would surge often. The engine was allowed to cool for approx half an hour and then refueled with the carb setting leaned 1/2 turn. This second tank was allowed to idle for 3/4 of the fuel and still had the same very erratic idle. The last quarter of tank the truck was run around the yard but never above half throttle. When the engine stalled assumed the fuel was not being picked up since the tank was almost empty. Break in was to resume the next day since it was getting dark. Couple drops of after run oil were dropped into the carburetor and engine turned over a few times. The next morning the carb was leaned another half turn (even tried adjusting carb back to original setting and checked glow plug) but there was no success in getting it to start and resorted to taking it to a local shop. You are correct in stating Redcat is not a popular name among the two hobby shops in this area and with much pleading they agreed to look it over. After several days I was informed the engine was blown. I have no knowledge as to what the actual internal damage may be. Their only suggestion was to replace the engine or scrap truck and purchase a Traxxas from them. I have not picked the truck up yet but can say it does turn over freely. While turning it over on occaision it may have sounded like it might fire.

Dads like rc too

Well you are not wrong to say that there is not a ton of info provided with Redcat models. This to me is the weak point. Unfortunately at this price point, Redcat attracts a lot of newcomers to the hobby that really do need a little more instruction.

It's sad that hobby shops still try to turn Redcat repairs away. Unfortunately this is all too common. They tell Redcat owners their equipment is no good and was a waste of money. Nobody on the forum will try to compare a $190 nitro Caldera to a $560 Traxxas Revo, but a $340 Traxxas nitro Rustler is not a huge step ahead "if any". Remember that Redcat takes away from hobby shops entry level equipment. Traxxas and Hpi just can't compete in the entry level price range of the Redcat vehicles, while their quality is only marginally better.

So on to your problem. Are you new to the hobby? Most likely the pull start broke because the engine we flooded when attempting to start it. These .18 engines prime almost instantly, it doesn't take much to flood them. Now also adding the spin start back plate can also add some problems. If your using a drill motor to start the engine you can wipe the engine out very quickly because a drill motor will attempt to turn the motor over even when flooded and locked up.

As far as the needles are concerned, you should not have had to lean in a whole turn on break in. Sometimes you might need to turn in a 1/4 of a turn to keep it idling, but a whole turn sounds a little drastic. Still though, from what you described the engine sounds like it will probably still run. The after run oil certainly added to the hard start problem the next day. Unless its going to sit around awhile, you probably don't need it, most of the fuels today are designed to not need it. I would turn your needles out again, check your carb gap. Make sure your igniter is charged good and check your plug. If all that's good I bet a few drops of fuel down the carb will fire it right up.

ou2mame

when i'm breaking in an engine, i get it started and adjust the low end to where its not spitting out fuel, but is still pretty rich. the second tank, the same thing, just giving it a slight amount of throttle, rolling in circles. third tank, a little heavier on the throttle, fourth a little more, and fifth high speed passes. i don't change the needle settings at all until about ten tanks as long as its running, and then i lean off slightly depending on how its running. its common for glow plugs to burn out during break in, or afterwards. if they don't know the damage, you should get the truck and examine it and tell us what's up before replacing the motor. you would have to do some serious damage to the engine to break it internally, unless there is a defect... but good luck getting redcat to provide any warranty support for you. worst case scenario, buy another sh.

nitrosportsandrunner

OMG, did the hobby shop not give you ANY things to try?
1st thing I would do is put in a new glow plug. Glow plugs burn out....it usually takes a good deal of use, but the breakin process is hard on glow plugs.
Also, you had done everything right thus far. Your 1st 2 tanks were done as they should be.
Only step you missed (I too learned this the hard way) is to pre-heat the motor with a hair dryer. A fresh motor can be soo tight that pull cords will snap. I did the same dang thing on my backdraft 3.5! I replaced with a new pull cord, as I never liked electric starts (more stuff to carry with you) and once I preheated the motor I didint have that issue again. Once a motor is broken in, its much easier to pull over.

