Jas the Ace

Hehe...all ya need is a bit of rope mozz!!!
Tie one end of the rope around ya waist and the other end onto a skid on one of your choppers and fly yourself in!!
I don't think louis is playing pc games, I think he will be flying one of those crazy planes over your way mozz, lol.
300 000 people, big target for a malfunctioning aircraft, I don't know if I could spectate an event like that. No armco or concrete barriers to keep crashing craft on the track, but yes what an event it is, those guys would fall asleep on a rollercoaster ride. I have dificulty trying to drive my buggy properly, imagine what those pilots have to go through..

Hey bocajrs, hows the diff going mate? I am learning a bit out of this myself so keep posting and let us know how things are going.

mozzzy_2000

Yeah mate I've been watching snippets of the race from last year and yes they're only about 10m off the water and travelling upto 400Kph!! I agree that the danger factor is immense and I guess thats all part of the thrill of the event! Much like motor rcing although I reckon the danger factor is heaps more. I bet the public liability insurance over the event would be nothing short of staggering. I can hear the planes again today, diving bombing, sounding way cool hey. I'm going to go down to the river to check out the practise session today. Wish me luck! lol

Hey yeah it mercyful fate that had diff issues. Hope he has sorted them out!

Jas the Ace

ooops....my apoligies to mercyful fate and bocajrs for my mix up with the diff isuue, sorry guys. Thanks for correcting me there mozzz.

mozzzy_2000

Spent the afternoon watching the Red Bull Air Race dudes put in some hot laps in practise today. All I can say is WOW!!! I have never seen anything like it hey. Absolutely jaw dropping stuff. The skill is of these guys is just staggering to say the least. I am inspired! lol

Mercyful Fate

Hey guys still here! I started putting together The Diff and taking pictures of every step and would you belive it the camera battery went dead do figure. Mozzzy I will try what you said it just might be true. You really can't see what happens when the last part goes on. Thanks for the info. Will be in touch.

mozzzy_2000

Excellent! I look forward to examining those pics. BUT I am hoping that the during the process you'll suddenly work out what the 'bottle neck' is preventing the diff from working properly. Well here's hoping anyway!

grizz1

Hi Guys - Weather has turned ugly here again so it's car maintenence time again. Did manage to get a couple of hours running in on Saturday, but play ended early due to my steering servo dying. It was the original Spektrum servo that I put in the truggy from new, so I guess it's done ok ? I noticed the steering was a bit sluggish last week towards the end the end of my bash, but now the servo only works weakly in one direction.
I decided to give the trugg a good strip down and overhaul, as it has been getting a bit of a hiding of late. Ordered two new ACE servo's from A-Main Hobbies tonight. 15 kg for steering and 13 kg for throttle. Man I was tempted to order a whole lot of hop up parts (carbon fibre bits etc) but I was very restrained !!!
Both the original Spektrum servos were pretty under rated for use on the truggy, especially the steering, due to the truggs bigger wheels and tyres. My driving skill level has steadily improved to the point were these new more powerful servos will make a huge difference to the overall performance of the car. Much more positive steering and faster throttle response - sounds good to me
Mozz - How is that truggy of yours going mate ? Do you find it easier to drive hard than the buggy, and how would you compare performance between the two ?
It will be interested to hear your comments.
Jas - the buggy project my man !! How close are we now ? or did we get it up and running this weekend ?????

Jas the Ace

Pardon me for this basic question but, will any brand of clutch (3 shoe clutch) be the same as every other brand? With the exception of quality of course! For example, clutches that are sold for brands like Traxxis, Losi, hyper, Inferno or what ever, basically if they are using the same engine or flywheel size the clutches should all fit shouldn't they? It would just be the clutch bell that would look different or have a different tooth count, correct? I've just been floating around the net and seen a huge variation in prices depending on general brands etc. I might drop a line to our mate scotty, mozz, and get one of those hyper clutches for the new donk. And while I'm at it get some bits for the truck aswell.
My mate finally got his buggy, thought he was getting a Bazooka as well, but he opened the present and it was the rebadged bazooka, to many drinks at his party to remember what it was labelled as, when I recover fully I will let ya's know what it is exactly, but yahooo...another nitro addict to bash with, lol. All at the party quickly set it up to get it going but I had to step in at start up time to prevent anything bad happening, they fired it up and it idled really well, but as it throttled up to take off it stalled. I told my mate to put it away for the night and run it in properly and at least let it warm up a bit before trying to accelerate it. He quickly took my advise as he can't afford any major problems and knows that it is an expensive hobby if not done right. Congrats to him. I just have to get my A into G and show him who's boss.
Ok...time for me to shut up, brings tears to my eyes talking about these things and not being amongst the action with these things, lol.

