BackYardRacer

My neighbor has a tornado shockwave and we cant seem to get it running properly. after we went through brake in process it just never seemed to run right. we've tuned it from 3 turns out and down to 1 1/2. The high speed is fine and we keep trying to work with the low speed. The car takes off really slow and has bog but once the rpms get up it runs great in top end. Went the car is on a stand it has a quick throttle response and sounds good all through low end to top. When we put it on the ground, if we hit the gas 3/4 to full throttle it with bog then slowly gain up to high rpms. it doesnt do that on a stand, only on the ground. I know how to tune but it just doesnt seem to want to run right. its not getting to hot the temp is fine. Could it need a better clutch or something like that. just an idea since its much better on a stand then the ground. any suggestions??

ehroof

if its bogging on take off you have to lean it out more on the low end. also did you put a new plug in it after break in, use a hot plug like an os a3.

BackYardRacer

well i had the low needle even with collar and that didnt work. we went inside for a litte while and it cooled off so when we came back out we went ahead and put it 1/2 a turn in. just all at once when the car was off and was cool. it was kinda worse. mighta been to much of a turn at once. my freind who has the car doesnt have any extra glow plugs at the moment so i'll just sell him one of mine and we'll see how it goes. and whats the farthest you've gone in on the low speed? cause most of my cars low speeds stay about even with the collar to 3/4 turns in havent been any lower

ehroof

do 1/8 turns in at a time and run it for 30 seconds and see if it improves, then do it again if needed, sounds like it loading with fuel but if the plug is no good it will not burn the fuel off good either.

supersound99ss

i know i couldn't keep mine tuned worth a crap until after i went to a hotter plug....every time the engine was warmed up i could tune it but as soon as i shut it off and let it cool it would act up again and i had to retune.....changed to a friend's os a5 plug and noticed an immediate difference, but the a3 plug is the best for the single speed cars it seems

ehroof

the a3 is good for all .18 and smaller engines

BackYardRacer

well i put a new plug in. Ive had to buy them from my hobby store and the guy never ask what kind i want he just always hands me the same kind. it said McCoy MC-9. I geuss thats the type of plug it says it in the top right corner. If thats what it is then i bet thats the problem because this car runs like crap it runs the same no matter how i tune it. From the low even with the collar to a full turn in, not a bit of a change. Same old bog. One thing tho is that like i said its my freinds car. He lost most his interest so i kinda took over working with it. He let it sit like around 2 weeks with no after run oil!!! And it still runs it never shuts off like a rusted motor or anything like that. And thats not the reason it bogs it bogged like that before he let it sit so long. So i might hafta order some plugs off the internet. Im using the same plugs in my tsunami and it runs fine. Should i get new ones for that car too?

ehroof

yeah, run the a3, you will see its easier to tune. http://www.clermontmotorsports.com/s...A3-plug/Detail

rc_crazy21

I feel he is just pushing a sale, The plugs you are using will work just fine. I have used cheap plugs to expensive plugs and everything in between. You will notice slight difference between them. They will also change slightly if you use a hot or cold plug. Is this a shockwave correct and not a BB with a two speed trans. Because the two speeds will do this if the transmission is not set up correctly. It's like the trans is in 2nd gear the whole time.

BackYardRacer

so you think thats the problem? Cause if so i'll tell him to order one and if it works i might buy that car from him for like 80 bucks. cause the only time he used it was break in. never been crashed or anything. But acually a few minutes ago i was bored so i put a .18 motor from my exceed infinity in it and it ran great. only time ive seen that buggy in action.

ehroof

who's pushing a sale?

BackYardRacer

tornado xl shockwave single speed

ehroof

i would suggest a hot plug, i run the a3 in all my .18 and smaller engines, i run the a5 or #8 in my .21's and bigger. dont listen to this rc crazy21 about glow plugs, if he believes that plugs dont make a difference he really has no idea what he is talking about.