Anyway, back to your motor.

there are 4 screws you can see inside the top of the head....near the glow plug. remove those. Now the cooling head/top of motor comes off. You will be able to see the pistion (looks cool right?)
Now run your drill. If that pistion moves up and down real fast and smooth then it aint broke!

You mentioned you leaned out the fuel on the last tank. as you lean out the high speed between each tank, it often becomes needed on the next tank to change the idle setting alittle. Id try reducing the size of the carb gap opening (since the high speed is leaned, less fuel...so it will need less air to start)
That in combo with a new glow plug may very well do it.

I think 1 reason hobby shops dont like redcats is the profit margin isnt high enough for them.

My LHS wont even mess with ANY nitro anymore. They wont tune or breakin a truck for you. They say there is little money in it, and that with nitros they can tune it 1 day, then the customer brings it back cause three days later (when its 20 degrees warmer outside) it wont run right. some just dont understand how picky these motors can be. but still, hobby shops should do ALL they can to help new ones to the hobby understand how they work and what they need to do to enjoy them.

You statement that it turns over freely and sometimes sounds like it might fire....I can say without seeing it that its not blown. Those guys just want you to buy a model from them. thats piss poor customer service. If they can tell you it is blown...they should be able to tell you the exact part which is broken!
And to go a step further so as to tell you you should scrap the truck...holy crap.

Pick up your truck from them and try the things I mentioned. Dont give up....the breakin is the tough part! Once a motor is broken in its generally easy to keep running.

Oh, and when you get it running again....take it to the parking lot of that hobby shop, run it around for a bit, take it inside and say "damn this blown motor sure is powerful". You may want to add something about "you guys dont know what the hell you are talking about" and then walk out...LOL

JohnP2

Worst case scenario is that there is an internal issue with your engine (broken con rod or something) and you can replace that particular part. I cannot think of anything else. That is WORST case scenario.

In the end, I imagine the engine is just flooded or something.

Foxy

Since nitrosportsandrunner posted a thread in general discussion expressing his disgust at your treatment by the lhs (and rightly so), I expect this thread is about to get a lot of attention.

Suffice it to say the lhs are the worst kind of snobs. If I were you I would go back there and tell them that you've been discussing the situation online and have discovered that redcats are decent for the money and traxxas is nothing more than overpriced packaging (harsh, but basically true). I digress...

I doubt your engine has any major issue if you can turn it and it seems as though it wants to fire, you just need a little experienced help in person. Your LHS is a joke, don't go back there again.

Which one was it? They need naming and shaming if u ask me.

johnbwest

I wanted to say "Thank you" to all that have responded to my receent inquiry. To hear from so many Redcat supporters has made me feel a little better about my choice of purchase. It is true that price was definetly a factor when wanting to break into this hobby especially after watching many videos on UTube. With some luck and patience will hope soon that I will be playing before too long. I received a lot of good advice which will be put to use thisweekend after picking the Caldera up from the hobby shop.Iam thankful for finding this website/forum for questions sure to arise in thefuture.If anyone ever finds there car/truck in need of service while in the Asheville, NC area please write and I will tell where not to go haha. Even though they have agreed to break in a new engine should one be purchased will have to think hard about that option. After looking at schmatics and seeing so few parts in these engines I am comforted to know there really is little to fail. Redcat has responded to a warranty claim to say the engine is not covered but would check the engine over for any defects. Makes me wonder what good any warranty would be if the most important part of vehicle is not covered. Thanks again for everything and will be sure to write with any questions.

John
Candler, NC

nitrosportsandrunner

On the one hand I understand what you mean.
But its the common practice for all RC companies to not accept a return or warrenty a nitro model (motor) once it has seen fuel. Tho there are few parts, it is possible threw user error to ruin them.
same goes for things like lawn mowers/weed wackers and such at the hardware store I work at.

Redcat's warrenty only covers parts defective right out of the box, or electronic parts which fail within a certain amount of time.
It is actually cool that they offered, if you sent it in, to take it apart and check for defects/problem. Other companies would do the same im sure, but you might have to pay for labor!