Louis.....Please talk to us.....We all miss your thoughts....

Jas the Ace

Lol grrrizz....you posted as I was trying to type, hahahahaha, yeah well ummmm, I am getting there....well to be honest, no where this week!! Grrrrrrr.....mates buggy should be going well next week. lol.

mozzzy_2000

Hey Grizz yeah truggys seem to be far easier to drive hey. Really forgiving in that they just seem to drive straight over humps like they're not even there! Whereas with the buggy you need greater skill to negotiate the bumps 'n rutts. Very interesting and I can see how they have become very popular in just a matter of a coople of years. With those spectrum servos I am astonished that they've lasted this long hey! I havn't used them myself but from what others have told me, I got the impression that they're pretty useless for most buggy applications let alone a truggy! lol Yeah I personally think that 15Kg would be a bare minimum for steering on a truggy. You'll notice so much difference to the way the truck behaves. Because they're much stronger they obviously 'track' much better and hold their line better than weaker servos. Stands to reason really when you think about it. Those Ace servos should be really sweet I would hazzard to guess. They're re-branded airtronics/sanwa in case you wondering so they should be decent quality one would think.

Jas mate yes any standard 3 shoe clutch designed for a 1/8 single speed buggy will be sufficient, just like the original stock clutch on the redcat. Like you said there are many variations and brands but they are all designed from one simple design, the centax centrifugal clutch. Any brand should be fine I reckon, you just want to get stiff springs like 1.1mm or sometimes they're simply called "racing clutch". You could also go for one of the adjustable clutches like the werks power clutch or perhaps a 'sliding' clutch design such as the fioroni although these are far more expensive. Ideally if you want to keep your original engine on 'standby' just in case of emergencies, I'd advise you to perhaps get a brand new setup. That is new flywheel, CB, Shoes, springs, the whole lot basically. That way you always have the 2 engine ready to go at a moments notice if you needed to swap them over. However if the stock engine you are replacing has had its 'day' or you dont mind dismantling the clutch to swap over if you have to, all you really need is a set of new shoes and new springs. Thats it really.Thats going to be the easiest and cheapest option to get that sirio going. Just use the orginal C/bell & flywheel. But make sure of you are intending to use the CB that it has enough 'meat' on the teeth. If it looks well used, ditch it and get another. I would actually strongly suggest you do that and buy a hardened steel C/bell anyway as this engine is far more powerful than any stock engine and from my experience standard CB just dont cut the mustard.

With ya mates buggy Jas is a "Himoto" brand? Thats what I have. I call it a redcat to make i easy for everyone concerned since they're exactly the same but there's no need to confuse the issue with all the different brands. My first suggestion for your mate is cease & desist in operating the buggy any further! I think you are going to have to walk through the runin process with your mate because he does risk ending the engine's life prematurely if you just let him ust rip it up without a proper runin. Also that way you'll teach him a crash course in how to operate the buggy properly & I think he'll be very appreciative if you do.

Any of you guys catch the red bull air race on TV over the weekend? Wow talk about an awesome advertisment for Perth! Just an absolute magic day in all respects.

Jas the Ace

Yeah I probably shouldn't have said it was a rebranded Bazooka/ Redcat/Himoto that my mate received. Although it is extremely similar with the price of the Bazooka and general setup, I haven't had a chance to have a look at properly yet and do any comparisons. From memory (which isn't much good) it has a name of MAXIVA or MAX... something, it also is using the Vertex .21 engine. I almost broke down in tears today when he said he tried to carry out some tuning to get it running and he turned the mid range screw!!! I asked him to put all the screws back to where he thinks they were originally set and we will go to the park on the weekend for a bit of a tutorial and introduction. He will thank me for it, I hope he will anyway. When I get full details I will keep ya's posted.
Cheers

mozzzy_2000

LOL yeah I knew he wouldn't be able to resist the urge to give it a thang! Well at least he's got a buddy to "nurse" him through the learning curve. I pretty much had to teach myself along the way although I befriended a local hobby store, who gave me excellent support even though I never bought my buggy from them. Having said that though I have vertually bought all my spares from there since. Anyway I hope your mate hasn;t thrown the tun way off! lol If he has it shouldn;t be that hard to get back to factory settings. As long as it is running on the slightly rich side of things he should be sweet. Let us know how it goes!

