S.P.A.D. Aircraft - Coroplast design Discuss the growing area of S.P.A.D.S. (Simple Plastic Airplane Designs). Coroplast type aircraft, pizza box planes, etc..

Mini Coro-Zagi = SPAGI

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Old 10-18-2003, 02:09 AM
  #1
RysiuM
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Default Mini Coro-Zagi = SPAGI

It's coming !!!
Based on Dazi, Zagi and imagination I have created flying wing out of 2mm coroplast. It's kind of Zagi, but smaller; Dazi, but powered by ZAGI 400 pusher. This wing is very slim, so it will be faaaast. I'm going to have it ready for Sunday flying.

Some data:
Wingspan = 38 inch
Area = 380 sq in
Weight = 22 oz
Power = Zagi 400 pusher (timed for reverse), 5x5 CF prop, Pixie 200 ESC, 8 x 950 mAh NiMh
Radio = Hites 555, 2 x HS-81MG

Only if I have it balanced right it should be blast.

I will let you know.

Here some building pictures (sorry for the quality, but it's dark and the flash in my camera just doesn't work.

RysiuM
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Old 10-18-2003, 08:58 AM
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Default RE: Mini Coro-Zagi = SPAGI

Me likes

Electrics are becomming very popular, and I think e-spads are a great Idea. I have often thout of creating a SPA3D-E.

When you give the flight report, please report AUW.

Good work

WILLIAM
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Old 10-18-2003, 07:37 PM
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Default RE: Mini Coro-Zagi = SPAGI

It's ready for the first flight. I wonted to show you how clean the profile is, and gear placement before I fut the final trim tape.

Here are they:
1. overview laying on the table
2. Motor mounted with velcro stripes
3. Servos hidden in the wing profile - just horn and link is sticking out
4. Battery and receiver hidden under coro

More pictures to follow

RysiuM
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Old 10-18-2003, 07:40 PM
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Default RE: Mini Coro-Zagi = SPAGI

Here are three pictures of SPAGI - trimmed and ready to fly:

1. Profile
2. Top
3. Bottom

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Old 10-20-2003, 04:39 AM
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Default RE: Mini Coro-Zagi = SPAGI

Now that will rocket with a brushless motor!!!!!
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Old 10-20-2003, 07:41 AM
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Default RE: Mini Coro-Zagi = SPAGI

Slick looking plane

Let us know how it flies

William
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Old 10-20-2003, 10:22 AM
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Default RE: Mini Coro-Zagi = SPAGI

Quote:
Let us know how it flies
Here is the report.

First flight
My friend tossed it. Plane went straight to the ground. Not even powered yet.
Flight duration: 1/4 sec.
Damages: Not even a scratch.
Conclusion: Trim way off.
Correction: Added a couple clicks up.

Second flight
My friend tossed it. Plane starts gliding (sort of). Power applied. Plane went straight up and half second later straight down. Total uncontrollable.
Flight duration: 1 sec.
Damages: Broken prop.
Conclusion: Tail heavy.
Correction: Added 2 oz led on the nose.

Third flight
I tossed it without the prop (I had only one spare). Plane glides to the ground very nice. I was able to level it for easy slow descend. Now it'ts like supposed to be.
Flight duration: 3 sec.
Damages: None.
Conclusion: It's ready for the powered flight.
Correction: Prop was mounted.

Fourth flight
My friend tossed it. A half second later I applied full power and SPAGI started a nice steep climb. I leveled it on 50 ft and reduce throttle to half. Then I trimmed it for easy and level hands-off flying. Then I tried rolls. I don't know, how Zagi flies, but rolls on SPAGI are very funny. On low rates the full roll takes about 1 second; 3/4 second to get inverted and 1/4 second to finish the roll. Now for the speed test. I was a little disappointed. Level flight full throttle was only about 50 mph. I could use more power. Then I turned radio to my son (I built SPAGI for him) and then he was playing with SPAGI for next couple minutes. Dead stick gliding was slow and easy. To save the prop he landed SPAGI nose first. It was a pure joy. SPAGI is a keeper.
Flight duration: about 6 minutes.
Damages: None.
Conclusion: Nice and easy flier. Very easy to launch and fly.
The following corrections would be recommended:
1. Good brushless would be a nice power for SPAGI
2. Put a little bigger battery, so it will balance without the lead.

I should have some pictures soon.