Dads like rc too

this is what I was hoping for. Like Nitrosports said, it's not just a Redcat thing. All the companies explain their warranty like this. At least they're willing to take a look at it for you.

JohnP2

John,

A few quick things for you. I am one year into "the hobby" myself, and can empathize with how taxing it can be to get up and running with nitro rc. However, please know once you pass the learning curve....it is OH so worth it. ;-)

Below is a video of how to "clean" your engine from my channel.In your caseit will show you how to take it apart and inspect for problems. I am not mechanically inclined (I sit a desk all day and design computer software)and I assure it's not rocket science. This entire hobby is built around "do-it-yourself" so there is a plethora of support for you.

I'm reaching out simply to state: DONOTPAY anyone to do anything for your cars. Unless you have zero interest in "tinkering", you are better off learning how to troubleshoot. What you are going through is extremely common. I DIDblow up my engine the first time I started one (look at the picture to your left)....which in hindsight was the best thing to happen as it forced me to learn. Thus the very first thing I did in "the hobby" was replace a connecting rod before I even got my engine started. Don't be afraid to simply tear your car down figure out what's wrong. If a spare like me can do it - anyone can. ;-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clBhi9-1ge8

Dads like rc too

This is what it's all about. I think I still recall one of Johns original posts, it kind of went the same way most people talk about their first experience with a hobby grade rc. I also firmly believe that some new Redcat owners would probably never have decided to purchase a nitro rc if their only option was from one of the big name companies where the prices typically start at around $360. I think this is good and bad. The good part is Redcats price point helps newcomers enter the hobby that don't have buckets of cash laying around. The bad part is some of these people have no interest in learning how to maintain a nitro vehicle. If they're only option was to start with a $360 vehicle, they likely would have never bought it mainly due to the fact that they had no interest in learning how to repair it and keep it running. I guess what I'm trying to say is if you go out and buy a $150 nitro shockwave, you have no skin in the game. People take it home, it runs a few times, then they have to troubleshoot it and wind up throwing it in the closet. If they went out and bought a $560 Traxxas Revo and it broke, they would feel invested in it. They would feel like it must be repaired because I have all this money tied up in it. So in my opinion, this is most of the problem with Redcats reputation. It's not so much a problem with their equipment as it is the users. My very first hobby grade rc was the Tamiya frog back in 1982 or 83. You had to first purchase the kit which came with no electronics or battery for $180. I then purchased a Futaba attack am radio and servos for $120. The 7.2v nicad was $30. This was done with paper route money. I had no money left for a fancy wall charger. We charged off our parents car battery for 20 minutes with jumper leads. I've owned a few Redcat models and have also seen a few others from friends. You get a lot of car for the money, but it will take some patients until you figure this hobby out.

ehroof

os .18 cvrx is pretty much a direct placement, very good, reliable and powerful engine, can be had for around $150, i do have to say that the sh.18 is a good engine, good power and reliable. Its possible that the engine is blown if it was not setup correctly for break in, if it has compression then its good, are you able to hold the car up by the pull start and it will either stay in the air or slowly descend, if so then its fine, if it falls fairly quickly then most likely its shot.

Torch39

I moved recently to my surprise and delight my lhs carry redcat models and some parts. They still think they are not great but it nice because they will do repairs!! My tornado s30 is over two years old with over 3 gallon of gas on original motor. One good thing is how cheap the parts are. My front diff is going right now got a new one for 8 bucks .

johnbwest

Hello  Just an update to the situation for which so much support has been shown.  Picked up the Redcat from the hobby shop and one thing to their credit, there was no charge.  I asked what made them think or what indicated the motor was blown.  Was told it was because there was not enough compression for the motor to fire.  When asked what could have caused this was told perhaps the engine got too hot.  Not sure how this could have happened when idle run time was without the body and temps outside were mid 50's.  If this is the case should a new sleeve and piston correct this ?  If so, is it proper for me to ask in this forum for any suggestions who to shop with for these parts?  Inclined not to bother sending engine back to Redcat for defect checks since it did run for two tanks, figure I will only be out the shipping charges and be told it was user error.   Videos watched show this rebuild if necessary does not look very difficult.