grizz1

The temptation to fiddle is huge !! Jas, If that mid screw is out of sync you way remember we found out how to set it on the Plaig forum (can I mention that name Jas). If you need to you can search out some pics that were posted there showing the correct setttings, or I can describe it on the thread.
Cheers and happy tuning

mozzzy_2000

To be honest I have never flaffed around with the MSN on any of my engines. I never really new what it did and most people say just leave it alone. Not really sure if its usually screwed all the way in or not but I did notice with my engines that have a MSN, it seems to always be flush with the outside collar. But yeah I dont think you should be too concerned with it unless the tune is thrown so far off that you cant get the engine started.

Jas the Ace

Yeah I do recall you actually posting quite a bit of great information on the msn a few pages back grizz so if I need the info I can refer back to that or just ask you guys to repost it if needed. And yeah the general rule of thumb is to have the head of the screw flush as you mentioned mozz. But I wont worry to much at the moment at least untill I can get my hands onto his buggy, who knows it may even fire up and not even have a tune issue, fingers crossed. And lol grizz, yeah you can mention any name you want buddy, I am fully over the thing that seperated me from plaig, I haven't been back there since but then I have had no need to anyway. Cheers.

grizz1

Good to see your not hanging on to the past Jas
If that MSN does need a tweak it will only be a small one. The spray bar that is on the other end of the MSN screw has 4 little holes drilled in it at 90 - 180 - 270 - 360 deg. As long as one of those holes is lined up directly with the end of the HSN assembly (so you can see the hole if you were to look down where the HSN assembly screws in) then you are on the money. At most it will be out by 45 deg. Having the adjustment screw flush with the carb body just keeps this spray bar hole close to the centre of the HSN assembly, which is it's correct position.
I am sure you guys will have loads of fun getting the new toy running sweet as a nut. After all, that's half the enjoyment of these little beauties.
If you run into any issues with parts for the Vertex, I have my original Vertex motor here (about 8 litres through it). including pull start etc. Only thing wrong with it is the pull start cord is broken, and is only about half the length it should be. Otherwise it runs strong as. I am unlikely to ever use it so if you ever need it we can work something out.
CU [8D]

mozzzy_2000

Hey Grizz you're gonna have to post some pics up on the "inners" of the MSN cause quite frankly I get lost everytime you explain it! lol its not you, its my brain being slow to comprehend but when I do it will "stick" I am sure. Actually when I look back at some of the tuning issues I have had with certian engines, I am wondering IF it was infact something that tuning the MSN correctly would have fixed! I'd like to get a handle on it at some stage.

Jas you might wanna suggest to ya buddy that if you dont like the pullstart I'd rip it of and wack on a rotostart. Failing that you might wanna use your new starter box during the runin process because its gonna be infinately easier to start and will speed up the runin process 10x fold! My first engine, the infinty .27 pullstart, was such a beatch to start that it took a total of 2 weeks to finish the runin! I kid you not! lol Had I had a starterbox to use, it would have taken an afternoon at most. No snapping of the cord half a dozen times and no grazed knuckles! Oh gawd the grazed knuckles! Makes me cringe to even think about it haha..

Hey fellas you're gonna be shocked to hear that I am seriously thinking about selling up about 75% of my nitro gear to help fund my venture into nitro helis! lol Yes thats right I am considering offloading my Inferno buggy a few engines to free up some cash. It will cost me inexcess of AUS$1500 to get one of the nitro birds into the sky and since I have got my new truggy, I really haven;t touched my buggy since. I know, shock/horror! lol Dont get me wrong I dont want to get rid of it ALL. Of course I love my truggy so thats a keeper but all these race engines lying around gathering dust and now the inferno gathering dust I think it would be a wise decision to cash some of it in so I can try something new. What do you think? Crazy or not? lol

Jas the Ace

Lol mozzzy, sounds like a lot of fun, don't forget to sell the house aswell so you can pay for all those broken bits on the chopper hehe. The threat of a flame out in mid air and not owning a money printing machine kind of scared me away from stepping up to the nitro heli's, lol. It will be a vey exciting venture if you do decide to go that way and I wish you all the best with it, just don't forget to pop in here now and then to help keep us on track.
Crazy or not, you asked. Well crazy would be the answer cos you have to be crazy to do anything R/C. For example, my Ex Mrs once picked up the R/C to change the channels on the T.V....I was watching the footy, and I said she would have to be crazy if she dared to touch anything on the controller. And guess what?...She DID!!! Point proven that you must be crazy to touch R/C stuff....hehe.