RysiuM
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Old 10-24-2003, 02:31 PM
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Default RE: Mini Coro-Zagi = SPAGI

Quote:
Now that will rocket with a brushless motor!!!!!
We will see soon. This week I've changed the power system.
My son said, that it likes this plane, but it wasn't as fast as the one he had flown before. So let it be.

Now the power is:
Motor - Brushless MEGA 16/15/3
Prop - Graupner speed 13x13 (5.2in x 5.2in)
Speed - Castle Creations PHOENIX-35
Battery - 8 x 1800 mAh NiMh (no need for lead on the nose)

The wing gained 2 oz (original battery pack was 6oz plus 2 oz of lead, the new one is 10 oz), but has much more 'pup'. No need for new pictures, because the plane didn't change much (I was able to hide the speed controller).
Wait for flight report - I'm going out this Sunday.

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Old 10-27-2003, 01:02 AM
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Default Mini Coro-Zagi = SPEEEED!!!

Quote:
Now that will rocket with a brushless motor
My new setup rocks. We had today two flights. I clocked three low passes on the second flight. The result is:

1. First pass (level flight) = 20030 rpm, 92 mph
2. Second pass (level flight) = 19740 rpm, 84 mph
3. Third pass (level flight) = 19500 rpm, 73 mph

You can see how battery was discharging. Out of 1800 mAh we got 5 minutes of flight WOT.

Here is the video clip of the third pass:
[link=http://m.modelersinc.home.comcast.net/zagi/zagi-speed.wmv]
http://m.modelersinc.home.comcast.ne...zagi-speed.wmv[/link]
This plane rocks!

RysiuM
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Old 10-27-2003, 08:05 AM
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Default RE: Mini Coro-Zagi = SPEEEED!!!

That thing hauls butt[sm=lol.gif]
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Old 10-27-2003, 11:03 PM
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Default Coroplast = Speed, control, and durability

I was fortunate enough to fly this beast last weekend. I have flown a razor with a brushless on there, but this is faster and much more smoother. It track like its on rails![sm=thumbup.gif] Low pass for the camera? No problem. You bank it to dive and it seems to dive and level out on its own. And It's not because I'm experienced, because I'm not. Rolls? Staraight and axial. And when you get it into vertical, it has enough poop to do some rolls. Deadstick is easy. You fly low to the ground and then cut off the motor, flare, and plow it nose down into the ground. You pick it up, dust it off, and charge it for the next flight. And it rips up the sky in the air. Arguably the best plane I have ever flown.
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Old 10-28-2003, 01:06 AM
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Now all you need to do is build another and mount a .074 glow engine, 2 oz tank And re-balance. You should get 15 to 18 minute flights.
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Old 10-28-2003, 02:26 AM
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Default RE: Coroplast = Speed, control, and durability

Quote:
Now all you need to do is build another and mount a .074 glow engine, 2 oz tank And re-balance.
That's the whole problem. It's a pusher sweep wing. To balance it right (with 2oz pusher motor) it needs 10 oz battery on the nose. If you put Norvel 74 then:
1. You cut you fingers on launch - it's a pusher, and you grab it where the prop is spinning
2. You put 15 oz lead on the nose to have a right CG, and you will end up with the flying brick.

No thanks. I have many glow planes, but this one stays electric.

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Old 10-28-2003, 03:27 AM
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Default RE: Coroplast = Speed, control, and durability

Now thats cool, I only just got my MEGA 16/15/3 for my zagi.

Best thing about the spaggi, you dont have to worry about the zagi flap at high speeds
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Old 10-28-2003, 10:44 AM
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Put the .074 on the FRONT. 2 oz tank. You can lose the BIG battery for electric motor. Less weight. Launch as before.
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Old 10-28-2003, 11:50 AM
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Default RE: Coroplast = Speed, control, and durability

Quote:
Put the .074 on the FRONT
Then:
1. It won't be pusher any more = prop efficiency will be lower.
2. The wing needs to be redesigned to include front engine mount.
3. Every landing there will be broken prop at least if not broken engine mount (this wing lands always nose first).
4. Servos and receiver compartment must be sealed from exhaust
5. With the fuel tank and Norvel sticking out if won't be so slick and fast any more.[:'(]

We build this kind of planes for glow. But:
1. It's delta 30 in wingspan
2. Uses at least 25 engine
3. It flies over 100mph
4. It's called D-Dust in example:


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Old 10-28-2003, 03:13 PM
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Default RE: Coroplast = Speed, control, and durability

Any chance you'll publish a plan for your spagi?
thanks,
Alex
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Old 10-28-2003, 07:21 PM
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Default RE: Coroplast = Speed, control, and durability

Quote:
Any chance you'll publish a plan for your spagi?
You might be disappointed. I have built this plane in three evenings including painting, and putting the radio gear. It's the simplest SPAD I ever build. OK, maybe the same as PBF.