BackYardRacer

lol ok i'll hafta order some of those for my tsunami too. and this isnt on the subject but where can i get a low geared clutchbell for my tsunami? With alot of bottem end

ehroof

get the 13/18 clutch bell setup. i have it on mine, its from hpi, tower hobbies has them. you will need a needle bearing and a tension pin for it but its much lower geared. the stock one is something like 17/22

ehroof

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?FVSEARCH=a825

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXM766&P=7 or http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXD109&P=ML (i think your better off with the bearings)

i think its a 5/16 tension pin, you can get this from home depot or a hardware store, you will have to cut it down to a 1/4 inch or so, if you get it, let me know and i will explain it to you.

BackYardRacer

so if i got the clutch bell i would have to get the pins and bearings??i would get the bearings but im kinda clueless about the pins

ehroof

its just one pin, it comes like and inch or so long, you fit it over the screw and put it on, you see, the 13/18 clutch bell is a little longer than the original one so you have to extend the part the screw goes into by putting it on the screw before you put the screw on, its like an 1/8 or soo longer but if you dont it will be too tight and the clutch bell wont spin freely. you can get a tension pin from any hardware store

Chubbysdad

My Feedback: (1)

Rc, I dont think he is pushing a sale. Its not like you make a ton of money on a plug lol.. He is just telling him that is a better plug to run in that car. People are here to try and help.

rc_crazy21

Hey why don't you re-read it. . I said they make a slight difference as meaning between brands(hello), Then i also mention there is a slight difference between hot to med to cold plugs(for 25%+ fuels)! ? 8|]! Oh and by the way i was trying to help the guy out! I did mis read his post about the mc-9 plug, i thought he said mc-8 which is a med plugs and would work fine with his vehicle!!

rc_crazy21

Oh and by the way the plug you have now, will work too! It better for higher percentage fuels! Check over your carb and setting!

ehroof

so its my fault you misread his post? I am not 50 years old or close to it, your wrong again, i dont make a dime of anything clermont sells, your wrong again, I do post links to tower hobbies and other companies that i have dealt with many times, your wrong again. Your the one coming in here making trouble, not me, i gave him a suggestion and a link to what he should get and your the one who starts the trouble. My relationship with Clermontmotorsports in now way has anything to do with my suggestions on this forum. If you have any knowledge of this hobby whatsoever, how could you say an a3 hot plug will give you a slight difference over a #8 cold plug and only with 25%+ fuels? maybe you should do some research before you start telling people what to do.

Even Kemo would have to agree with me about the plugs

rclynx

What you thinking dude....................only in extreem conditions is a medium plug used in a small block engine for any % of fuel. If you don't know that a small block disapates heat much to fast to run medium plugs then you don't know much about this hobby. To get the HP on an engine why would someone put in a cooler plug when they raise the nitro % percentage, that would defeat the whole reason for putting it in the first place. Please don't spout information you have no knowledge of because it misleads the new people[>:]

rc_crazy21

General Glow Plug Information - Consolidated
By James McCarty, Brian Cooper, and Brian Gardner
OS Glow Plug Information

# 8 Hot Recommended for most current O.S. (and other) 2-stroke engines
Type F Mildly Hot Special long-reach plug recommended exclusively for O.S (and other) 4-stroke engines
Type RE Hot Special long-reach plug designed exclusively for O.S. Wankel rotary engine
A5 Cold Recommended for most current O.S. (and many other) 2-stroke engines particularly for 1/10th & 1/8th scale off-road car engines
A3 Hot Dependable O.S. quality
R5 Very Cold Recommended for high-nitro fuel and high r.p.m. engines, particularly 1/8th track racing car engines
ENYA Glow Plug Information

# 3 Hot All Enya engines such as TV & four cycle engines
# 4 Mildly hot All Enya engines, especially those used with 10%or greater nitromethane fuel
# 5 Medium All Enya engines, especially the .40CX, .45CX and high nitro methane fuel
# 6 Cold High compression engines and high niro methane fuel used in racing.
Fox Glow Plug Information