grizz1

Yeah Mozzy, go for it. You sure do tend to collect a lot of bits and pieces with this hobby, so I reckon once every couple of years or so you should take a look at the direction your hobby is going and do exactly what you are talking about. Have a sell up of anything you haven't used for a year or more, and then redirect that money into something you want now. I find you sort of build up to what you "really" want over time, a long term goal if you wish. In my case this equates to - a really nice full on 1/8 race truggy for off-road, and a really nice full on 1/10 car for on-road. Both camps covered and smiles all around, but as I am finding out you do accumulate a lot of things while on route to your dream machines []

Hey guy's I have a quite evening with nothing better to do, so I will rip my Vertex apart and take some photos and create a post that should ease Mozzy's mind
Back in an hour or so !!

grizz1

OK guys, here goes. The first picture shows the MSN removed from the carb body. As you can see it is more of a spray bar than a needle valve as such. You can see the 4 holes at 90 deg to each other. The tapered needle of the LSN fits inside this bar and is pulled out as you increase throttle until it clears the end of the bar completely, then you are running on the HSN.
Second picture shows the MSN and it's housing, note the four holes once more.
Third picture shows removal of the HSN from the carb body. When you look down the threaded hole that the HSN assembly screws out of, you should be looking directly into one of the holes on the MSN bar which runs directly under this threaded hole at 90 deg.
It is really hard to get enough light into the hole, but you might just be able to see one of the holes on the MSN spray bar as we are looking down the threaded HSN hole in picture 4. Notice how the hole in the spray bar is directly aligned with the HSN mounting hole (it appears in the bottom left of the hole in this picture - sorry it's not clearer).
I am guessing what happens if the holes are not aligned, is that under heavy fuel demand the fuel does not have a direct path to the LSN needle and this causes various problems.
I know on my engine when I looked down the HSN housing I could just see the edge of two holes, but directly in line with the housing was soild brass, and it wasn't really running great at moderate revs, especially when you accelerated hard from around 1/3 throttle. I aligned the holes and what a difference. Much smoother and much better performance all around.
I scribed a line on the MSN housing to denote when it is correctly lined up for future reference (picture 5).
Also having the MSN screw flush with the carb body sets the right distance in for the spray bar so the holes are in the correct place as regards the LSN fitting inside the spray bar.
Jeez guys, I hope that all made sense. I know it's only a small thing, but it made a huge difference to the performance.
I'm tired after all that, so off to bed now [X(]

Jas the Ace

Well done grizz!!!! Man where were you 2 years ago when I needed just that exact information accompanied with some great general pics to assist in the explaination? I had a general idea on what was written previously, but those pics just made it all so clear to me. I'll shout you a Bundy for that one mate.

Jas the Ace

Clutches? Alloy, teflon, carbon?
Bells.. HPI, Integy, ?
13, 14, 15 teeth (for all round use)
I dont want my impulse getting something bad, so what is a good brand or is the basic stuff just fine?

grizz1

If your just going to be bashing and having fun, then carbon shoes with 1.0 mm springs is fine. They will wear pretty good and are cheaper to replace. I am not up with the play on all the fancy clutch bells (hardened, vented etc), but again for bashing and even a little racing on the side your ordinary RTR style clutch bell would be fine. 13T is pretty common for most buggies giving good all round performance.
Sounds like we are getting close with the project buggy eh ??

mozzzy_2000

Hey Grizz thanks heaps for posting that! I am going to look into this more closely now and really see if I can get some extra performance out of my engines. Gee if you can get any sort of improvement out of your engines via properly tuning the MSN is gotta be a good thing.

With my heli ambition I'm not going to jump the gun, so to speak, and get rid of anything in a hasty manner. I think it would be prudent of me to just perhaps see how I go with flying these things before I get too carried away with selling up my car gear. bUt as you say I have collected quite a few r/c items and there's not much point hanging onto it if I am not using it. Free up the cash to invest in something different I think is definately the way to go. Having said that, if & when I do decide to sell some stuff I will in no doubt have a few top line engines up for grabs so would you guys like to have the option of first dibs on anything? Just let me know. I do have at least 1 or 2 engines that I could part with now so I just thought I'd put the idea out there with you guys first.