I cut the plane not to the plans, but to the size of coroplast sheet I had (2ft by 4 ft). Everything was by the rule Looks About Right.
When I get home, I will put together some drawings or measurements.

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Old 10-28-2003, 10:49 PM
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Default RE: Coroplast = Speed, control, and durability

Another thing about munting a Bushing motor such as a norvel .072 as a pusher is that it will war down the crankshaft will go toward the back of the motor, or be pushed in, and the motors are designed to have the crankshaft being pulled out, so in a pusher, the crankshaft will grind against the back of the crankcase
I think[sm=confused.gif]
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Old 10-28-2003, 11:04 PM
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Default RE: Coroplast = Speed, control, and durability

Quote:
Another thing about munting a Bushing motor such as a norvel .072 as a pusher is that it will war down the crankshaft will go toward the back of the motor, or be pushed in, and the motors are designed to have the crankshaft being pulled out, so in a pusher, the crankshaft will grind against the back of the crankcase
I think
All bushing engines have a thrust washer behind the prop adapter. Running them as a pusher will not wear the crank down. The thrust washer maybe, but, they are easily replacable, and lubed by the oil from the crankcase.
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Old 10-29-2003, 12:56 AM
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Now you made me use AutoCad. I hate this program, but I don't have anything better. So anyway here it is. The plan is very simple, based on 2ft by 4 ft 2mm coro. Flutes are running along 4 ft edge.
I don't know how it happened, but with one ruler you can draw the plans on the coroplast within a minutes. It's like PBF.

The white lines are cut lines
Red lines mark folds
Yellow are dimensions
blue is a center line
Green is the 2 by 4 coroplast

Spars are 1/4 in thick. The long ones are 1/16 in high at the tip and 3/4in at the root (there is 2 in between spars at the root to make a room for the battery.
The center spar is 1/2 in high.
Two ailerons (not shown) form 4mm coro 2 in wide.
Distance between ailerons at the center is about 6 in. After wing is glued, the center part is cut to make a space for the prop.
Wingtips folded up and glued to make a winglets.

After wing with ailerons is glued I painted it with $0.98 spray paint from WallMart, the I cut the openings for servos. Center section is cut and folded just to slide battery, receiver and speed controller.

After that top section is taped with some packing tape.

Motor is mounter using velcro (I sow that somewhere on the internet).

If I skipped some details, just ask.

RysiuM
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Old 10-29-2003, 11:50 AM
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Default RE: Coroplast = Speed, control, and durability

Quote:
All bushing engines have a thrust washer behind the prop adapter. Running them as a pusher will not wear the crank down. The thrust washer maybe
Actually both, crank case and washer. My norvel 061 running as a pusher got both surfaces shaved pretty bad making black oily mass under the prop. I would trust more ball bearings to act as a thrust bearing leaving all bushing engines in the standard pulling configuration.

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Old 10-29-2003, 05:25 PM
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Default RE: Coroplast = Speed, control, and durability

Quote:
ORIGINAL: RysiuM

. My norvel 061 running as a pusher got both surfaces shaved pretty bad making black oily mass under the prop. I would trust more ball bearings to act as a thrust bearing leaving all bushing engines in the standard pulling configuration.

RysiuM
Did you actually mike the parts to see how much wear there was, or was it visible? The black oily mess is probably oil from the engine, which is a good thing. The fact that its leaking out is a good indication that the thrust washer, and crankcase are getting lubrication.
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Old 10-29-2003, 07:15 PM
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Default RE: Coroplast = Speed, control, and durability

I
Quote:
ORIGINAL: ChrisSpad
Did you actually mike the parts to see how much wear there was, or was it visible?
It was ground bad - visible damages to the aluminum surface. The black mess was the kind, when your muffler get loose and the vibration is polishing aluminum parts.
Hopefully I didn't have it on my plane. I just did a bench test with pusher prop (I had one spare, so I tried to play with it). Engine ended up on the nose of my Wigla. I figured out, that in the pull configuration it doesn't matter that the prop washer is damaged.

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Old 10-30-2003, 04:00 PM
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Default RE: Coroplast = Speed, control, and durability

Thanks alot!
I think I'll build one next weekend to complement my debonair!
later,
al
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