All 1. 5 Volt Plugs are Dry Cell or Ni-Cad All 2 Volt Plugs are Lead Acid Battery

Standard Short Hot 1.5 Volt, Standard Short Hot 2 Volt
Standard Long Hot 1.5 Volt, Standard Long Hot 2 Volt
Gold STD Long Plug Hot 1.5 Volt, RC Short Mildly Hot 2 Volt
Gold RC Long Hot 1.5 Volt, RC Long Mildly Hot 2 Volt
RC Short Mildly Hot 1.5 Volt
RC Long Mildly Hot 1.5 Volt
Miracle Plug Hot 1.5 Volt
Pro 8 Short Cold 1.5 Volt
Pro 8 Long Cold 1.5 Volt
McCoy Glow Plugs with OS Equivalent

MC-8 Medium Hot #8 (thanks for correction, mvbashers.org)
MC-9 Cold A5, R5 (thanks for correction, mvbashers.org)
MC-50 Hot IDLE BAR - LONG
MC-55 Medium Hot A3, #8
MC-59 Hot
STD ROSSI GLOW PLUGS BI-TURBO GLOW PLUGS (without idle bar) (conical w/o washer)

Rossi Glow Plugs (cold for pattern type work / high nitro fuels, hot for sport / low nitro flying)

R1 Extra hot 0.8 to 2cc RB4 Hot
R2 Hot from 2 to 3.5cc RB5 Medium
R3 Medium from 3.5 to 6cc RB6 Cold
R4 Cold from 6 to 10cc RB7 Extra cold
R5 X-cold for nitro fuel & R/C RB8 Super cold
R6 Cold nitro 10 to 13cc
R7 Cold for nitro 13 to 15cc
R8 Cold for nitro 15 to 30cc GLOW HEAD FOR R15
G1 Hot
R/C GLOW PLUGS

G2 Medium (with idle bar)
G3 Cold nitro 15 to 30%
RC Hot for 2.5 to 6cc
G4 X-cold nitro 30 to 50%
RC Cold for 6 to 15cc
G5 Cold nitro 50% or more
Glow Plug Usage Tips
Your glow plug temperature range is too cold when:

* The engine power is weak or has weakened from previous levels.
* The engine slows down considerably or stops after removing the glow plug battery, despite correct adjustment of the needle valve. For example (Enya), if a # 4 plug gives you these problems in your engine, switch to a # 3 plug instead.

Your glow plug temperature range is too hot when:

* The engine suffers from pre ignition and loss of power.
* The overall engine running is rough
* The glow plug filament is broken or collapses frequently.

These are several cures to these problems. We suggest using a fuel with less nitro methane content, using a larger size propeller or using a colder plug than the one currently in use. For example if an Enya # 3 plug gives you these problems in your engines, switch to a # 4 plug.

Model glow plug engines are extremely dependent upon the type and quality of the glow plug used. Enya glow plugs use a platinum alloy coil, which uses a thick diameter wire for long life. The thicker wire coil also eliminates the need for an "idle bar" as found on other brands of glow plugs; idle bars tend to reduce top speed slightly, to achieve a more stable idle speed. Enya's glow plug design insures both good top end speed and stable idle speed.

Enya glow plugs also have a thicker battery contact at the tip of the plug for greater heat dissipation and better electrical contact. Altech Marketing presently stocks glow plug battery cords specifically for Enya glow plugs, which are standard equipment with Enya four-cycle engines. Other glow plug cords usable with Enya glow plugs are available from several other manufacturers.
HOT GLOW PLUGS (for low nitro and FAI fuels)