Ok Jas sounds like you are getting serious now & ready to get that little "green monster" going hey? Good to hear. Ok I personally think carbon or composite shoes is the way to go. With the springs 1.0mm springs are considered 'medium" springs and offer a nice & very linear throttle response. In most cases thats perfectly fine but for me after some experimentation I do believe that 1.1mm or 'hard' springs are infinately better when used with a high powered engine such as that sirio. I just find that with 1mm springs, the clutch seems to engage too early and you dont get that surge of power that gets delivered with a stiffer, later engaging clutch. Of course it makes the engine that much more 'snappy' and responsive that it can actually be quite a handfull if you are not used to driving a powerful engine. You'll be supprised how often you will be doing uncontrollable donuts due to the extreme power of the engine and it will take some getting use to. That alone is a hell of a good time I reckon! Hehe. If you do find it a real handful I suggest using 1.0mm springs until you get used to handling the engine/car better.

With ya clutch bell I'd suggest straight off to avoid any "integy" brand parts. They really are of very poor quality so I'd stear well clear of them. Make sure that whatever you get, its suitable for a 1/8th buggy because there is subtle differences with the size of c/bs and you dont want to buy a MT c/b by mistake. If you can get a K-Factory hardend or hardcoated clutch bell. For me these have been the rolls royce of C/Bs and they last a very very long time. They are slightly more expensive but its definately worth the investment. You shouldn't be paying more than around AUS$30 for a quality HD C/B. The other C/B that I'd suggest is the mugen MBX5R buggy C/B. These are also an extremely well made C/B and quite frankly they look rather cool in silver! lol. There are other brands that would also be satisfactory too but I wouldn;t be able to name brands. What size you say? I'd say a 13T if you are using 1.0mm springs and a 14T or 15T if you are using 1.1mm springs. The extra torque that you get from stiffer springs allows you to go up a size or 2 in C/B Teeth and you'll get better top speed and smoother take off. Actually if you are finding that a 13T CB/1.0mm spring setup far too responive and all you seem to be doing is spinning wheels widely, I would definately recommend going to either a 14T or 15T which will help to "tame" and contain the power somewhat.

I dont know what your views are on purchasing through Ebay or the Internet in general I can give you some links to a few good places where you can get all that from. Not sure what your Toyworld has, and to be quite frank, I honestly didn;t even know they sold anything nitro, but I would hazzard to guess that they're not going to stock any of the top brands like K-factory or Mugen. I may be wrong but I doubt it personally.

Sorry Grizz but contrary to what you said about a stock RTR clutch bell I'd actually have to strongly disagree with you on that one. A stock or RTR C/B will definately not be sufficient with the Sirio that Jas bought off me. I can guarantee it wont last more than a few tanks. Its absolutely imperitive Jas that whatever brand you get, it must be hardened or hard coated. Unfortunately standard steel CBs just wont handle the torque these engine produce and you'd be wasting your money if you bought one. Shoes or springs wont really matter that much but a HD C/B is an absolute must IMHO.

Anyway I hope I didn;t over explain that. As you know I have the tendency to just waffle on & on but once I start writing, it all starts pouring out so to speak.

grizz1

Good point Mozzy. I forgot that Jas got that grunty Sirio engine off you. I was thinking standard buggy engine. I have tinkered with shoes and springs, but as yet haven't ventured into the realm of clutch bells (although I'm sure it wont be long). I will remember when I upgrade my truggy motor to upgrade the clutch bell too. Especially important on the truggy I would imagine as they are pretty hard on clutches to start with.
Just spent the evening putting some additional chassis bracing on my truggy, front and rear. I have run a support arm from both the front and rear shock towers to the centre diff housing to spread the load of harsh landings a little more. Arms are fitted with ball joints to allow a little movement but take up any serious chassis flex. Several of the guys running the XUT Pro's have added similar bracing and say it helps a lot. I was a little concerned about any excess stress on the centre diff towers, but they say it is not a problem. The original main braces take most of the load, the add on's just make the chassis a little more rigid. You can buy fancy alloy aftermarket braces from the States, but they are WAY expensive, and I'm told they actually make the car too rigid, and you end up breaking mounts etc because there is no give whatsoever. OK if you are a sponsored racer and can replace things at very little cost, but no good to this boy on a micro nitro budget !!! Home grown, backyard garage technology here boys Slowly getting the truggy up to spec and hopefully competitive.