Dads like rc too

That's too bad. If your sure the compression is weak, yes you can replace the piston and sleave. Some of the members on here are also dealers. I'm sure you will get a response from some of them about replacement parts. I will let you know that typically a piston and sleave for that engine is around $60. You might check eBay and find a complete engine assembly that is complete with the pull start, pipe, flywheel and clutch bell for around $90 from a new teardown.

Here's one that is just the engine without the flywheel or pipe for $70

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Redcat-Racin...item2c6c5c35ae

here's another one that is complete for $92

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Redcat-Volca...item2c6c5bda89

nitrosteve22

I could be completely wrong but I have such a hard time believing your motor is shot being so new.... I have tortured the poor little sh18 in my caldera. Ran it lean,rich,whatever... In winter(10-30's F),had my air filter come off and got snow down the carb all I had to do was knock it around and fire it back up,summer everything in between. Only problem I have is my one way slips a bit on the pull-start. But once primed she fires right up! LHS are usually full of... You know what. Return the carb to factory settings,change glow plugs and make darn sure your ignitor is charged (usually ends up being my prob,air/fuel/spark=go!). My Tornado and Cadera are the best nitro's I've ever had. My redcats have given me more fun than any other rc I've ever had,period! But as a mechanic I love to tinker on em. . Since I didn't pay a fortune for these redcats I sometimes go outta my way to beat up on them and ya this or that might break when you hit a fence post at 25+ . Had my tornado since 04' and caldera for almost two years,,engines with gallons on em! Listen to the people here,they'll fix ya up .

Foxy

OK, let's put what the LHS guy said to the test. Holding the engine in one hand and the flywheel in the other, turn the flywheel. When the piston reaches the top, do you feel resistance? A lot or a little? I've had engines run fine that had no pinch and no apparent compression. Low enough compression to prevent the engine firing would have to be very low indeed, like, there would have to be a hole in the top of the piston.

Furthermore, as others have said, these SH engines are bombproof. Have no fear in replacing it with another identical unit. If there is indeed something wrong with yours then it was most likely a manufacturing defect, no need to fear that the next one will suffer the same fate, it won't. That's why everyone here is so surprised that the LHS said it was dead.

JohnP2

Ditto. Based on the way you handle your first few tanks, I fail to see how you could have lost enough compression to where it won't even start.

JohnP2

johnbwest, this was an interesting thread. Do you have an update?

Thanks

johnbwest

Hello. I was very pleased to see the response to this thread and wish there was good news. I have not attempted a start in almost two weeks but have given up. Last tinkering did remove the carb in the chance there could have been trash causing a problem. However that part seemed to be clean and fuel flow does notappear to be an issue. Glow plug has been changed making no difference.Question about that, the SH18 comes with a medium and wondering if running a hot plug is possible or poses any harm ? On a another forum (AshevilleRC) have located a member who lives close and offered to assist.I have used every conceivable position with very little promise and someone to meet one on one will be an asset. As soon as we reach mutual available time will receive a second unbiased opinion of the engine state. I have been using a cordless drill since started purchased was defective. Is it possible the engine could be turning over too fast or even slow? If engine replacement is indeed warranted I have been researching vendors.To my surprise Sears website shows nitro engines. Checking EBay it seems the best prices are from vendors China. I have never purchased from overseas and wondering if others have any experiences to share. So anyway,
not much to report at this time. I am sure looking forward to some future playtime.

newby101

Hi I am relatively new to this hobby not my first buggy but haven't done this in a while. Just ordered a Red Cat Volcano EXP PRO (Brush-less)  Along with the purchase of this buggy I bought a Reedy-SL 540 (Brush-less) motor particularly because I don't know if the stock 540 can motor can take the power of a 2c Lipo battery 5000mah. My question is do I have to change the pinion gear on the motor or can I simply swap it from the stock motor?