Enya: # 3
Fox: Miracle, Standard, and R/C Long (2V)
Fireball: Hot (1.2-3.0V), and S-20 R/C Long
Fire Power: F 6 (warm), and F 7 (hot)
K&B: 1 L
McCoy: MC 55 R/C Long, MC 59, and MC 14 (very hot)
O.S. Engines: # 0, # 1, # 5
Rossi: R 1 (extra hot), and R 2
Sonic Tronics: Glowdevil # 300
Thunderbolt: R/C Long
MEDIUM GLOW PLUGS (for 10%-15% nitro fuels)

Enya: # 4 (medium hot), and # 5 (medium cold)
Fireball: Standard (1.2-2.0V)
Fire Power: F 5 (medium), and F 6 (warm)
Fox: R/C Long (1.2-1.5V), and Gold
Hanger 9: Sport Long
McCoy: MC 50, and MC 8
O.S. Engines: # A 3, # 8, # 9, # 7 (with idle bar)
Rossi: Medium, and R-3
Sonic Tronics: Glowdevil Standard
Tower Hobbies: Tower Power Performance plug, and Reg. (w/bar)
COLD GLOW PLUGS (for high nitro; 25% +)

Enya: #6 (cold)
Fireball: Cool (1.2-1.5V)
Fire Power: F 2 (extra cold), F 3 (cold), and F 4 (cool)
Fox: R/C (1.2V), and # 8
K&B: Long & Short high performance nitro plug
O.S. Engines: R-5
Rossi: R 4 (cold), and R 5 (extra cold)
FOUR-STROKE GLOW PLUGS (hot)

Fox: Miracle plug (often used in 2C's W/low nitro)
McCoy: MC 14 (very hot, often used in inverted 4C's)
O.S. Engines: Type F
Sonic Tronics: Glowdevil ST 301/302
IDLE BARS

Idle bar glow plugs came about because some engines were having trouble transitioning from idle to high speed. When the throttle was opened from idle, the incoming air and raw fuel would strike the glow plug's heated coil, cooling it to the point where it would no longer support the combustion process, so the engine would die. To help prevent this, the idle bar was added to the glow plug to serve as a physical shield, helping to keep the coil from cooling off too quickly.

A glow plug with an idle bar will not increase peak RPM (it may even reduce it in some cases), but it may improve the idle with some engines, since it simply helps to keep the plug hot enough to light the fuel. If your having transition problems, you might want to try using a glow plug with an idle bar. Some modelers use idle bar plugs in the winter only, since the glow plug tends to loose heat faster in the colder environment.

Naturally, all of this assumes that you have the low speed mixture adjusted correctly to begin with.
HOT PLUGS

So what is a 'hot' plug, and how does it differ from a 'cold' plug?

Naturally, a hot plug will heat up faster and stay hotter, but that's not the whole story. When discussing this aspect of glow plugs, another very important aspect must be considered, the amount methanol in the fuel. The more methanol we're using (i.e., less oil and less nitro), the hotter the plug we should use. Conversely, the more nitro and/or oil we use, the less methanol we're using, so we use a cool(er) plug. An extreme example would be when using a very high nitro content fuel in a very high RPM engine (a typical ducted fan engine, for example). Here we'd use a very cold plug. For most sport pilots using fuel with just 5-15% nitro, however, a hotter plug would probably do well.

Probably? Yes, trial and error is often the best (and sometimes 'only') way to determine the right glow plug for your application. Most 4C engines need either high nitro or hot plugs to run at their best, since they have combustion strokes only half as often as 2C engines.
RULES OF THUMB TO LIVE BY

* Use a hot plug with low nitro (less than 24%), and a cold plug with high nitro (more than 25%).
* If you remove the glow starter from you idling engine, and notice an immediate drop in RPM, you may need a hotter plug or more nitro.
* If your engine has a tendency to backfire a lot, you may be using a glow plug that's too hot, or you may need fuel with less nitro.
* Most hot plugs can take up to 2.0 volts starting power without burning up, while most cold plugs prefer 1.2 to 1.5 volts starting power.

Chubbysdad

My Feedback: (1)

I think that should about do it on the topic...